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Uncertain future for Linux viewer?

Qie Niangao

By Qie Niangao,
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Qie Niangao

Qie Niangao

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Oz recently posted an item to the opensource-dev-request mail list about updates to tools used for building viewers. It contains a paragraph that may be of interest to those who develop or use Linux viewers:

Which brings me to Linux... we could use your help with getting it up to the new framework and getting it working again. Most of the packages have been rebuilt (though some may need additional work). We don't plan to delay the release of the Windows or Mac in order to wait for Linux. It's not easy to justify our spending a lot of our developers time on Linux, though I very much want to keep an actively maintained Linux viewer going. Linux use of the official viewer is a microscopic and shrinking percentage of Second Life usage. I could really use some help from the open source community to make sure that the Linux viewer remains current. If you care about having a Linux version available, please help make it so. Today was my last official work day until January 5th - it would be fantastic New Years if there were a bunch of contributions waiting for me then (I'll be keeping an occasional eye on email through the holidays, but probably not actually doing any merging and building).

That emphasis is Oz's, and that's encouraging, but the "microscopic and shrinking percentage of Second Life usage," not so much. (Admittedly, I've largely quit using Linux viewers this past year.)

Those who are active Linux developers (and willing to sign the Lab's contribution agreement) may want to consider contributing, "[i]f you care about having a Linux version available." If I read this correctly, there's relatively modest work involved in getting things working again under the new framework -- and if that doesn't happen, it seems unlikely there will be future viewers (Linden nor TPV) for Linux.

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Perrie Juran

Perrie Juran

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Oz recently posted
 to the opensource-dev-request mail list about updates to tools used for building viewers. It contains a paragraph that may be of interest to those who develop or use Linux viewers:

Which brings me to Linux... we could use your help with getting it up to the new framework and getting it working again. Most of the packages have been rebuilt (though some may need additional work). We don't plan to delay the release of the Windows or Mac in order to wait for Linux. It's not easy to justify our spending a lot of our developers time on Linux, though
I very much want to keep an actively maintained Linux viewer going.
Linux use of the official viewer is a microscopic and shrinking percentage of Second Life usage. I could really use some help from the open source community to make sure that the Linux viewer remains current. If you care about having a Linux version available, please help make it so. Today was my last official work day until January 5th - it would be fantastic New Years if there were a bunch of contributions waiting for me then (I'll be keeping an occasional eye on email through the holidays, but probably not actually doing any merging and building).

That emphasis is Oz's, and that's encouraging, but the "microscopic and shrinking percentage of Second Life usage," not so much. (Admittedly, I've largely quit using Linux viewers this past year.)

Those who are active Linux developers (and willing to sign the Lab's contribution agreement) may want to consider contributing, "
f you care about having a Linux version available." If I read this correctly, there's relatively modest work involved in getting things working again under the new framework -- and if that doesn't happen, it seems unlikely there will be future viewers (Linden nor TPV) for Linux.

Very curious. Because what is the percentage of Linux usage when you add in TPV's which he omits in his statement?

What's the ratio of Linux users who use TPV's verses the official Viewer compared to Mac or Windows users.  My guess would be a Linux user would be more prone to use a TPV.

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Jenni Darkwatch

Jenni Darkwatch

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Considering that there are no plans to create anything Linux for "SL2", that does not surprise me at all. The SL Dev blurb just reinforces what has been coming from the Lab in a while: Go Windows or use the for-pay SLGo viewer. Mac is a huge headache and Linux simply doesn't have the userbase, even if one counts TPVs. That's despite the (official) viewer actually running very stable on Linux.

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Qie Niangao

Qie Niangao

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Jenni Darkwatch wrote:

Considering that there are no plans to create anything Linux for "SL2", that does not surprise me at all. 

How do we know this?

For that matter, do we know if plans for SL2 include any desktop OSs at all? (Hiring beyond the mobile OS space, perhaps?)

[Yeah, Android has Linux roots. Sure, whatever.]

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Qie Niangao

Qie Niangao

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I think that's wishful thinking. If the Linden viewer ever actually stops working on Linux, it's just a matter of time before TPVs quit being able to support it, too. The first step in that path is for the Linden build tools to stop working under Linux, which is what's at stake at the moment.

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Theresa Tennyson

Theresa Tennyson

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Callum Meriman wrote:

This only affects the generic LL viewer, and I think most Linux users are smart enough to realise that TPVs are likely a better choice.

This is the equivalent of saying, "It doesn't matter that the farmer isn't planting any more wheat and rye, because most people buy their bread from the baker."

