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Why do items come in boxes when they don't need to?


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Czari Zenovka wrote:


Sassy Romano wrote:


Porky Gorky wrote:

Most boxes have unpacker scripts nowadays so it's a simple process of rez, click and delete.No biggie.

 

Exactly and the on_rez() event can even do the unpack and the deletion so there's only any need to rez or wear the box, no touch, no delete needed.
:)

Can someone recommend an unpacker script please?
:)
  Thanks.

Edit: clarification

I will send you a copy of the freebie script I have been using for years. It's clean and simple. I am sure there are fancier scripts out there but this has worked for me without fail, so I have felt no need to change it,

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I have continued using boxes for my full perm building supplies and never had a complaint. But my customers are builders, so they tend to be a pretty savvy bunch.

The advantages to me for keeping stuff boxed: 1) efficiency -   I vend out of the same boxes at my shop 2) The boxes are no trans - a slight stumbling point to passing my boxes of full perm content around

The advantages to my customers: 1) since the box is copy, they always have a back up, 2) less inventory space if they just want to rez the box and take one or two things out instead of all 3) the image on the box when rezzed lets them see visually what they have (yeah I have to leave stuff rezzed to remind myself as well what I as doing when I logged out).

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Porky Gorky wrote:


Czari Zenovka wrote:


Sassy Romano wrote:


Porky Gorky wrote:

Most boxes have unpacker scripts nowadays so it's a simple process of rez, click and delete.No biggie.

 

Exactly and the on_rez() event can even do the unpack and the deletion so there's only any need to rez or wear the box, no touch, no delete needed.
:)

Can someone recommend an unpacker script please?
:)
  Thanks.

Edit: clarification

I will send you a copy of the freebie script I have been using for years. It's clean and simple. I am sure there are fancier scripts out there but this has worked for me without fail, so I have felt no need to change it,

Got it. Thank you so much. :)

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Market place, I put items in folders and deliver that way. In-world, some things go in boxes because they do something. Like I recently made a lot of Wardrobes, chests and treasure/trinket  boxes with doors/lids that open when clicked. I have texture change paintings, rugs, lamps, and fireplace. If people clicked on them to buy, that is all they can do, get the $L sign to buy. They would not see that it changes textures or opens up or lights on/off. In order for people to see these types of products on display for what they can do, I have to put them in boxes. If it doesn't do anything, then they can just click the item to buy. It is that simple for me. I have never had a delivery problem (knocks on wood) so have not felt the need to get a redelivery gadget.

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Staralien wrote:

Market place, I put items in folders and deliver that way. In-world, some things go in boxes because they do something. Like I recently made a lot of Wardrobes, chests and treasure/trinket  boxes with doors/lids that open when clicked. I have texture change paintings, rugs, lamps, and fireplace. If people clicked on them to buy, that is all they can do, get the $L sign to buy.

You can set them so on L click they are Touched. In Firestorm there is a setting so when you set a price, the Touch option does NOT change to Buy (which is annoying).

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There was a survey in the general forums (where you find customers) about a year ago and it showed - 

The vast majority of customers who responded preferred folders

The vast majority of merchants who responded preferred boxes

I'm a merchant and would never box my items unless someone gave me a good reason to do so. I see no good reasons here.

I do what the majority of customers prefer - and this has been shown in that survey.

As a customer I find boxes inconvenient. I don't want to rez and unpack or wear the box.

And I want to see what is in the folder via the contents tab -  I don't just want to be told in the description, and I don't want to hunt for it in a lengthy description.

So, merchants actualy are keeping boxes to please themselves more than to please customers

Anyone can say that their customers tell them this or that - that's just words. Or you could say I am a merchant, but I am a customer too - you are a merchant first so you are defending and supporting your choices as a merchant.

Ask people who are primarily customers

Run another survey if you want facts, and see what the majority of customers say - don't ask merchants. They obviously won't listen.

 

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Rya Nitely wrote:

There was a survey in the general forums (where you find customers) about a year ago and it showed - 

The vast majority of customers who responded preferred folders

The vast majority of merchants who responded preferred boxes
 

Thanks for sharing. I'm glad to read this.

