Hey LL, the Lindex has no instant cashout!!!!

[Medhue Simoni]

This is a response to LL changing the Terms of Service. You can find it here.

 

The ONLY reason anyone uses any other exchange to convert their lindens into dollars, is because LL takes a WEEK to exchange the money. This is not exceptable in any logical person's book. It takes more than a WEEK if LL is backed up. If LL wants everyone to use the Lindex, than all LL has to do is implement instant cashouts. No person would need to use another service if LL would actually do what is needed. You, LL, created the problem which you are now rewriting the TOS to try to correct. Just implement instant cash outs and PUFF, the problem is solved.

If every person used the Lindex, that would mean more payouts for LL to process, it would result in cashouts taking even longer. How the heck does LL think it can even deal with all the transactions if they get backed up with processing cashouts now? The only real solution is to implement instant cashouts for all those that cashout regularly. If LL can't do instant cashouts, than please explain to us why, in detail.

[Ciaran Laval]

Absolutely agreed, the only reason I have ever used an alternative exchange is because the Lindex takes such a long time to process payments, I accept a worse rate to get the money in my bank faster.

[Porky Gorky]

The cash out TAT has never bothered me personally, I just plan ahead and cash out a week before I want the money to hit Paypal.

I agree that the whole process could easily be carried out more efficiently if the right resources were thrown at it, but this is Linden Lab we are talking about, that's not the way they roll.

I think it is a good thing they are taking a firmer control over their currency, it should give them more room to manipulate the market so the L$ can remain stable for longer as usership declines as well as reducing fraud.

[Sylvio Runo]

I am really thinking to leave SecondLife.

Only us residents can cashout to Paypal.

If i can not cashout, there is no reason to stay here.

And i am sure, i am not only one.

The economy will brake.

[Teagan Tobias]

Can i has your stuff?  :matte-motes-big-grin:

[Porky Gorky]

---

Sylvio Runo wrote:

I am really thinking to leave SecondLife.

Only us residents can cashout to Paypal.

If i can not cashout, there is no reason to stay here.

And i am sure, i am not only one.

The economy will brake.

---

You don't need a premium account to cash out, as far as I know you don't even need PIOF. So why exactly can't you cash out?

[Sylvio Runo]

I am a premium user since 2007.

I have a payment info, but i am not american citizen and the only way to cashout to Paypal.

LL only allow american citizens, residents in USA to cashout money to Paypal.

Did you understand now?

 

Edited:

Now, by a minute, imagine all the other residents not usa residents, what do they do with the money?

English, australians, italians, all the rest of the world, what do they do with the money?

[Madeliefste Oh]

---

Sylvio Runo wrote:

The economy will brake.

---

The economy broke when LL did forbit gambling, the economy broke when banks were no longer allowed in SL, the economy broke when we were no longer the owners of the land we have bought, the economy broke when LL raised the price of home steads, the economy broke when LL bought Xstreet, and so on. And must of us stayed and there did not change a thing for us.

 

So I guess this new break of the economy will only have influence on the people running third party exchanges.

[Madeliefste Oh]

---

Sylvio Runo wrote:

LL only allow american citizens, residents in USA to cashout money to Paypal.

 

---

I live in Europe, I cashout to Paypal since 2007.

[Porky Gorky]

---

Sylvio Runo wrote:

Now, by a minute, imagine all the other residents not usa residents, what do they do with the money?

English, australians, italians, all the rest of the world, what do they do with the money?

---

 

 

 

I am from the UK and LL have been cashing out to my Paypal account for 8 years. I know other Europeans that also cash out regularly so I think you are wrong. You should double check your information.

[Sylvio Runo]

Thank you Porky, Thank you Madeliefste,

I only stopped to sell my money to Lindex because LL blocked the cashout for non usa residents to Paypal, in the past.

But off course they could allow again, but i never returned to LindeX because i found a better way (faster) to send my money out.

But i will research better

Thank you again

[Perrie Juran]

---

Medhue Simoni wrote:

This is a response to LL changing the Terms of Service. You can find it

here

.

 

The ONLY reason anyone uses any other exchange to convert their lindens into dollars, is because LL takes a WEEK to exchange the money. This is not exceptable in any logical person's book. It takes more than a WEEK if LL is backed up. If LL wants everyone to use the Lindex, than all LL has to do is implement instant cashouts. No person would need to use another service if LL would actually do what is needed. You, LL, created the problem which you are now rewriting the TOS to try to correct. Just implement instant cash outs and PUFF, the problem is solved.

If every person used the Lindex, that would mean more payouts for LL to process, it would result in cashouts taking even longer. How the heck does LL think it can even deal with all the transactions if they get backed up with processing cashouts now? The only real solution is to implement instant cashouts for all those that cashout regularly. If LL can't do instant cashouts, than please explain to us why, in detail.

