Advertising, Marketing, PR, and all that

[Ilithios Liebknecht]

Howdy folks,

I am wondering what you find is the best way to get people to realize your product exists? I make full featured adventure games, and it doesn't help that most people in SL don't even think of adventure games as something there is to do in SL, so even the people who would be interested in them don't search for them. In fact the only others doing anything even similar to me that I am aware of is Madpea.

I have tried in world billboards. This is a total waste. No one ever clicks them

I have tried classified ads. This is pointless because of how it determines which ads are displayed. Anyone searching for games sees nothing but casinos in the classifieds because casinos bid 40,000L for their ads. Of course casinos are not even slightly relevant to people who want adventure games and yet I can outright search for "adventure game" in search and see nothing but casinos in the classified ads. Might as well be ads for viagra  with as much relevence those have to the search. But that's how classifieds work, so those are useless.

I have a fishing game on my sim. That brings people in to come take my L and do nothing else, they don't even talk to each other, doubt they're even looking at their screens most of the time, and they're certainly not interested in anything except clicking their own rods repeatedly.

I have versions on MP and made it featured on the front. That doesn't do anything.

I have posts in the games category of the forums here. No replies, and few views.

I'm running out of ideas here.

P.S. I keep seeing the exact same places every day all the time in the events listing of the search. That seems like a way to get seen, however the event posting rules say that "events" that are nothing more than advertisements won't be tolerated and yet they clearly are tolerated. Toy Brothel has an "event" going 24 hours a day every day and this event is really nothing more than them being open. I don't know how to get in that featured section anyway. I don't see a featured option when posting an event.

[Pamela Galli]

I don't know, but maybe have some bloggers try it out, see if they would review it. You can offer to pay them to do so. Could have a special event and put it in events. 

[Ilithios Liebknecht]

Oh sorry, forgot to mention I've tried those too.

I made up a press release and sent it to bloggers. The first thing I found was that 99% of SL bloggers just write about clothes. I sent it out to several of the other blogs that seemed to be still active, but haven't heard back from them. I have not offered to pay them. That seems a little underhanded.

I have been regularly holding events at the sim for the last month. Barely anyone shows up. I have decided to stop having events as of this week because it's not worth it.

[Polenth Yue]

Passive promotion can do a lot in Second Life. By passive, I mean you make sure everything links to your place. Your profile mentions it, you have a clear link in your picks, and your forum signature has it. Then you just take part in stuff. Join communities, go to events, make friends. People have to know you exist to support you. It also takes some of the pressure off you, as it isn't about trying to promote all the time.

I'd also suggest considering attractions that aren't about the games, and aren't something people will farm for Lindens (because that attracts bots more than real visitors). People like nice landscaping, museums, art... anything that can bring people in without too much time commitment. If you have those already, consider some promotion that focuses on what a great place to visit it is as a whole, and by the way, try the murder mysteries. I sold a lot more stuff when I could afford land to put other things on, because the other things were often the main lure, with the things for sale being treated like souvenirs.

[Spica Inventor]

The best way to get noticed is to not charge too much for your products. Simple as that. ;-)

There is a pride thing disease that peeps often times suffer from and not just on SL. So they sell their products for way too much, and much fewer sell because of that. When few sell, lots of crucial 'free' advertisement is lost. In the long term, 'inexpensive' makes more money and increases popularity. Win/win.

[Ilithios Liebknecht]

Polenth - Yes, that may be a good idea. I need to get people to add the place their picks and profile. I know several fans of the games do have it in their picks, but should figure out how to get more. I have found an advertising agency that you pay and they find people who put your place in their picks in exchange for pay, but I don't know how well that works. Maybe I should give it a shot, and/or think of other ways to get the games in people's picks and profile. I will definitely look into that.

Spica - Yes, I agree with that completely, and the games are not expensive at all. Games this involved of this quality should be at least 1300L, probably more, but they are only 190L in world. This doesn't even cover tier costs of course, but making money isn't really the aim.

[Pamela Galli]

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Ilithios Liebknecht wrote:

Oh sorry, forgot to mention I've tried those too.

I made up a press release and sent it to bloggers. The first thing I found was that 99% of SL bloggers just write about clothes. I sent it out to several of the other blogs that seemed to be still active, but haven't heard back from them. I have not offered to pay them. That seems a little underhanded.

I have been regularly holding events at the sim for the last month. Barely anyone shows up. I have decided to stop having events as of this week because it's not worth it.

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Underhanded to pay for people's time?  I don't pay bloggers, or even use them much, but I certainly don't have a problem giving them merchandise if they are going to take the time to blog them. Why should someone do that for free for a total stranger? 

