The past couple years this is what it's like to try to find a place to hang out...

[Fmeh Tagore]

 

I know that land owners didn't like it when people could find places via how many people were currently there, but getting rid of it a couple years ago pretty much destroyed the usability of Second Life.  I hardly come in-world anymore because I'd have to spend hours and hours just trying to find a place if I log in at night.

[Qie Niangao]

There's a lot to investigate here, but I certainly agree that we don't have the tools necessary to make SL a viable social discovery tool. I'm not so sure it used to be much better, except that there used to be more people around, doing social stuff, so we need improved tools to find the fewer who remain.

One thing that might be a little helpful is that there actually is real-time headcount information exposed to part of the login screen:

and also in-world, if one of those four specific categories of "Destinations" is selected, those headcounts are shown.

(Until I saw your clip, I never appreciated the inconvenience of having no easy navigation from the Map to a corresponding Search, although there's a handy link to go in the other direction without having to copy-and-paste text.)

[Marigold Devin]

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Fmeh Tagore wrote:

 

I know that land owners didn't like it when people could find places via how many people were currently there, but getting rid of it a couple years ago pretty much destroyed the usability of Second Life.  I hardly come in-world anymore because I'd have to spend hours and hours just trying to find a place if I log in at night.

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Your video certainly illustrated well some of the flaws in accessing sociable areas within Second Life, and I hope some of the community Lindens will see this and take note.

I think Destinations is ok for people who want to look for a particular theme or a place to make photos, and I have a (possibly bad) habit of pointing people in the direction of the Destination Guide web page if they have absolutely no idea of what direction they want to be going in.

Understandably, many people get very jaded when they are, like yourself, very sociable and looking for group entertainment.  Not being quite so gregarious myself, I've always been the sort to use the world map and aim for the bunches of green dots. You were very lucky to drop in on that rock club so quickly, and they were superbly friendly when you arrived (I hope you said "be back later" before you vanished - I think this is why some places get ruder over time and don't bother greeting new folks popping in). 

In the days of yore, many of the places I randomly hopped to, in the hope of finding some kind of party, were loaded with bots, and it was very eerie to be in a room full of soul-less beings who did not reply when I said hi or whatever. And on a male alt account, I was summarily insulted, ejected and banned, because I had used the random green dot method of finding a place and had landed right in the middle of a womens-only club! Bizarre, surreal, and disturbing experience all in equal measure as I am sure you can imagine.

I think after all the years of spending hours and hours trying to locate good places and feeling more and more desperate, you may have found a right good place in that rock club, from where you'll be able to be offered many more LMs to other good hangout joints.

 

 

[Fmeh Tagore]

There used to be ways of seeing how many people were at locations.  Even "Destinations", which was a new function, used to work differently when it was first introduced.  It would always list how many people were at a location, and the first entries in the pouplar lists used to prioritize as showing the places that had the most people there first.

Previously, like 6 or so years ago, or even longer, land owners were upset with how their clubs were never visited because people would use various methods to find the places that had the most people on them.  I remember being on forums like SLUniverse where people who ran small clubs and land owners were happy when LL changed it so people couldn't do that anymore.  It was why people used bots so often before--and is confusing why they still use them now.

I've been on SL since around '06, or was it '05?  Can't remember... but I *do* remember back when attached hair moved one frame behind the rest of the avatars, that was always humorous.  I've seen a lot of changes over the years.  I remember when the search option would list clubs (or any locations really) that were the most populated first.  It used to be easy to find new places with lots of people in them.

On a side note, yes, I went back to that club immediately after capturing the video and hung out there for at least an hour--I was having trouble with the viewer crashing a lot, so before I left, I told them that I was having trouble with the viewer.

Most of my landmarks for places that used to be popular became invalid about 2 years ago--they simply don't exist anymore.  I DJed in Second Life for about 3 years, I was getting known as "the voice" as far as my speaking voice.  Almost everywhere has changed.  I can't imagine how anyone who wants to get involved with SL now would be able to keep interest--and as I said, the infohubs on SL are pretty much cesspools of bullies and trolls and griefers, it's like SL's 8chan.  

And now one can't even feasibly customize hardly anything about their avatars now--so much mesh stuff means everyone's body shapes are cookie-cutter, there's no modding mesh stuff--mesh was poorly planned, it was released before it should have been ready.  Sorry, I digress....

