Looking to build a new PC specifically for SL.

[VincentDiveccio]

Hello there,

 

Recently my computer died and I am looking for a replacement PC capable of running SL smoothly. I have done some Google searching, but most of the threads and information I find seem to be at least a couple years old. I don't know how often Linden Labs updates their system requirements page, but I'm not the most knowledgable person when it comes to computer specs anyways.

 

A lot of warnings have been posted about AMD graphics cards, so I would like to stay far away from them if possible. My last system ran a AMD graphics card and I eventually had display driver problems that led to my graphics card dying altogether. I'm also trying to cater to SL with this system as much as possible. From my understanding, SL is an old program that is horribly optimized and may perform worse with more advanced components. I don't care about running any other games or programs, as long as it runs SL without too much stuttering that will be fine. I also don't really care for running everything on max settings, mid or low settings will do just fine.

 

With that being said my budget is between $200-$300, but I might be able to squeeze a little more in there if absolutely necessary. I'm looking to be as cheap as possible with this build though. If anyone can provide me with a list of a couple parts via amazon or some similar site that fits this budget, that would be great.

 

Thank you!

[Nalates Urriah]

There are no easy answers on what is best. But, we can give you some simple advice.

To learn about hardware in relation to Second Life see: http://blog.nalates.net/category/hardware/

The SL viewer is not old software... parts of it are. But many parts have been updated to state of the art. The combination of server and viewer has some lagacy issues that date it. But, those are being addressed.

The problem that makes Second Life a challenging computer task is the user created content. If we had the professionally optimized content of Grand Theft Auto, Obduction, and other games SL would way out perform them. The Lab and the software that makes up Second Life can't compensate for what users upload.

To get the best computer go for one with 4 FAST cores. Core speed improves performance more than numerous cores. In general the Intel i5 5th gen CPU is the all around best performer for the dollar.

Memory is another big contributor to performance. Get FAST memory and at least 16GB of RAM. 8GB will do, but, you will crash as the SL and Firestorm viewer eat memory. With 16GB or more you will crash way less.

Data storage is another performance consideration. Faster is better. Going with a RAM drive is the current the best solution for performance per dollar. The Solid State Drives that can match RAM Drive performance are still WAY WAY too expensive. Affordable SSD with great performance are 1 to 2 years away. See: Hardware: Data Storage – What is the Best Buy?

Graphics cards are another big performance factor. NVIDIA is the answer for Second Life. There are some that will argue for AMD. But, read the forum here and decide. 

Starting with NVIDIA's 1000 series cards there is a duel image processing feature for VR. So, if you are going there, VR there, the 1000 series is the choice. The new 1000's are priced lower than new 900 cards. But, you can get 900 series cards on eBay for quite a bit less than a 10xx. A 970 or 980 is great for SL as it is today. A 1000 is needed for the future. But, video cards are easy to update/replace... provided you are not buying a laptop...

The xx60 NVIDIA cards or better is what you need. the xx20, xx40, are usable but, you need more and the cost isn't that much more. Check prices on eBay before you buy anything anywhere.

[VincentDiveccio]

Thanks for the advice.

 

So SL mainly depends on the CPU and GPU? Does one make more of a difference than the other? I was running SL just fine without a graphics card before my computer died. Could I prioritize the CPU and motherboard and then invest in a solid GPU later down the road? If something can be added to improve performnce later, I would rather add it later than have it factor into the initial cost to get back on the grid.

 

When it comes to the CPU, is SL capable of utilizing 4 cores? Are there any features on CPU's that I should ignore if I only want to use it for SL? I don't want to pay for more than I need, and with all the technical jargon being thrown into these descriptions it's hard to know what will boost SL performance. I'm guessing the speed of the CPU is the GHZ number. Should I priortize faster CPU over more cores?

 

When it comes to RAM I plan to get at least 8GB and get a motherboard capable of holding more. Would 16GB or 32GB of RAM expandability be enough? I know nothing when it comes to the speed of the RAM. Is that what the DDR3 and DDR5 mean? What are the standard speeds when it comes to RAM?

 

As far as storage goes, is a RAM drive different than a HDD? I was under the impression you store the cache on the RAM sticks and the OS on a HDD or SSD. Are RAM sticks and RAM drives two separate things?

