LL condemn the recent Executive Order on Immigration

[CleverCarla]

you are sadly sadly blind... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW2FnhxdklA

[DarkRavenWolfie]

Im happy to see LL stands firmly against discriminatiom of any kind. Some may consider it as unnecessary political statement while I say its about keeping human during these times of political discord that is currently going on.

 

My thoughts and prayers goes toward the second lifers who or their relatives happen to be affected by this situation.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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CleverCarla wrote:

you are sadly sadly blind...

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Clever how you've now changed the link to a different video than I watched in your original link (your oringal link

) and also deleted posts about leaving SL because you didn't like LL's statement. This is a response to the orignal link you posted.

 

Oh lovely.  A pro Trump vid using clips that prove nothing.  This falls into 'alternate facts' or fake news and is fear mongering at it's worse.  It features:

• Clips of Muslims meeting in London (not Dearborn) that has no translation so you have no idea what's being said and for all we know the participants could be praying  or involved in a peaceful protest against a Brit policy
• Clips of people fighting that look like both sides are fighting and even so is not clear as to which side is doing what or why or if even Muslims are involved.
• Clips of Muslims voicing anti-trump statements that are not advocating violence at all.  BTW, the opinions they express could be heard from many of the majority of US voters that did not vote for Trump
• Clips of supposed 'christians' wearing hateful slogan t-shirts and acting generally hateful and bigoted, railing against a cop for not supporting their 'free speech' rights over the Muslims who apparently have none since these 'christians' don't like what they have to say.  These people aren't true Christians and need to go back and read what Jesus said about enemies and people of other beliefs in the Bible.

Funny, if Dearborn were such a hot bed of Muslim radicalism and on the breaking point of slaughtering non Muslims it would be all over all the news.  Everything I've read about the largest Muslim community in the US is that the large majority of Muslims there are peaceful and have condemned the violence of some other Muslims.

Christians have historically committed violence against Muslims for centuries as well as many other people that don't subscribe to Christianity or even the flavor of Christianity that the people being violent.   uphold.  Over time, they've probably killed more people than the Muslims have. 

As pointed out, we've been bombing the middle east as well as messing in their politics to protect 'our oil'  for decades.  BOTH sides have things to be ashamed of and have contributed to the violence the world now has to deal with.

So, good bye and good luck.  Toss your computer out the window as many many tech and online companies have taken the same stand as LL.  So have two federal courts.  So we'll see what the latest appeal ruling is.  I expect it will uphold the lower courts.

 

[ChinRey]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

and also deleted posts about leaving SL because you didn't like LL's statement.

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I think it was the moderators who deleted those posts actually, the replies to his posts are gone too.

 

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Funny, if Dearborn were such a hot bed of Muslim radicalism and on the breaking point of slaughtering non Muslims it would be all over all the news.

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Also funny that nobody's noticed before. The muslims have been in Dearborn for a century now.

 

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

many tech and online companies have taken the same stand as LL. So have two federal courts.

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And 19 states, including Minnesota (possibly the "whitest" of all states), New York (probably the state with the biggest immigration problem and also where most of the 9/11 attack took place) and six states with republican governors.

[Alwin Alcott]

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Aislin Ceawlin wrote:

Like you show respect? Hmmm....You seem to be a snarky pest who doesn't know the definition of majority. Big difference between electoral college (an outdated system) and popular vote. MOST of America most definitely did NOT want him (by approx. 3 million)

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I totally don't care about how you call me, i know it's comming from you.

And if somebody doesn't know how majority works in these elections it's you. Trump did get the majority by the system how it's executed. period.

That you think it's outdated is your opinion, if the USA changes it, there will be another system that perhaps suits you better. Till than... deal with it.

[Qie Niangao]

Whether one thinks the electoral college is outdated or not largely depends on the population of the state where you live, and that state's propensity to vote solidly for one party or another.

The system itself was created to preserve slavery, but it's certainly not the only vestigial remains of America's "original sin" that's still part of the system. Pretty much anything that is claimed to preserve "states rights" (like the Senate) is a hold-over from the battles to create and maintain a union of half-abolitionist, half-slave states.

As much as the Electoral College perpetuates and extends that racism-based divide between states, it effectively disenfranchises nearly as many "red state" as "blue state" voters. Basically, if your state votes reliably red or blue, there is simply no reason for you to vote in a presidential election, for etiher party. Because of the Electoral College system, you simply have no say in democracy, and only the "purple" states matter -- and only their issues get attention from candidates.

