LindeX - Service Must Increase

[Steph Catseye]

Linden Labs claimed their monopoly.... I am extremly frustrated over this and here is why.

Using Paypal professionally is like bringing a knife to a gun fight, I will lose 45 EUR (60USD) over this weekly

My old provider ELDEX, delivered my money within 24 hours to my bank account

Linden Labs / LindeX allows themselves 5 Days... another 5 days from Paypal to my bank
This means I wait 9 days longer...
The year has 52 weeks and I am waiting 9 days every week this means I am waiting 468 days a "year" longer as with my regular provider and lose money over it.

LL MUST get their act together, the government suggests that virtual currencies are not a token they are currencies, that makes LindeX a bank and not only that a bank is not allowed to keep money longer than 24 hours, they need to provide better options because Paypal is for babies and Ebayers but not for business owners.

People might don't know it yet but this is the worst thing that has ever happened to Second Life, it is not that I need that money immediately but there is a principle involved because whatever LL is doing compared to 3rd party is much much worse. Just compare Firestorm and that crappy SL Viewer, there are universes in between quality and handling and the same thing is happening with our money now.

[Alicia Sautereau]

On this topic you will hear no one state otherwise, nor on additional payment option

[Accountant Adzebills]

I definitely agree!  The processing time from SL to Paypal is completely nuts. 0-5 days? I don't mind planning ahead but why in the world does the equivalent of an EFT take so long?  PLEASE get it TOGETHER Linden Labs!

[MisstressSinthia Demina]

To LL:

To limit the options that we have to access what we rightfully earned is absolute nonsense. You hurt those that need it most along with discouraging others who may want to do the same with theirs. If there are ways to make the process more efficient and even cheaper, find it. They are out there and you'll make all Residents happy along with helping LL in the process.

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

---

Steph Catseye wrote:

 

LL MUST get their act together, the government suggests that virtual currencies are not a token they are currencies, that makes LindeX a bank and not only that

a bank is not allowed to keep money longer than 24 hours

, they need to provide better options because Paypal is for babies and Ebayers but not for business owners.

 

 

---

Where? In the United States banks frequently won't allow you to withdraw all the money from a large deposit for days.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

---

Steph Catseye wrote:

LL MUST get their act together, the government suggests that virtual currencies are not a token they are currencies, that makes LindeX a bank and not only that a bank is not allowed to keep money longer than 24 hours

---

I agree that LL needs to process transactions faster.  However the lindex is classified by the US Treasury as a currency exchange not a bank.  A bank holds money, pays interest on savings accounts, make loans, can provide checking account services, can provide investment services and handle pensions etc.  LL does none of that, so different standards and regulations apply.

[Stari Adder]

for me it is a total fail actually since my country is not working with paypal and I have no opportunity to withdraw at all... I would use paypal and no problem to wait but really?? how the hell I can now withdraw at all? demn

[Madeliefste Oh]

What I would like to see on Lindex is that people can buy and sell in their own cuncurrency...

I would be a lot more user friendly when people can buy and sell L$ also for euros, pounds, yens and so on.

[Steph Catseye]

---

Madeliefste Oh wrote:

What I would like to see on Lindex is that people can buy and sell in their own cuncurrency...

I would be a lot more user friendly when people can buy and sell L$ also for euros, pounds, yens and so on.

---

I couldn't agree more, this is another way to lose money with PayPal

[Nefertiti Nefarious]

There may be 3rd party exchanges still operating ... but LL isn't listing them. 

Try searching Google:  I found http://www.podex.info/  and a few others

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Theresa Tennyson wrote:

---

Steph Catseye wrote:

 

LL MUST get their act together, the government suggests that virtual currencies are not a token they are currencies, that makes LindeX a bank and not only that

a bank is not allowed to keep money longer than 24 hours

, they need to provide better options because Paypal is for babies and Ebayers but not for business owners.

 

 

---

Where? In the United States banks frequently won't allow you to withdraw all the money from a large deposit for days.

---

Someone from a European country mentioned on a thread in General that s/he didn't have a bank account and paid all his/her RL bills in cash.  In the US there are some stores that won't accept cash for large purchases because they are concerned that it could be conterfeit. 

I've heard that many people who can't afford checking accounts in the US (although in my area at least one major bank offers a free checking account) are now using pre-paid cards like GreenDot and others so they don't carry around a lot of cash.

 

[Perrie Juran]

---

Madeliefste Oh wrote:

What I would like to see on Lindex is that people can buy and sell in their own cuncurrency...

I would be a lot more user friendly when people can buy and sell L$ also for euros, pounds, yens and so on.

---

To do this the cost (fee) for doing buying and selling $L on the Lindex would have to go up.

