Ichi Rexen Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 I tested out Hi-Fi alpha the other day. Gave it an hour of my time and even with the documentation it took me around 30 minutes to actually get an avatar to load. The world would barely load. The character models do not look all that great. The scripting system uses Java and its a total cluster**bleep** to get anything done (let alone figure out how to use it properly). The build import options and movement are another cluster**bleep**. The viewer or 'interface' as its called is just outright confusing...its so so so so badly designed and not at all streamlined. I understand what 'Alpha' means but Hi-Fi made big promises and so far i cant say it delivers on any of them (one case in point...connection speed to server). I mean, just trying to figure out how to teleport to other zones was a challenge in itself(and i still havent got the hang of finding my way around the worlds). The world barely loads and in my opinion shouldnt even be at Alpha release yet. I mean...try it for yourself and leave feedback here but so far.....Second Life is 100x better. I understnad that things can only get better as with any Alpha but so far im fairly dissapointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova Convair Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 You don't know what alpha means. All you describe is meaningless at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoeTick Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 It sounds like it's not that different from a noob's first experience of SL. Although I understand that SL might be considered, like most Google software, as being in permanent beta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldprophet Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 That Rosedale is sly dog. Again, utilizing the Huck Finn approach. Set up a company, bring a half baked idea to the masses and then let them do the work of building it for him, while he sits back and rakes in the cash. This time though, he has suckered LL into participating, leading Ebbe along by the nose, which will be his downfall, as HiFi and the LL new project (which are actually one and the same) both go down the toilet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coby Foden Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Alpha version: "A very early version of a software product that may not contain [and most likely will not contain] all of the features that are planned for the final version." Alpha version is like a raw unbaked cake. You cannot judge the final product by it. Comparing the very early version of Hi-Fi to Second Life has no meaning at all. We just don't know yet how the final version will look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoeTick Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Coby Foden wrote: We just don't know yet how the final version will look. Or, indeed, if there will actually be a final version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Horrible with potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoeTick Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Gavin Hird wrote: Horrible with potential. That's funny, that's just how my wife described me on our wedding day. And thirty years on, I'm apparently still in the UAT phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Well, I won't be too hard on Phillip. What bothers me the most, is the total lack of security for the items you bring into HiFi. I can't do crap there, cause it's not worth the hassle. They also have done no real standardization of the avatar, other than giving you names to label bones with. I shouldn't just get documentation. I should get a whole skeleton that I just rig an avatar to, and it works. It really does surprise me how many people just dive in and are willing to spend so much time doing work for them for free. Some might be doing a decent job, but I really don't have a week to read post by average people trying to figure out the rig. They shouldn't even be figuring it out at all, like I said. At the very least, they should have had a whole range of avatars, with animations. Instead, they have a weird mix of avatars, some animated, but most not. You can easily lose your avatar, as the camera controls are simple, at best. To me, it is just a mess, and barely functional for anyone. Yeah, it's alpha, but only really alpha to a coder. To everyone else, it's very pre-Alpha. In the end, it's actually quite dangerous for any serious merchant to be there. That's the part that seems very disrespectful to creators. I'm also not for this notion that you get people to figure your stuff out for free. Blender is an awesome program, it's open source, and free, but the coders that work on the core get paid. If the goal is to get people to work for free, then you'll get what you pay for. Now, if you want a good, thought out system, you should pay knowledgable people that have a track record of making that happen, and understand the market. Ultimately, I don't seriously see a future in HiFi, because it requires hardware to work as intended. Yes, they are trying to move away from some of those 3rd party tools that are expensive, but I don't see it working well enough to entice a big crowd anytime soon. I don't even see a business model. It doesn't even seem like they have a business plan, except maybe charging commission on merchants there, yet didn't even make the system safe to upload in. Oh, and 1 thing that is very annoying, is all the SL users comparing it directly to SL. Why are they doing that? It's like their only reference is SL. HiFi will never be SL. Ok, maybe I was a bit harsh, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celestiall Nightfire Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Medhue Simoni wrote: Ok, maybe I was a bit harsh, lol. Medhue, your opinion is usually good regarding SL issues, so I appreciate you taking the time to post your