Help with Mesh boots

[Susi Soothsayer]

I have to say that I am tired of Mesh clothing. I don't think I'll buy another single item, I have nothing but trouble with it. And the designers can't seem to fix anything. The clothes are one-size-fits-all in a world where customization is the selling point. Many of the mesh clothing is really ugly..it has no natural flow or drape. The geni pants? Ugh. The big shirts? Ugh. So, I want to say at the outset that I am tired of having to cope with this hot new graphic item that has all the designers excited. For me..they are a fail, fail fail. And why should you care about my opinion? Because I am a SHOPPER. I have spent probably $1000 on avatar products and happy to spend more. I love cute new clothes and skins and makeups. I am your target audience...so, you should want to make me happy so I'll buy lots more, right?

Here are the mesh boots that show skin - there is nothing I can do to edit the boots or the alpha, there is nothing I can do to change my avatar shape. The designer very kindly tried to explain things like "RenderVolumeLOD" blah blah blah...tried it. It failed. So would any mesh geniuses out there know how to fix this product? Please? And thank you for your time and attention to my little mesh-rant.

 

[Syo Emerald]

Not a smart shopper, I guess. I'm a shopper too, but when I buy mesh, I know what I have to look for.

First: I know what mesh makes better than normal prims and reduce my search to those items. Long dresses work fine with mesh, same goes for overkneeshoes and many long hairstyles.

Second: When I found a piece I love, I look for a demo version and try that first. If it fits I buy the original version. No unhappy suprises.

And you lie with saying that all textures are bad and there is only one size with mesh. There are many different ones. If you don't have an odd shape, one will fit (don't forget the alpha layer, looks like you don't use them). Mesh is hard to make, so don't blame the shop owners for not making mesh for every possible shape out there. I may upload a screenshot later to show you how great mesh can look if used right.

[Susi Soothsayer]

Oh for goodness sakes...why so protective of Mesh? And so willing to attack someone simply stating their own opinion? 

1. Shopper..I didn't claim to be smart ..I just claimed to spend money

2. Yes, wearing alpha.

3. No demo was available

4. Did not state all textures are bad.

5. Clearly mesh is complex and needs the bugs worked out of it.

Anyone else have a friendly suggestion?

 

[Masami Kuramoto]

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Susi Soothsayer wrote:

Here are the mesh boots that show skin - there is nothing I can do to edit the boots or the alpha, there is nothing I can do to change my avatar shape. The designer very kindly tried to explain things like "RenderVolumeLOD" blah blah blah...tried it. It failed. So would any mesh geniuses out there know how to fix this product? Please?

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You can't fix those boots. Obviously they are poorly rigged, and the designer's suggestion to change settings in the viewer is nonsense, because even if that did fix the problem on your screen, everyone else around you would still see the glitches.

The problem is that rigging is even harder than modeling, and many SL mesh designers already fail at the modeling stage. Poor topologies, excessive polygon counts and crappy vertex weighting are all over the place.

You have to consider that most SL mesh designers don't have a professional background. If they did, they wouldn't create content for Second Life, because that would be the equivalent of a PhD flipping burgers at McD. Professional CG artists find much better paid jobs elsewhere, e.g. in the game industry, in advertising, movie VFX etc.

However, that doesn't mean it was a bad idea to introduce mesh to Second Life. The feature has encouraged many prim builders to take the next step and become familiar with industry-level 3D modeling, and that is not a bad thing at all.

[Maeve Balfour]

Personally, I think a large portion of the mesh on the Marketplace is by creators who haven't yet skilled themselves up anywhere near enough to be able to churn out quality products. This isn't me slagging them off by any means - mesh is a very large and complex topic - however, I feel that a good many of these merchants have jumped onto the mesh bandwagon far too early, haven't learned enough about proper mesh rigging and SL optimisation, and are, quite frankly, turning out low quality items as a result.