---

 

ETA, I am not going to edit all I just wrote........I missed the part about the change to the TOS and I need to digest that.  But  I think my basic points still stand.

___________________________________________

 

I do understand small delays in cash outs.

Even though LL controls the Lindex, it is a separate entity from LL.  And there is a lot of currency passing through it.  Real currency.

I do hear people lauding the quick cash outs on third party exchanges but I have both read and heard of enough delays on them to know for Fraud Protection they can and will slow things down.

I know three people who have been burned by Phishing Schemes.  One of then LL did a complete recovery, one a partial and one who delayed in calling the fraud line when she couldn't log in to her account got nothing back.

I am sure you are aware of this from the Wiki:

 

"Fraud & theft are both LL:Terms Of Service violations and crimes. Misuse this function and you risk being banned and legal action. In addition LL may freeze the accounts of anyone the money is transferred to and restore it to it's rightful owners. This may involve retrieving it from third party exchanges and accounts on those exchanges being frozen. The system is not designed to be friendly towards fraud."

 

All of those friends had trouble understanding why LL couldn't just replace the Linden Dollars.  After all, we know that LL can create 'currency' (Linden Dollars) any time they want.  What they somehow had trouble grasping was the fact that those Linden Dollars could be converted to real currency and whose pockets that real currency would be coming out of.

You pay a premium for using a Third Party Exchange and my guess is they bank part of that premium against retrievals by LL as stated in the Wiki.  It is a guess that they do this but I would be surprised if they didn't.

For an established Merchant like yourself or any one with a good track record it should go quicker.  But I still would not consider 48 hours unreasonable.  I totally agree they could do better.

 

On a final note, I am of the opinion the Phishers operate very systematically.  While what I have seen of the Phishers is that they use brand new accounts to get people to spoofed web pages, what I suspect because of trading limits on new accounts is that they use older accounts they have established to cash the Linden's out.  I am also of the opinion they operate from overseas, not the U.S.

 

[Motor Loon]

I agree, I'm from Europe - never had issues with cashout to paypal.
A little googling around turns up talk that Bangladesh and Pakistan are sanctioned countries, which I guess means that pretty much the rest of the world is able to use paypal. I'm glad LL has decided to closed down this outside trading - improving the security of the linden dollar.

[SugarPutty Magic]

I use Prepaid debit and Credit cards to buy my lindens. and LL doesnt always accept them. I use the same cards everytime a Visa prepaid, and sometimes LL with accept it and sometimes it wont.  I use the prepaid cards to stay with in my budget, so I am not tempted to spend more then I can afford amonth.

[Sephina Frostbite]

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Teagan Tobias wrote:

Can i has your stuff?  :matte-motes-big-grin:

---

Me first!

[Perrie Juran]

OK, someone help me out.

The Blog post (pops) states:

"to better protect Second Life users against fraud, the updated Terms of Service make it clear that trading of Linden dollars (L$) on exchanges other than the LindeX, Second Life’s official L$ exchange, is not authorized or allowed."   (my bolding)

But the TOS (pops) still states:

 

5.3 There are other exchanges that are operated by third parties on which Linden dollars are exchanged.

Third party exchanges are not authorized by Linden Lab and Buying or Selling Linden dollars on third party exchanges are not authorized transactions. Third party exchanges are wholly distinct from both the LindeX exchange and Linden Lab and they have no affiliation with Linden Lab. We do not endorse or otherwise guarantee the legitimacy of the Linden dollar transfers offered on them, and we are not liable for purchases of such Linden dollars. Buying or Selling Linden dollars anywhere other than the LindeX is done so solely at your own risk. If you Buy Linden dollars that are traced to unauthorized credit card activity or other fraudulent activity, we will recoup these Linden dollars from your Account. The only authorized exchange is the LindeX.

 

I could find no reference to using them NOT being allowed.  But I have bad eyes and I'm tired.

[arton Rotaru]

Yeah, looks like they removed the Risk API, and you do at your own risk when using a third party exchange.

[WolfBaginski Bearsfoot]

One of the problems for those of us outside the USA is that we have to convert between USD and our local currency, and lose out on every transaction. Some of the rates used can be seriously adrift from the exchange rate the banks can get, and we cannot easily discover it in advance. The third-party exchanges, which will accept my currency, are doing the same setting of a margin to cover their costs, and make a profit, which is why the :Lindens can say we get a better deal on the Lindex. But the chain from my bank account to Linden Labs is what matters to me, and I confess I have my doubts about some parts of that chain.

The last time my Premium payment came due, the transaction failed. I got the money to Linden Labs by another route, but nobody seemed to know the reason for the failure, and a few days later I got a letter from my bank reminding me that I should tell them before I went to the USA.

