Horrible deformation of the shoulder

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I have just recently gotten into mesh work in Sl, as my first project I tried doing a simple set of armor.

http://puu.sh/gN7VM/016c0fb08f.jpg

So I had gotten it all rigged up in 3ds Max 2014 but in order to do so I had to deform the bones a bit to fit the mesh (I made the shoulder bones shorter afterwards but its still coming out with this issue.

http://puu.sh/gN7Yi/e8882ba8db.png

When Uploading I check Skin and joint and from the preview I could tell something was wrong and I ended up with this in viewer.

http://puu.sh/gN7JQ/4d089538f3.jpg

How did this happen and Does anyone know how to fix it? I can provide more pics / information if needed.

I shortened the arms and that fixed the length issue kind of but the shoulder problem is still prominent

http://puu.sh/gNdfR/9d17302285.jpg

[Medhue Simoni]

Ok, I feel like you missed a big step.

3ds Max can do a good job rigging a character automatically, with it's tools, but you still have to go in and adjust weights, especially in the shoulders and probably the crotch too.

I do a number of videos on weighting characters, but they are all for Blender.

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Oh, I weighted the bones,

      The rest of the rig is nearly perfect except for the shoulder bit. All the bones I needed are weighted to 1 while the others are in the .dae file with weight 0 like the Clavicle and the bones that don't start with M.

      Actually this would probably be a good time to ask if the bones labled something like R_Upper_Arm Should be weighted and would that be my problem.

[Medhue Simoni]

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TheMoreYouKnow wrote:

      Actually this would probably be a good time to ask if the bones labled something like R_Upper_Arm Should be weighted and would that be my problem.

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My guess is that you aren't selecting bone joint positions in the uploader. Also, I would make sure your SL shape is set to default, for the rig you rigged him to. So, if you use the female rig, then you need a default female shape, or your mesh won't look right.

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I did select bone joint position though. Using the base shape actually made it worse,

http://puu.sh/gNj8j/2bd12b7fb1.jpg

The bones I mentioned

http://puu.sh/gNjuq/f5117304e4.png

Should any of these be rigged / might be the reason it is messed up at the shoulders.

I used the female skelleton By the way.

[Chip Midnight]

Did you rig to the base bones or to the collision bones? I'm wondering if part of the problem may be from your shape settings. I'd also highly recommend adjusting the mesh to fit the bones rather than the other way around.

[TheMoreYouKnow]

If the collision bones are the R_Upper_Arm type bones then no I only used like MPelvis MtoeRight Etc.

With adjusting the mesh to the skeleton, How would I do that? The mesh came in that pose. Would I have to leave the mesh

in that pose then weight the model to the bones while the skeleton is T posed?

[Chip Midnight]

Yes, you want to rig to the T pose. What I'd suggest is taking your existing rig in Max and move in into a T pose that matches the default joint positions, then snapshot the mesh in that position and redo the rigging on a fresh skeleton.

[Medhue Simoni]

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TheMoreYouKnow wrote:

I did select bone joint position though. Using the base shape actually made it worse,

http://puu.sh/gNj8j/2bd12b7fb1.jpg

The bones I mentioned

http://puu.sh/gNjuq/f5117304e4.png

Should any of these be rigged / might be the reason it is messed up at the shoulders.

I used the female skelleton By the way.

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Are you sure you are using the proper shape. What rig did you use?

 

It's been a very long time since i've rigged in 3ds Max, especially for SL, so I can't really say much more.

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Now how would I go about doing this because, If I edit the mesh in anyway it will not rig up to the skeleton. Also how do I snapshot it after getting it into the Tpose.

[Chip Midnight]

Snapshot is in the tools menu. It will create a new editable mesh from the selected mesh with any current deformations baked in. Since you already have your mesh rigged then using the existing bones to deform the mesh to a T-pose that matches up to the default skeleton is going to be a lot faster and easier than editing it manually, even if the snapshot needs a bit of tweaking. Then you'll have a new mesh that you can rig to the default pose.

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Okay so after doing that I end up with this: http://puu.sh/gNZRU/715c881ac1.jpg

Now can I stretch the bones in the Skeleton to fit the mesh without it becoming gorilla mode / messed up shoulders when in viewer?

[Cathy Foil]

I think I may know your problem TheMoreYouKnow.

It is very possible that you didn't do anything wrong.

The problem is most likely in SL it is very common for the default animations to also rotate the mCollarLeft & mCollarRight bones instead of just rotating the mShouderLeft & mShoulderRight bones when the arms are hanging at the side of the avatar like most of us would think they would.

To test this in 3Ds Max try rotating the mCollarLeft & mCollarRight in the X axis a bit like 5 degrees.  Of course this means the mShoulderRight & mShoulderLeft bones will not need to be rotated in the X axis as much.  If you get the same deformations you see in SL then that is your problem.

There are several ways to fix this if that is the case.  One create your own animations or buy animations that don't rotate the mCollar bones.  Two while your mesh is in the same pose to reproduce the deformations you see in SL adjust the weights around the shoulder area till you find a good compromise.  I would try giving the area around the upper shoulder area of your mesh weighted more to the mChest bone so it doesn't deform so much.  Of course this means the shoulder won't bend as much giving it a more stiff look when it moves.  The third way I guess would be to do a bit of weight adjustment like I just mentioned and to move the mCollar bones out closer to the mShoulder bones and when you upload the mesh to SL check the option to upload the joint positions.  I don't use 3Ds Max I am a Maya user so I can't tell you exactly how to do this.

I hope that helps.
Cathy

[TheMoreYouKnow]

So would you say this is about as good as it gets? Cause if so, It isn't THAT bad. I will probably go back through and touch up some verts.

http://puu.sh/gO5T1/f1c42d6a96.jpg

http://puu.sh/gO5TG/21ea8bff61.jpg

http://puu.sh/gO9ij/d877c3b1d7.jpg

[Chip Midnight]

That looks a lot better. I think that part of your problem is that when you change joint positions and upload with Joint positions checked SL assumes you've changed proportions but not rotations. It still expects a T-pose, not an A-pose. I could be wrong about that but I find it's easier all around to just model and rig to SL's standard T-pose, even though it's not the ideal pose for rigging. This is an artifact of uploadable rigged mesh being tacked on to a system that wasn't originally designed for it.

[TheMoreYouKnow]

So I actually fixed the shoulder issue, by using the Tpose method that was recomended.

End result http://imgur.com/a/IiEOh

[Chip Midnight]

Looks great. Glad you were able to get it sorted.