Liisa Runo Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 One of the biggest problems in mainland: Lack of autoreturn / people to clean the parcels from random mess.Only reason i can think of for not having autoreturn is that when you are in the process of changing the ownership of land and want the objects to stay there while you are changing the group of the objects. Been in SL about 3 years and only had to do it once. And for almost region size land, it took about an hour.Been wondering why so many parcels dont have autoreturn enabled. If some of you know more reasons to not have autoreturn, please tell me, i really want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peewee Musytari Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Because you want to allow anyone to rezz objects and you don`t want to add them all to a group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Laval Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Liisa Runo wrote: One of th Been wondering why so many parcels dont have autoreturn enabled. If some of you know more reasons to not have autoreturn, please tell me, i really want to know. It's off by default, people can rez objects, even when group is only allowed to rez, wearing different group tags, if you set auto return after allowing anyone in the group to rez anytime, autoreturn is going to cause a big old mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liisa Runo Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I always allow everyone to rez objects on all my lands. That dont mean there should not be autoreturn. While i do want everyone to be able to rez, i dont want the objects of strangers to stay there forever. Autoreturn save me the trouble of cleaning the lands manually all the time. Is there reason for wanting objects of strangers to stay to the end of time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latisha Pexie Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 On my mainland parcel I have rezzing turned off because only a couple of people know about it. However, my homestead I have rezzing/build on with no auto-return. My reason is I allow my friends to use my parcel if they wish. There may be times when they wish to build and aren't able to get back to it for a week. If something stays too long I'll IM them. It may be more work for me but that's how I have chosen to do things. Granted this is on a private region and not mainland, so the traffic is much lower, but I think that if I had my primary land on the mainland I would choose to do it the same way. It is better than it used to be, but group space is at a premium and is not always feasible for someone to join a group just to rez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liisa Runo Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Alright, thanks all. To solve the giant messy problem with technical changes i must think hard. How about a check in the server code: If land has nonGroup/nonOwner objects and no one with return ability to that land has visited the parcel for a month. The autoreturn get automagically set to 5min. What you guys think? Anyone have better solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 On my previous mainland parcel i had autoreturn disabled because I wanted one friend to be able to leave an item & she might not have been able to stay in the land group. (This was when we could only have 25 groups.) With my new property, it started as group land & the other owners had already set items to other groups besides the land group. When they abandoned their half of the land & I reclaimed it & changed the land group for it, I then turned autoreturn on & accidentally returned all of my own stuff to my Lost & Found. If you can set rezzing only to your land group & enable autoreturn for a 5 minutes or less, it will save you problems with people leaving items on your land later. I once was out of SL for about a week & came back to find someone selling cars on my lot. Another time, someone left an object somewhere near my propety that kept rezzing more objects onto my land even after I had sent back all their stuff & banned the owner. That's what I get for allowing people to bring objects (such as motorcyles or horses) onto my land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauline Darkfury Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 It's worth noting here that autoreturn is the only reliable way to keep junk objects away without manual policing. Both no-rez and no-object-entry do not keep junk objects off your parcel, particularly on mainland. If it were up to me, it would be impossible to leave autoreturn set to 0 on any mainland parcel for more than 24 hours (long enough to change ownership or group if you need to do that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peewee Musytari Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Liisa Runo wrote: Alright, thanks all. To solve the giant messy problem with technical changes i must think hard. How about a check in the server code: If land has nonGroup/nonOwner objects and no one with return ability to that land has visited the parcel for a month. The autoreturn get automagically set to 5min. What you guys think? Anyone have better solution? Which mainland are you talking about, the parts owned by LL or privately owned by other residents? If you mean privately owned plots, then good luck getting that cleaned up. You can`t make rules for what other people do on their own land. Get Phoenix Viewer and derender it all...problem solved lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liisa Runo Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Peewee Musytari wrote: Which mainland are you talking about, the parts owned by LL or privately owned by other residents? If you mean privately owned plots, then good luck getting that cleaned up. You can`t make rules for what other people do on their own land. Get Phoenix Viewer and derender it all...problem solved lol Im talking about both. LL is currently working on technology to make all the future abandoned lands automatically enable autoreturn, and rest of the LL parcels that lack autoreturn will slowly be fixed when people AR the mess in them. LL enable autoreturn when they come to clean the mess. Nope, i can't make rules about what people do with their lands, but i can create feature request to jira and maybe LL make rules that benefit everyone. Or atleast most of us. (not getting phoenix, i don't give my password and inventory access to residents) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latisha Pexie Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Having a messy land is not an ARable offence. While it may be unsightly to you, it is not up to any resident how another resident makes use of the land that they pay for. As long as the objects rezzed are not in violation of the land's maturity rating a resident may be as cluttered as they wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauline Darkfury Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Latisha Pexie wrote: Having a messy land is not an ARable offence. While it may be unsightly to you, it is not up to any resident how another resident makes use of the land that they pay for. As long as the objects rezzed are not in violation of the land's maturity rating a resident may be as cluttered as they wish. That's true, but also entirely misses a major issue with parcels which don't have autoreturn set on mainland. If the landowner doesn't pay attention to them, rarely logs into SL, or whatever, they end up filling with junk which causes problems for other landowners and harms their ability to use their land. Some of the junk objects may well be against ToS, but can be extremely difficult to get something done about them if the landowner doesn't act responsibly and either police the usage of their land or enable autoreturn. A non-exhaustive list of issues which can be caused by junk objects, cause serious harm to adjacent parcels, and are difficult to get resolved if the landowner is nowhere to be found: Encroachment Particle spew Excessively chatty objects Excessive glow Excessively laggy scripts The main issue is normally not with objects owned by the landowner, but with the random junk which will accumulate regardless of no-rez and no-object-entry permissions (neither of those prevent junk from random people accumulating). