Ripped mesh- Can LL add a new feature for reporting?

[inboccaallupo]

This is more of a discussion and I apologize if I have put it into the wrong topic on the forums.

 

Ripped mesh is truly an issue, people are making money off of not just copyright work. They are stealing the entire work, which is far worse in my eyes than say someone who has copyright infringement with making a spiderman avatar they built from scratch. 

 

I suppose my question or discussion is if there are other ways to report ripped mesh besides having to contact the owner for copyright infringement? Am I missing anything? I would think something like taking a screenshot of the same object they stole the mesh from would be good enough. (Seriously, I could log into League of Legends, WoW, Tera, and likely get 100s and 100s of products proven to be ripped by just logging in these games and screeshotting those mesh objects)

 

It actually HURTS the secondlife market, and original creators. When people have to search through 7 pages of ripped mesh clothing to find good original mesh clothing and they are more likely to go "I guess there's only ripped stuff" and buy that instead. I believe LL is not taking the ripped mesh issue as seriously as they should and I have read many times over of creators growing frustrated and tempted to leave or put their mesh work elsewhere when their honest selling is outnumbered or shadowed by ripped products. And OBVIOUS ripped products at that.

 

The fact that so many ripped mesh stores are still here since day one and even have sims for their stolen product is mind boggling to me. If there were another option to report ripped mesh than just a copyright infringement option and needing to get someone of Blizzard to send all the proof of owning the product and it would help clear out the ripped products. With less ripped products on SL and it would be easier to find and buy/support the original creators who actually bust their ass to create amazing things for us all.Wanted to see other's opinions and if there is anyway we could try to suggest a screenshot in the video game option for reporting "ripped mesh" instead of 'copyright infringement'

[Alwin Alcott]

i think most will agree and recognize your post... but really... not worth typing the words...

Nothing is going to happen, only the rightfull owner can file a dmca.

LL know's very well lots of the MP stores only sell stolen content..

 

[ChinRey]

As Alwin said, only the owner of the IP rights can take any kind of action against copyright infringements but yes, LL could add an system for notifying the IP owner if there is reason to believe there is an issue.

They're not going to though. It would take a bit of work and they have no interest themselves in catching the violators, quite the contrary. So they only do the minimum the law forces them to.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

There is no difference between "copyright infringement with making a Spiderman avatar" and ripping a mesh model from someone. Spiderman is someone's creation and intellectual property the same as any other creation.  A spiderman avatar is never 'built from scratch' its design is ripped off from that original creator and/or the holder of the IP rights.

A photo is not enough as it doesn't prove who made the original design.  In a court, if it gets that far, the original creator must present proof showing they made the item first.  A photo will not do it.

You may not realize it but mesh clothes models are sold by SL creators full perm for merchants to resell.  Clothes that are ripped from other places in the web would then have to be rigged for the SL avatar, not that easily done.  Someone that goes through that trouble is just as likely to make their own clothes.  Other mesh models are sold full perm too.  It is also possible that that someone has a license or permission from the original creator.  You can't know and neither can LL.  That is why only the owner of the IP rights can file a DMCA.

It is the responsibility of the holder of a copyright or IP right to protect their right, it is not LL's responsibility.

I agree that those that sell ripped mesh should face very serious consequences.  However the law is the law and it protects the original creator as well as those falsely accused of ripping off other's IP.  This has happened before in RL and right here in SL.  Example: someone rips off another designer then files a DMCA against them.  Therefore the law must be followed.  LL must follow the law too or open themselves to tremendous liability.  They also don't have the staff to vet each product sold on MP or in world or even research if it's someone else's IP and notify them.   Theft of IP is a problem all over the internet and site owners are not required to have the huge staff it would take to police their sites. 

If you are concerned than the only thing to do is notify the owner of the intellectual property.  Most people won't though.  They want to put off all responsibility on LL.

[inboccaallupo]

I'm not sure how difficult rigging is in blender but things like Maya take 5 or 10 minutes to rig. I understand someone making a spiderman avatar and someone ripping it is the same thing, ripping is just more of a joke to me because that person will make the same or more money 20 minutes ripping and rigging than a creator that spent a week or more with something similar. And ripping is obvious, it doesn't look pretty and the textures don't transfer well in a rip. But sadly people still buy it and thus support it.

 

I've tried to report to Blizzard and other companies but sadly I think they get so many that I'm not sure they even look at them. I know things like Manticore and LostGem had dozens of people reporting them but they still have their own sims and are thriving.

 

Thanks for the replies though guys, felt good to talk about it

I will continue to try and contact the original owners and hope they report it to LL.