Linden Labs are saying the third-party exchanges cannot be trusted any more. My experience suggests that the European banks are getting a bit wary of making payments to the USA, and we do seem to have more security measures on transactions.

Instant cashout doesn't matter to me. Linden Labs doesn't get enough money from me to be worth fussing pver. But several hundred USD per month, in or out, would be enough to make me wonder how much I should trust them. Some of you guys are getting my money, and I hope you can still see real money in your bank account. Or will we all owe our souls to the company store?

[Flame Swenholt]

I rely on cash outs from Second Life to pay a good majority of my bills and to help with other every day expenses. LindeX's unreliability in timing is something I cannot, and will not, tolerate under any given circumstance. I have been using Virwox for several years now when I need the money immediately and with this update to the TOS, I am not pleased at all.

Many companies do business outside of the main Second Life grid. This is a fact, much like many other real world companies doing business outside of their home countries. Virwox is a standing point between a good few grids that enabled simple conversions between the various currencies. While I have not used Virwox for cross grid commerce, I have used it for the one thing that is the topic of the post: Instant cash out.

I find it hard for Linden Lab to not include this as a feature, even if it was made as a premium feature, which would mean more users being premium, and more money in their own pockets (which hey, since when does a company not want more money in their pockets?). I have, at times, been held back a solid month in a withdraw, and Virwox was there to help.

So, to Linden Lab, I have to say this:

If you want your users, be it residents who add to the money pool or to the creators who give reason for the money pool to exist, I'd suggest revising your Terms of Service and/or revising your own LindeX systems to be better beneficial to your users. The very users you are effecting may still use other services, despite being against the Terms of Service, due to the problems still in your own system. Instant cash out is a priority to many business owners, and if it was added as a premium feature, the number of premium accounts would rise and the positive feedback should rise accordingly. Until then, only expect the worse, because that is all the change will do.

[WolfBaginski Bearsfoot]

I am not convinced that any of this does add security. I'm not sure we have less security, but LL makes no guarantee of what a L$ is worth. It's just what other residents are willing to pay. And the third-party exchanges depended on the same principle. I buy L$ from Virwox, and somebody has to have sold them to Virwox.

 

 

[Ciaran Laval]

You may need a verified Paypal account to be able to cash out, but there's no issue with cashing out to Paypal from Europe in general.

[Perrie Juran]

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arton Rotaru wrote:

Yeah, looks like they removed the Risk API, and you do at your own risk when using a third party exchange.

---

You still proceeded at your own risk when you used them:  Linden Lab never 'guaranteed' them.

But it looks like they are now washing their hands completely of any responsibility.

 

Regardless, I can still find no reference to their use NOT BEING ALLOWED.

[Ciaran Laval]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

arton Rotaru wrote:

Yeah, looks like they removed the Risk API, and you do at your own risk when using a third party exchange.

---

You still proceeded at your own risk when you used them:  Linden Lab never 'guaranteed' them.

But it looks like they are now washing their hands completely of any responsibility.

 

Regardless, I can still find no reference to their use NOT BEING ALLOWED.

---

The Blog Post says:

"the updated Terms of Service make it clear that trading of Linden dollars (L$) on exchanges other than the LindeX, Second Life’s official L$ exchange, is not authorized or allowed."

The Terms of Service make no reference whatsoever to it not being allowed. They seem to have a strange definition of making things clear.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Ciaran Laval wrote:

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

arton Rotaru wrote:

Yeah, looks like they removed the Risk API, and you do at your own risk when using a third party exchange.

---

You still proceeded at your own risk when you used them:  Linden Lab never 'guaranteed' them.

But it looks like they are now washing their hands completely of any responsibility.

 

Regardless, I can still find no reference to their use NOT BEING ALLOWED.

---

The Blog Post says:

"

the updated Terms of Service make it clear that trading of Linden dollars (L$) on exchanges other than the LindeX, Second Life’s official L$ exchange, is 

not authorized or allowed

.

"

The Terms of Service make no reference whatsoever to it not being allowed. They seem to have a strange definition of making things clear.

---

I was just wondering what Anshe Chung's reaction would be to being told by LL that they were killing The Anshex.

[Jaimy Hancroft]

I have been using a third party because in our country not every random person can easily get a credit card in here, because they are more secure about it, my mom doesnt even own a credit card.. its not a normal thing here like in the US where you get a credit card going trough  freakin carwash or whatever lol. i tried using lindex before in the past using a verified paypal , i verified it with my bank account, but LL doesnt allow it to go trough unless the paypal is linked to a credit card .. so i had no way of exchanging unless it was trough a third party.

im pretty sure im not the only one with this problem. any  suggestions? i cant get a cc here .. so .. my opinion if LL wouldnt allow third parties anymore i think they should atleast allso  give more options to EU users to exchange lindens trough banking or checking accounts and not just credit cards