Anyway, thanks so much for your responses.

[Venus Petrov]

This brought back memories. I was a n00b in early 2007 and I exclusively used the grid map and green dots to find places where there was some activity.  I had no knowledge of any type of guide even though the starter area was filled with maps. My computer then was not really geared for 'gaming' graphics.

Even so, using that green dot method I found some friendly places, some odd places, and some places to which I never returned.  One example is finding a lesbian furry dance club.  Once I realized what it was, I had already been greeted by several avatars and felt welcome.  I stayed around for a few dances and chatted.  Unfortunately, I did not LM the place and never returned.

LL could improve upon the search function but residents need to know it exists and works to use it.

[Marigold Devin]

I find it quite sad when I visit old landmarks and places have gone and are just flattened fields of nothingness now.  Recently I went back to a mainland sim called Boonootoo, which was totally different to how I remembered it. It was one of the places where, as a newbie less than two weeks old, I met a bunch of people from around the world, and we all swapped landmarks and took each other to great new places, which sadly one by one have all closed down. Of course a lot of the people I me back then haven't been active for many years now, and I find I rarely am able to log in any more, because I keep crashing out with not having sufficient resources to run SL really. 

So is refreshing to find a place like the one you did. 

I know places like Sweethearts have kept going, but its a bit too smooth and "refined" a place for the likes of me to go (smile wink!),

Yeah, it is a bit of a mystery why some people are still using bots. And the welcome areas are just places for the trolls and griefers and those with little imagination or social skills to hang around in mainly.  I notice Linden Lab have got some new and improved welcome places for people to be, but you don't get to know about them unless you begin a new account and get to find where they are.  They're sweet and tame, and give a good first impression I guess, and Linden Lab are seen to be trying to encourage new people to stay for longer than 24 hours (ain't working though!).

Just us die hards and live-in-hopers who continue to keep the faith.

I hate Hate HATE mesh body parts. Never got on with the false feet - wouldn't want 'em in RL, hate faffing about with them in my leisure time. But some people really like that dolls house play aspect more.

Hair has always been fun - I don't remember hair being one frame behind, you are a bit older than me, but I do remember teleporting and arriving with half my hair up my arse, along with a shoe! And an ex-boyfriend once ran me over on his motorbike and that caused a shoe to fly off. 

 

 

 

[ZoeTick]

One of the pleasures of SL has always been its unpredictable ephemeral nature.

If you want stability (in any sense of the word) or guarantees of environment, performance or emotional responses then SL is NOT the place to look for it.

And look for it you have to.

It seems as if the sense of nostalgia in this thread is endorsed by those who are happy to be led by the nose by commercially venal "advisers", advertisements that are a happy-hunting ground for semi-literate amateur copywriters, or guerilla marketing campaigns populated by bots.

Fine.

I'll take serendipity and a tiny friends list of people whose opinions I can trust - even if I don't trust the people themselves.

[Marigold Devin]

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ZoeTick wrote:

One of the pleasures of SL has always been its unpredictable ephemeral nature.

If you want stability (in any sense of the word) or guarantees of environment, performance or emotional responses then SL is NOT the place to look for it.

And look for it you have to.

It seems as if the sense of nostalgia in this thread is endorsed by those who are happy to be led by the nose by commercially venal "advisers", advertisements that are a happy-hunting ground for semi-literate amateur copywriters, or guerilla marketing campaigns populated by bots.

Fine.

I'll take serendipity and a tiny friends list of people whose opinions I can trust - even if I don't trust the people themselves.

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If this is aimed at me directly, then you'd need to read back through previous posts I've made to be able to get away with making certain remarks you have in your post.

Life is serendipitous, and more so I think for those who are working with a small budget and limited resources, limited spare time, etc.

Stability is desirable - in real life as well as virtual reality - often sought, rarely found. In the long-term, there may not even be such a thing.

Back in the nostalgic atmosphere of this thread, I remember 2008 or before, whole chunks of days Second Life being out of bounds, out of action, because of rolling restarts, general maintenance, and I LOVED being chased around by sim restart messages, absolutely embraced the lag and the quirks.

"It seems as if the sense of nostalgia in this thread is endorsed by those who are happy to be led by the nose by commercially venal "advisers", advertisements that are a happy-hunting ground for semi-literate amateur copywriters, or guerilla marketing campaigns populated by bots."

I don't rightly know what this paragraph means.