 

If I wanted to get a GPU later and prioritize the motherboard and CPU, which should I prioritize first? What holds the onboard  graphics? is it the motherboard or the CPU that does most of the work?

 

Sorry for all the questions. I just don't want to go overkill with this build if SL can't make use of any of the components features.

[Alwin Alcott]

---

VincentDiveccio wrote:

 

With that being said my budget is between $200-$300,

---

Nalates gave you a excellent asnwer, but .... that will not fit in what you mention as budget ...

EU prices ..

grahpics +/- 200/300 usd ( or more if you want top of the notch)

processor i5 +/- 150 / 200 usd

memory  80 / 120 usd  ( 16 gb)

motherboard

psu

case

fans

and so on...

 

[Zsigmond Alcott]

Just do what I do and throw 4-5k USD at Alienware every 4-5 years for a tower and ROCK ON!!!



[VincentDiveccio]

I don't have 4-5k to throw away like that and even if I did I wouldn't throw it at Alienware.

 

I got a pretty cheap deal on on an old gaming system. Will this run Firestorm? I'm thinking about upgrading the CPU shortly after I get it to an Nvidia.

 

Windows 10 Pro 32bit

Intel Core i7 870 @ 2.93 GHz

2 TB HDD

16 GB RAM

AMD Radeon HD 5700

[Alwin Alcott]

---

VincentDiveccio wrote:

 

 

Windows 10 Pro 32bit

Intel Core i7 870 @ 2.93 GHz

2 TB HDD

16 GB RAM

AMD Radeon HD 5700

---

the 16 GB is useless with 32bit windows, only 64 bit will use it as far i know

the i7 870 is hopelesly outdated... 2009

[VincentDiveccio]

I understand the CPU is outdated that's why I got the whole pc for cheap. That wasn't the question though. I asked if it's capable of running Firestorm and how much trouble will it have with SL? It still meets the recommended systems specs doesn't it?

[Chic Aeon]

Just wanted to chime in here to say, yes will be difficult to get something that will work reasonably within your budget AND

 

I strongly suspect that the computer requirements listing on the Second Life page do not take Firestorm into account. Firestorm folks will be the first to tell you that thier viewer is more complex and takes more computing power than some other viewers.  If you are willing to give up Firestorm, you will likely have better luck  with a 1.23 style viewer like Singularity (there are others too). I haven't ever been able to run Firestorm on a lesser computer than my main one. Have tried on two notebooks, both that cost more than you budget and neither would run SL with Firestorm. They would muddle through on a low setting on Singularity.

 

Just my experiences.  Good luck.

[Lillith Hapmouche]

It's mostly inworld content that is horribly "optimized", if at all, but well...

 

You state that you have limited knowledge of computer hardware, but you wish to exchange and upgrade single parts later on. So you wouldn't mind building a machine from scratch? However, with used second-hand components, since that limited budget only allows for such? 

Does your old machine still exist? Can some parts (hard drives...) be re-used? 

 

I'd suggest looking for an i5-2500, optionally the i5-2500K which can be easily overclocked for a little performance gain.
Mainboards with a Z-chipset allow overclocking, the other letters won't. 
RAM might do at 8 GB if costs really need to be cut down, but then make sure to have more free ram slots for a later upgrade.
Stock cooler or for more silent and efficient cooling a third party tower cooling solution, about $30.

As for graphics, there is a pretty wide choice, especially if you happily ignore the Green vs. Red prejudices...
For used Nvidia GPUs, look for: GTX 760 (lower end). 960, 770, 970 (middle) or good offers for a 980 (ti).  
Preferably 4GB VRAM than 2... the GTX 970 coming in at 3.5 GB full speed and 512 MB much more slowly connected RAM. Current generation: GTX 1050 Ti 4GB.
AMD: HD 7850, R7 270 (low end). HD 7950 / R7 280(x) / R9 380 (middle class). ... or perhaps even a current generation RX 470.

Put into a Midi-Desktop case with a front and an outlet fan for proper ventilation.

I'm uncertain about used power supplies. Consider a new one by Corsair, SeaSonic, EVGA, anything but some cheapskirt "1000s watts for 20bucks!!11!" crap that will likely blow up itself and your other hardware.
500w max from a quality brand for that suggested setup which seems to be ~ $ 80, looking at Newegg and Amazon. 