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Theresa Tennyson

Theresa Tennyson

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jonhnnyroleplay wrote:

Uncertain future for Linux viewer....hmm...let us take a close look @ current (3/8/15) situation. Let us assume SL drops their own Linux 32 bit viewer & let us speculate amongst ourselves maybe "new" SL that LL is working on will not support Linux distros at all. I am going to break it down like this Microsoft first :

1- Microsoft Windows 8/8.1 has turned out to be a total trainwreck 

2- Microsoft has admitted since dropping support for XP only approx. 23% of planet went with 8/8.1

3- Microsoft has cancelled release of Windows 9 & instead is quickly working on Windows 10 (according to MS anyone who bought/buys a pc pre-loaded with 8/8.1 gets free upgrade to Windows 10...whenever it is realeased!)

4- Windows 8/8.1 support will cease soon ala ME/Vista

5- Leaves Windows 7 users, Mac users (make up approx. 12% of global populace)....whenever Windows 10 (MS great white hope) is released

Linux:

1- Take a wild guess where most disgruntled former XP- disgruntled Windows users  went : Linux

2- DELL, IBM, HP all offering pcs off their sites pre-loaded with Ubuntu 14.04 ready to ship to your front door

3- BIG companies now supporting Linux: GOOGLE, AMAZON, Intel-Nvidia, AMD-Radeon, Netflix, IBM, DELL, STEAM and HP among others now

The big question is: will SL drop their own Linux viewer?  I can not speak for LL/SL, BUT if they do just add it to the pile of poor business decisions they have made in the past.  Will there still be 3rd party Linux viewers for the "new" Sl that is supposed to be coming? Who knows, but this is one Linux user that will NOT go back to Windows, even if it means walking away from SL. 

 

According to the chart referenced in the article you linked to, as of September 2014 Vista had more users than Linux - over 50% more to be precise.

Vista.

Not even I'm running Vista anymore.

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LlazarusLlong

LlazarusLlong

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

 

Not even
I'm
running Vista anymore.

My home network has workstations with every Microsoft OS since 98 - including Vista.

There was a Windows 95 laptop on it, but it got rusty.

It has just one Unix box, but that multi-boots with several different flavours, depending on which side of bed I got out.

No Apple equipment though; I have to draw the line somewhere.

[My wife has an iPad,  but I told her she couldn't connect to my wifi, so she just plays solitaire on it.]

[Except when she wants to check her email, when she goes out in the garden and uses the neighbour's hotspot.]

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Theresa Tennyson

Theresa Tennyson

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jonhnnyroleplay wrote:

Numbers are like opinions....everybody has them; especially Micro$oft. IF that were true why would IBM, DELL, and HP offer pcs with Ubuntu 14.04 pre-loaded to public??  This means ALL three of these BIG pc players are losing money by doing this?? I guess that means Google,  Amazon (bought advertisent space on Ubuntu 14.04 OS),etc are too??? This is why I rarely reference any of Microsoft's "charts and graphs."  I love to use the word "approximate" when I do. The numbers I used were a quote off an interview with FORMER Microsoft CEO: Mr. Balmer.  do I have to post a link for each and every number I spit out, so as to validate it..I can
:)
 I say to you think about of ALL the companies backing Linux now....Balmer's statements backed up what ALL these companies are doing supporting Linux, but if you wish you contact them ALL tell them they are sooo wrong in doing so..LOL....I used that article to show people Windows 9 is dead in water and I never once said I got percentages I used from that link. I do not know what post you are reading I never referenced that article as to numbers I used. Now, if you will excuse me, I only reply to "stuff" like this once. Have fun!! ~~~

 http://www.cnet.com/news/windows-8-1-continues-to-inch-along/

 

You can find figures showing much higher use of "Linux kernel browsers", however, that number includes Android.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

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Jenni Darkwatch

Jenni Darkwatch

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I'm too lazy to dig up the reference, but we already know that the "SL2" (whatever they'll name it eventually) viewer will be "initially closed source". Which is just another way of saying it'll stay closed source forever.

Another thing we know (again too lazy to look up the reference) is that "initially" the new viewer will be Windows-only. Again, that's IMO just another way of saying "f* you" to Linux and Mac users. I vaguely recall a mention about mobile devices, but I'm not sure I remember that one correctly.

Btw, there's no need to support Win8/8.1/Vista/whatever. A properly written application will run on anything from Vista to 10 (XP had some quirks eliminating it from that list).

The only viewer team I could see pulling off Linux support if LL pulls the plug on it is the Firestorm team. And before I use those guys viewer I'll rather quit using SL.

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Jenni Darkwatch

Jenni Darkwatch

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Before you spread more nonsesne: High Fidelity is _not_ the same as the new LL project often referred to as "SL2" (which won't be what it's called, we know that much). High Fidelity is Phillip Rosedale's new pet project and it's not news. There was even a vid last year about it.

Instead of posting a long list of links, here's one from a well-respected source that sums most of what is known about "SL2": http://orca.slsailing.co/2015/02/sl2.html

Please do some actual research before posting.

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