thoughts. *smiles* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Agree -- Medhue, your posts are always thought provoking. I appeciate you taking the time to post them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Pamela Galli wrote: Agree -- Medhue, your posts are always thought provoking. I appeciate you taking the time to post them. Thanks Celestiall, and Pamela! Don't let me discourage you from checking it out tho. 1 thing nice that I can say, is that they are having open meetings and listening to people, unlike some. So, they could surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I doubt that there is a big financial interest behind Rosedale and HiFi. Looks and feels more like a hobby project run by some enthusiasts. Not much pressure and the boyz play with their toyz. Which can turn out good or bad - who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Vivienne Schell wrote: I doubt that there is a big financial interest behind Rosedale and HiFi. Looks and feels more like a hobby project run by some enthusiasts. Not much pressure and the boyz play with their toyz. Which can turn out good or bad - who cares? I care, or I wouldn't spend my time checking it out and commenting, especially when I'm not paid to do so. My interests are always partly selfish, even when I help people for free. The good thing is, my interests align with many others, and by helping others, I eventually help myself. The same can be said of Philip and his team at HiFi. Really, I don't see how you can say there is not a big financial interest, because of all the funding they have raised. That funding pays everyone on that team. I'm more than old enough to know, that people don't just spend half a decade getting up early and driving into work just to play. They can do that from home. If you ask me, they are under major pressure to get something functional and get more funding, or they will all be seeking new employment to pay for those $300k homes in Cali. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayla Mekanic Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 With an alpha, you should always expect problems. The reason they let you test the alpha version is so that you can give fredback on what you want changed or if there's any bugs or glitches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Medhue Simoni wrote: Really, I don't see how you can say there is not a big financial interest, because of all the funding they have raised. That funding pays everyone on that team. Ummm...this is a private investment on a pretty low scale, not a big time profit orientated one. Some people buy italian sports car for making "losses", some people buy some coders, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I suspect HiFi is not intended to be a real service, but to create technology interesting enough that they get bought out by one of the VR headset players -- assuming the VR market ever approximates the hype. On the other hand, Rosedale did eventually make a reasonably successful service out of Second Life, back when Robin Harper was still in the executive suite. It's been all downhill since she left, of course, so it's debatable how much of it was Phil's doing beyond having enough command of the obvious to hire Robin, back in the day. That depends what technology they actually advance. The distributed stuff looks interesting, although I worry that it's back to Phil's same old overly optimistic assumptions about broadband cost, inherited from his time at RealNetworks. Otherwise, I haven't seen anything there that's particularly innovative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 To me, just like I have talked about LL's new world and SL, the key is the avatar. Other than getting avatars to work with their devices, HiFi has done nothing to standardize a default avatar that users can morphs into the actual avatar they want. I think they are banking on the thought that so many people will make avatars that people will have variety. If this is what they are thinking, it will serioiusly slow adoption. Yes, creator could create all the blend shapes to morph the avatar but what about clothing variations? 1 creator could never create enough to make any 1 avatar with enough variations. It is strictly because we are all creating for 1 avatar that the SL avatar has such a wide range. There is some talk about standardizing the avatar, but they don't have 1 default yet, and there is no interface to even use those blend shapes. The other side of the battle is getting enough users to love their avatars enough, and use the other features unique to HiFi. Few people will want to use those feature if they don't even have a unique avatar that they love. If they do get an avatar that people can adjust to their liking, then people might be engaged enough to use those other features. The problem with those other features tho, is that they can't track fast enough or well enough to work well, whether 3D camera or high def webcam. Even the best 1's don't work all that well. So, HiFi intended uses and features will be reliant of that technology advancing or code to keep your avatar from freezing unnaturally, or filling in the gaps in data to look smooth. Again, just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amie Kaestner Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Had no idea what you guys were talking about until I . Very impressive looking. Not keen on the cartooniness of the avatars but gosh if they aren't an improvement from the doll-like avatars we currently have to use. Rigged faces and fingers FTW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Qie Niangao wrote: I suspect HiFi is not intended to be a real service, but to create technology interesting enough that they get bought out by one of the VR headset players -- assuming the VR market ever approximates the hype. I guess so, too. It´s not so much about the in-world experience itself but about the technology and code used to go to there. Actually, I don´t think that these guys have any