Because the system discourages paying any attention to their issues, a majority of Republicans and Democrats end up disappointed by their party's candidates, especially when they win. But the system has tremendous power to self-perpetuate--small, low-population states are loathe to give up the massive disproportionate representation they get from the system -- despite it harming the majority of both parties' voters, even in those states.

[Innula Zenovka]

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ChinRey wrote:

I think it was the moderators who deleted those posts actually, the replies to his posts are gone too.

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 I think that when a post is deleted, that removes all the replies to it,  whether it's the author or a moderator who deletes it.   

That's always been my understanding of how it works, anyway (one of the several reasons we don't like people deleting their questions in the scripting forum when their question is answered).

[Pamela Galli]

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

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ChinRey wrote:

I think it was the moderators who deleted those posts actually, the replies to his posts are gone too.

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 I think that when a post is deleted, that removes all the replies to it,  whether it's the author or a moderator who deletes it.   

That's always been my understanding of how it works, anyway (one of the several reasons we don't like people deleting their questions in the scripting forum when their question is answered).

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I thought so too until recently a post I replied to was removed. My reply stayed put, but the message replie to changed to someone else. Which made my post seem not to make sense in context.

[Azrikam]

Huge thumbs down. This is a freaking game not somewhere to push some political agenda. Linden Labs has lost the freaking plot. Thankfully unlike most people, I realize LL is just a monkey in the barrel and as long as they dance when i log in and dont intrude any further than what im paying them to do..........I will be just fine. But I really wish this had not been done im sick and tired of this political correctness bs and seeing companies taking sides instead of doing what they are supposed to do and provide service for their customers.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Azrikam wrote:

im sick and tired of this political correctness bs and seeing companies taking sides instead of doing what they are supposed to do and provide service for their customers.

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Your "political correctness" is other people's well being and safety. Just because it doesn't affect you personally is no reason to be evil and unempathetic to the suffering of others.

But in truth it will effect you. This anti-immgrant stance will, if it succeeds, have a dramatically negative impact on the tech industry - which is a global industry that depends on a highly mobile workforce of people around the world, as well as on having a few centralized tech hubs.

Americans should thank their lucky stars that the world's most important tech hub in in the USA - and stop trying so hard to destroy it, given that it is close to bankrolling their country now, and keeping them out of the third world.

Would you rather some other nation take all that prosperity and move it to their shores?

How happy would you be if Linden Lab and other tech companies had to go out of business for lack of abilty to find workers within their own team or even the teams of partners they rely on?

Given that only 1 out of 7 tech jobs is filled, even after you include for highly skilled foreign labor coming to the USA, and given how many of those immigrants start tech and other businesses once they get to the USA - cutting all of that out would be a disaster to the US economy.

Immigrants aren't coming for your auto or coal job - the robots and wind/solar took those and they will never come back anywhere on this planet. Immigrants are coming to start jobs, in tech and elsewhere.

Do you live outside a major coastal city? Go look at the doctors and nurses in your hospital. Most of them are immigrants - because the hospital cannot afford American born doctors as those regions just don't have the industry to pay for them. And even if they could... not enough Americans actually even go to medical school... There is no amount of money that a hospital there could pay to get a doctor that doesn't actually even exist.

We could run through the list of low-skill labor jobs as well. Americans willingly fill mid-skill labor, avoid low-skill, and not enough get the degrees for high-skill.

But even if you could fill every single high-skill job with the people that don't actually exist... it would be a disaster. Throughout history places of prosperity have always been at the center of international travel and commerce. Whether through peace or conquest or even being conquered - the great civilations have always been full of a mix of peolpe. And they have always collapsed shortly after closing their borders.

 

So even if you want to be cold and hearthless towards to suffering of others, even if you want to abandon our commitments to international law and the international order by abandoning our obligations towards refugees - you should think then, after you have chosen the path of evil self interest... that turning a blind eye to all of this will in the end, directly harm you.

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

It isn't political correctness.  The following poem was originally written in 1946 by Pastor Martin Niemoller (1892–1984) about the cowardice of people during the Nazi era.  Substitute any oppressed group for "socialists", "Trade Unionist", or "Jews" in the following as you please.  It still applies.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

It is the duty of every American to speak up when any peaceful people are demonized or oppressed by other people due to their race, religion, or national origin or the world may find itself in the same situation.  In fact the US constitution forbids it.  Terrorist are certainly evil but they must be treated according to their individual behavior or beliefs that it's ok to reek mayhem and kill others who don't believe as they do.