[shaniqua Sahara]

there is no such thing as intellectual property. nobody owns ideas, words or meshes. why is it ok to use words that some else made to write your story or colors some else make to paint your art?

there are only so many ways to say "i love you" and only so many ways to make a human avatar or a chair or whatever. polygons belong to everyone, so do words and any combination of words. intellectual property is a fabrication of criminals who took other people stuff and claimed it for themselves. they are criminals not because they took it, but because they concocted a device "intellectual property"to prevent others from using what is not theirs. they are the rippers.

you'd be no where without things other people invented..............lucky no one copyrighted the pencil or pixels or keyboards.........or a gazilion other things you use everyday to create "your"...........IT'S ALL MINE.........property.

[Pamela Galli]

You are about as full of, ah, "baloney" as anyone I have ever seen in this forum.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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shaniqua Sahara wrote:

you'd be no where without things other people invented..............lucky no one copyrighted the pencil or pixels or keyboards.........or a gazilion other things you use everyday to create "your"...........IT'S ALL MINE.........property.

---

Wait, you don't think Alienware copyright protected my keyboard? or that Disney doesn't protect its "pixels" you watch on video? You are a grade A batch of crazy?  Hold up. You really think an artist doesn't own the rights to their art because someone else made the brushes, canvas and paints? Well hell, girl, your parents made you, does that make you their property?

[shaniqua Sahara]

sure Pamela and your reputation is quite well known as well.

[shaniqua Sahara]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Wait, you don't think Alienware copyright protected my keyboard? or that Disney doesn't protect its "pixels" you watch on video? You are a grade A batch of crazy? 

this is how you understood what i wrote? putting Disney aside, just because there are laws concerning "intellectual property" doesn't mean there actually is such a thing or that it is just. disney uses the laws to their advantage just like so many other people and companies. i am talking about the concept. just because Disney can invoke a law, it doesn't validate the concept that law is based on.

Hold up. You really think an artist doesn't own the rights to their art because someone else made the brushes, canvas and paints?

yes. a brush is an invention, according to "IP" rights why shouldn't that inventor be compensated.....why doesn't that artist have to buy a license? why isn't it infringement on the invention if that artist makes his own brushes?

do you see how ridiculous that is? according to IP rights such a thing is possible.

Well hell, girl, your parents made you, does that make you their property?

are you trying to make my point or yours?

 

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[ChinRey]

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shaniqua Sahara wrote:

there is no such thing as intellectual property. nobody owns ideas, words or meshes. why is it ok to use words that some else made to write your story or colors some else make to paint your art?

---

I can go along with that as long as you agree to extend it to everything. We shouldn't have to pay for food or (RL) housing or computers or electricity or anything. It should all be free for the good of the people!

I come from a musician background and saw what music streaming did: record sales just stopped overnight, many good musicians were no longer able to make a living and since musicians need food and shelter too and those things for some reason aren't free, they had to give up their jobs and try to find something else.

 

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shaniqua Sahara wrote:

you'd be no where without things other people invented

---

That's right. But you know what, those people who inveted... they too needed (and need) food and shelter. They don't just want, they need some sort of income from the work they do. That is what intellectual property protecion is all about in the end, it's to ensure that creative people of all kinds will be able to continue to create for the good of all mankind.

[ChinRey]

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shaniqua Sahara wrote:

yes. a brush is an invention, according to "IP" rights why shouldn't that inventor be compensated.....

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Are you saying painters steal the paint brushes they use? I always thought they bought them.

 

Yes, I'm all with you there. Painters should of course pay the creators of the brushes and paint and canvases and everything else they use!

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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shaniqua Sahara wrote:

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Wait, you don't think Alienware copyright protected my keyboard? or that Disney doesn't protect its "pixels" you watch on video? You are a grade A batch of crazy? 

this is how you understood what i wrote? putting Disney aside, just because there are laws concerning "intellectual property" doesn't mean there actually is such a thing or that it is just. disney uses the laws to their advantage just like so many other people and companies. i am talking about the concept. just because Disney can invoke a law, it doesn't validate the concept that law is based on.

Hold up. You really think an artist doesn't own the rights to their art because someone else made the brushes, canvas and paints?

yes. a brush is an invention, according to "IP" rights why shouldn't that inventor be compensated.....why doesn't that artist have to buy a license? why isn't it infringement on the invention if that artist makes his own brushes?

do you see how ridiculous that is? according to IP rights such a thing is possible.

Well hell, girl, your parents made you, does that make you their property?

are you trying to make my point or yours?

 

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You just don't understand how the laws work... It's not infringement for an artist to make their own brushes, unless they use the exact same materials, glue and design.

The most certainly is such a thing a IP. Patents have been around for a very very long time. Before that smiths put makers marks on things they made, why do you suppose that is? perhaps they were proud of their design and didn't want others copying it and stealing their work?