Linden Lab would first off have to be using a bank that dealt in multiple currencies (which most banks actually do) and Linden Lab would have to arrange with their Bank to handle multiple currencies for them.  The Bank is going to charge Linden Lab for this. 

My daughter lives overseas and I have needed a few times to send her money.  I wound up having to shop Banks for the best transfer fees.  We also have to watch the conversion fees, whether it is cheaper for me to send funds in US Dollars and let her convert at her bank or for me to convert first and send in her currency.

When you dealt with a TPE you paid a stipend that was worked into their exchange rate to cover the costs that they were incurring with their Bank(s).

 

eta for clarity

[Madeliefste Oh]

The L$ - usd rade could be exactly the same.

Since LL is not actually buying any L$, but it is a user to user trade, it is going to be a matter linking buyers and sellers who want to trade in euros to each other. They can use a European bank to cash the fees. These fees will cover the expenses to exchange euro's back to usd.

But that doesn't have to be higher then it was on third party exchangers. Because that was where those made their profit from: ease of use, and fast service.

Some years ago Philip set the aim to make SL: fast, easy and fun.

There are two oppertunities now for LL to realise this goal: Lindex and be made more fast and Lindex can be made more easy.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Madeliefste Oh wrote:

The L$ - usd rade could be exactly the same.

Since LL is not actually buying any L$, but it is a user to user trade, it is going to be a matter linking buyers and sellers who want to trade in euros to each other. They can use a European bank to cash the fees. These fees will cover the expenses to exchange euro's back to usd.

But that doesn't have to be higher then it was on third party exchangers. Because that was where those made their profit from: ease of use, and fast service.

Some years ago Philip set the aim to make SL: fast, easy and fun.

There are two oppertunities now for LL to realise this goal: Lindex and be made more fast and Lindex can be made more easy.

---

Using a European bank to handle transactions in EuroDollars could be a work around. 

They'd still have to be able to prove vialble fraud control to Fin-Cen here which may be harder to do if the used a European bank.

I agree it should be fast & easy and not detract from our Fun.

[Marit Huet]

This new TOS is again showing the residents and business owners that developing business in SL is a risky business. Some dudes at linden lab proven in the past and now again they have totally no respect or consideration for their users.

for several years I use the services from DX exchange, because I can directly transfer funds from my bank account, without the need of a credit card or Paypal.

DX echange is a real world registered office, and made a lot of effort to be one of the best exchange services in secondlife, used by german, spanish, english and dutch residents for a few years

they are told that the have to shut down their activities within 4 days !  couldnt LL give them atleast 30 days to deal with the new situation ?

For me this will be the end of my secondlife, I will sell my sims and close my shops, because I refuse to be forced to use a payment methot I dont want to use.

[Madeliefste Oh]

---

Marit Huet wrote:

DX echange is a real world registered office, and made a lot of effort to be one of the best exchange services in secondlife, used by german, spanish, english and dutch residents for a few years

---

I don't know how it was for buyers, but as a seller of L$, dealing with DX Exchange was not profitable at all. I used it once to exchange L$ to euros (back in 2007). But I ended up with less euros then when I sold my money on Lindex, and then exchanged them to euros through Paypal.

When they started to spam me on regular basis I cancelled my account at DX.

[Dartagan Shepherd]

---

Marit Huet wrote:

This new TOS is again showing the residents and business owners that developing business in SL is a risky business. Some dudes at linden lab proven in the past and now again they have totally no respect or consideration for their users.

---

It's always risky doing business in someone elses sandbox as an entire business model. Had said before the rule of thumb on doing business with LL seems to be that if it makes less than 7 figures it's fine.

If a venture starts making 7 figures it gets re-built or acquired by LL.

This has happened with the original exchange once owned by individuals before LL decided to build their own, independent marketplaces and even now with breedables invested in by Phil Rosedale and ex-Lindens.

That's why I don't believe that this exchange mess is entirely about regulation. It's also a profitable move for LL.

The house always wins, even when they refund marketplace ads that you can't cancel.

Not that all exchanges were profitable, but as pointed out by someone else, one exchange in particular was growing while the Lindex remained flat.

Apparently LL thinks changing the world means using us to determine the most profitable business opportunities for them and then taking their piece of it.

Also, they're going to be wanting to use L$ as currency to monetize their new products when the time comes if those products take off. These pesky third party exchanges would only gunk up the works.

Welcome to utopia.

