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Marvelous Designer 2 Help!


Dro Swizzle
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My guess is it's there, but it's 1000 times too small, so it's hard to see.  SL uses meters as its units, whereas MD uses millimeters by default.  If your avatar model is 2 units tall, it's going to be just 2 millimeters tall in MD.   Change the scale to 1000x in MD's Import OBJ dialog, and you should be good to go.

As for the secondary pose that was mentioned, that's only needed if you wante to be able to morph from one pose to another.

 

That said, I hope you don't expect to be able to use clothing from MD direclty in SL.  As with most cloth simulators, the geometry that MD generates is not at all optimized for use in a realtime environment.  It's super high poly, and the tesselation is awkward at best.  It's just not meant for this sort of work.

If you want to use MD as a design tool, that's fine, but you should think of the results as concept art, not as game-ready assets.  You'll need to retopologize the models (or recreate them from scratch) in a proper 3D modeling program (Maya, Max, Blender, etc.) before you bring them nto SL.

 

Any time the promo video for any digital arts product says, "_______ is hard, but our program makes it easy," that should be an instant red flag.  It's hard for good reason.  There can never be any such thing as a single universally applicable solution.   There's far more at stake than just how something looks on screen in one program.

If you're a RL fashion designer who wants a relatively simple-to-use means by which to experiment and showcase your designs digitally, using the RL pattern-making skill set that you already have, then MD is great .  Thats precisely what cloth sim technology was first invented for.   However, if your goal is to create assets for use in realtime 3D environments, that's an entirely different skill set, and cloth simulation programs like MD are not terribly useful.  By the time you properly retopologize the models, you could have made twice as many from scratch.

Once again, as I find myself saying at leat 10 times a week lately on this forum, the only place to find a "make it easy button" is a Staples commercial.  In the real world, there's no such thing.  For everyone's sake, either learn to do it right, or just don't do it.

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That said, I hope you don't expect to be able to use clothing from MD direclty in SL.  As with most cloth simulators, the geometry that MD generates is not at all optimized for use in a realtime environment.  It's super high poly, and the tesselation is awkward at best.  It's just not meant for this sort of work.

 

I'm glad you added this, for once I forgot my *point things out - mentality* and forgot to drop a warning note about that : )

Once again, as I find myself saying at leat 10 times a week lately on this forum,
this seems to be a seasonal deasease or something, i seem to have caught it too >.>

the only place to find a "make it easy button" is a Staples commercial.  In the real world, there's no such thing.  For everyone's sake, either learn to do it right, or just don't do it.

*nods in silent agreement*

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  • 4 months later...

In looking for help with Marvelous Designer I keep running into the same lectures over and over and it's extremely frustrating.

Marvelous Designer is not as easy as it may seem and so on.

Now that I'm learning Blender AND Marvelous Designer I have to say for doing clothes and for one who is a novice at 3D modeling, MD is MUCH easier.  You acheive tangible results in a matter of minutes as opposed to trying to fashion a shirt/skirt or whatever out of nothing.  We must all be mindful that people try to do things in a manner that is easiest for them to learn and not everyone is able to pull a pattern for clothing out of thin air.  A program that allows them to do it with things that are familiar (clothing patterns and sewing) is going to be a lot easier for them to comprehend.

Trying to dissuade someone from using the program because you think your personal way is better, only serves to frustrate the people trying to learn.  Now..is it easy to get it from MD to SL? No, that part is a little harder and I would wager any newbie wouldn't mind that part, so long as they could see their clothing item in there, they'd go the last few steps to learn how to rig it and clean it up.  I would and am learning to do so.  Could I create clothing in Blender? Yes, but much much much slower.  In MD, it takes a matter of SECONDS to create a shirt. Literally.  I say learn as much as you can, it cannot hurt to know all ways to do it, but pick what's best for you, and those of you who are a little further along at this, try to be more helpful, with regards to pointing out where we can find instructions on what we're trying to do, rather than being berated.  You may not mean to come across that way but it certainly reads that way.

That being said, I'm having this same issue. Sometimes I can't find my OBJ and other times it loads in too large or too small. a GOOD tutorial showing the steps slowly would be great if someone would take the time to make one.

 

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Chosen Few wrote:

That said, I hope you don't expect to be able to use clothing from MD direclty in SL.  As with most cloth simulators, the geometry that MD generates is not at all optimized for use in a realtime environment.  It's super high poly, and the tesselation is awkward at best.

