Is there anyone with still the wrong pics displayed on market place issue ?

[Trinity Yazimoto]

Hi

Since march 2013 i have 4 wrong pics displayed in my market place store. Those ones are not linked to any product page and goes directly to the MP homepage. Its a known issue and a lot of merchants have been complaining about this in the forum and in the JIRA.

We are today juanary 11th 2013. Those 4 wrong pics are still displayed in my Market place, but im wondering if there are still other merchants with still the same problem, since i dont read anymore about this in the forum and since ive read also that it has been fixed for some of us.

On top of being not mine, these pics are also not really pretty (sorry for the ones who made them) or at least they are not matching at all with my vendor pics style. And i dont dare even to make any ad for my MarketPlace store.

On top too, these ones, althought they cant generate any sale since they are not linked to any product page, are still showing in my first 2 pages by relevance.

Since march 2013, ive submited 2 tickets and had always the same answer : "go to the JIRA WEB 45-87". After my first ticket answer, i went there indeed, voted it, and added my comment and more than one.

In autumn 2012, i ve feed some hopes regarding the thread started by ToySoldier, asking to Rodvik Linden to fix some issues for merchants. And ive been enough naive, at first,  to think that since this issue was one in the list mentionned, maybe, maybe, someone, somewhere in Linden Lab offices would have the infinite kindness to start working on it. But well.... No more than for other issues pointed in this thread, this one catched the attention of LL.

In december 2012, thinking that it was more than time that this issue should be fixed, i submited then the second ticket. And of course, i havent been surprised to get the same answer than for my first ticket : go to the JIRA WEB 45-87. I answered a lil upset that yes, i know it already, yes ive added my case since ages now, and i dont want to read a JIRA that i know already but only that these 4 wrong pics dissapeared from my Market Place. I had a polite answer saying me that my frustration is understandable but tickets are not going to the persons who have competences for fixing it and JIRA does.

So today, i opened a new bug track. Some minutres after, guess what ? i had an aswer. sending me where ? To the JIRA WEB 45-87. At this point this Jira starts to give me nausea ! I answered that i know it already, ive already added my case to it etc etc .. and if this person who answered to me was a lil more carefull she could even see my comments there. And that no, i dont just want to read a JIRA.. i want my problem fixed ! 

Here is the second answer i had then : "

Heya Trinity,

You will need to wait for one of the WEB Lindens to triage this issue. I'm afraid I dont know what else to suggest.
I know LL support sends Residents back to the JIRA and that the new JIRAs filed get closed as duplicates of WEB-4587 and that WEB-4587 has had no Linden update since 17th May last year, since stating that the cause was identified and a fix was being worked on."

i answered asking if it was a joke..... im now waiting for this issue is fixed since11 monthes and all they can say to me  is " sit and wait for they fix one day " ? wow !

At this point, it start to be a bit too much for me, and even if i really try hard to keep calm, im not sure i will still achieve to be soon. I m already considering the eventuality of closing my marketplace store (for the first time since i began it) and maybe to look for other grids managed more serioulsy where i could enjoy creating. Really,  really, it start to be too much and trust me, its quite a miracle, i can write this post here without yelling loud and calling LL with all the name of birds i know.

So my questions here, is :

                              ---is there still someone else with the same problem ?

                             --- what else can i do after tickets, jira and bug traking ?

                              --- does anyone know a mail address for MP dev ?

For now, im going to start asking to Rodvik to fix this issue on his mysecondlife feed. 

I dont have a twitter account bec im not attempted by it, but ive read that he has an account there and use it a lot, so i may even create one and call him out there.

Really, really, its the first time i see a company treating its customers and further more its contents creators with so zero respect ! I even never imagined that such zero respect could exist from a company that, after all, need customers for existing. Im still amazed...

 

ETA : and guess what ? the Rodvik mysecondlife feed was open some weeks ago, but closed now, noone can t write on it ..... surprising no ?

[Czari Zenovka]

Yes - the same three mixed listings from April 2012 are still in my MP store.  This is an example:

I have two more listings like this - same shoes/different colors.  I actually know the merchant who created these shoes and contacted her awhile back.  She also had mixed listings in her store but, in her case, she was able to access the mixed listing in her Manage Listings, delete the wrong image, and replace it with hers.  My case is just like yours, Trinity.  The listings default to the MP Home Page and do not show up in Manage Listings.