 

[Marit Huet]

2007 is a while ago , but as I remember DX exhange made a restart in 2009.  ( DX exchange was before 2009 known as Dutch Exchange )

I have no expirience with Spam or what soever , beause I never joined their inworld group

 

Nevertheless Services like DX excahnge are my preffered payment methods, Tranfers with Paypal will take often several days, that is why I Canceled my Paypal account. for online payments I prefer to use Ideal 

 

http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2013/05/currency-venues-fight-for-survival/

[Sugami Osumi]

Being one of the babies*cough* I enjoy the benefit of being able to use Paypal to cash out quickly, I had moved from the stupid 5-10day waiting period from LL to VirWox as my exchange provider which would allow me to cash out and have my money within 5mins if not instantly. This is important to me because I use my funds on simple things like going out to dinner or buying something new for the Xbox. So Yesterday at around Noon Time I cashed out using the Paypal Method and I've still not received my payment and i have all ideas they'll hold on to "MY MONEY" long enough to collect interest off it and then finally send it 5 days later. I'll make another post here once they've completed the transaction so everyone can see how horribly slow it is.

[Steph Catseye]

---

Sugami Osumi wrote:

Being one of the babies*cough* I enjoy the benefit of being able to use Paypal to cash out quickly, I had moved from the stupid 5-10day waiting period from LL to VirWox as my exchange provider which would allow me to cash out and have my money within 5mins if not instantly. This is important to me because I use my funds on simple things like going out to dinner or buying something new for the Xbox. So Yesterday at around Noon Time I cashed out using the Paypal Method and I've still not received my payment and i have all ideas they'll hold on to "MY MONEY" long enough to collect interest off it and then finally send it 5 days later. I'll make another post here once they've completed the transaction so everyone can see how horribly slow it is.

---

Welcome to the Baby Club, I am there in there now myself :matte-motes-big-grin-wink:

For what it's worth, I don't think doing withdrawals on the weekend is doing you any favors as LL clearly states that it takes up to 5 Business Days and Saturday / Sunday are no business days. If anything you probably increased your waiting period. Having said that.. I just withdrew my money myself and now I am collecting information (everyone is welcome to contribute experiences) if LL has 1 booking day for Paypal and if yes which day is it or are they booking every day? Let's say their Paypal Day would be Friday and we knew about it then I would withdraw my money on Thursdays and had to wait only 1 day.

 

I sent in a ticket asked for more options, faster service and better transparency. I was surprised to even receive a response and they said that this was already escalated and they are keen to evolve their service. It was most likely a standard response but when there is a standard response for it, they have talked about it and made it a case, so I guess that is a good thing.

 

[Steph Catseye]

---

Nefertiti Nefarious wrote:

There may be 3rd party exchanges still operating ... but LL isn't listing them. 

Try searching Google:  I found

http://www.podex.info/

  and a few others

---

Thank you for that, I have checked into this option after your first response (sorry I meant to reply just now)

For me this is option is worse since their bank is in the USA and their withdrawal limits are meant for smaller amounts but their rates are most definately awesome and people in the USA with smaller payment should look into it.

[Nalates Urriah]

In regard to L$ exchanges everything is in chaos. Some are closing per Linden Lab's direction. Others are demanding the 30 day grace period by the ToS be adhered to, and some are planning to keep trading.

ToS L$ Change Update #2 explains that Hypergrid Business is closely following events and appears to be staying in contact with various exchange operators. I suggest following HB for the latest developments.

The L$ is pretty much a currancy. Any 'game' that is going to allow a two way flow of their i'in-game' currency is going to have to deal with banking laws. RL governments work hard to control currancy markets and monitor the flow of cash. As governements realize virtual currancies as RL currancies we will be dealing with all the same laws. So, I expect things to only get more complex.

In RL ligetimate business people strive to comply with the various laws. It is a complex and expensive effort that drives up the cost of ding business. We are seeing that as several people here post what it is doing to there costs. In RL people are trying to comply and at the same time looking for the most cost effective and efficient way to move money. If they can find a legal loophole, they use it.

Businesses less concerned about complaince than profit move into some of the shadey areas of currancy trading. Illegal activities and the politically unfavored groups also look for ways past the laws.

Finding loopholes legal and illegal becomes a major effort surrounding currancy trading. Most any traveling tourist knows how to use the Black Market for currency trading when they travel.

I expect we will see some of the same behaviors here in SL. Everyone will be looking for loopholes. Hypergrid Business readers will likely have an edge in that hunt.

 

[Dartagan Shepherd]

For some reason the 2 links to the exchange articles over on Hypergrid Business have just gone to 404s today. Not sure what that's about. The rest of the articles are fine.

[Cameron Vasiliov]

Is that website safe? have you tried it? what do you need to verify your account and were you able to withdraw lindens to the website and convert them to EUR/USD? and if it works can you send money directly to bank accounts worldwide?

I've only used Virwox, I've never bought 1 single linden, I only withdraw and paypal of my country is useless and it doesn't allow me to receive money, only it can be used to buy stuff online and I don't think I can use someone else's PP account -.-!

[BW Jinxing]

I just waned toThank Lindeon Lab for moving so swifty on a issue concering money. :cattongue:

 

*goes back to reading the jira*