Just to add that size of the polygons can be controlled to make it much less super high poly.

Also of interest to note is that there are opportunities to be realised by making clothing that is appealing to SL residents and for some, that means using the quickest tool for the purpose.

Take this example:-

Creator A)  Uses Marvelous Designer, creates items that are high in detail, well textured and look good.  High poly, non optimised but regardless sell very very well.

Creator B) Spends weeks making an item, optimises it to the end of the earth, lower poly but appropriate.  Deliberately chooses lower poly and uses a normal map to fake higher detail.

Customer uses viewer without advanced lighting enabled, perceives the item from Creator B as lower detail, flat textures and doesn't buy anything else from them as a result.  They buy many things from Creator A, perceiving them as "high detail/quality".

If the object is to be commercially aware and generate an income, ask yourself who is the mug here?

If the object is to make highly optimised game ready content and not care about commercials then the answer is different.

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Cori Muir wrote:

Thank you for that post Sassy! I think sometimes we forget that if we don't help someone in a way they can understand then we risk discouraging them. Now any chance you could point out how to lower the polygons? Lol.

 


Sure.  you can do it per fabric piece of the pattern or select them all and do them all at once.  You control the size of the triangles that it creates by changing the particle distance.  http://gyazo.com/40c3f5fbab8e4e4da4e82fe4d8c29149

What you have to bear in mind is that this will also influence how well MD drapes and bends the cloth around the avatar.  I find that 20 to 30mm is a reasonable compromise to get a shape.  Much bigger than this and things get a bit pointed, less than this and you do get rapidly towards the super high poly.  I seem to recall that the MD defaut is 5mm.

As for generating topology that's difficult to edit, that remains true other than pushing and pulling for sizing but it could be argued that the very "pattern like" UV maps makes it very easy to texture.

Common sense rules really, being considerate with appropriate topology and making it as low poly as possible is still something to strive for.  So often we see ridiculously high detail jewellery that more often than not is rendered in a handful of pixels on screen.

My comments still remain true though about whether we are being remunarated here for generating our high optimised game ready content or whether that remuneration is in highly marketable attractive content that is in demand.  Not to say that both can't be achieved in unison but that different peoples priorities will always exist.

A little edit:

Just to show the workflow.  Here's an avatar exported from Blender with the Avastar plug in.

Importing to Marvelous Designer, normally the avatar is turned 90 degrees but can be rotated during import by swapping Z and X and choosing "metres" to immediately get the right scaling.

http://gyazo.com/e92b3754e8d0f1ba8479679cbf1ff9a4

Then the item re-wrapped to suit the avatar and the export dialog box of the object.  Again, choose metres for scale and you'll see it divides the scaling this time.  Leave the axes alone.

http://gyazo.com/ac69a31370cb5e7e2094cd56d71e59d9

Finally, import to Blender and you'll see that the object is already correctly oriented.

http://gyazo.com/bd3df1201ca638111c84684db0fc0770

Just to show the difference on particle distance, here's an item with particle distance 20

http://gyazo.com/0a41336f6257e9121c22df61f1a6d3d8

and the same item with particle distance 40

http://gyazo.com/36c814d109c9e622aa8243cca42877e4

I'm not advocating one versus the other, just illustrating the difference.  You can different particle distance per piece as I mentioned earlier.

Also, as i said earlier, if you're exporting an avatar from Blender as obj and then trying to import to MD, make sure you don't have it rigged to an armature.  I find that fails and doesn't give any error whatsoever, just appears to work but nothing visible.

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I have been toying around with MD this past month. Pretty cool program. But the triangulated geometry is freaky. Sassy is right. You can change the particle distance for a lower poly garment. . I did discover that zbrush has a plugin in geometry settings called qRemesher. It does an increidble job on converting the MD export to quads. It is not all the way true but it does a really phenominal job, I found that lower poly garments sort better in qRemesher

Below are before and after images front view and back view. Took less than 2 minutes to convert it. It is a fast tool. More than likely, the time to convert depends on your PC specs. It's Just not practicle to purchase just for one tool

 

 

qremesher_front_view.jpg

 

 

qremesher_rear_view.jpg

 

I made absolutely no changes to the vertecies on the one that was converted to quads using QR in zbrush

one of the best and fastest remesher

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3D Coat has a nice re-mesher too but i've only played with it briefly and it wanted to close all the holes first whereas it doesn't look like the zbrush remesh did that.  I don't know if that behaviour is just due to my use of it.