The last time I sent in a support ticket I was also told to file a jira.  I stated I was one of the first people who contributed to the jira way back when but I *still* had mixed listings.  Was told to submit another jira.  Since I can still access the original one on this issue, I added an update.  That was sometime early Summer 2012.

I've pretty much given up on this issue, but if anyone finds someone else to contact besides support who then says to file a jira and closes the support ticket, I'm open.

 

[Trinity Yazimoto]

Thanks Czari, for your answer. i feel less alone now :smileywink:

At least the wrong pics displayed on your mp are better than the one on mine. 

So since Sir Rodvik has closed his feed, i just sent to him a private message. 

here is a copy : 

" Hi Rodvik 

I write to you because obviously, you dont seem to care a lot about what customers and contents creators are needing and asking to you in the forum. So maybe if i write to you directly you will at least read my request. 
Frist, english is not my native language, so excuse me if my sentences are not really correct. 
I have 4 wrong pics displayed in my market place since march 2012. 
yes, you are reading well, march 2012. 
Maybe you know what day we are today, but we are 11 monthes more. 
Ive already submited 2 tickets, i added my case to the know JIRA (WEB 4587) and commented it several time, i submited also a bug traker today. Tickets and bug tracker sent me back to the jira. Yes i know it, yes ive added my case to it and yes ive commented it several time. So now... 11 monthes later, what do i have to do ? Sit in front my screen and read the jira till death, till maybe one day you start to take this problem seriously ? 
Will you or not fix this issue ? 
Im 44 years old, and in all my life ive never seen so bad respect to customers. 
So can you tell me if this issue will be fixed one day and when ? 
if you have already started to work on it, can you also give updates about this ?

Thanks in advance for your answers. 
As you can see, it starts to be a lil too much and yes im upset, but i wont apologize for this bec imho its really legitimate.

Trinity Yazimoto"

Now if someone has some usefull email adresses, i can use them too. :smileywink:

And sometimes i really reget that english is not my native language, 

[Czari Zenovka]

Woot!  Way to go, Trinity!!!  Interesting Rod closed his feed.  Did you send that message to him in world?

As for prettier pictures...this is the second group of mixed listings I've had.   The first ones I reported on March 28, 2012 were:

1.  Image of one of my welcome mats

     Another merchant listing name/product

     When clicked: Description of a neko outfit

 

2.  Image of another welcome mat

     Another merchant listing name/product

     When clicked: Default to MP Home Page

 

Now here's the "fun" one:

 

3.  Image of yet another welcome mat

     Another merchant name

     Description:  "Hopeless Romantic Seeks Filthy Wh0re" 

WHOA!!!!  That one defaulted to the MP Home Page as well, but doesn't even sound like a MP listing - more like some bad classified ad.

All of the above mixed listings replaced the correct listings, meaning that a customer could not purchase these three items on the MP during this time.

Since this was during the time when the mixed listings had just been identified, after I added to the jira (one can see my addition, complete with photos very early in the jira), I was contacted by Brooke Linden in world and asked to submit a support ticket and let her know when I had.  I did so.  The support ticket was handled by a "Scout" who told me to file an AR and closed the ticket.

Ummmmm, ok.  An AR is for an in world issue and who was I supposed to AR, LL?  I had also stated in the support ticket that I was submitting it per Brooke Linden.  I opened the ticket again, restated I had been directed to open it by Brooke.  This time the same Scout told me to file a jira.  I think it took one or two more of these interchanges, including me contacting Brooke, before I received an apology from Dakota Linden for the way the support ticket had been handled.

On July 28, 2012 I noticed that the above listings were gone.  Yaaayyyyy...errrrr HUH?  That's when the new mixed listings appeared - the three shoe images.  This time the mixed listings didn't replace any of my items, but are duplicates so each original item I created has the correct listing plus a duplicate mixed listing with the shoe image that defaults to the home page.  Ok, this was a "bit" of progress, but if the original mixed listings could be removed...how did I end up with three more????