[LinuxGod4u]

UPDATED: 1/30/17.. I know this thread is not recent; however it is a commonly asked question. A pc to run SL smoothly on a budget does not mean buying an expensive Intel i5 (borderline overkill for solely SL use), or using a $400-$500 dollar graphics card, or even a huge hard drive when we are discussing a budget pc solely for SL use. I have recently tested the latest Phoenix Firestorm & Singularity (2017) viewers. On Linux & W/10 x64 I found the latest viewer offerings from Firestorm (2017) to be bloated, sluggish & a system RAM hog. On the other hand, I found the latest Singularity (2017) Linux & W/10 x64 viewers to be faster, lighter on pc resources & require less RAM. I have upgraded system RAM requirements based upon my testing of both viewers to a min of 10-12 GB for prolonged login sessions in SL; thus why in this "budget build it uses *12Gb RAM. In addition, since this combo is built solely for SL use & will be using Linux- Ubuntu 16.04 LTS x64 a 120 GB SSD is more than enough storage space. After adding all necessary programs, etc you'll only use a mere approx. 8 GB of SSD storage. Furthermore, as to avoid mesh rezzing issues/AMD - Linux driver problems the below "budget" build uses a Nvidia GTX 1050 DDR5 2GB This combo uses an used AMD Phenom II x3 720 triple core CPU with a L3 cache of 6MB & is currently sold by a 3rd party Amazon seller: haneehanee11 along with a high perf CPU fan/heatsink. The heatsink has two copper heatpipes & a copper base, so as to help keep the CPU cool during prolonged usage of SL. Please bear in mind I do have *one* pc on my home network running W/10 Home x64, so the above posted info is accurate. Total cost of this "budget" build soley for SL use excluding keyboard,mouse & monitor is currently approx. $382.49 Based upon my recent testing of both listed above viewers it is impossible to build a dependable desktop that will run SL adequately/smoothly for $300.00 or less. ALL components are off amazon.com & not Newegg. Newegg is a great place to shop, UNLESS you run into a DOA, defective item(s) or especially if you require a prompt refund. Although Newegg has an A+ BBB rating they also have over 1000 valid BBB complaints logged against them to date. I can tell you any & all issues I ever had with Amazon purchase(s) ALL were resolved within *48 hrs to my satisfaction. Let's dive into this "budget" build:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00DXHHCZS/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all&qid=1485815293&sr=1-6

https://www.amazon.com/MSI-CrossFireX-Motherboard-760GMA-P34-FX/dp/B00EASJ2JI/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1485821714&sr=1-1&keywords=msi+760gma-p34+fx

https://www.amazon.com/ZOTAC-GeForce-DisplayPort-128-bit-ZT-P10500A-10L/dp/B01M4MIU94/ref=sr_1_8?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1485817078&sr=1-8&keywords=gtx+750+ti

https://www.amazon.com/PNY-CS1311-120GB-Internal-Solid/dp/B019H3B3P6/ref=sr_1_2?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1485817236&sr=1-2&keywords=pny+ssd

https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-HyperX-FURY-1333MHz-DDR3/dp/B00J8E8YKC/ref=sr_1_3?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1485817296&sr=1-3&keywords=kingston+ddr3+1333+4gb

https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-HyperX-FURY-1333MHz-DDR3/dp/B00J8E8YWA/ref=sr_1_3?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1485817296&sr=1-3&keywords=kingston%2Bddr3%2B1333%2B4gb&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-MicroATX-Tower-Computer-FBM-01/dp/B005LIDU5S/ref=sr_1_9?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1485821850&sr=1-9&keywords=pc+case

https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-Warranty-Power-Supply-100-N1-0400-L1/dp/B00LV8TZAG/ref=sr_1_3?m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1485822165&sr=1-3&keywords=power+supply&refinements=p_36%3A1253504011%2Cp_6%3AATVPDKIKX0DER

https://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-Internal-Optical-GH24NSC0B/dp/B00MOUBYDQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1485818202&sr=1-1&keywords=internal+dvd+drive

https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Socket-Copper-Heatpipes-Connector/dp/B0044FHFJQ/ref=sr_1_29?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1485818296&sr=1-29&keywords=am3

Operating system: Linux-Ubuntu 16.04 LTS x64 *FREE*

Above suggested components I chose are based up CPU, GPU, & RAM monitoring software while recently logged into SL, so as to avoid any "weak" performance in this combo. I have a neighbor/SL resident even using an Intel LGA 1155 G1620 dual core Celeron CPU @ 2.7GHz running SL smoothly. When building a pc it is all about the combination of parts you use & not how much money you spend on a pc build.