When I make desissions about these kind of things, I always try to approach the matter from the point of view of the customer. But a problem with this, there is not a 'model customer' that you can follow, everybody has its own shopping habits and preferences.

So maybe you tend to listen mainly to your own shopping habits and preferences when you work for this imaginairy customer'... That is at least what I thought, when I was reading the comments in this thread, where the majority seems to prefer receiving items in boxes.

 

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i am sorry for inconvenience :catsad:

 

i too am guilty that all my items arrive boxed :catsad:

why? as others said it is to do with the migration system. the way linden lab set it up is very poorly. it take many hours to move from one linden system to next. if unbox everything it would take many days! thus with merchants pressed for time the things remain boxed usually. it is just the old school way to sell in SL & so the style remains this way today :catindifferent:

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Who are you to tell the other posters their motivations or suggest their reasons are invalid and that they are only saying it for their own convenience? There were many good reasons given for boxing..  I could as easily say your post takes the stand it does just because as a customer you prefer folders. 

 

While those responding may be merchants, merchants are customers too and a lot more merchants buy more things than they sell.  Few merchants can do it all and never have to buy anything for their content creation or for their personal use.

And I disagree about the vast majority preferring folders.  Like Pamela said there have been informal surveys that I too got the impression that customers preferred boxes.  I even have asked my regular customers and the vast majority prefer boxes. As you say, anyone can say that but anyone can claim it isn't true too.  I know what my customers want and will go with that, 

This issue is one that every merchant has to decide fro themselves.  But I will add that I have never had anyone say to me, or overheard someone say, or seen someone say in this forum that they didn't buy a product simply because it was boxed is some what self defeating.  After all if you think an item fits your needs best, or is the best value for your money, you'd be silly to buy second best simply because it is in a folder.

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Easy.

You attache a car. You drop it. No car copy is in your inventory IF you where given a folder. You then drive the car, crash and lost it. It drives off (yes, by itself) and then stops on someones land. You do NOT know where it is. So, you are now with no car....not to nice for a new person who happens to learn the hard way that copy is a feature that makes the vehicle a service so you DON'T have real life sillyness to deal with, which is something I hear...."In real life I can sell a car" and then I wonder what is up with that sort of thing. I mean, if someone told me I can park a car and wonder off and then they will just send me another one and I can like...pull it out of bag and it appears and I can go hundreds of miles an hour and drive on ocean bottoms and I was imortal...I am not sure I would worry abour selling it! So, yeah, copy only perms is a service with no first sales rights and all that jazz, as per SL's method of dealing with non copy items (or at least it used to be that way) because you MUST have trans on if it is no copy and no mods. That way they can lose it, sell it and all that. I had a car lost when it was deleted by a sim owner. Gone. No copy allowed, so it was gone....forever lost! If I had of had it copy, and not dropped it OR dropped it like a noob and then went back to the wonderful original box...viola, it is still there and I pulll a copy out and carry on enjoying the product/service my inventory had stored! Win for the customer, win for the seller. Of course, if they are a customer of mine I would most likely send them one, or they could wait forever until LL breaks something or I update the older one.

 

But, you are right though.....I am not sure people use the products they buy when they are new. I can't think of one thing I use from so many years ago....there must be one. To many freebies and I really should clear them out, also a few trans items to sell.....I wonder what is up or if the marketplace has auctions still? Either way, I need to clean up my inventory a bit.

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Sassy Romano wrote:

No part of the discussion is about the object permissions, not sure if that was clear?
:)

Backups. That is why the box is there, because of how people trash the box and keep the folder and how SL loses things. BUT, this gets into a permissions train of thought and how all that stuff turns out and what it means.

Of course, the solution is to make a script so that a person can not attache the vehicle to themselves if in a scripted zone (if in no script they can't drive it and lose it, though it cuold be parked and never returned...well, in the old days but I haven't heard anything change on that. Sim owners can clear the sim and not return the items) so...yeah, the best way is vai them unpacking a box and having a folder and a box in inventory because it is more likely they will a) delete the box or b) it will be returned. In the event they don't and it is then not returned AND they attache a car and lose it also...well, I mail out updates now and then (years apart, but maybe sooner) and this is a whole entire train of thought about what a service is and it gets confusing. Yeah, this is not about perms it is about why the box....well, human nature providing a backup that they can find if they search and the folder was accidentally deleted, SL messed it up or it was not returned and they didn't have a few copies and are new. Very rare instances and maybe I shouldn't carry on this practice, because it really doesn't serve 90% of my customers and I should implement an awareness campaign and have it to where they know how to backup thier own stuff and tell them the trash folder having another copy tip and such.