I can't recall the date, but there was a notice from CTL asking anyone who still had mixed listings in their MP stores to submit a support ticket.  I did so and was told, yep...file a jira.  Since I had already filed a jira on this second crop of mixed listings I did not do so.  Thinking back, I believe it was shortly thereafter that jiras were closed to public view.  I guess anyone who posted on a jira can still see the entire jira, however.  I just looked at the CTL notices at the top of this thread and cannot find that post.  What I *did* find was the CTL Merchant Update of November 18, 2012.  Under the category of "Additional Marketplace Issues" there is the following sub-list:

In addition to the above, the community raised the following issues which we are either investigating or evaluating the best way to address.

• Enhancements for “charging, cannot edit.”
• Price change problems with the cart.
• Listings that have the wrong photos.
• Merchants should be notified when a review is written.
• Categories should be reviewed and updated.
• Make preview image larger when editing a listing.
• Centralized reporting.
• Better association between a demo and a product.
• The ability for Merchants to merchandise their stores.
• Better sharing of products.
• A more detailed explanation of how search works.

 

(Italics mine)

And that's pretty much the last I've heard of this issue until you posted, Trinity.  After viewing the jira again, I'm going to look at the stores of some of the merchants who posted having mixed listings to see if they still have them.

Oh, and your English is very easy to understand...WAY better than my (non-existent) French.

Edit: Grammar/Clarification

[Trinity Yazimoto]

Czari, i need to thank you here a lot, because you put back a smile on my face and i even laughed while i was reading your last post lol even if the facts are sad. Sincere thanks for this, bec i have to confess i was feeling horribly depressed this evening because of this MP issue. Not only bec of the wrong pics but bec i feel i am less than nothing when people doesnt hear a request that has been made since 11 monthes now.

 

So to answer your question about my message to Rodvik, i sent it thru private message in mysecondlife page.

Reading your post it seems that LL are great jokers and looks that they have all been in a clown academy.

On my side they never asked me to do a AR lol... i would have feel even more amazed if its possible if they would have done lmao.

However, 11 montes is already too much. I start now to be over upset and i think we have been already more than patient.

The wrong pics on my mp store are easy to be find since ALL my vendor have the same style and you can see these wrong ones like the nose in the middle of a face. Really, they dont match at all with my style and i would have mind maybe less if they would have been more discret or at least no be in my first 2 pages by relevance. But indeed, this wouldnt make me forget the huge disrespect LL are given to us.

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

 

Reading your post it seems that LL are great jokers and looks that they have all been in a clown academy.

---

To quote one of the General Forum regulars: jejejejejejejejejejejejejeje

I was starting to pull my hair out when I explicitely stated in my support ticket that I had been directed to file it by Brooke Linden and then having the response be to file an AR. :smileymad:

Awww...I'm glad my posts made you smile today. *HUGS*  As a sidenote to one of my former mixed listings (and in hopes of creating some laughter) I have a good friend who, after hearing this mixed listing has been telling me I need to create a "Filthy Wh0re" welcome mat.  She insists it would be a big seller.  I told her that it doesn't really fit into my quasi-Victorian theme of "Czari's Attic."  She said I could open another brand called "Czari's Basement."  ROFL!!!!

I agree - this is a huge issue and the appearance of LL just ignoring it makes them look worse, but considering the typical LL motto of ignore anything we can't easily fix and instead dazzle new shinies in front of residents....par for the course, especially since Rod is off thinking up new games to sell.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

---

Czari Zenovka wrote:

---

 As a sidenote to one of my former mixed listings (and in hopes of creating some laughter) I have a good friend who, after hearing this mixed listing has been telling me I need to create a "Filthy Wh0re" welcome mat.  She insists it would be a big seller.  I told her that it doesn't really fit into my quasi-Victorian theme of "Czari's Attic."  She said I could open another brand called "Czari's Basement."  ROFL!!!!

 

LOL, your friend seems to have great ideas hehehhehe

As for your store, let me know when you reopen it. i do like victorian style a lot, and i cant wait to come and visit it. On top we seems to have the same idea about what an inworld store should be. So i guess i will enjoy the visit. :smileywink:

For now, i still dont have any anwser from Rodvik, so of course, im going to go on.... 11 monthes now its more than enough, and really over my patience's skills.