2017 Singularity Linux x64 bento compatible viewer: Singularity 1 8 7 6915 x86 64.tar.xz

http://67.170.30.149/

2017 Singularity Windows viewers Build 6915

http://alpha.singularityviewer.org/alpha/

Latest Firestorm Linux viewers

http://www.firestormviewer.org/linux/

Latest Firestorm Windows viewers

http://www.firestormviewer.org/windows/

"I Love Simplicity"

 

 

 

[Qie Niangao]

I notice at least a couple of these items are (currently?) listed as "exclusively for Prime members" and as an Amazon stockholder I like the sound of that, but as a Canadian, "Prime" is something that, uh... deserves its popularity south of the border.

Otherwise it seems a quite nice configuration. I especially like that it omits a clunky HD, instead relying excluively on an SSD. In the "cloud" age, it's only a special-use desktop that needs a big local disk. Personally, along the same lines, I might omit the optical drive, but some folks still have occasional use for DVD and even CD media. (I was briefly surprised to discover that even my new car still has a CD player.)

And although I've never splurged on liquid cooling, I whole-heartedly endorse the other upgrade suggestion: a newer-generation graphics card. That may be the most effective measure for more quietly cooling that box, with a nice performance boost to boot.

[Lillith Hapmouche]

Quite likely that the OP has moved one after 3 weeks without reply, but well...

 

LinuxGod4u wrote:

I have yet to try Nvidia's GTX 1050 2GB DDR5 cards, but all benchmarks/reviews are great. 

I have certain doubts about the "all" part, because there are plenty stating that the non-Ti version isn't worth any purchase at all. Since you're open-minded about AMD, why not look at the RX 460 instead for your tests? With 4 GB, that is...

Plus, 120 GB SSDs are a bad buy considering that you pay almost twice as much per GB compared to 240+ GB ones. 

[Qie Niangao]

Agreed that this is an old thread, so the OP probably doesn't care any more, but the subject comes up regularly anyway.

I don't really know the 1050, specifically, beyond the benchmark sites, but I can say that most experienced Linux users will steer well clear of AMD graphics cards. (Commodity desktop CPUS are a totally different matter.) For Windows users, AMD and NVIDIA seem to leapfrog each other for the buggier OpenGL drivers, but at least historically, on Linux there's just no contest.

I still twitch when I come across the string of characters "fglrx".

As to the 120 GB SSDs being a bad buy, I'd have thought that depends if one has any use at all for the extra space -- but now I wonder: is that wrong? does the controller spread out writes evenly, thus reducing the wear if one has vastly more space than needed?

[Chic Aeon]

Just adding to this thread for later readers.

I suggest getting a bigger power supply than it appears you might need AND doing research on power supplies. I had a machine built from what used to be a good company on the web.  But alas that is no longer the case. I ended up with a power supply that was listed as being big enough to run my graphics card and motherboard, but it died after a few months taking the motherboard with it. The whole machine was (let's politically correctly say less than optimum) but the power supply issue cost me another $500 to fix. This was NOT a cheap machine. 

So if you are building or having one built make sure that what you are getting is what you need .  And while I seldom have parts die, it has been most often the power supply  (on a few machines). I do not overclock.

 

 

[Qie Niangao]

---

LinuxGod4u wrote:

Do you use a Linux distro?

---

Just to answer: I don't use Linux for SL anymore, but I've used Linux for an embarrassingly long time, both at home and at work. Regarding SL, I ran it on Gentoo for years with Radeon cards, suffering through many glitchy new drivers, until I got a shiny new card that simply would not run SL at all, despite weeks of intense debugging. I've never bought another ATI card since, and not long after switched to Ubuntu, having decided full-time Linux sysadmin for just one system wasn't such a fun hobby. Then, eventually, I got fed up with straddling 32- and 64-bit libraries, moved my SL to Win8.1 then Win10 and never looked back. Still running the latest Ubuntu, though, for fileserver and other utility tasks.

After LL dropped support, it would take more "Linux courage" than I've got, to use it for a viewer. It's a noble enough endeavor, but not for me.