Disappearing House???

[Pamela Galli]

This is a new one for me. A customer contacted me today, two weeks after buying a house, and said it keeps vanishing. It does not stay rezzed more than a few hours. Locking it does not help. It does not go to her lost and found, just vanishes. The house is not temp rez. She has plenty of prims available. The land is group owned. Return is set to 0. No one has edit rights.  The house is one object, rezzed with landscaping from a rez box, but only the house disappears. Nothing else has vanished like this.

I went out and looked at the parcel, there are a lot of sim or parcel surrounds, it is in a skybox at 100m.

Also she says she has a friend who owns the same house, has the same problem, though not on the same sim, and he has never contacted me about it, and neither has anyone else. I keep my model rezzed in the store all the time. 

I just have no clue, have never heard of anything like this. 

Please, techy people, do you have any idea about this?

 

The parcel is here:  http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Pesok/52/127/102

 

On the world map I can see this filling up the whole sim: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0f1891v9gzrfhyw/Screenshot%202017-01-15%2020.17.18.png?dl=0  

 

[Pamela Galli]

No one? I just can't think of a thing!

[Alwin Alcott]

isn't somebody in the same group deleting the stuff?

group owned things and delete powers don't always mean items get returned.

 

And if it's returned together with other items, you know it can be a item with a total random name.

[Pamela Galli]

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Alwin Alcott wrote:

isn't somebody in the same group deleting the stuff?

group owned things and delete powers don't always mean items get returned.

 

And if it's returned together with other items, you know it can be a item with a total random name.

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Thanks Alwin. Apparently only the house disappears. I don't think the house is group owned, just the land. (Can copyable things be group owned? ) She said no one else had edit rights -- that was the first thing I thought of -- the only thing, really: someone was deleting it.

[Qie Niangao]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

 

Also she says she has a friend who owns the same house, has the same problem, though not on the same sim, and he has never contacted me about it, and neither has anyone else.

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This part is especially baffling, and adds some extra urgency to finding a solution.

Unless we can be absolutely sure there's no script in any element of the house's linkset, one would have to suspect a call to llDie().

Actually... even if the object itself doesn't contain a script, another object with the same owner could, under specific, pre-arranged circumstances, push a script to the house object to delete it. I can make up a story where the owner adds a script that enables that function (possibly by adding a scripted link).

Or, similarly... does the house come packaged in a rez box of some sort? If so, do these owners leave that rez box in place while their houses are rezzed? Is it possible to inspect the source for the rezzer script, in case there's some rare bug?

[EDIT: Oh, I see you mentioned in the OP that the house and landscaping are rezzed from a rez box, and it appears you're using the CasperTech version, which one would suppose safe. There's no way to inspect it, but seems unlikely a problem would go unnoticed. I guess I'm back to wondering if these particular owners link stuff with their houses, or add a script... or if this particular model of house contains any lighting, door, or other utility script that's different from other models.]

[Qie Niangao]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

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Alwin Alcott wrote:

isn't somebody in the same group deleting the stuff?

group owned things and delete powers don't always mean items get returned.

 

And if it's returned together with other items, you know it can be a item with a total random name.

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Thanks Alwin. Apparently only the house disappears. I don't think the house is group owned, just the land. (Can copyable things be group owned? ) She said no one else had edit rights -- that was the first thing I thought of -- the only thing, really: someone was deleting it.

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Hmm. Group-owned wouldn't be an option for no-Transfer items, but everything is set to the Estate group. Now, I've never seen group-set items "deleted" by a group member fail to be returned to their owner, but maybe that's possible?

(But even so, most Estate groups don't give permission to normal group members to remove other members' items set to group, for obvious reasons. Could be that Officers have that Ability, but again I've always found that group-set items end up returned when "deleted" by another group member.)

Looking at the current house, it's not "shared" with the group, so it's not as if sombeody in the estate could push the thing off-world and trigger deletion that way (and then only for objects with STATUS_DIE_AT_EDGE).

[Pamela Galli]

Thanks so much for taking a look, Qui. I dropped the currently rezzed house on her yesterday, to see if one not in a rezzer would disappear within a few hours, and it looks like it has not. My best guess at this point would be something along the lines you suggest -- some sort of deliberate interference -- but have have no idea what or how. There just is no other explanation for the set of facts I have been given.