What im asking is nothing more than legitimate. 

[Pamela Galli]

"3.  Image of yet another welcome mat

     Another merchant name

     Description:  "Hopeless Romantic Seeks Filthy Wh0re" 

WHOA!!!!  That one defaulted to the MP Home Page as well, but doesn't even sound like a MP listing - more like some bad classified ad."

 

That and your friend's idea for a Filthy Wh0re Welcome Mat made me laugh so loud I woke up my husband in the next room! 

[Sassy Romano]

The general concensus among those with database experience is that the data is corrupt beyond simple restoration.

Think of it like this, you have a data table for all MP merchants and in this table is a row with the data about each listing.  In each listing entry is a field which contains a reference to another data table with all the images for all merchants.

Some of those are cross linked.

There's no simple way to determine which are in error and which are not.

Can't simply restore an old version of the data since that would overwrite newer entries which are correct.

Now, if... big IF...they had an old version of the data when it was correct, they could selectively correct the ones which are incorrect but this didn't happen just as a single event, this happened over time so again, at what snapshot point in time, should the recovery data come from?

Don't expect it to be fixed. 

 

[Pamela Galli]

So, Sassy -- evidently there is not even a way to go in and delete them individually?

[Sassy Romano]

---

Pamela Galli wrote:

So, Sassy -- evidently there is not even a way to go in and delete them individually?

---

They could... or they could do some work to permit an edit of it but I wouldn't expect an automated fix and given the timeframe that has elapsed, I wouldn't expect any other fix than probably delete and redo the listing.

Frankly, that's what i'd do, regardless of the rules about re-listing.  That rule exists for a specific reason and common sense would dictate that the circumstances here are outside the normal operation of the marketplace and the failure to offer any other form of resolution is impacting merchants.

People can make their own decisions.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

---

Sassy Romano wrote:

---

Pamela Galli wrote:

So, Sassy -- evidently there is not even a way to go in and delete them individually?

---

They could... or they could do some work to permit an edit of it but I wouldn't expect an automated fix and given the timeframe that has elapsed, I wouldn't expect any other fix than probably delete and redo the listing.

Frankly, that's what i'd do, regardless of the rules about re-listing.  That rule exists for a specific reason and common sense would dictate that the circumstances here are outside the normal operation of the marketplace and the failure to offer any other form of resolution is impacting merchants.

People can make their own decisions.

---

what relisting ? these 4 items are not even in my listing, how can i relist ?. If it was possible i would have done since ages. Those 4 wrong pics are attached to 4 of mine who are normally listed with the good pics in the same time. i mean they appear 2 times, one with the right pic and linked to the right product page, and one with a wrong pic and linked to the MP homepage. Those last ones doesnt appear in my manage listing and i cant neither delete them, neither relist them. 

Indeed the only thing i can do maybe is deleting my whole mp store and recreate it again. what will have as result on top to be a lot of work for me, to delete all my datas about my sales etc. what a big deal, isnt it ?

in the Jira WEB4587, LL came to say : 

 

"CommerceTeam Linden a ajouté un commentaire - 17/mai/12 1:35 PM

We have identified the issue and are working on the fix."

i understand this as yes we have fig out where come from the issue and yes we are currently fixing.

Obviously this was pure lie and nothing more.

As for the market place update, you gave in the JIRA comments (http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Merchants/Marketplace-and-Direct-Delivery-Update/m-p/1462915/message-uid/1462915#U1462915)  i read same. We are now monthes later and we may see how seriousness they put in the fix. 

Im not expecting they will do it automatically. I dont mind the way they do. IM EXPECTING THEY DELETE THESE 4 PICS ON MY MARKETPLACE ONE TIME FOR ALL, no matter the way they do it even if they prefer just use witchcraft or prayer or whatever else. I just want they do THEIR job and they do it good. Not even exceptional, just fine and right. no more

[Trinity Yazimoto]

on top, i will add that i have deleted some oldest items recently. and guess what ?

the ones with the wrong pics but with the same name are still active !

yes, my right item is deleted and nevertheless, the one with the same name but not linked to any product page and with a wrong pics is still showing in my market place. Even after having deleted the normal item with the same name !

i have no more "Marron glacé" item in my manage listing, but awesome ! its still on my market place store with a wrong pic ! ETA : and same for 2 other ones. so 3 on the 4 ones are not related anymore to any item in my listing.