[Phil Deakins]

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Alwin Alcott wrote:

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Aislin Ceawlin wrote:

Like you show respect? Hmmm....You seem to be a snarky pest who doesn't know the definition of majority. Big difference between electoral college (an outdated system) and popular vote. MOST of America most definitely did NOT want him (by approx. 3 million)

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I totally don't care about how you call me, i know it's comming from you.

And if somebody doesn't know how majority works in these elections it's you.

Trump did get the majority by the system how it's executed. period.

That you think it's outdated is your opinion, if the USA changes it, there will be another system that perhaps suits you better. Till than... deal with it.

---

Everyone knows that. What Trump didn't get was the majority of the people. He lost that one. He only managed to win in a system that isn't wholly democratic, and it was you who initially stated that he won democratically, when he didn't. He only managed to win in a pseudo-democratic system.

[Devriv]

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist."

Amethyst, the poem you quote is a fabrication. 

The actual poem, safe from “tweeting” Brown Shirt and Black Shirt opportunists, can be read here, posted in the Holocaust Memorial Day website.

[Pamela Galli]

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Devriv wrote:

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Socialist."

Amethyst, the poem you quote is a fabrication. 

The actual poem, safe from

“tweeting”

Brown Shirt and Black Shirt opportunists, can be read

here

, posted in the Holocaust Memorial Day website.

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And how is that poem and author different from what Amethyst posted? 

Both are very well and widely known.

[Alwin Alcott]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

c, and it was you who initially stated that he won democratically, when he didn't. He only managed to win in a pseudo-democratic system.

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the system is  accepted, and most likely made some kind of law, by the choosen people of the houses of parlement. so it is democratic. That people don't agree with it.. and/or want to change it, doesn't make it less democratic.

[Luna Bliss]

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Devriv wrote:

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Socialist."

Amethyst, the poem you quote is a fabrication. 

The actual poem, safe from

“tweeting”

Brown Shirt and Black Shirt opportunists, can be read

here

, posted in the Holocaust Memorial Day website.

---

What are "Brown Shirt and Black Shirt opportunists"?

I don't believe I've heard this particular turn of phrase before...

 

[Luna Bliss]

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ChinRey wrote:

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Luna Bliss wrote:

I'm embarrassed to be an Amercian.

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It goes like this: some Americans are criminals, therefore all Americans are criminals.

That's the kind of stereotyping this is all about of course. The one thing all nations in the world have in common, is that the vast majority of the citizens are just ordinary people, neither particularly good nor particularly bad.

Unless you deliberately chose to be born in a specific country so that you could grow up to become a terrorist, don't be ashamed of it.

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Yeah, it's not really rational.

But I feel connected to/feel a part of my country.

[Luna Bliss]

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Klytyna wrote:

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Luna Bliss wrote:

I'm embarrassed to be an Amercian.

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Pretend you are Canadian... Then you can indulge in those amazing Canadian only things, like, proper bacon, better beer, and of course, their unique hobby.

 

Did you know Canadians keep French people as pets and train them to play icehockey?

Something to respect about Canada because it's more than anyone else has ever been able to do...

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Yes believe me, there are quite a few Americans dreaming of moving to Canada!

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Luna Bliss wrote:

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Klytyna wrote:

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Luna Bliss wrote:

I'm embarrassed to be an Amercian.

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Pretend you are Canadian... Then you can indulge in those amazing Canadian only things, like, proper bacon, better beer, and of course, their unique hobby.

---

Yes believe me, there are quite a few Americans dreaming of moving to Canada!

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Random news story that I heard only a few seconds of stated that, I think, since Il Trumpe became the new Feurer, 22 people had crossed the border between the USA and Manitoba, Canada and requested Asylum there.

Now there's a LOT of important details missing in that...

Like... were they Americans or refugees denied in the USA or random people from perhaps New Zealand that got lost or what?

But it's a great little factoid by itself. If they were Americans... as much as people always say they flee to Canada with every US election, I don't think anyone actually has since the VIetnam War...

Interesting. Wish I knew the details.

On the other hand... that's 22 les votes next election to stop Trump...

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Alwin Alcott wrote:

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Phil Deakins wrote:

c, and it was you who initially stated that he won democratically, when he didn't. He only managed to win in a pseudo-democratic system.