If i was forced to guess, I would say you would be one of those that has been protesting the last week in the US. It certainly sounds like you are one of the entitled generation.

[shaniqua Sahara]

none of you even understand to make sensible replies.

let me try it this way.... how is it that we have things that no one owns the rights to?

 

yes chin they bought the brushes.......and those that made them got paid but the inventor did not. see that is why you can make brushes and sell them.

 

you all just accept things as fact and natural but you haven't really thought about it.

[shaniqua Sahara]

how did people, artists, inventors and the like survive for thousands of years? you don't want to think it out in a real way, you'd rather just be snide because it seems so obsurd to you that people can make money.....plenty money.....all kinds of people like musicians without anything like copyrights....... i didn't just make this up off the top of my head. rather than talk to me like i am a fool. look into it first............see what kind of minds you are actually calling a fool(not literally....i know i have to say that plainly). and no copyright does not mean free. you should not equate the two.

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ChinRey wrote:

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shaniqua Sahara wrote:

there is no such thing as intellectual property. nobody owns ideas, words or meshes. why is it ok to use words that some else made to write your story or colors some else make to paint your art?

---

I can go along with that as long as you agree to extend it to everything. We shouldn't have to pay for food or (RL) housing or computers or electricity or anything. It should all be free for the good of the people!

I come from a musician background and saw what music streaming did: record sales just stopped overnight, many good musicians were no longer able to make a living and since musicians need food and shelter too and those things for some reason aren't free, they had to give up their jobs and try to find something else.

 

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shaniqua Sahara wrote:

you'd be no where without things other people invented

---

That's right. But you know what, those people who inveted... they too needed (and need) food and shelter. They don't just want, they

need

some sort of income from the work they do. That is what intellectual property protecion is all about in the end, it's to ensure that creative people of all kinds will be able to continue to create for the good of all mankind.

---

 

[VanillaSunsets]

shaniqua Sahara wrote:

how did people, artists, inventors and the like survive for thousands of years? 

 

Well, without ppl that downloaded, maybe? They would sell things called records and ppl would pay for them. Before records ppl would pay to visit a live performance and were willing to pay be there.:catwink:

 

 

[VanillaSunsets]

I know you have mentioned in another post that you are about to release your own mesh body. How would you feel if you saw that body, just weeks after your release, being sold by another resident, for a very low price? How would you feel if this resulted into your sales dropping to almost zero, even tho you made this, you spend weeks working trough problems, texturing and stuff...? Can you honestly say you would be perfectly fine with that coz you do not believe in copyrights?

 

[shaniqua Sahara]

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VanillaSunsets wrote:

shaniqua Sahara wrote:

how did people, artists, inventors and the like survive for thousands of years? 

 

Well, without ppl that downloaded, maybe? They would sell things called records and ppl would pay for them. Before records ppl would pay to visit a live performance and were willing to pay be there.:catwink:

 

 

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yes exactly and you see how well it worked out.

copyleft is freedom not freeloading. it's seems too radical a concept, so much so that people don't even realize that it's actually fundamental to the grow and health of a society.

 

you all can act like i just made this up, like i am some dope, but you have to admit noe of you have actually given it true consideration and thought. you all assume not only that that's the way it needs to be but that's the way it's always been.

you all are wrong and indoctrinated. if the powers that be switched tomorrow so would all of you and likely deny that you were ever against copyleft.

[shaniqua Sahara]

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VanillaSunsets wrote:

I know you have mentioned in another post that you are about to release your own mesh body. How would you feel if you saw that body, just weeks after your release, being sold by another resident, for a very low price? How would you feel if this resulted into your sales dropping to almost zero, even tho you made this, you spend weeks working trough problems, texturing and stuff...? Can you honestly say you would be perfectly fine with that coz you do not believe in copyrights?

 

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i wouldn't sweat it. sales would not drop to zero(not that i anticipate any), people who copy but never add anything to what they take are always behind the true creators. there are ripped bodies out there yet i have a maitreya, why? because there is more value in it, the rippers can't provide that. most of those that buy ripped stuff would never have bought the original. software companies gripe about pirates yet they stil somehow make money hand over fist. music companies cry about pirates yet they make make record profits, hollywood, writers, youtubers even all make tons of money. how can this be if your premise is sound?

people with skill and talent will always make money, it's copyrights that make empty suits make money for doing nothing.

look at the history of the music industry, is there even an artist who has not been robbed by those suits with lawyers?

[VanillaSunsets]

I rarely make ppl feel like they are some dope, well, on a rare occasion I do but that generally says more about them then it does about me. In other words, I did not try to make you feel like that. You assume this.

