Tithonus in a Mesh Body. Are You Getting Older in Second Life?

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

That is so in line with what I've experienced in the times I've been one of the (possibly intoxicated) dancers in RL.

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Or a blissful dancer in SL?

;-).

[Dillon Levenque]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

That is so in line with what I've experienced in the times I've been one of the (possibly intoxicated) dancers in RL.

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Or a blissful dancer in SL?

;-).

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Aye, that too.

That's the thing about experiences. Once you've had them, they're part of you. They are an element in your narrative. In that particular instance, a very positive and treasured element of mine.

 

Hiya :-)

.

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

Hiya :-)

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Back at ya, Buttons.

;-).

[LaskyaClaren]

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irihapeti wrote:

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when a 30s-40s-50s+ is dancing (a little bit intoxicated sometimes) to a song from their youth then they arent dancing as a 30-40s-50s+. They are dancing as a teenager. They are transported back in time. In their minds and memories. They are young again, for those moments. We see this every weekend, in 1000s of faces, on 1000s of nights for over the 10 years now that we have been playing the pubs

+

SL is a bit like this as well I think. Sometimes we connect with others of our own age as ourselves, and other times we dont

when we dont then we are dancing (a little bit intoxicated) as our younger selfs once more. In our minds and memories, for those moments

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That's an interesting insight, and one that I can relate to, somewhat.

When I first started in SL, I hung out for a long while at a popular coffee house. Not infrequently, because I didn't always feel like I was "fitting in," I'd dance on the roof of the place while everyone else was chatting below me. (In hindsight, I was being a bit sulky and showboaty, I guess . . . a difficult time in my life in RL, etc. But that's neither here nor there.) Sometimes, some of the others who had been chatting would come and join me dancing on the roof, and it would evolve into a sort of big, wild, noisy impromptu dance party . . . on a roof. And on those occasions, I did find myself "feeling" a bit like I had when I was 10 years younger (not that I did a whole lot of dancing on roofs in my 20s, but you get the idea . . .)

But I don't think I was "regressing," or becoming my younger self -- it was just that the experience resonated with past experiences I'd had when I was younger. The experience you describe (and I'd apply this to what Dillon describes below too) is completely genuine, precisely because it is in us, an expression of who we still actually are. I wouldn't have enjoyed the wild rooftop dance parties if that part of me was not still very much alive, I think.

And that's a bit different than what we do when we assume an avatar, because that IS an external shell: it's a "sign" that we wear, maybe partly in response to our own desires or insecurities, but also surely very much because it represents how we want to be read by others. And it is read, mostly, by the lights of social conventions about age.

"Acting young," when it is genuine, isn't really "acting" at all, because all of our past selves are still part of who we are now. And on such occasions, I suppose there can be a sort of a sort of correspondence between virtual and "real" selves. But so much of the rest of the time, maybe, we are constructing papier-mâché selves that say more about who we are precisely because of the dissonance, rather than the truth in representation.

[LaskyaClaren]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

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LaskyaClaren wrote:

And part of it is, too, that the fact that 90% (or more) of us represent as 20-somethings says a whole lot about RL attitudes towards age that we are, apparently, unwilling to question in SL. So, are we 

really

employing SL in this regard as a "potential miracle" . . . or are we just using it to mindlessly reflect an ageist agenda pushed in RL by advertisers, the fashion industry, the entertainment industry, etc.?

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. . . Even given the skins of five years ago, I don't think my avatar looks 20 something.

No, actually. Yours doesn't, I think. At one time I thought "Laskya" didn't either, but I now think I was wrong.

 

 

. . . My RL wardrobe hasn't changed in the last five years, there's no reason my SL wardrobe should.

Your reasoning is flawless, but . . .  

It's always interesting, and frustrating, when being genuine 

looks

like a falsehood. 

 

Were I here more, I'd probably go looking for a skin that's more reflective of the 45 years of wisdom that continues to elude me.

AHA!!!!!!

 

That said, irihapeti's got it. If you carefully watch my Mom playing with children, you might only see children. I think we can all do this (and appreciate it in others) to varying degrees, depending on the circumstances. If we're seeking affirmation, or feel more comfortable conforming, the circumstances will dictate where we go, but we will go. If we don't give a damn, the circumstances don't matter,. That's when the eye-rolling (and real fun) starts. I do love to be around people who can age surf with me, but it's not necessary.

I don't think I've met anyone who's pretending to be younger at heart than they are. Have you?

Well, see my answer to irihapeti, above. I don't know that I know what "young at heart" really means, except in somewhat schlocky Hollywood terms. We are all enormously complicated figures, and someone of an older age who is genuinely engaging in behaviour that society normally classifies as "young" is still being genuine for all that society might think otherwise.

But that's behaviour. Would we, most of us anyway, say the same thing about someone who consciously and deliberately tries to 

LOOK 

younger than they are? Which is really what we are doing when we put on our avatars.

(The counter to that is the point that Kelli made above: that young is the "default" here. It actually requires effort NOT to look young.)