---

the system is  accepted, and most likely made some kind of law, by the choosen people of the houses of parlement. so it is democratic. That people don't agree with it.. and/or want to change it, doesn't make it less democratic.

---

The electoral college was solely designed to preserve the power of the slave states. So... well... I guess we could say that for the first time since 1865, it worked as intended.

 

[Paul Hexem]

Actually, that's not quite correct.

While the slave states did favor it, it was actually designed to ensure that lower population states would be able to have a fair say in elections vs high population states.

Otherwise (at the time) a few northern states would be choosing the president no matter how other states voted- which is why those states liked it. Today, that'd probably be New York and California.

[Rhonda Huntress]

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Gadget Portal wrote:

Today, that'd probably be New York and California.

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The top states are California (55), Texas (38), then New York (29) and Florida (29) are tied for 3rd.  The 2020 census will most likely see Texas and Florida gaining seats while New York loses a small amount.

The top 11 states own a majority of the electorial college votes between them.  Getting them all vote to the same is not going to happen.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Devriv wrote:

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Socialist."

Amethyst, the poem you quote is a fabrication. 

The actual poem, safe from

“tweeting”

Brown Shirt and Black Shirt opportunists, can be read

here

, posted in the Holocaust Memorial Day website.

---

 

Thank you for pointing out that version. I was curious and did a bit of research.

Apparently the author Martin Niemoller, lectured and spoke a lot over his lifetime and the poem he said it in   various versions sometimes listing Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, communists, socialists, the schools, the press, the ill and incurable, people from other courtries, the "church", as well as the Jews. in various combinations.  And these are just the groups that were recorded from his lectures. The one I quoted was apparently the first version and is the one shown in the US Holocost Memorial Museum's Encyclopedia.

It really doesn't matter, as the poem is a powerful one no matter which groups are listed.  I don't think the author would mind if modern groups that didn't exist back then were added or substituted.

[Paul Hexem]

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Rhonda Huntress wrote:

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Gadget Portal wrote:

Today, that'd probably be New York and California.

---

The top states are California (55), Texas (38), then New York (29) and Florida (29) are tied for 3rd.  The 2020 census will most likely see Texas and Florida gaining seats while New York loses a small amount.

The top 11 states own a majority of the electorial college votes between them.  Getting them all vote to the same is not going to happen.

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Right, that's why it works. If you check out this map:

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population#/media/File:US_population_map.png

You can see that the two coasts would control the elections, if not for the electoral college. That's all I was saying.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

The founders had about large states having too much control over elections because most of the founders were very state not federally oriented, due to a healthy mistrust of central power as illustrated by the recent struggle with England where we they had no representation.  Aside from this, one of the biggest reasons we have an Electoral College is that at the time the constitution was written a large percentage of the population couldn't read and even if they could, communication was so slow they rarely knew much about national candidates.  Even if they heard of them, current relevant information about them took weeks if not months to reach people.  They generally knew a lot more about their state electors though, who presumably would be better educated people.  So they voted for the elector they trusted most.

The electors started to gather usually at least a day or more before the actual vote, since travel was so hard and people usually allowed plenty of lee way to be sure to be there on time.  Electors could then exchange news about the candidates and any changes that were relevant so that they were much better informed to select the best person for a national job.

My biggest problem now with the Electoral College now is that all states. except two, award the votes of their electors using the winner take all method.  So if you live in a state where the majority of people vote for another candidate than the one you want, your vote essentially doesn't count.  If states apportioned electors based on the portion of votes each candidate received it would be much fairer and also reflect more of what the true majority of voters wanted.  This is important in a national election where the elected candidate is supposed to represent all the people which is the reason that I think the electoral college should be repealed.  But if that's not possible, then apportioning electors is better than nothing. 

States just don't need to have all that power in a national election anymore with the educated populace and instant communication we now have.  I also have to ask why aren't the states required to have their own for statewide office based on counties not states?  All statewide offices are elected by the majority after all.

People keep saying that if it weren't for the electoral college, a few states would control the elections.  In the case of the last election, that assumes that no one voted for anyone but the trumpster in the red states, and everyone voted for Hillary in the blue states, which is just not true.  Some of those 3 million votes, if not a large portion, that put the popular vote out of sync with the electoral vote may very well have come from those red states.  It's just to simple too point at California or New York and say that they all came from there and gloss over this.