I did give subjects like this a lot of thought actually. I come from a very mixed background IRL and had ppl around me variable from leaning towards communism to very materialistic ppl that owned their own businesses. also, I read a lot... meaning a LOT! So again, you are the one making assumptions.

I am all for change if it is for the better, sometimes some powers are in the hands the wrong person. But I am also pro structure, society need some structure, it needs laws, generally ppl need things to be clear.

If you do not agree, it's really ok. I am feeling a political and/or moral discussion coming up and I would like to pass on that as those are both endless discussions. 

 

[Pamela Galli]

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VanillaSunsets wrote:

I rarely make ppl feel like they are some dope, well, on a rare occasion I do but that generally says more about them then it does about me. In other words, I did not try to make you feel like that. You assume this.

I did give subjects like this a lot of thought actually. I come from a very mixed background IRL and had ppl around me variable from leaning towards communism to very materialistic ppl that owned their own businesses. also, I read a lot... meaning a LOT! So again, you are the one making assumptions.

I am all for change if it is for the better, sometimes some powers are in the hands the wrong person. But I am also pro structure, society need some structure, it needs laws, generally ppl need things to be clear.

If you do not agree, it's really ok. I am feeling a political and/or moral discussion coming up and I would like to pass on that as those are both endless discussions. 

 

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Yes, anyone who wants to read copy-leftist nonsense can find plenty in forum archives.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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shaniqua Sahara wrote:

you'd be no where without things other people invented..............lucky no one copyrighted the pencil or pixels or keyboards.........or a gazilion other things you use everyday to create "your"...........IT'S ALL MINE.........property.

---

Wait, you don't think Alienware copyright protected my keyboard?

or that Disney doesn't protect its "pixels" you watch on video? You are a grade A batch of crazy?  Hold up. You really think an artist doesn't own the rights to their art because someone else made the brushes, canvas and paints? Well hell, girl, your parents made you, does that make you their property?

---

No they didn't, because a useful object like a keyboard isn't a copyrightable thing. They certainly TRADEMARKED the name "Alienware." If there's a distinctive non-functional decorative element to it they may have taken out a DESIGN PATENT. If there is a truly original, non-obvious technical solution they're using they may have gotten a UTILITY PATENT.

Intellectual property law is far more complex than many people think. Take it from the horse's mouth:

https://www.uspto.gov/patents-getting-started/general-information-concerning-patents#heading-2

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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shaniqua Sahara wrote:

none of you even understand to make sensible replies.

let me try it this way.... how is it that we have things that no one owns the rights to?

 

yes chin they bought the brushes.......and those that made them got paid but the inventor did not. see that is why you can make brushes and sell them.

 

you all just accept things as fact and natural but you haven't really thought about it.

---

What, exactly, do we own that no one holds the rights to?

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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shaniqua Sahara wrote:

you'd be no where without things other people invented..............lucky no one copyrighted the pencil or pixels or keyboards.........or a gazilion other things you use everyday to create "your"...........IT'S ALL MINE.........property.

---

Wait, you don't think Alienware copyright protected my keyboard?

or that Disney doesn't protect its "pixels" you watch on video? You are a grade A batch of crazy?  Hold up. You really think an artist doesn't own the rights to their art because someone else made the brushes, canvas and paints? Well hell, girl, your parents made you, does that make you their property?

---

No they didn't, because a useful object like a keyboard isn't a

copyrightable

thing. They certainly TRADEMARKED the name "Alienware." If there's a distinctive non-functional decorative element to it they may have taken out a DESIGN PATENT. If there is a truly original, non-obvious technical solution they're using they may have gotten a UTILITY PATENT.

Intellectual property law is far more complex than many people think. Take it from the horse's mouth:

https://www.uspto.gov/patents-getting-started/general-information-concerning-patents#heading-2

---

I get it, wrong term. My bad, blame the pain killers. Kidney stones suck.

The point is, whatever you call it, you cant make a copy of my alienware keyboard and sell it without breaking some law. Same as selling burned copies of movies, music, books and games. Those ARE copyright protected.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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shaniqua Sahara wrote:

how did people, artists, inventors and the like survive for thousands of years? you don't want to think it out in a real way, you'd rather just be snide because it seems so obsurd to you that people can make money.....plenty money.....all kinds of people like musicians without anything like copyrights.......

---

How? Simple, they signed their work. If they came across a forgery and they were famous enough the person who bought it would most likely put a bounty on their head, if they were rich enough.

Inventors sold their inventions. They usually were the only ones able to make the item so there was no need to protect their work. Again, if someone was caught recreating them they were usually killed.

Would you rather we went back to that time? If Beyonce ripped off Lady Gagas new song they should fight it out in the Thunderdome? Actually, come to think of it, that might not be a bad idea...