 

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[LaskyaClaren]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

That is so in line with what I've experienced in the times I've been one of the (possibly intoxicated) dancers in RL.

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Or a blissful dancer in SL?

;-).

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Aye, that too.

That's the thing about experiences.

Once you've had them, they're part of you. They are an element in your narrative.

In that particular instance, a very positive and treasured element of mine.

.

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Yeah, This. 

That's essentially the point I'm trying to make about "genuinely" acting "younger." It isn't really "acting" at all -- and the corollary is that it's also not really "younger." It's who one is now.

[irihapeti]

can understand what you saying. Where you coming from

i just add that the moments we are logged in are for most of us, quite short relative to the rest of the time in our lives. In the same way that the time we spend in a pub dancing as teenagers is also quite short relatively

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some more thoughts

i think also that sometimes we can mix up youth with perfection. Conflate maybe

that we can conflate youthful-looking with perfection, in how we look and how we groom, as a way of disguising or hiding even, the imperfections (usually imagined, but not always) in ourself

i just say about my own avatar as a maybe way of explaining what I mean, in a counter kinda way

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i have always had a imperfect avatar

one eye is a little bit more buggy than the other. My nose is not aligned on 50. My nostrils are a bit wider as a relationship with my mouth. My chin recedes a little bit more from what might be a classical norm. I am a bit jowlly. I have a tiny overbite. My mouth is a bit off center. My whole head is a bit crooked as well

my skin has imperfections as well. Is a quite expensive skin, is not immaculate tho. Immaculate in the flawless perfect sense. It not only has artist drawn imperfections like freckles and moles, in places the texturing is smudged and misaligned due to artist error

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the combination is that I am imperfect to look at up close

has always been this way. In the time before the last time I played, I had a skin which was also imperfect with the same shape imperfections. The skin I got now is pretty much the same tone shading as that one. And same as the time inbetween also

on the time before, sometimes people would say to me stuff like: You looking a bit aged/dated dear. You should freshen your look up. and they would give me LMs and stuff to skin shops and that

i know that they meant well. But I never said nothing other than just say thanks and I think about it. But I never did. This is who I am. That if I wear another newer/fresher skin then I maybe not recognise myself. I maybe even forgot who I am. I maybe even end up being somebody else (: Can be seen this to be a imperfect way of thinking about it also tho

is the same today. My avatar is who I am. Is imperfect and I never will get on the cover of any magazine

most of how I look is unnoticed by most other people. The imperfections are not overly obvious. They are there tho and do kinda reflect the imperfections in myself I think. I am not a perfect person and I never will be

my avatar can still be quite pretty tho when I do my makeup. Is just not perfectly pretty, and I am ok with this

+

the imperfections do something else which I find works good for me

without changing my shape or skin, and just by applying makeup and a dif hair style I can look any age from a girl upto a mature middle-age woman. Is quite good this. I can still feel like me, no matter what age my avatar might look like in the moment

i dont look like a mature woman trying to look younger. I am younger and I look it. I dont look like a girl trying to look older. I am older and I look it

took me ages to work this out

[Madelaine McMasters]

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LaskyaClaren wrote:

I don't know that I know what "young at heart" really means, except in somewhat schlocky Hollywood terms.

But that's behaviour. Would we, most of us anyway, say the same thing about someone who consciously and deliberately tries to 

LOOK 

younger than they are? Which is really what we are doing when we put on our avatars.

(The counter to that is the point that Kelli made above: that young is the "default" here. It actually requires effort NOT to look young.)

 

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You must have some idea what "young at heart" means or you'd not offer the counterexample of just trying to look younger. I suppose it's one of those "you know it when you see it things". I think I said earlier that everyone is capable of this in varying degrees, constrained to varying extents by circumstance.

And Kelli's right, young is automatic here. Mags, Par and irihapeti put significant effort into appearing older/more imperfect. I worked on that too, but not as much. I have added freckles (I'm half Irish, and look it) and moles (all astronomically related), but that was as much to tell a story as to reflect reality. I sport vitiligo in RL and have considered repainting my avatar to make me look like the skinny Holstein I really am.

But isn't this whole age thing a subset of the larger discussion we've had here for years? SL allows people to duckwalk around quite a few "isms". Sometimes that radiates dissonance, sometimes not.

 

[Perrie Juran]

This maybe a slight tangent but one of the things that has fascinated me is the wide age range that others in SL have pegged me for over the years.

In SL I'm really not one of those A/S/L types.  On occasion but that's rather rare for me.  I'm more interested in whether a person can carry on a half way intelligent conversation.  But on occasions when 'age' has come up, and I'm talking here about people who have known me a little while, I've been pegged for being everywhere from my early 20's to mid 40's.  In a few instances there has appeared to be a slight state of shock when a much younger girl I was dating found out how old I was.  (And no, I am not trolling SL for younger girls:  I don't need that to prove or bolster my manhood or my libido.  I'm just here to have fun).

