Security orb height limits needs to be capped

[Phil Deakins]

Correction, Theresa:

It used to be that security orbs could only handle up to 96 meters, but that's in the past. Scanning still only goes up to 96 meters, but we have newer methods now. We can now get a list of all the avatars on or over a parcel, and a list of all avatars on or over all the land-owner's parcels in the same sim, and handle them with a security device (orb). So there is now no limit to how far a security device can reach. As long as an avatar is on or over the device's owner's parcel, or any of that owner's parcels in the sim, regardless of the height, it can be dealt with.

I was late to the party, and I've only recently upgraded the security device that I sell, to use the newer functions.

[Perrie Juran]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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The typical security orb can only scan 96 meters in any direction, which meant that you were within 96 meters of private property. 30 seconds is a very reasonable time limit and you probably could have cruised through the protected bubble without even changing direction or speed before it was triggered. It sounds like you were distracted and then lost control of your vehicle. Second Life airspace is uncontrolled and therefore under VFR policies it's the pilot's responsibility to "see and avoid" hazards. YOU are a menace anything else in the air (yes, birds too.)

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This statement sort of doesn't make sense.  To say that someone was "within 96 meters of private property," implies that they were outside of the private property.  And a security orb should not extend outside the private property's boundaries.

Still this brings to mind something I've never seen:  An orb scripted to warn someone they were approaching a restricted property.

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Whirly Fizzle wrote:

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/highest-hight-possible-in-sl/td-p/1021925

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Thank you for digging that out!

What a great thread that was.

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And dang......we had such a nice thread jack going and now someone done gone went and ruint it.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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The typical security orb can only scan 96 meters in any direction, which meant that you were within 96 meters of private property. 30 seconds is a very reasonable time limit and you probably could have cruised through the protected bubble without even changing direction or speed before it was triggered. It sounds like you were distracted and then lost control of your vehicle. Second Life airspace is uncontrolled and therefore under VFR policies it's the pilot's responsibility to "see and avoid" hazards. YOU are a menace anything else in the air (yes, birds too.)

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This statement sort of doesn't make sense.  To say that someone was "within 96 meters of private property," implies that they were outside of the private property.  And a security orb should not extend outside the private property's boundaries.

Still this brings to mind something I've never seen:  An orb scripted to warn someone they were approaching a restricted property.

 

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Air rights are a bit odd. You only have the rights to the airspace you can reasonably use. In RL someone can fly over your land even if it's posted as no tresspassing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Causby

Since in SL gravity is optional for built objects the "bubble" of air you can use may be far higher than the ground level - this bubble is what I referred to as "private" property. Of course in Second Life you could use all of the airspace but SL common law generally allows flight above an owned lot - the default ban line system only goes up somewhere around 50 meters above ground level. Security orbs are usually used to secure a build above ground level and, unless owned by a total goober, allow you leave or pass through the lot in a reasonable amount of time.

[Perrie Juran]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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The typical security orb can only scan 96 meters in any direction, which meant that you were within 96 meters of private property. 30 seconds is a very reasonable time limit and you probably could have cruised through the protected bubble without even changing direction or speed before it was triggered. It sounds like you were distracted and then lost control of your vehicle. Second Life airspace is uncontrolled and therefore under VFR policies it's the pilot's responsibility to "see and avoid" hazards. YOU are a menace anything else in the air (yes, birds too.)

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This statement sort of doesn't make sense.  To say that someone was "within 96 meters of private property," implies that they were outside of the private property.  And a security orb should not extend outside the private property's boundaries.

Still this brings to mind something I've never seen:  An orb scripted to warn someone they were approaching a restricted property.

 

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Air rights are a bit odd. You only have the rights to the airspace you can reasonably use. In RL someone can fly over your land even if it's posted as no tresspassing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Causby

Since in SL gravity is optional for built objects the "bubble" of air you can use may be far higher than the ground level - this bubble is what I referred to as "private" property. Of course in Second Life you

could

use

all

of the airspace but SL common law generally allows flight above an owned lot - the default ban line system only goes up somewhere around 50 meters above ground level. Security orbs are usually used to secure a build above ground level and, unless owned by a total goober, allow you leave or pass through the lot in a reasonable amount of time.

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Got it.  Thanks for clarifying.  I was thinking only in terms of the horizontal.  I forgot about the vertical.

And adding just for reference:

"Maximum ban line height for "no entry" or "pay to access" (in other words, "allow public access" is turned off, or "allow group access" is turned on, in the parcel options) is the parcel's ground elevation plus 50 meters. If a user is explicitly banned by name, the height is the parcel's ground elevation plus 5000 meters. On current viewers this is visible to the full extent."  http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Limits

Many orbs are scripted to parcel ban trespassers in addition to kicking them.  The orb I use is scripted to parcel ban by name after the second violation. I give 60 seconds to vacate my skybox on the first intrusion.