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liisa Runo Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Not only about maturity of the objects. The usual stuff i see is: copybotted noob sculpt that scream and spew particle blood to neighbouring parcels. Vehicles that are stuck on engine noise loop and spread particle smoke around. All kinds of griefer cube attacks with nazi flag textures or stuff like that. Copybotted items set for sale. Random noob freebie house partially on neighbouring parcels. Pyramid scheme objects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peewee Musytari Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Liisa Runo wrote: Not only about maturity of the objects. The usual stuff i see is: copybotted noob sculpt that scream and spew particle blood to neighbouring parcels. Vehicles that are stuck on engine noise loop and spread particle smoke around. All kinds of griefer cube attacks with nazi flag textures or stuff like that. Copybotted items set for sale. Random noob freebie house partially on neighbouring parcels. Pyramid scheme objects. I agree that all those things are AR worthy and that would be the thing to do to get them removed. Its the part about creating a system that automatically turns on auto-return on someone else`s land that I disagree with. They pay the tier fee whether they have been there in the last month or not & they have the right not to have their settings changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liisa Runo Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Can you think of some better technical solution to the problem? Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Maybe some additional tier bonuses, sorta like the current 10% bonus for Group-owned land. Enable auto-return at 5 minutes or less for an additional 10% bonus. Don't restrict access to a group or whitelist: another 10% bonus. Don't use IP+H/W hash blacklist bans: another 10% bonus. (Yeah, I know that doesn't exist. But it could.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latisha Pexie Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Well.. My opinion stands. If you have something that is ARable such as encroachment or if you see a copybotted item then by all means AR it if you have to. But as someone else said, if they are paying their tier then you cannot force someone to have whatever land settings you would like them to have. If they choose to use a ton of particles it's their choice. You can AR for unfair use of resources but, as you said, it is unlikely that you will get a result from that. If you want that much control over land you are probably better off in a private region. It all comes down to the fact that you cannot force people to act responsibly. Until/unless LL decides to enact script limits there is not much that can be done about that. Some people find particles pretty. You can always disable them on your viewer. If it's copybotted AR it. But you cannot force someone who is paying their tier to turn on auto return. For abandoned land I agree it's a good idea but when someone owns the land it is up to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liisa Runo Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 And in my opinion people should take responsibilty of their land to some level. Either by enabling autoreturn or manually cleaning the land. Unfortunately there is plenty of land owners who do neither. And their parcel become problem to everybody else in the area. Over and over again despite LL coming there once a week to clean the mess. LL dont have enough staff to babysit us fast enough, so some technical solution is needed. Together we must think of some techical solution that dont affect too many of us. Hopefully only affecting people who dont take care of their land while keeping the lands of friendly people untouched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwalyphi Korpov Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauline Darkfury Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Qwalyphi Korpov wrote: /me reads covenant of mainland parcel....... There is no Covenant provided for this Estate. I think you're asking people to be considerate, not be responsible. Rather than asking for a technical solution why not ask your neighbor for that authority to remove anything from their land that you object to? No, it's asking them to be both considerate and responsible. A responsible landowner takes steps to ensure that their land does not cause issues for other landowners. The problem with land permissions as far as asking them for responsibility to return problem objects on adjacent land is that it has to be done via group abilities, and there's not enough group slots to make that a workable solution for many (even with 42 slots). Also, many landowners will not be happy to give out that ability to neighbours unless they know them well. It also doesn't help when it comes to semi-abandoned land (still owned and tier paid, but the owner is never in-world or just doesn't care). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwalyphi Korpov Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauline Darkfury Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Qwalyphi Korpov wrote: Sure, that's one definition of 'responsible landowner.' Under that definition there's plenty of irresponsibility in the mainland. It's not the Lindens definition though. They set out two responsibilities: Follow the TOS Pay your tier. Since they don't ask for more than that it doesn't seem reasonable to have them enforce more than that. I'd like my neighbors to be considerate too but I'm not expecting the Lindens to force them to be. That's why the private estates are so successful. Well, those are more obligations that they can't avoid. The issue with irresponsible landowners and junk on their land does in fact break ToS if it impacts negatively on adjacent landowners being able to use their land (not talking ugly here, talking spam, encroachment, unfair use of resources, harassment, etc). Ok, it's arguably other people breaking ToS on their land, but one could argue that the landowner bears some responsibility for that if they do not either have autoreturn set or actively police the usage of their land for cases of abuse. The underlying issue is that these problems generate a large support load for LL as the estate managers of mainland. If they were to either require some form of autoreturn on all mainland parcels or gave an incentive to set autoreturn, they could both significantly reduce their support load and improve customer satisfaction with mainland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marianne McCann Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I don't necessarily think an automated solution is the best solution. That said, I use Auto Return on my own lands, and I highly suggest it to others. In some ways, I wish it was made a simpler part of the viewer, and people were better educated about how it works & will improve their Second Life experience. IMO, nothing works better than educating people about how it can make things that much better for them and their neighbors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauline Darkfury Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Marianne McCann wrote: I don't necessarily think an automated solution is the best solution. That said, I use Auto Return on my own lands, and I highly suggest it to others. In some ways, I wish it was made a simpler part of the viewer, and people were better educated about how it works & will improve their Second Life experience. IMO, nothing works better than educating people about how it can make things that much better for them and their neighbors. Yes, a strong educational campaign by LL to educate landowners who have problem parcel and new landowners could go a long way towards addressing the issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prokofy Neva Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 The biggest reason I hear is that people have friends build for them and they don't want items to return. Of course, they could group their land, put their friends in the group, keep it closed, and then put autoreturn on, but that's too many steps. If you have a closed group, then you have the chore of always having to invite people into it and make sure the roles don't get messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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