Sansar prices

[Darrius Gothly]

ChinRey: This isn't addressed for you specifically; it is aimed @all

Modern 3D graphics data and object management, storage, transmission, rendering and display are skills rarely found all at once in a single individual (or even small team). Simply using 3D objects (such as the meshes used in SL) is one level of skill, but writing the software to deal with them is a whole different classification of expertise.

We can tell easily that "doing it right" is something not a lot of groups can accomplish simply by counting the 3D engines out there that are truly original creations and not just sets of optimizations wrapped around an engine written by someone else.

I don't keep up to date on who within the LL staff has that level of graphics expertise, so I have to ask: Is there a person or small team within Linden Lab capable of writing the code to create a new engine of their own?

My sense is .. "No." But I have no direct knowledge so that's just my impression. I do realize they have folks within their staff that understand basics about the engine used in the SL Viewer, and I do believe they have folks that when teamed properly can cover the existing codebase without problems. But do they have the capability in-house to create something new that isn't mired in SL's past and takes advantage of all the latest advancements in 3D modeling?

[Chic Aeon]

Since The Lab did hire a LOT of new people, not just move over SL staff, it is resonable to assume that SOME of the new folks MIGHT just be the ones that know the stuff your are talking about .

 

Just using a little common sense to figure out a likely scenario.

[Darrius Gothly]

---

Chic Aeon wrote:

Since The Lab did hire a LOT of new people, not just move over SL staff, it is resonable to assume that SOME of the new folks MIGHT just be the ones that know the stuff your are talking about

. 

Just using a little common sense to figure out a likely scenario.

---

See, that's why I asked .. because I didn't know. In fact, I hadn't really heard of LL hiring people. I had assumed they'd piled a few more bodies on the dev bonfire, but hadn't heard any solid quantification of that assumption.

Do you have some references that call out a specific .. or nearly specific number of positions added?

[Perrie Juran]

polysail wrote:

Both!

Fix the people by teaching them!  Thankfully learning about polycounts and render efficiency is just a few clicks away on youtube~ for those who actually care to look!

Fix the tech by making it more obvious and user friendly!  ( better feedback! )

SL is finally implementing features to raise user ( and designer ) awareness about mesh rendering complexity costs.  I'm sure Sansar will have a similar type of indicator.  ( Hopefully even better ones!! )

 

Sadly, due to the framerate expectations that Sansar has on it, it only really has one option: well designed (optimized) mesh assets.   The type that every other game engine in the entire world relies upon and uses.  So~~ SL people will have to learn a little bit more.  Every other content designer won't even bat an eye.  After all Second Life is the 

only

game type platform without incredibly restrictive polycount rules for content submission.  That's okay!~!  Necessity will dictate improvement~  I have very few doubts that LL will get their builders to populate the new world; as unemployed 3D artists aren't exactly a rarity.

I'm sure you'll manage to come up with some horrible gloom and doom scenario with this new-found knowledge but!  I'm pretty confident that the average mesh designer on SL will adapt to these new circumstances by the time Sansar rolls around and actually becomes 'a thing'~  

Anyhooo !!  Glad everyone understands this stuff a little better!!~~ back to Bento testing for me!!

---

Teaching is the place where LL has fallen sadly short: Very, very short.

And it has cost them money.  And it has cost them customers.

Consider this exchange between Monty and Torley:

 

Monty Linden added a comment - 17/Oct/14 11:32 AM - edited

So, in something like game development where one hierarchical team would make resource decisions, a resource target would be set (say 256MB resident textures) and content would be adapted to fit in it. Doesn't work for us where content is designed without foreknowledge of its target environment. Better tools for the content creators is certainly desperately needed. Has been, is now, will be tomorrow.

But it's not enough. That centralized feedback loop within a design team doesn't have a direct analog in SL. Instead, there are many independent possible feedback loops. Estate owners/managers and event/build organizers might want the resource allocation and enforcement role. Renters, visitors, fabricators, etc. are directly and indirectly consuming it. The piece that is missing is the communication/advice/enforcement/review network so that everything can be brought into balance. Prim/rendering cost doesn't quite cover it.

Recent changes are probably going to aggravate it. Mesh and texture behavior just became a whole lot more permissive. I'm expecting overbuilding to become more common.

 

Torley Linden added a comment - 17/Oct/14 4:07 PM - edited

That's a great way to put it, Monty — the "communication/advice/enforcement/review network" is the social-cultural piece of the puzzle. I have always advocated for this in SL and am more than happy to help if we (Linden Lab) are going to raise awareness, especially at a broad level that sets a good example of content creation practices. It's incredibly important to teach our community how to get the most out of any tools and to be aware that resource usage needs to be balanced for optimized experiences.

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-2514

But outside of a few scattered comments in the Wiki I've never seen a "Best Practices" guide, video, or etc from Linden Lab.

 

[Pamela Galli]

Before Charlar disappeared, he responded to our plea for some kind of mesh user manual with a promise it was on a to do list somewhere. That's the last we heard.

[AnaisAigner]

In relation to the original post on prices etc.  I sell avatars on my commercial account along with a clothing store.  I can't speculate what specific pricing I would set yet as I don't yet know the market or interaction I will have with it.   

It all comes down to competition and demand for me.  If Demand is high and Competition is low I will price accordingly.

However, I suspect within a year it will balance out with Competition and the price war will star just like it did in Second Life.   As long as demand is high and some stiff competition that means consumers will get a better deal as creators can bear lower prices if they sell high volumes.   

I just hope Gotchas and Events don't make it to Sansar.  Those are things that effectively have funneled revenue into specific patterns that really have saturated content too much for my liking.