 

 

[Pamela Galli]

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Ilithios Liebknecht wrote:

 

Spica - Yes, I agree with that completely, and the games are not expensive at all. Games this involved of this quality

should

be

at least

1300L, probably more, but they are only 190L in world. This doesn't even cover tier costs of course, but making money isn't really the aim.

---

If you have good reason to believe that games of this quality should be a certain price, then make them that price. That communicates something to prospective buyer about the value you put on it. It only works if it really is a good product though.  

I will tell you a story. When I very first started selling on the marketplace, I had these simple coffee tables for 49L. No one ever bought them. Finally, one of them sold! And that's when I noticed I had accidentaly priced it at 490L. 

[Pamela Galli]

Also, I was going to look at your games, but no link in your signature. Anyone curious about mine can just click.

 

PS I tried looking up your marketplace store. You don't have one. 

 

Why are you asking for tips on how people can find you?

[Polenth Yue]

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Ilithios Liebknecht wrote:

Polenth - Yes, that may be a good idea. I need to get people to add the place their picks and profile. I know several fans of the games do have it in their picks, but should figure out how to get more. I have found an advertising agency that you pay and they find people who put your place in their picks in exchange for pay, but I don't know how well that works. Maybe I should give it a shot, and/or think of other ways to get the games in people's picks and profile. I will definitely look into that.

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You've misunderstood. I'm not talking about other people's profiles/picks/forum signatures. I'm talking about yours. You don't have it in your signature here. If you do have it in your inworld profile/picks already, it doesn't hurt to see whether you can improve how you've done it. Are you managing to get across the atmosphere of your area? Are you describing the game in a way that really captures it? As an example, look at book descriptions. Books don't just say "come read this murder mystery". They give enough of the plot to get readers interested and explain the tone (noir, cozy, etc). You're selling an experience rather than a practical product, so how you describe it really matters.

I'm also not taking about paying people to add it to picks or anything like that, but just heading out and doing stuff that is unrelated to promoting your games. Go have fun, then consider why it was fun, so you can use that to tweak your area.

[Ilithios Liebknecht]

Pamela - I also agree with this that setting the price too low will make the item seem cheap. Often people will up the lower end of the range on price in search just to not have to sort through all the junk. I put a lot of thought into the pricing of the game, compared it to other games, etc and I think 190L is the perfect price for it. When I said they should be 1300L I was talking about in RL a game of similar quality would be at least the equivalent to that in RL money, but in SL people undervalue everything and I doubt I would sell even one at that price.

As far as paying bloggers, it is a little underhanded to pay them yes. While it's not explicitly stated, the assumption in that kind of a situation would be that they are getting paid for a positive review. Now, I am perfectly willing to give them the game for free to review of course, but handing over payola doesn't seem right. If they are really a blogger interested in blogging about the best Second Life has to offer, then they would be interested in writing about my games for free. If they want payment, they are not a blogger but rather just an advertising company in disguise.

Good call on the signature. I have not used the forums much as you can tell. I have rectified that situation. I do have an MP store. I would be interested in knowing how you searched for it that yielded no results. Perhaps others may try the same method. In any case, the store is here: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/179371

Polenth - While of course I talk about the games in my profile and have the location first in my picks, I am no marketing expert hence this post. I suppose I could pay someone to write better descriptions for me in my picks, but at the end of the day I am only one person and I don't have time any more to do anything fun. I am far too busy creating new games and supporting and promoting the ones I have out.

[Pamela Galli]

Your link needs to be to the marketplace. 

You need pics of the HUD and anything else that comes with it. I don't know what you are actually selling, but good you have a demo. 

I personally do not use bloggers often. I pay for advertising in magazines, but those are about 15K. But if I did want someone to blog my stuff and I was new and unknown, I would want to compensate them in some way for publishing a review. I don't expect people to give their time for free.

people are always looking for something to do with friends in SL and will pay for something fun. A 200L game is not going to pique anyone's interest. They will assume it is lame. And maybe it is, I would not know. 

[Tamara Artis]

There is a long way from "I want to market my products" through "I am doing some marketing" to "I found a marketing method that works best for me". In SL, many merchants go through that way all alone.

It means you will have to sit down, do some research and slowly start to test different marketing methods, one by one, in order to find what works best for you as a person and for your specific products.