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Pamela Galli wrote:

"3.  Image of yet another welcome mat

     Another merchant name

     Description:  "Hopeless Romantic Seeks Filthy Wh0re" 

WHOA!!!!  That one defaulted to the MP Home Page as well, but doesn't even sound like a MP listing - more like some bad classified ad."

 

That and your friend's idea for a Filthy Wh0re Welcome Mat made me laugh so loud I woke up my husband in the next room! 

---

Oppppssss....my apologies to your husband.

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Sassy Romano wrote:

The general concensus among those with database experience is that the data is corrupt beyond simple restoration.

Think of it like this, you have a data table for all MP merchants and in this table is a row with the data about each listing.  In each listing entry is a field which contains a reference to another data table with all the images for all merchants.

Some of those are cross linked.

There's no simple way to determine which are in error and which are not.

Can't simply restore an old version of the data since that would overwrite newer entries which are correct.

Now, if... big IF...they had an old version of the data when it was correct, they could selectively correct the ones which are incorrect but this didn't happen just as a single event, this happened over time so again, at what snapshot point in time, should the recovery data come from?

Don't expect it to be fixed. 

 

---

What is confusing given this situation is how LL could get rid of the first group of mixed listings on my MP store, only to have another set pop up. 

ETA: Re: your post on relisting - that still wouldn't get rid of the three mixed listings I currently have because they are not overriding any of my products, they are "in addition to."  They also don't show up in my manage listings edit window.

Another ETA: I hadn't read Trinity's post when I initially wrote this - her situation is the same as mine.   From talking to one of my friends who originally had mixed listings, she was able to delete the listing and relist, but the wrong listing did show up in her edit page.

@Trinity:  Given what you just experienced from taking down your correct listing but the wrong mixed listing remaining - I don't even think deleting the entire store to start over would help.  I have a feeling those mixed listings would still be there.  (And thank you re: my in world store.   Yes, we do share the same interest in the type of shop we enjoy.  I keep meaning to come visit your's as well...just have barely been in world lately...but I'll get there!!!)

[Darrius Gothly]

Allow me to expound on the possible paths to solution for the Marketplace Dev Team. Perhaps they'll read this and a light bulb will go on for them. (They'll figure out how to fix it.)

The tables you mention are indeed cross-linked in the sense that the Main Product Table contains references into records in the Product Image table and Product Details table that do not belong to the same Merchant. And therein lay the answer ... "do not belong to the same Merchant".

Assuming that all three tables also contain a field with the Merchant ID then they could run a "Consistency Check" that would look for records in the Main Product table that have either Product Image records with a different Merchant ID and/or Product Details records with a different Merchant ID. This is based on the assumption that both the Image and Details tables contain a duplicate Merchant ID field.

Based on the knowledge that this part of the Database was part of the original Spree system, it stands a good chance of being correct. Good database design would say that the Merchant ID should be part of all three tables so they could rapidly index into each table on its own to find all the records that belong to a specific Merchant.

The net result of the Consistency Check would be a list of Products that have either a mis-matched Image and/or mis-matched Details. They could then take some remedial action to either null out the offending cross-links or somehow enable the Merchant to edit those records.

However, if the Image and Details tables do NOT have duplicate Merchant ID fields then they (and we) are screwed. Even if there ARE duplicate fields though, I suspect they have no intention of attempting a fix as they've not even taken the time to unlock Listing Enhancements that are stuck in "Charging cannot edit" ... and that's a MUCH easier fix to perform. This indicates to me they have no desire or no confidence in their own ability to make global database changes without mucking things up further.

[Sassy Romano]

Darrius, it wouldn't surprise me if the Products table contains an index to MerchantID and the pictures table is indexed against Product ID only

As for easy things to fix, how about the 3 lines of code to send an email when a review is left?

That's such low hanging fruit, it's way past low hanging.  It fell on the ground ages ago, ripened and is almost cider already.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

Thanks Darrius for your insight. in my mind indeed it should work like this, but according to Sassy and other peoples ive asked it can be different. And since my trust for LL's common sense is now more than limited, well i admit so that we cant know really.