Myself, I've been creating mesh on a hobbyist level for almost a decade, and still have a lot to learn. Mesh IS fun, and always has been for me - although I utilise it purely for my own creative usage and don't have much interest in raking in money as a merchant, either here in SL or out in the wider 3D brokerage market. One day, mayhaps, I might dip my toe into the SL Marketplace out of curiosity - although that is a pretty low priority for me (and would probably take the fun factor OUT of SL for me).

The rush to be "first" etc with mesh, especially clothing, has resulted in a plethora of crappy meshes, or just that endless samey look of retextured merchant mesh clothing kits (and many of those are purely a tint job I could do myself in about 30 seconds, bah). You only have to look at the semi-regular new threads appearing in this forum to get an idea of the low skill base many merchants who want to make mesh possess - the "I don't know anything about mesh, but I want to make mesh clothing right now and skip all the boring stuffz!" type. In other words, a lot of them don't want to actually BOTHER with learning about making mesh properly, they just want to jump straight to the money making part. Or at least, that's the vibe I tend to get when I peruse these forums - that, and the tantrums some throw when they learn they actually have a lot of learning to do first to do it properly, make many of us weary in answering anymore (myself, anyways).

And echoing what Masami said, many merchants don't have a clue about proper SL mesh optimisation and frankly, don't seem to give a damn about even learning - which when poorly made can have a big impact on lag and viewer render performance, which pretty much negates the benefits mesh can have. I have seen mesh footwear, for example, with so many polygons that their wireframes are almost opaque with their density, and take over a minute to rez (I acquired demos just to witness how crappy they were). I have made similar footwear myself (for my personal usage) with a tiny fraction of the polygons used (about 10% of the count, if that), which rez up faster than their textures do.

Bah, I'm ranting now LOL. :matte-motes-wink-tongue:

Honestly, there IS some good mesh clothing out there - you just have to sift through a lot of rubbish to find it. When you find something you like, always look for a demo to test out. I can pretty much guarantee that any mesh clothing maker who is any good at all, will ALWAYS have a demo for customers to try out for fit prior to making a buying decision.
If there's no demo offered - just don't buy.  Personally, if I can't find a demo, I suspect the product is low grade - with no demo on offer, the merchant is just burning themself. Their loss. In cases like that, save your L$. I'd rather support the GOOD creators than the crappy cash-in ones.

On a more positive note - hopefully, once the deformer project finally sees the green light from LL for general release, it will help alleviate much of the fitting issues. It won't be a magic fix, but at least it should give the option for tweaking meshes for a better fit. Keep in mind, though, that crappy rigged mesh clothing will always be that, crappy.

Just my thoughts on the state of mesh clothing, anyways.

[Theresa Tennyson]

In that picture, your avatar looks like it hasn't completely "baked" (hit it's maximum resolution level.) This happens when you're not getting the final textures from the server properly. When your avatar isnt' completely "baked" the alpha hasn't reached it's final shape either so it won't look right. This particular problem has  nothing to do with mesh and happens with sculpts too. Rebake your avatar (Crtl-Alt-R) and wait for it to look as clear and crisp as possible and see if you still have the same problem.

If it doesn't work you can see if you can find a different alpha that goes higher up your leg. Alphas for boots are very simple to make because it just involves erasing your leg below the top of the boot, and you can use an alpha from one item for a different item.

 

[Chic Aeon]

OK. I simply had to put my two cents worth in here.

Some very important points have already been made that I agree with. Along with never buy mesh if there is no demo (RULE NUMBER ONE), it is also a very good idea to buy from folks that know what they are doing.

 

There are some designers that make their own mesh and make it superbly. I have a friend who spends for-e-ver getting her designs just right; rigging them so that they work when you walk, sit etc. She comes over and I advise. There are also countless (and growing) newbie designers who buy a full perm template and add their own textures. Some are good at texturing and you can get some good items at low prices (or free with group gifts) from them. There are others who have NO CLUE what they are doing. This isn't just mesh, this is design in general.