clue on content creation and especially user created content at all. Best was when I stumbled over some of their announcements, where they called a 5000 verticles test object (A very primitive spaceship) "High Poly". Qie Niangao wrote: On the other hand, Rosedale did eventually make a reasonably successful service out of Second Life He (and the talented, sometimes genius bunch of Lindens) certainly did so. Nevertheless, without the media hype and the users picking it up and transforming it into something no one ever expected and intended it to be the success would have been extremely limited. Tech alone is not enough for developing a mainstream or even niche controlling virtual reality environment. HiFi lacks any signs of intention to become that. Which proves your very first suggestion. Qie Niangao wrote: Otherwise, I haven't seen anything there that's particularly innovative. The question is: What´s "innovative" in the virtual reality context these days? As is, Minecraft is the most innovative virtual reality ever (so far), just by the number of users and by the financial return of investment - and profits. This proves that "high end", "next generation" or "ahead of the times" technical innovation is not decisive. Decisive is the user experience. A company releasing a hardly working piece of software for user testing purpose might be able to let the avatars fingers simulate typing, but most probably this company has no clue on why the hell amd what the hell for these fingers should simulate typing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Medhue Simoni wrote: the key is the avatar. Not necessarily, but in SL the avatar in "2nd person view" is part of the essential experience. The Rift and such devices provide the user with some kind of "advanced mouselook", which adresses a completely different perspective. Try one complete SL day in mouselook and you know. The Rift certainly is great for shooter games and such, which are based on this perspective, but i doubt that the attempt to make virtual reality environments (as they are) visually even more "RL like" (mouselook is closest to the RL visual experience) can be a winner. The more comparable VR becomes to RL, the more will RL win the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Vivienne Schell wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: the key is the avatar. Not necessarily, but in SL the avatar in "2nd person view" is part of the essential experience. The Rift and such devices provide the user with some kind of "advanced mouselook", which adresses a completely different perspective. Try one complete SL day in mouselook and you know. The Rift certainly is great for shooter games and such, which are based on this perspective, but i doubt that the attempt to make virtual reality environments (as they are) visually even more "RL like" (mouselook is closest to the RL visual experience) can be a winner. The more comparable VR becomes to RL, the more will RL win the competition. After seven plus years in SL it was only a few months ago that I really started using mouselook. It took me some getting used to but you are right, it really changes your perspective. I don't use it exclusively, mostly for vehicular travel (planes, boats, etc). From that perspective what I see is much more important than how I look. So still the nicer the Ava's I'm looking at appear, the better. But the thing in my mind that distinguishes Virtual Reality and Virtual Worlds in general is that the Ava is where the 'rubber meets the road.' You can find many worlds you can zoom around in with your mouse: Street View in Google Maps is a simple example. But you can't interact with that. You can't open a door on a house and walk in the way that you can in SL. It is this ability to interact with the World and with other Ava's that makes VR and VW's the unique experience that they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Well, I'm not really a proponent of the whole VR headset thing. Microsoft just put out holograms, and I think that is a better, more mainstream type of technology. It brings the virtual into reality. Beyond that stuff, HiFi is a little in the same boat as VR Headsets. They need more than just your hand, or a mouse and keyboard and monitor. Virtual worlds like SL can still easily be a hit, and is still a unique experience from other options. LL still has a chance to be somewhat more mainstream, but if I were them, I would not go out of my way to be too compatible with any of these device oriented things. I'd stick to a formula that works, which is full customization of the avatar, and then concentrated on making a platform suited for easy game creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celestiall Nightfire Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Medhue Simoni wrote: Well, I'm not really a proponent of the whole VR headset thing. Me either. I've no interest in wearing a head attachment. Hell, I don't even like wearing my glasses, and take them off when using the computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Celestiall Nightfire wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: Well, I'm not really a proponent of the whole VR headset thing. Me either. I've no interest in wearing a head attachment. Hell, I don't even like wearing my glasses, and take them off when using the computer. Imagine Microsofts HoloLens with something like SL tho. Now, I would not mind having to wear a pair of glasses, if I can see virtual things in real life. Imagine seeing all your SL friend's avatars in your living room, or just project SL onto your whole wall. For creators, or even sim designers, it would be amazing to work on the objects right there infront of you. Checkout this presentation at Build: The youtube link doesn't seem to be working, even tho it send you to the video. so I'll just post the url too. https://youtu.be/XLljp8CVpKg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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