So, yeah....I am lost on a tangent about services vs./plus products, perms afecting behavoir and feelings towards products as well as getting lost on a tangent or two and not typing them out.

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Backups only works if it's a copyable item.. if it's no copy then it really doesn't matter if its boxed or not, does it?

Personally, all of my new stuff it in folders.. Why? Because it was faster and eaier to just send the folder to the merchant outbox. Plus, that way, when you look in the contents tab in the MP you see what you are buying, and not what i say in the description. There have been many times i have bought mesh clothing that was boxed and there was no alpha. Because te merchant either forgot it or they didn't think it was needed.. Yes, i actually got that as a responce from one.. " you don't need an alpha for my suit. If you stick out, change your shape." Needless to say i won't buy anything unles i can see the contents now.

Inworld you can usually edit the vendor box to see the contents, or it pops up when you buy, before you actualy pay it..

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Here's the old discussion, and yes it is a small survey.

I took the time to do the adding up -

58% of customers (no MP listings) preferred folders. So it's a majority - I take back vast.

30% of merchants preferred folders

31 Mar 2012 box folder survey

 

This was over a year ago. So very early into DD. It would be interesting to see what customers thought now that they have had more exposure to folders.

I'm going to set aside my views (which were overly strong), and create a new thread in the general section asking customers to respond. I really don't think you can get a fair idea if merchants respond as we already know the answer to that from this thread.

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Agree with you, Amethyst.  As a customer, I MUCH prefer boxes, especially for copy items - speaking here mainly of clothes.  In the past, I received an outfit in a box, sometimes done very nicely with the photo on the front - I copied one set into my inventory and safely stored the nice, neat box away in case I needed anything from it later.

Now when I get outfits in folders, I have to make the storage box - but that isn't a major deal; but I still prefer the boxes. 

Edit: Typo

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In my case, as merchant, when I make an outfit, normally 7 to 9 colors each, I try to be as organized as possible, that means I make 1 folder per color for the textures and in that same folder I drag all the things that I'm creating for each color (Some outfits had more than 200 textures ._.)

Due to this, my inventory was over 100K items and it always took me around 2-3 hours to finally being able to login to SL, no matter what viewer I was using. Now my inventory is 88K, still take me a few minutes to login but better to wait minutes than hours D:

Boxing items is the best option to save space for textures/objects (at least for me) and if some day I want to wear some of the things i create then I just go and open the box.


I know it can be annoying sometimes to open boxes -> wait until it loads -> delete -> clean trash etc, but you need to put yourself in some merchant's position. More inentory to load = slower SL -> Slower SL = Annoying way to work.

 

And as costumer, I prefer to get boxes, sometimes i buy a dress, wear it, then delete it, I want to wear it again? just go and open the box, simple as that, and is better that way than keep doing useless space and making the inventory list longer.

At least imo ;)

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

Sassy Romano wrote:

Porky Gorky wrote:

Most boxes have unpacker scripts nowadays so it's a simple process of rez, click and delete.No biggie.

 

Exactly and the on_rez() event can even do the unpack and the deletion so there's only any need to rez or wear the box, no touch, no delete needed.
:)

Can someone recommend an unpacker script please?
:)
  Thanks.