This is an interesting technique with Maya 

  There's a similar video on Youtube with a script that semi-automates this process.  I don't know Blender well enough to know if there's a feature to "transfer attributes" in the same way?

This looks like it could be a good add on to Blender though http://cgcookie.com/blender/docs/contour-retopology/

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  • 5 weeks later...

basicly what i dont get is if we can make a piece of cloth..skirt..dress.shirt...w/e from MD that wil work in sl..

and it for sure wuld make u import it in blender first were there i supose u gota do rigging,maping and all this stuf...

(not sure?)

and then make it as dae file and then import in sl....

but in general i havnt learn to make the mesh move with avatar yet...bsicly i know bitof this and tht but i have parts mising between so i need time to learn alll the steps...

anyway...:matte-motes-bashful:

 

OH BTW,im using the trial of MD3

i supose i cant import nothn in sl bec is trial and they dont alow it..

if i purchase it then make then i can work with md and blender for sl?

and if i make the cloth upon the sl avatar in MD can i import it in sl?

 

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djjenny Feila wrote:

basicly what i dont get is if we can make a piece of cloth..skirt..dress.shirt...w/e from MD that wil work in sl..

and it for sure wuld make u import it in blender first were there i supose u gota do rigging,maping and all this stuf...

(not sure?)

and then make it as dae file and then import in sl....

but in general i havnt learn to make the mesh move with avatar yet...bsicly i know bitof this and tht but i have parts mising between so i need time to learn alll the steps...

anyway...:matte-motes-bashful:

 

OH BTW,im using the trial of MD3

i supose i cant import nothn in sl bec is trial and they dont alow it..

if i purchase it then make then i can work with md and blender for sl?

and if i make the cloth upon the sl avatar in MD can i import it in sl?

 

There are several of us who could probably help but unfortunately, I am limited in only being able to understand English language so couldn't quite understand all of what you said.

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Sassy Romano wrote:


Chosen Few wrote:

That said, I hope you don't expect to be able to use clothing from MD direclty in SL.  As with most cloth simulators, the geometry that MD generates is not at all optimized for use in a realtime environment.  It's super high poly, and the tesselation is awkward at best.

Just to add that size of the polygons can be controlled to make it much less super high poly.

Also of interest to note is that there are opportunities to be realised by making clothing that is appealing to SL residents and for some, that means using the quickest tool for the purpose.

Take this example:-

Creator A)  Uses Marvelous Designer, creates items that are high in detail, well textured and look good.  High poly, non optimised but regardless sell very very well.

Creator B) Spends weeks making an item, optimises it to the end of the earth, lower poly but appropriate.  Deliberately chooses lower poly and uses a normal map to fake higher detail.

Customer uses viewer without advanced lighting enabled, perceives the item from Creator B as lower detail, flat textures and doesn't buy anything else from them as a result.  They buy many things from Creator A, perceiving them as "high detail/quality".

If the object is to be commercially aware and generate an income, ask yourself who is the mug here?

If the object is to make highly optimised game ready content and not care about commercials then the answer is different.

While this may be true I don't think it should be encouraged more then it is. Lets be honest a lot of lag is caused by lack of knowledge about polys, texture size, and script size. Not that I will claim to be completly innocent as a consumer in this area mind you.

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Madeline Blackbart wrote:

While this may be true I don't think it should be encouraged more then it is. Lets be honest a lot of lag is caused by lack of knowledge about polys, texture size, and script size. Not that I will claim to be completly innocent as a consumer in this area mind you.


I'm not suggesting it should be encouraged but it is indirectly by the uneducated consumer.  The vast majority of customers don't care about polygons, only "does it look good, can I afford it?"  SL provides a platform for everyone to be a creator/merchant and when their efforts are directly rewarded by their output, that's quite different from being rewarded by a game company for producing optimised content for their latest game.

Different commercial forces are at work is all.

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  • 2 months later...

I saw a video on this program with blender and avastar I was curious  if anyone posted anything about this.

Thanks all who posted on this.

Its was interesting to watch the Marvelous Designer in action but it cost 20 to 50 dollars a month or up to 3000 if you

get perputal liscense,


This video the heading is bit misleading because it never shows all the steps it shows making the clothes within

Marvelous designer.

http://youtu.be/p09rj6oOPi4

 

This tutorial is tiny bit more complete but you need avastar and blender and know how to use it.  I don't yet.

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  • 1 year later...
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