[NymChimpski]

I love eating Big Macs, they're 500 calories each so if I walk for 2 hours each day I can eat 4, I also love vanilla milkshake but my doctor wants me to eat garlic and peanuts.

[bebejee]

Are you kidding me?  take a break from SL and get in touch with reality.same message for that property guy who responded few posts before you.

Deluded people taking SL so seriously and runing others joy with their insecurities and them calling the sane lot culprits.

[sirhc DeSantis]

Juran sez - "Still this brings to mind something I've never seen:  An orb scripted to warn someone they were approaching a restricted property."

Then I suggest you actually a) get in world and travel and b) pay attention

A way back I described one I actually employ.

But then again use of 'Orb' == not actually a clue.

mic drop

 

 

[ImaTest1488314069]

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bebejee wrote:

Are you kidding me?  take a break from SL and get in touch with reality.same message for that property guy who responded few posts before you.

Deluded people taking SL so seriously and runing others joy with their insecurities and them calling the sane lot culprits.

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Most posts you make on these forums are proof that you're the one that takes SL seriously.

You whined about the system taking $ from you it didn't. You said it's real gold to you. That's pretty serious over pennies.

How'd that one turn out?

After you blamed the seller and the MP for your own mistake.

 

Now you're whining about not having access to all of SL just because you want it.

If people read your posts they'd see that you're always delusional and you always overreact about stupid things.

Almost always stupid things you do on your own.

Like making yourself crash by not watching the screen.

 

[Phil Deakins]

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ImaTest wrote:

Like making yourself crash by not watching the screen. 

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To be fair, a security device can cause you to crash in a vehicle when you're thousands of meters up and there is absolutely nothing but sky on the screen. No amount of keeping your eye on the screen will prevent it. That's been made very clear in this thread.

[ImaTest1488314069]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

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ImaTest wrote:

Like making yourself crash by not watching the screen. 

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To be fair, a security device can cause you to crash in a vehicle when you're thousands of meters up and there is absolutely nothing but sky on the screen. No amount of keeping your eye on the screen will prevent it. That's been made very clear in this thread.

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Yes it can.

But that's not what happened here.

Lots of things can make a viewer crash.

It still helps to pay attention to what you're doing.

30 seconds isn't unreasonable time to leave.

It's only unreasonable if you're not looking at the screen when it pops up.

Or to someone that's paranoid and overreacts a lot.

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

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bebejee wrote:

Are you kidding me?  take a break from SL and get in touch with reality.same message for that property guy who responded few posts before you.

Deluded people taking SL so seriously and runing others joy with their insecurities and them calling the sane lot culprits.

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I'm not the one watching "television" in a drifting "blimp."

[bebejee]

Again a deluded person who takes SL seriously calling sane ones paraoid.

My cribbing about money lost has nothing to do with this, besides wont anyone crib if they lost money in SL due to a glitch? having fun and not taking SL seriously does not equate to not complaining about issues that are spoiling your fun on here, that 90 L could help me rent a new place or buy things adding to my fun in SL,

I dont work on here, I dont put in RL money I dont have relationships in SL, I am not doing busines in here, I'm not even paying in the hundres or thousands to rent nor have I bought anything above 500L and that too just once, so definitely not taking Sl seriously like those putting up ban lines and orbs and  defending it calling sane users complaining about he nuisance as menace and paranoid.

I mean really get a reality check.

 

[bebejee]

It just shows your mental stae and how seriously you are taking your pixel world that there is no FUN in it.

[CassieMaia]

Your first post mentioned that you had been flying for an hour before encountering the security orb.  

Another perspective of reality is that you might be grateful for all the people who bought land or rent land and allowed you to fly through their parcels during that hour, and also to realize that your requirements for 'fun' may not be the same as other's requirements.  (For example, someone mindlessly flying a  blimp through my sky island would not be 'fun' for me). 

[ImaTest1488314069]

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bebejee wrote:

Again a deluded person who takes SL seriously calling sane ones paraoid.

My cribbing about money lost has nothing to do with this, besides wont anyone crib if they lost money in SL due to a glitch?

I mean really get a reality check.

 

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You didn't lose money. There wasn't a glitch.

You overreacted and blamed the seller and the system.

Because you can't be assed to check your transaction page before freaking out.

You didn't crash because of an orb.

It gave you plenty of time.

You're pissed that everyone in SL doesn't let you onto their property.

That doesn't sound like fun.

It sounds like serious business.

Histrionics are not lost on you.

Your post history shows that.

Irony is lost on you tho.

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

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bebejee wrote:

It just shows your mental stae and how seriously you are taking your pixel world that there is no FUN in it.

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Oh, I have lots of fun in Second LIfe. For instance, I'm enjoying watching you melt down. It's hilarious.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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bebejee wrote:

Are you kidding me?  take a break from SL and get in touch with reality.same message for that property guy who responded few posts before you.

Deluded people taking SL so seriously and runing others joy with their insecurities and them calling the sane lot culprits.

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Cool.. My enjoyment in SL comes from shooting down aircraft that enter my lands air space. I have several Ion cannons and missile bays on my damage enabled land. Have fun dodging them!

[Qie Niangao]

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CassieMaia wrote:

(For example, someone mindlessly flying a  blimp through my sky island would not be 'fun' for me). 

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Every day, billiions of people have sex with other people who aren't you, even if you wear make-up. It's an outrage!

[Phil Deakins]

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bebejee wrote:

[...] so definitely not taking Sl seriously like those putting up ban lines and orbs and  defending it calling sane users complaining about he nuisance as menace and paranoid.

I mean really get a reality check. 

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But you are taking SL too seriously. Much too seriously. Coming here are complaining that something caused you to crash after an hour of trouble-free flying is taking SL very seriouly indeed. Far more seriously than most other people take SL. It is you who needs to get a reality check.

You have had a positive effect though. I've added a facility for owners of my security device to set it so that it doesn't operate when the owner isn't there. And I'm in the process of adding another facility so that the owner can set the height limit at which it operates, the default being 50 meters above and below the device. The settings are at the owner's discretion of course, but your thread hasn't been a complete waste of time.

[Perrie Juran]

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sirhc DeSantis wrote:

Juran sez - "Still this brings to mind something I've never seen:  An orb scripted to warn someone they were approaching a restricted property."

Then I suggest you actually a) get in world and travel and b) pay attention

A way back I described one I actually employ.

But then again use of 'Orb' == not actually a clue.

mic drop

 

 

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Thank you for your sound advise.

You should be more careful with your mic.  You could break a toe if it landed too hard.

[Phil Deakins]

I remember this idea coming up in a longish thread, similar to this one, some years ago, and I'd like to pursue it.

I've given it a little thought and it seems to me that it would be problematic. I can see it working perfectly up in a skybox if there are no other buildings anywhere near it, but I can't see it working happily on the ground. If it starts warning people when they are at a distance that would be helpful to them, it would also warn those who live next door, shall we say. So how do you envisage such a system operating, Perrie?, bearing in mind that security devices are very common on the ground.

[Perrie Juran]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

I remember this idea coming up in a longish thread, similar to this one, some years ago, and I'd like to pursue it.

I've given it a little thought and it seems to me that it would be problematic. I can see it working perfectly up in a skybox if there are no other buildings anywhere near it, but I can't see it working happily on the ground. If it starts warning people when they are at a distance that would be helpful to them, it would also warn those who live next door, shall we say. So how do you envisage such a system operating, Perrie?, bearing in mind that security devices are very common on the ground.

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I hadn't given it detailed thought.  It was just an observation that occured to me as I was reading the thread. As I said (to the best of my recollection) I had never seen one in all my travels all over SL. 

You're right, they could be problematic.  Additionally, how is the warnee to know which direction the warning is coming from.  A person could brush through the outer perimeter of a sensor field even though they are not heading towards its source.   

[Qie Niangao]

It's technically possible for a script to tell which direction an avatar (or vehicle) is moving, or has been moving over time, most reliably by tracking change in position over time. (There's also llDetectedVel() and OBJECT_VELOCITY of llGetObjectDetails(), but they're instantaneous measures and don't work for non-physical, kinematic motion.) So they could detect some trajectories that suggest impending intrusion.

Any such system would keep a list of warning-exempt IDs, such as neighbours and those who explicitly opt-out of future warnings, as well as a cache of a hundred or so of the most-recently warned, so as not to be a too blatant source of spam.

They might nonetheless be considered ToS-violating spam, and I'd never recommend doing it.

Also, FWIW, I travel a lot of Mainland and I, too, have never encountered such a thing. I've been spammed by commercial greeters, certainly, while on Linden roads, but I think those are just noob scripts that don't use llOverMyLand(), and anyway aren't useful warnings of Trumpesque pixel-protecting walls ahead.

[Perrie Juran]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

It's technically possible for a script to tell which direction an avatar (or vehicle) is moving, or has been moving over time, most reliably by tracking change in position over time. (There's also llDetectedVel() and OBJECT_VELOCITY of llGetObjectDetails(), but they're instantaneous measures and don't work for non-physical, kinematic motion.) So they could detect

some

 trajectories that suggest impending intrusion.

Any such system would keep a list of warning-exempt IDs, such as neighbours and those who explicitly opt-out of future warnings, as well as a cache of a hundred or so of the most-recently warned, so as not to be a too blatant source of spam.

They might nonetheless be considered ToS-violating spam, and I'd never recommend doing it.

Also, FWIW, I travel a lot of Mainland and I, too, have never encountered such a thing. I've been spammed by commercial greeters, certainly, while on Linden roads, but I think those are just noob scripts that don't use llOverMyLand(), and anyway aren't useful warnings of Trumpesque pixel-protecting walls ahead.

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TY Qui.

As they say, "The devil is in the details."