 

[Parhelion Palou]

Maddy's post at 2015-11-27 10:45 PM said in part: "That said, Parheliion Palou is drop dead gorgeous (sorry Par!) with grey hair and weathering." I think she meant a different Parhelion; she spelled it Parheliion. If in fact she did mean me, I must say her tastes are a bit unusual. This is me:



In Maddy's most recent post she said: "And Kelli's right, young is automatic here. Mags, Par and irihapeti put significant effort into appearing older/more imperfect." I did put significant effort into my usual look (not the one above) at the time, but it's been almost 4 years since I did more than small tweaks. I got Par to "good enough". Four years ago Par looked older than I did IRL, but I've been catching up.

I don't believe I've ever seen irihapeti in-world, but I suspect she looks more real than most avatars. People have all sorts of imperfections - we look symmetrical from a distance, but up close not so much.

My answer to the thread's question is I'm not currently getting older in Second Life, but I might if I get to be significantly older than Par. I wanted Par's usual look to be similar to my own because Par is a reflection of me. He's what I look like after hopping through the portal from RL to SL's world. He's my default appearance in SL, but I've been everything from a glowing sphere to various dragons, penguins, animals, aliens, robots, even a sunflower or a tree. (I've recently found a great hobbit house, so if anyone knows of a good hobbit avatar I'd love to hear about it.)

I'm glad most people don't feel the need to look like their RL selves. SL wouldn't be as much fun without the tinies, elves, aliens, and all the other avatars people have created.

[Madelaine McMasters]

... swoons.

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

There are several ages you can find looks for in SL 15, 25, 60, and 80.  There isn't much available for the 35-55 aged crowd.  This happens to be the age I find most attractive in RL - imperfections and all.  I seem to see more mens skins available in that age range than I do women's skins, unfortunately. 

Clothes are the same way.  When I first discovered SL I tried many different looks all in the 25 year old age range.  As time has gone by (and I found many more interesting shops)  I tend to dress my avatar more like the real life me - rather conservative with little skin showing.  I will put on a character when out exploring RP sims,  dress sexy for a night out dancing, or if I am going to a themed party, but in general my avatar dresses much more maturely than 5 years ago when she first rezzed. 

Finding the right parts to age my avatar has not been easy and I still look for items to age her correctly.  Skins are perfect, unblemished, clothes fit perfect 20 year old bodies.  Tattoo wrinkles and aged skins look too old, angry and unnatural, so I have tweaked my shape bit by bit over the years.  I've worn and modified the same shape for 5 years.  The profile picture I have here in the forums is 5 years old and looks younger that the more current profile picture inworld.

I suppose I am just more comfortable being me, but I do envy those that can become characters very different than their real life selves, those who can immerse in their RPs.  I figure they must have actual creativity in their makeup :matte-motes-big-grin-wink:

[Dresden]

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Cinnamon Mistwood wrote:

I figure they must have actual creativity in their makeup :matte-motes-big-grin-wink:

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I have tons of creativity in my makeup...



Especially the blush.

...Dres  (It wouldn't have been the same without the blush.)

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

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Dresden wrote:

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Cinnamon Mistwood wrote:

I figure they must have actual creativity in their makeup :matte-motes-big-grin-wink:

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I have tons of creativity in my makeup...

Especially the blush.

...Dres  (It wouldn't have been the same without the blush.)

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Mmmmmmm sexy look!  The blush really does add to the overall artistic expression, but that lighter than air tutu is the icing on the cake.

You had a Rez Day a week and a half ago and I forgot to toss glitter and feathers all over your feed.  Happy Rez Day (late) Dres!

[Dresden]

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Cinnamon Mistwood wrote:

You had a Rez Day a week and a half ago and I forgot to toss glitter and feathers all over your feed.  Happy Rez Day (late) Dres!

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Awww... thanks, Cinn.  I'm actually grateful that no one made a big fuss over it.  My SL self may not be getting any older, but having to acknowledge the fact that I've been haunting the pixel corridors of Second Life for more than eight years now makes my RL self feel exceedingly ancient.

...Dres

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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LaskyaClaren wrote:

So, what of the rest of you? Have your avatars "aged"? Do the shapes and skins you wear, the clothes you buy, reflect the march of time in RL? Or do you remain trapped in amber?

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No.  My avatars haven't aged.  From the get-go my SL avatar didn't look like a kid or a teenager.  I purposely designed her to look like an adult.   After 4.5 years, I did upgrade to a purchased skin.  Now, at 8+ years, I sometimes have different hair, and clothes.  But, I barely change outfits, let alone my whole avatar!  

 

In RL I wore 1940's style clothing in high school (complete with seamed stockings, vintage suits bought from estate sales), and dressed like an adult. (not current trends)  In my 20's I regularly wore clothing from various past eras.  So, dressing more, "mature" ...I'm not sure what that would be.  

 

My SL partner is 10 yrs younger than me in the real world, but when I met him inworld, I thought he was an old man! haha SL clothing and avatars might not reflect reality, and I'm ok with that knowledge.  If someone shares their RL age, that's cool.  If not, that's ok too.  I see no reason to waste money and time aging my avatar, when I'm experiencing the real thing, everyday in the flesh.