LATER EDIT:  You will see lots of "similar" skirts, pants tops etc made from the same templates. So if if you find a crop top from Designer A that looks good on you it is LIKELY but not guranteed that it will fit. The same template mesh garment that fits around well might be rigged wrong and the shoulder straps could be way off where they should be on one while fitting perfectly on another. So, don't be fooled that this is "just like my blue top" because there still could be differences. Always try the demo.

 

We all had to learn (or have to in the case of mesh for me; I am just starting) how to upload a texture, link two prims etc. SL is not an easy world to thrive in. Designers put in lots of time getting their skill levels up. Presumably they love doing it. Some send their kids to college with the money they make. Many more break even or support their store because they enjoy the process.

 

The bottom line is that CONSUMERS need to pay attention. This isn't an SL thing, it goes for real life shopping too. When looking for mesh, find designers you like, who make clothes in standard sizing (most do these days) and who have demos. If you are a very odd shaped avatar, then mesh is out for you for the most part. Shoes and hair and accessories should work though. Watch the fashion blogs for designers you like. Hit the monthly high profile venues like COLLABOR88 and FAMEMESHED. They ALL have demos.   (Someone IM me please if we can't mention places in the Forums; I am usually in the Answers section).

Do your part of the shopping equation and you won't be complaining so much.

[Susi Soothsayer]

Thank you, Masami. That was really helpful. I keep forgetting what a new frontier SL is - in terms of design and continuously evolving. I started SL 7 years ago and stayed for about a year and then left until a year ago. What a different place it was then..our avatars then seem crude now. But we were still ripe for creating and pushing the boundaries in every field. That sense of adventure is still here.

 

So the geniuses of mesh are not lured by money, hmmm. Well, let them then be lured by the desire for perfection. And the desire to have fun in creation. You see, what I did not know is why the mesh would attach to a body part - like foot/leg in this instance - and yet be out of alignment with the avatar. If these were prim boots you would just edit them a teensy bit and then they'd be perfect. What I'm hearing is that it is the mesh object itself that is not quite right. If that's the case then wouldn't it be out of alignment on all avatars?

 

I'll take your ideas to heart and be wary of future mesh purchases.

 

All the best...

 

Susi

[Suki Hirano]

There is something called a DEMO. Almost all mesh have different sizes. If it doesn't fit, try a different size? If no size fits, it means something's wrong with your shape. No creator is going to spend the time rigging to avatars with ridiculous sizes like size 100 boobs or size 100 butt. Does a RL clothing store cater to people with "special" figures? No, you have to go get it custom made. If it has no demo, maybe don't trust and buy it next time?

Please enlighten me on any other modern 3D game, sim (including Sims), that does NOT use rigged mesh. Crap like minecraft excluded since that is not modern nor is it true 3D.

All mesh are ugly? Apparently you haven't been to any quality shops then judging from the poor quality of the boots you bought. I think all clothing layer stuff except a few latex outfits are ugly since I'm pretty sure a sweater is not supposed to have the same thickness as skin painting. *whistles*

Mesh is pretty much the only right direction that LL made since the 5 years I've been on SL, in addition to the features it copied over from 3rd party viewers like stacked attach points.

Cloth layer has much more shape-wise customization, but looks terrible. Mesh has less customization but will improve over time as LL accepts more 3D file formats, and looks so much more realistic.

/rant

 

 

[Coby Foden]

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Susi Soothsayer wrote:

Many of the mesh clothing is really ugly..

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Contrary to your experience I have found a lot of great, very realistic natural looking mesh clothes.  And I mean really beautiful ones.  As an example recently I got a pair of mesh boots. Have a look:

Just lovely, aren't they?  You could easily think that those are real life boots.  But they are SL mesh boots.

Number one rule when buying mesh clothing is:

Try a DEMO first before buying.

 

If the demo does not fit or has faults, don't buy.

If there is no demo, don't buy.

This way you will be happy mesh consumer.  And you will love the great stuff what you'll find. :smileyhappy: