PJ Highfield Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 It seems that with the change of the TOS, recently; LL's next move may be to restrict access to paying subscribers... We all have our own reasons NOT to use LindeX and now having it the only means to convert USD to SLL and vise-vesa; a lot of "residents" may leave.I, for one; am canceling my subscription not because of this recent change but because I see no benefit of having it anymore. Though, this recent change does now equate into whether I do so the coming weeks or the week before its does renew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha Blumenthal Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 LL makes another bad move, what's next ? Resident will only be allowed to have a house and a dog ? Doing this exchange service ban, LL is shooting on his own leg ! So many people won't agree giving all their personnal informations to be able to convert L$ currency, no more choice, I call this a dictature ! Remember the casino ban ? Well nothing new here, people will leave simply because LL makes his world less and less free, this was once the moto for SL, let people build something new and original. Now the moto is buy and house a dog, and enjoy your stay ! Good luck to fight against your own the bankrupty LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Sometimes some quality rubbish is posted in this forum. Well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Sasha Blumenthal wrote: 1. LL makes another bad move, what's next ? 2. Resident will only be allowed to have a house and a dog ? 3. Doing this exchange service ban, LL is shooting on his own leg ! 4. So many people won't agree giving all their personnal informations to be able to convert L$ currency, no more choice, I call this a dictature ! 5. Remember the casino ban ? Well nothing new here, people will leave simply because LL makes his world less and less free, this was once the moto for SL, let people build something new and original. 6. Now the moto is buy and house a dog, and enjoy your stay ! Good luck to fight against your own the bankrupty LL 1, they didn't ban anything. 2. you can stil do what ever you want in SL. 3. They are saying to use third party exchanges at your own risk. 4. Don't you have to give personal info to sell on third party exchanges? how would you get your money if not? the word is Dictatorship... 5. Right, because so many people left over that... btw, the catch phrase was " your world, your imagination." not sure what that has to do with exchanging money... 6. huh? ETA.. it's easier to make your point if you lay off the crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspiria Finucane Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Drake1 Nightfire wrote: ETA.. it's easier to make your point if you lay off the crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iCade Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Sasha Blumenthal wrote: Remember the casino ban ? By god, get out the pitchforks for SL following the freaking LAW that you are NOT above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommanno Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Drake1 Nightfire wrote: Sasha Blumenthal wrote: 1. LL makes another bad move, what's next ? 2. Resident will only be allowed to have a house and a dog ? 3. Doing this exchange service ban, LL is shooting on his own leg ! 4. So many people won't agree giving all their personnal informations to be able to convert L$ currency, no more choice, I call this a dictature ! 5. Remember the casino ban ? Well nothing new here, people will leave simply because LL makes his world less and less free, this was once the moto for SL, let people build something new and original. 6. Now the moto is buy and house a dog, and enjoy your stay ! Good luck to fight against your own the bankrupty LL 1, they didn't ban anything. 2. you can stil do what ever you want in SL. 3. They are saying to use third party exchanges at your own risk. Lindens are sending out emails to 3rd party exchangers demanding them to remove their ATM's from Second Life and cease all Linden trading immediatelly "to keep their SL accounts in good standing", thus ignoring their own TOS rule of 30 days prior notice. This has been confirmed by Virwox and Rock Currency Exchange, just on the top of my head. Yes, they are banning all other exchanges besides Lindex and in a worse possible way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Rommanno wrote: Drake1 Nightfire wrote: 1, they didn't ban anything. 2. you can stil do what ever you want in SL. 3. They are saying to use third party exchanges at your own risk. Lindens are sending out emails to 3rd party exchangers demanding them to remove their ATM's from Second Life and cease all Linden trading immediatelly "to keep their SL accounts in good standing", thus ignoring their own TOS rule of 30 days prior notice. This has been confirmed by Virwox and Rock Currency Exchange, just on the top of my head. Yes, they are banning all other exchanges besides Lindex and in a worse possible way. If this is true , then they are banning them from having an inworld presence. the ToS clearly states you are not prohibited from using them. My guess is the trader companies are saying LL is telling them to stop trading to cause and uproar in the community. Why would LL say one thing to us and another to them if it is easily confirmed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deja Letov Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Drake1 Nightfire wrote: Rommanno wrote: Drake1 Nightfire wrote: 1, they didn't ban anything. 2. you can stil do what ever you want in SL. 3. They are saying to use third party exchanges at your own risk. Lindens are sending out emails to 3rd party exchangers demanding them to remove their ATM's from Second Life and cease all Linden trading immediatelly "to keep their SL accounts in good standing", thus ignoring their own TOS rule of 30 days prior notice. This has been confirmed by Virwox and Rock Currency Exchange, just on the top of my head. Yes, they are banning all other exchanges besides Lindex and in a worse possible way. If this is true , then they are banning them from having an inworld presence. the ToS clearly states you are not prohibited from using them. My guess is the trader companies are saying LL is telling them to stop trading to cause and uproar in the community. Why would LL say one thing to us and another to them if it is easily confirmed? Well based on the email I received back from my ticket I submitted asking for clarification, I take it as it is completeley forbidden. Although...I love how their support staff tells me they won't give me a straight answer and tell me I should judge the rule for myself but then turn around and say...but if you get it wrong, we're gonna ban your butt. "Support staff are not authorized to interpret the ToS for you; you will need to read them for yourself and act in accordance with them as you understand them. The updated Terms of Service make it clear that trading of Linden dollars (L$) on exchanges other than the LindeX, Second Life’s official L$ exchange, is not authorized. We will enforce our Terms of Service as we always have. Failure to comply with the ToS may result in loss of your Second Life account(s)." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malanya Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 The blog was updated and states this: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Updated-Second-Life-Terms-Of-Service/ba-p/1996185 They did state that this would take effect 30 days after this notice (I believe in the previous Blog post or TOS entry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeclaw Denfu Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Drake1 Nightfire wrote: "If this is true , then they are banning them from having an inworld presence. the ToS clearly states they are not banned." It is true, the exchanges have been ordered by email to cease all trading in L$ immediately and remove any items connected to their exchange service. If this order isn't followed, a ban will follow. ( The text of this email has been posted on numerous blogs and fora. ) So, having an inworld presence isn't a problem, offering exchange services is the problem here. The interesting question will be: Anshex seems to be still online. Will the Lab play hardball with the Anshe Chung-Empire? Or will the size of this Empire keep the Lab at bay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I didn't realize the blog overrides the ToS.. No where in the ToS does it state they are not allowed. It says "use at your own risk." 5.3 There are other exchanges that are operated by third parties on which Linden dollars are exchanged. Third party exchanges are not authorized by Linden Lab and Buying or Selling Linden dollars on third party exchanges are not authorized transactions. Third party exchanges are wholly distinct from both the LindeX exchange and Linden Lab and they have no affiliation with Linden Lab. We do not endorse or otherwise guarantee the legitimacy of the Linden dollar transfers offered on them, and we are not liable for purchases of such Linden dollars. Buying or Selling Linden dollars anywhere other than the LindeX is done so solely at your own risk. If you Buy Linden dollars that are traced to unauthorized credit card activity or other fraudulent activity, we will recoup these Linden dollars from your Account. The only authorized exchange is the LindeX. So, which is it? Are they allowed or not? I am going to follow the ToS and say they are alowed .. at your own risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Jadeclaw Denfu wrote: Drake1 Nightfire wrote: "If this is true , then they are banning them from having an inworld presence. the ToS clearly states they are not banned." It is true, the exchanges have been ordered by email to cease all trading in L$ immediately and remove any items connected to their exchange service. If this order isn't followed, a ban will follow. ( The text of this email has been posted on numerous blogs and fora. ) So, having an inworld presence isn't a problem, offering exchange services is the problem here. The interesting question will be: Anshex seems to be still online. Will the Lab play hardball with the Anshe Chung-Empire? Or will the size of this Empire keep the Lab at bay? can you post a link to one of those blogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malanya Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Drake1 Nightfire wrote: I didn't realize the blog overrides the ToS.. No where in the ToS does it state they are not allowed. It says "use at your own risk." 5.3 There are other exchanges that are operated by third parties on which Linden dollars are exchanged. Third party exchanges are not authorized by Linden Lab and Buying or Selling Linden dollars on third party exchanges are not authorized transactions. Third party exchanges are wholly distinct from both the LindeX exchange and Linden Lab and they have no affiliation with Linden Lab. We do not endorse or otherwise guarantee the legitimacy of the Linden dollar transfers offered on them, and we are not liable for purchases of such Linden dollars. Buying or Selling Linden dollars anywhere other than the LindeX is done so solely at your own risk. If you Buy Linden dollars that are traced to unauthorized credit card activity or other fraudulent activity, we will recoup these Linden dollars from your Account. The only authorized exchange is the LindeX. So, which is it? Are they allowed or not? I am going to follow the ToS and say they are alowed .. at your own risk. I am sure it doesn't Drake, but the blog posted yet another update just after the first one to the TOS. I am assuming (could be way off here) but since there is a statement that this will take effect 30 days form the notice, LL can't update the actually TOS until the 30 days is up. Just a guess. It's as if the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing and of course nothing is clearly outlined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malanya Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Drake1 Nightfire wrote: Jadeclaw Denfu wrote: Drake1 Nightfire wrote: "If this is true , then they are banning them from having an inworld presence. the ToS clearly states they are not banned." It is true, the exchanges have been ordered by email to cease all trading in L$ immediately and remove any items connected to their exchange service. If this order isn't followed, a ban will follow. ( The text of this email has been posted on numerous blogs and fora. ) So, having an inworld presence isn't a problem, offering exchange services is the problem here. The interesting question will be: Anshex seems to be still online. Will the Lab play hardball with the Anshe Chung-Empire? Or will the size of this Empire keep the Lab at bay? can you post a link to one of those blogs? I also wondered about Anshex still operating but I am sure like a few others like podex (this was told to me in another thread) that she may be using the 30 day period. I think the that SLU has the link I will try and find it. Some exchanges did state that were notified by the Lab and they have that on their website hompages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommanno Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Malanya wrote: I am sure it doesn't Drake, but the blog posted yet another update just after the first one to the TOS. I am assuming (could be way off here) but since there is a statement that this will take effect 30 days form the notice, LL can't update the actually TOS until the 30 days is up. Just a guess. It's as if the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing and of course nothing is clearly outlined. Can you point a link where Linden Lab is talking about 30 day notice? I can't find that on their blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeclaw Denfu Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Drake1 Nightfire wrote: Can you post a link to one of those blogs? Here: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Updated-Terms-Of-Service/td-p/1997113/page/3 Last entry (30) on that page, the poster is an operator of an exchange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommanno Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Drake1 Nightfire wrote: Rommanno wrote: Drake1 Nightfire wrote: 1, they didn't ban anything. 2. you can stil do what ever you want in SL. 3. They are saying to use third party exchanges at your own risk. Lindens are sending out emails to 3rd party exchangers demanding them to remove their ATM's from Second Life and cease all Linden trading immediatelly "to keep their SL accounts in good standing", thus ignoring their own TOS rule of 30 days prior notice. This has been confirmed by Virwox and Rock Currency Exchange, just on the top of my head. Yes, they are banning all other exchanges besides Lindex and in a worse possible way. If this is true , then they are banning them from having an inworld presence. the ToS clearly states you are not prohibited from using them. My guess is the trader companies are saying LL is telling them to stop trading to cause and uproar in the community. Why would LL say one thing to us and another to them if it is easily confirmed? Are you serious? This is Linden Lab we're talking about. Heck, they might be creating confusion on purpose to decrease community uproar as they are taking services away from people which are simply superior to their Lindex. LL is not well know for good communication with their users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I don't have any special information here, but if I were in the business of trading L$s and got a 30 day notice, I'd d*mned sure stop trading as immediately as I possibly could. Wouldn't anybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommanno Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Qie Niangao wrote: I don't have any special information here, but if I were in the business of trading L$s and got a 30 day notice, I'd d*mned sure stop trading as immediately as I possibly could. Wouldn't anybody? Maybe, they're doing that to give people who don't have paypal a chance to cash out, before leaving SL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Jadeclaw Denfu wrote: Drake1 Nightfire wrote: Can you post a link to one of those blogs? Here: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Updated-Terms-Of-Service/td-p/1997113/page/3 Last entry (30) on that page, the poster is an operator of an exchange. Are we really supposed to believe that Linden Lab sent an informal email to a business without any contact info on it? Not a salutation, from the office of, to whom it may concern? Any email of that nature would be from the legal department and would have to follow proper business legalese. Fixed the link for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucretia Brandenburg Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 "It seems that with the change of the TOS, recently; LL's next move may be to restrict access to paying subscribers" Now THAT is a huge leap. Without a premium account, I purchased Lindens all the time on the Lindex. There are merchants in SL without premium accounts, they pay rent, they pay a percentage of their marketplace sales to LL. LL would lose far too many residentsif they restricted it to premium accounts. There are non premium members who spend hundreds or more USD worth of Lindens in SL every month. Why would LL cut off their nose to spite their face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 PJ Highfield wrote: It seems that with the change of the TOS, recently; LL's next move may be to restrict access to paying subscribers... This is just another conspiracy theory. I can assure you that this will never happen. Premium membership is just a part of their total income. I have never been premium but pay LL more money each month in tiers, fees, and commissions than probably 95 percent of premium members and have done so for almost 7 years now. Why would they restrict my access and let someone that only pays 9.95 a month, never buys L's or land because they have a freebie house stay? That would be monumentally stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeclaw Denfu Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Drake1 Nightfire wrote: "Are we really supposed to believe that Linden Lab sent an informal email to a business without any contact info on it?" Sorry to burst your bubble, but we're dealing with the Lab here, not a normal business entity. And you know, how defective their communication skills are. Plus, this comes from a different operator in Germany:http://www.slinfo.de/forum/showthread.php?t=32855&s=cfb053bc1f16721dd06cc987e9f3c2d7&p=555099&viewfull=1#post555099 Same Text. Happy now? Btw. he confirms, that two other exchanges received the same mail: Milz Yue wrote on SLInfo.de: "Habe 2 Kollegen gefragt die haben die gleiche Email bekommen." (I asked two colleagues, they received the same mail) Drake1 Nightfire wrote: "Fixed the link for you..." Yeah, by breaking it. It ends now on the first page of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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