For me, what proved good with one business did not work well with another one but one thing I know, what works great with every one is to cover as many methods as I can. But I'm human not robot, lazy human to be honest lol

Start with your friends and random people, reserve one day during the week when you will make your avatar look great (great means hot, sexy, stylish, modern stuff bought at well known places) and go out, dance, explore, try to find some busy places and meet new people. Attract people, make friends, have fun. Real fun. Every person you meet will ask you what you do in SL and you can say that you create adventure games. Sounds great! Invite your new friend to try it with you. Or just send them a copy of the game. If they message you later to say they have tried it and its great, or you see them at this certain place - great, means the game is well accepted! If not, means you will have to work more on the game or find some new people to play it. Is it one person or two people game? 

I did not find this info on any of your marketplace products or here in this thread. Do I play this game alone or can have fun with my friend, boyfriend, lover? Is the game good to plan it for a fun date with someone? Or to spend a family afternoon together? Can I play it more than one time? Do I have to pay 200L$ for each person that wants to play the game? Do I get some kind of reward at the end? 

Why do each of your games have same text? Only first sentence is different, rest is just copy/paste. You are losing so much there, think of how many keywords you missed to use. 

Why don't you have some website where I can find out more about the games, maybe read a tutorial, see some interesting snapshots? Read comments from people who played it? Or find out what made you go into this adventure? How hard is to create this kind of a game? Besides Madpea and you, is there anyone else doing something like that? 

Is the game appropriate for kids (does it have anything to do with sex? sex is fun!) 

 

[SAULGOODiE]

Have you tried any bloggers/VideoReviewers or forums that focus on Adventure games and not SL in particular? I think a lot of great advice has been given on how to promote your game inworld (direct connections with other residents is always the best way, even if you spend an hour being "productive" posting adverts about your game on billboards and forums, you have a better chance gaining and retaining insterested customers by just meeting other people inworld, so the previous suggestion to take some time off and simply "Network" yourself is incredibly important, any IRL business man will tell you this), but if your games would appeal to folks outside of SL you might manage to strum up some interest with gamers outside of SL. Just a suggestion because it seems like the normal routes aren't working for you! 

Also RAISE THAT PRICE!!! If your price/slash approach is not providing a windfall of customers you should absolutely increase your rates, it will give your game the appearance of having more value and being a better product. It is a very common mistake to undercharge for services thinking only a small price tag will trigger purchases, and while for some shoppers this is true I feel like in your field (selling experiences is much different than selling furniture or clothes inworld), at least if you charges 1000L instead of 100L you might get more return on your end. Also when I purchase something for 1000+L$ I tend to remember its in my inventory more than something much cheaper, I don't know what that means psychologically but I feel like its a common concept. 

[Darren Scorpio]

I find Facebook to be a very effective source. Make a page for your business if you don't already have one and make sure you keep it up to date and interact often to build up an audience. 

[Ilithios Liebknecht]

Some good responses here thank you.

Pamela - Good idea with the picture of the HUD in the game environment. I think a link to the location in world is more valuable than a link to the marketplace. As you mentioned, a lot of people won't understand what the games are until they have tried the demo. People who are familiar with adventure games need no explanation to understand what the games are; they'll get it right away. For others I could write 20 pages of description and they still wouldn't really know what I'm talking about until they show up and play the demo/tutorial game. Therefore my #1 priority is getting people to the location where the games take place so they can see it for themselves rather than sending them to an MP page that is guaranteed to be less informative than just playing the demo game.

You say a 200L game wouldn't interest anyone, but I can't see any evidence to support the fact that people ever pay much more than that for games in SL.  Can you name even one game that costs much more than that to play? The Fantasia Experience costs 250L but that's the highest priced game I even know about, and obviously that's not high priced. Of course I would love to think that raising the price would bring more players, but I don't see any evidence that's the case.

 

Tamara - Yes, I am trying a variety of methods. I am just trying to get ideas for even more methods to try. While the games are essentially single player games in that what one person does doesn't affect the state of anyone else's game, people do them together all the time. Since the gameplay is figuring out what to do and how to do it, working together is certainly possible and makes the games much easier to complete. I think that it could be a fun datish thing to do if both people are gamers. However, rarely does anyone complete a game in only one day. A few have, but most people take days or even weeks to complete the games. They are full length games. I will try to get that information in the MP descriptions somehow although honestly, almost no sales come from MP. About 5 people a day buy the game on average and almost all of them buy it in world. I have made 1 actual sale on MP, and 11 people total have got the free demo from there. I will certainly revise the listing to see if that helps but it doesn't seem MP is where my focus should be. It's not moving there.

Have a web site here: http://www.standoffsoftware.com/ the games are mostly appropriate for kids. There's drinking of alcohol by the player in the latest one, but no sex type stuff.