Edit: clarification

I know you've been sent one but for anyone else, here's a free one

// Giver script by IAIN MALTZ © 02 Sep 2012// gives out everything in the object's contents that IS NOT a script//// Licenced under the GPL.  You must leave this item as full permissions and may not sell this script stand-alone// you may incorporate it into products which are sold, however this script must still remain full permissions//// In case of query or problem please contact Iain Maltzdefault{    state_entry()    {        llSetMemoryLimit(llGetUsedMemory()+1024);    }    touch_start(integer n)    {        for (n--;n>=0;n--)        {            integer j=llGetInventoryNumber(INVENTORY_ALL);            for (j--;j>=0;j--)            {                string name=llGetInventoryName(INVENTORY_ALL,j);                if (llGetInventoryType(name)!=INVENTORY_SCRIPT)                {                    llGiveInventory(llDetectedKey(n),name);                }            }        }    }}

 

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Rya Nitely wrote:

 

So, merchants actualy are keeping boxes to please themselves more than to please customers
.

 

Networked vendor systems won't work with folders, they can only take advantage of boxes, so yes that is an issue of a merchant preference, but it's one that allows them to reach customers in a more efficient manner.

 

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Ciaran Laval wrote:


Rya Nitely wrote:


So, merchants actualy are keeping boxes to please themselves more than to please customers
.

 

Networked vendor systems won't work with folders, they can only take advantage of boxes, so yes that is an issue of a merchant preference, but it's one that allows them to reach customers in a more efficient manner.

 


I agree, network vendor systems need to have boxes - no choice there. But Marketplace and Direct Delivery gives you a choice. I said that customers seem to prefer folders, whereas merchants seem to prefer boxes. Even in the other thread - people who said they prefer boxes were mainly merchants.

And the OP was talking about Marketplace.

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Rya Nitely wrote:

As a customer I find boxes inconvenient. I don't want to rez and unpack or wear the box.

So, merchants actualy are keeping boxes to please themselves more than to please customers

 

Well, I can happily agree with both of these :)  As a customer, particularly for mesh demos, a folder is far easier than having to rez the box, unpack the box, try it, delete the now unpacked folder, delete the box and delete the content in Received Items.

However as a merchant, while I will normally do all that I can to make life easier for customers, because I use an inworld network vending system, it's more logical to maintain the same consistency from my part and that's the good reason i'm sticking with for using boxes in both locations.

What would be useful would the an API to permit third parties to leverage the MP folder delivery... (or expand on llGiveInventoryList such that folders could be specified but that won't happen).  Then an inworld networked vending system could send the MP content.

 

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I think there's a a lot of things a merchant can do in SL to turn a customer into an ex-customer, however, merchants not meeting a customers packaging preferences is definitely not one of them imo. It's a non issue. If a person wants to buy a piece of content then they will buy it regardless of the packaging method. It's just not important and the subject does not warrant the amount of threads currently active on the forums.

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Porky Gorky wrote:

If a person wants to buy a piece of content then they will buy it regardless of the packaging method.

Yes, that's true...but simply getting the sale shouldn't be where you draw the line. It's called polishing your brand. Whether you make a decision to box or not, it should be a considered choice.


Porky Gorky wrote:

It's just not important and the subject does not warrant the amount of threads currently active on the forums.

It's not important to you. But the fact that there are 3 threads - all hot topics - should tell you something.

 

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Rya Nitely wrote:

 

 

Ciaran Laval wrote:


Rya Nitely wrote:

 

So, merchants actualy are keeping boxes to please themselves more than to please customers
.

 

Networked vendor systems won't work with folders, they can only take advantage of boxes, so yes that is an issue of a merchant preference, but it's one that allows them to reach customers in a more efficient manner.

 

 

I agree, network vendor systems need to have boxes - no choice there. But Marketplace and Direct Delivery gives you a choice. I said that customers seem to prefer folders, whereas merchants seem to prefer boxes. Even in the other thread - people who said they prefer boxes were mainly merchants.

And the OP was talking about Marketplace.

True enough, but if Marketplace gives you a choice and the in-world vendors don't, you have to go with the one that works in both places.  Otherwise, as several people have pointed out, you end up having to do twice the work as a merchant --- boxing items for the vendors that require them and not boxing them to deal with MP.   For a small-time creator/merchant like me with fewer than 200 items, that's a nuisance but not a deal-breaker.  For the larger stores, though, it's a major waste of time for questionable gain. 

This whole discussion, while interesting, sounds a lot like the old Dear Abby thread in which people argued for months about whether toilet paper should pull off the top of the roll or the bottom.  Surely merchants and comsumers have more pressing things to worry about.

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