[Pamela Galli]

The more I think about it, the odder it seems that in a couple of years of selling this house, the only two people who have had this problem, happen to know each other. (Although only one of them reported the problem to me, which is strange in itself.) 

[Gunner Grun]

Did she try a sim restart I've seen some strange things over the years that a simple sim restart would fix.

[Pamela Galli]

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Gunner Grun wrote:

Did she try a sim restart I've seen some strange things over the years that a simple sim restart would fix.

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Thanks, couldn't hurt, huh?

[Pamela Galli]

Bumping ome last time to make sure no one here has any more idea than I do.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Bumping ome last time to make sure no one here has any more idea than I do.

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Two ideas:

1) The owner was living in one of those "stacked dome" type builds, which may have some weird quality.

2) I don't know how you set up your rez-box items, but if it's possible to "live" in one of your houses without officially "fixing" the rezz position and deleting the rezzer scripts in the items they may have been living in the house with the rezzbox scripts still in place. I've had items that were set up for a multi-rezzing situation (i.e. with rez/de-rez scripts) disappear without a trace with no notice and the scripts are probably similar.

[Pamela Galli]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Bumping ome last time to make sure no one here has any more idea than I do.

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Two ideas:

1) The owner was living in one of those "stacked dome" type builds, which may have some weird quality.

2) I don't know how you set up your rez-box items, but if it's possible to "live" in one of your houses without officially "fixing" the rezz position and deleting the rezzer scripts in the items they may have been living in the house with the rezzbox scripts still in place. I've had items that were set up for a multi-rezzing situation (i.e. with rez/de-rez scripts) disappear without a trace with no notice and the scripts are probably similar.

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Thanks Teresa -- she said she had deleted the Rez box, but she is living in a dome, I will check and see if it is stacked.

 

[Qie Niangao]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

My best guess at this point would be something along the lines you suggest -- some sort of deliberate interference -- but have have no idea what or how.

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Just for clarity, I don't think it's necessarily deliberate but interference may be at work here, perhaps something as simple as cross-talk between the embedded rezzer script and some other scripted object, possibly the nearby rental box. 

I wonder if the friend's location might also have those rental boxes, or if the locations have something else in common that could be a clue.

It's a good puzzle -- if a solution is ever found. :smileytongue:

[Pamela Galli]

Yes, I checked and the sim and most surrounding sims have the stacked domes, all with sim surrounds. I have seen surrounds cause physics problems.

[Prokofy Neva]

I have had several customers contact me in exasperation saying "Where's my house?" or "Why did you delete my house?!"

But I see their prims on the land menu. I go up in the sky, there's their house.

They come back the next day, walla, their house is back. Was the sim reset in the mean-time? Doesn't seem so.

I've had mesh houses seem to disappear as you stand in them and right clicking on them makes them jump back into place. But this is different. This is like a total disappear. 

[Pamela Galli]

A Linden and Whirly are investigating the possibility of script crosstalk with some other item. What is puzzling is why this house, with the same scripts as dozens of others, is affected. 

[ChinRey]

I wonder if this is the same problem:

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Objects-I-cannot-see-that-others-can/td-p/3096819

Did anybody try the wireframe solution (type ctrl+shift+R twice) Rhys suggested in that thread?

[Pamela Galli]

Think not, since no one can see the house. Meanwhile I had a second customer say the same house jumps to 0,0,0 on her sim. So far the house minus Rez script is staying put. My guess, suggested here and by Whirly, is that something is sending messages on the same channel as the Rez script. But only recently, and only on this house.

[ChinRey]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Think not, since no one can see the house.

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Yes. I was also thinking of the cases Prokofy mentioned and they look more similar to the ones I mentioned.

 

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Pamela Galli wrote:

My guess, suggested here and by Whirly, is that something is sending messages on the same channel as the Rez script. But only recently, and only on this house.

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That sounds very unlikely to me. I've had similar problems with old rez boxes before: rez one house, move it and suddenly the other house I had forgotten about somewhere else on the sim pops up. But that were old freebies with old rez boxes. I would assume a modern rez box uses a channel based on the owner's UUID to minimize the risk of interference. Anything else would almost be criminal negligence by the scripter.