I will ask Rodvik in my next letter to him to tell me exactly about how is build the MP, if by miracle i have answer, i will tell you here for sure. Since they said in the Jira that the issue origin was identified in may, he should be able to bring me an answer on this too.

For now.... 

As i said before.... im not asking they do it in an automated way or any other way specially. I dont mind the way they will use. But i know for sure they still can do it manually. 

So what im asking to Rodvik, is that he ask someone in his company to do the job. Its reasonnable and well thought out managing. Its also honnest managing. Im not asking more.

So if they need we send them more details about the wrong pics (what page, what names etc).... to be more easy and more fast, they may ask anytime.... im sure all that all wounded merchants will be happy to bring their contribution to this work. 

But they need to stop to do like nothing is happening and ignore us. This is no more than insulting and this cant be accepted.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

Btw, can someone tell me if there is a way to delete completly my mp store ?

if i delete my listing i m strongly suspecting that i will sill have these 4 wrong listing attached to my account and so i will be stuck for recreating a new store.

So is there a "complete delete" button somewhere ?

[Darrius Gothly]

---

Sassy Romano wrote:

Darrius, it wouldn't surprise me if the Products table contains an index to MerchantID and the pictures table is indexed against Product ID only

As for easy things to fix, how about the 3 lines of code to send an email when a review is left?

That's such low hanging fruit, it's way past low hanging.  It fell on the ground ages ago, ripened and is almost cider already.

---

Driven by my stupid curiosity, I've begun digging into the Spree documentation, the database schema and what features/functions the base model of Spree supports. One thing that leapt out at me immediately is that Spree supports something called Product Variants. This allows you to define a base product, then also specify variants that can include color, size and various other custom attributes.

I also notice that Products include not only a date that specifies when they are first available, but also a date after which the product is no longer available. Now THAT would have been a handy thing to provide for Merchants wishing to run time-limited promotions, huh?

Just from my very brief exploration, it appears that massive sections of Spree were either disabled, removed or hidden .. and a lot of those are things that would have been very pertinent to selling in Second Life. It's a shame they didn't actually develop it like a real eCommerce site and use the full functionality provided by Spree. If they had, we would have had a much more useful Marketplace.

[Darrius Gothly]

---

Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

Btw, can someone tell me if there is a way to delete completly my mp store ?

if i delete my listing i m strongly suspecting that i will sill have these 4 wrong listing attached to my account and so i will be stuck for recreating a new store.

So is there a "complete delete" button somewhere ?

---

To my knowledge Trinity, there is no way to completely delete your entire Store. Once created, it will always exist. Of course you can completely empty it of your own products, but I suspect the same as you ... the cross-linked products will still exist when someone lists your Product offerings.

[Couldbe Yue]

I have one corrupt listing that had vanished but now seems to be back.  I think I'll keep it as my store mascot.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

well really, even if a loooooot of humour i cant keep what is displayed on my first mp store page... Really....

its nothing more but sabotage. How can i do ad for it with this ?

[Couldbe Yue]

have you tried submitting a ticket with a screenshot of the offending item and asking for it to be removed?  my other stores had theirs removed after I listed them on the jira but I think that they've probably closed that, so a ticket might work.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

i said in the op what ive already tried, so yes ive submited tickets . i always had the same answer : the pp who read tickets are not competent for this kind of things and they sent me to the JIRA WEB 4587.

i answered each time that yes i know this jira since long, and if they read it themselves carefully they can even notice ive commented it several times. 

they answered apologizing but they are not the persons in charge for mp maintenance. All i ask is to be put in contact with someone who work for the mp maintenance. 

I was even ok to delete my whole store and redo it but i assume that these wrong listing will keep attached to my account. so it will be useless.

So now, its really too much for me, im now starting envisaging im going to close all my SL accounts. 

i can accept the idea im crooked but not with my consent. Since im still give to SL 100 usd per monthes this mean im paying for being crooked and this cant be ok for me.

For now, im trying to get an answer from Rodvik or at least everyone from LL. I wont give up easily but im not stupid either and if it ends like a Don Quichote fight, i will be sad but i will close everything bec no, no and no, im not likely to pay for being crooked.