 

Saulgoodie - First of all, you have a new bar in Keswick right where my latest game takes place! You probably see people walking around there playing it all the time.

I will try my best to go around and make friends with people. I was never the type who just picks up friends wherever I go, so that might actually be the most difficult kind of marketing I could do lol. But I'll try.

Yes, I agree with you about trying to get people outside of SL. I tried once a week ago, posting on an adventure game forum and even offered to give people the game for free if they mentioned they came from that forum! and the forum owners banned me from the forum for the post lol I love it. They like adventure games so much they make a forum dedicated to them, but they hate people who make adventure games so much they ban them from the forum. In any case, I probably should continue to see if there is some interest from people outside of SL. I will put some time into that.

While I do agree completely with you about the psychological impact of a more expensive product seeming higher quality to people because they paid more for it, see my response to Pamela above. I just don't see anyone doing anything similar in SL charging very much more than I am and I've looked a lot. If I had, I would have priced it higher.

 

Darren - I have never understood how to market things on Facebook. I have gone all out with the Facebook thing with previous projects in my RL companies, and it doesn't seem to go anywhere. Apparently I just don't have the "Facebook Marketing" skill. Well, I have no marketing skill, but that method has proven especially fruitless in the past.

[Tamara Artis]

I have an idea you can try for in-world; 

First I would update the buildings and city streets, then I would change the windlight into night or some darker one. Have street lamps be the only lighted areas on the streets. Create rain in one area, place different city sounds all around, rezz some garbage, old crates, broken doors and benches... make it so that as soon as the person lands they get that certain feeling of danger and mistery. Make them ask what the f.. happened here? Make them want to hide but at the same time sneak around and discover whats around the corner. 

Remove those mesh avatars and hire real people to hang out there, let them live in those appartments for rent, make it so that only the hottest avatars can be hired. Give them assignments (for example make it so that hired people need to have an active Facebook or Flickr account, make photos while playing your games and post them on their social sites), hire more people to check them and make sure they work well, create some artificial traffic that will attract the real one (it is no different than placing those ugly fishing things that attract only noobs and bots).

Organize a hunt or a photo contest at your place, to celebrate "the xy day" and advertise it all around. Please remember that when it comes to events it doesn't matter what kind of event you are having, look at it like one more chance to post everywhere and market your product. Even this post here is great advertising opportunity, so far you have over 300 people who saw that you sell games. 

[Ilithios Liebknecht]

Tamara - I will see what I can do about making the parcel more atmospheric. I don't much care for sims that are always dark. That's just a personal preference. I don't much care for walking around in the dark all the time. Looking for a windlight that would be good though, and will look at other details and so forth.

Can't really replace the NPC's with real people. Real people would occasionally want to log off or at least move and that would break the games. I have given some thought to making the NPC's bots but decided against it for a few reasons. Bots can also crash, I've seen it lots of times. And then the games would be unplayable. But the main reason is that I would like the NPC's to be very easily distinguishable from other people at the parcel. Otherwise people will run around clicking everyone in sight not knowing for sure who is part of the game and who isn't. Best to keep the game elements easily recognizable as such.

I will try events again. I just need to figure out how to do them so people show up I guess. I tried events for quite a while and had almost no one showing up. It was a waste of time planning them. I'd really be interested to know how those people get their events constantly featured on the front of search. They're not even good events. Almost all of them are just advertisements and not an event at all. And it's always the same places featured there (Wet Willies, Toys Brothel,  Heartbreak Sex Resort, Jinxies Gentlemen's Club, etc) ALWAYS the same places ALL the time day in and day out, and none of them are having real events! They're just advertisements pretending to be events and they are featured on the front page of search constantly. What do they do to achieve that? I would really like to know.

[Pamela Galli]

The reason to have a link to MP is that when people click the link they are curious to see what you sell, but they are not logged into SL, they are usually not curious enough to log in, just to take a look at your marketplace store -- or they are at work or on a mobile device where they can not log in. This is why it is important to explain in detail and include pictures of the HUD etc. 

So your link is only for people who are logged in or can log in or want to log in, whereas a MP link is for everyone.

 

[SAULGOODiE]

Yes! When I rented the property Rey let me know there was a game going on nearby! It's true at any given time theres 1-3+ people in the sim playing the game, occasionally one will wander in looking for a clue ;-D

I wish you all the best luck in your future marketing and business endevors, hope to see you around sometime 

[Pamela Galli]

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Ilithios Liebknecht wrote:

Some good responses here thank you.

Pamela

- Good idea with the picture of the HUD in the game environment.

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Thank you -- Yes, much better now with the added pictures!