Does anyone else think we need more than 42 group spaces?!?!

[Ren Toxx]

I still prefer that Linden Labs significantly reduce the group chat lag issue before even considering increasing the group limit number.

And I don't care to vent.

[Bobbie Faulds]

The chat lag issue is because of the way groups work. Each message is attempted to be sent to every member of the group. The servers have to check if they are online or not. Then they have to locate what sim the player is in. Then it can send the message. That's why it's worse in larger groups or groups with a lot of players online. It also gets worse at the prime time of 4PM SLT to 8PM SLT since that seems to be when the most players are online.

LL is doing what they can. However, a part of it is just the way the groups work and there is really only just so much that they can do.

That being said, if you are in a group that you are in just for announcements and not for promotional gifts or the chat, see if they have a subscribomatic and join that way. It will save your groups for those you are interested in and save the servers when you aren't interested in chat.

[Aislin Ceawlin]

Was't the limit 20 something for a long time?

[Aislin Ceawlin]

Thanks Perrie, you answered my question...I thought I remembered the number being raised!

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Bobbie Faulds wrote:

...

That being said, if you are in a group that you are in just for announcements and not for promotional gifts or the chat, see if they have a subscribomatic and join that way. It will save your groups for those you are interested in and save the servers when you aren't interested in chat.

---

Most subscription services have the ability to send out group gifts to subscribers too, and a wise store owner will do that.  Nothing is more frustrating than not having enough group space to join a group so you subscribe instead only to get a message that a great group gift was send out in the group, but nothing to subscibers. 

[Aethelwine]

I have officer priveleges I need for roles and maintenance jobs. Others like Karyn's I stay in because that is how she sends out product updates. And others I paid to join because that is their income model. I have about 5 left to juggle around for group gifts or offers. A few more would make things alot easier.

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Scotty Everett wrote:

42 is a very Douglas Adams number though.

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I always thought that was the reason.   (Exactly, 42....and 40 or 43  ; )

[Phil Deakins]

I haven't read much of this thread but I've read enough to know that some people claim to need to be in more than 42 groups for various reasons. Quite frankly, I don't believe a word of it. I don't believe that anyone has active use of 42 groups now, so I don't accept that more are needed. I strongly suspect that those who feel they need more are treating groups like an inventory of groups. I.e. stuff in it hasn't been used for ages but don't delete it on the offchance that it may be used sometime in the future. I'm sorry, but I don't swallow the need that some people claim, and I do believe that 42 is more than enough for anyone..

[Rosie Eun]

Oh good.  Another petulant demand from someone who feels they should be gratified in their every SL whim.

 I generally ignore these threads, but this phrase really caught my eye:

       Seriously, if i wanna belong to 100 groups then why can't I????

Seriously, D1D12266, because the system won't let you.  If you don't like that, perhaps you could set up your own virtual world with unlimited group slots.  Now please stop whining. 

[Coby Foden]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

I haven't read much of this thread but I've read enough to know that some people claim to need to be in more than 42 groups for various reasons. Quite frankly, I don't believe a word of it.

---

But you're a man! You have no idea what is enough for a woman. :smileyvery-happy: :smileywink:

This is not a matter of belief. Quite regurlarly I need to unjoin some groups to make room for new ones. Then there are groups with join fee, once joined one does not want to unjoin those. And there are groups when one joined were free to join and now have a join fee. One does not want to unjoin those either.

You may believe what ever you want, but it does not change the fact in any way.

Some people would be happy with more, some are happy with the present limit.

[Bobbie Faulds]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

I haven't read much of this thread but I've read enough to know that some people claim to need to be in more than 42 groups for various reasons. Quite frankly, I don't believe a word of it. I don't believe that anyone has active use of 42 groups now, so I don't accept that more are needed. I strongly suspect that those who feel they need more are treating groups like an inventory of groups. I.e. stuff in it hasn't been used for ages but don't delete it on the offchance that it may be used sometime in the future. I'm sorry, but I don't swallow the need that some people claim, and I do believe that 42 is more than enough for anyone..

---

Actually, I could use more than 42, but I can manage. Why do I need more? Well I'm an admin in an RP sim. This means that 15 of my groups are used up by the groups I have to be in as an admin for the sim. This leaves me with 27 groups. Thankfully we have 42 or I'd be SOL on this avi for the groups I do belong to as they are all active. Some I have paid for that I get monthly group gifts with. The owners of those groups use that model to keep those that are really interested in the group and aren't just after freebies. Too many will join the subscribo, get the gift and then unsubscribe. On my business alt, I have groups I have to be in for hunts and for business reasons. For instance, I make shapes so I'm in Skin Addiction, a group devoted to skin lovers, to get the latest on various skins. I also belong to the groups for my favorite skins. I could ask skin makers if I could get promo skins to use in my ads since I include a style card with every shape, but I don't.

There are reasons for wanting more, but I manage with the 42 I have.

[Phil Deakins]

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Coby Foden wrote:

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

I haven't read much of this thread but I've read enough to know that some people claim to need to be in more than 42 groups for various reasons. Quite frankly, I don't believe a word of it.

---

But you're a man! You have no idea what is enough for a woman. :smileyvery-happy: :smileywink:

This is not a matter of belief. Quite regurlarly I need to unjoin some groups to make room for new ones. Then there are groups with join fee, once joined one does not want to unjoin those. And there are groups when one joined were free to join and now have a join fee. One does not want to unjoin those either.

You may believe what ever you want, but it does not change the fact in any way.

Some people would be happy with more, some are happy with the present limit.

---

Alright, Coby, my love Would you mind listing the groups you are in - in generic terms; e.g 1 for accommodation, 5 for clothes stores, 4 for singers that I follow, stuff like that. I'm very curious to know how anyone could possibly be actively involved in 42 groups.

[Bobbie Faulds]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

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Coby Foden wrote:

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Phil Deakins wrote:

I haven't read much of this thread but I've read enough to know that some people claim to need to be in more than 42 groups for various reasons. Quite frankly, I don't believe a word of it.

---

But you're a man! You have no idea what is enough for a woman. :smileyvery-happy: :smileywink:

This is not a matter of belief. Quite regurlarly I need to unjoin some groups to make room for new ones. Then there are groups with join fee, once joined one does not want to unjoin those. And there are groups when one joined were free to join and now have a join fee. One does not want to unjoin those either.

You may believe what ever you want, but it does not change the fact in any way.

Some people would be happy with more, some are happy with the present limit.

---

Alright, Coby, my love

Would you mind listing the groups you are in - in generic terms; e.g 1 for accommodation, 5 for clothes stores, 4 for singers that I follow, stuff like that. I'm very curious to know how anyone could possibly be actively involved in 42 groups.

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I have 40 total gorups. 16 are fashion/skin related 7 of which I paid for,  I have 5 that are building related, and 19 related to the sim I'm an admin in that I have to be in.

[Phil Deakins]

Thank you for that, Bobbie.

I'd imagine that 19 groups is very excessive just to run a sim but, if that's how the owner has set things up, I can't argue with it. However, I think it's safe to say that almost all of those 19 wouldn't be needed by most sim admins and people.

About the 16 skin and fashion groups, my guess is that most of them are unnecessary, and that you're only in them to get notifications of new items. If that's true, then one could join all the skin and fashion groups and say that they are necessary. I.e. one could say that 100 groups wouldn't be enough.

I know that we can join a heck of a lot of groups, but I'm sure it's safe to say that it isn't necessary - at least not so needful as to claim that we need a lot more group slots. There are other ways of keeping tabs on what's new out there.

[Coby Foden]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

 

Alright, Coby, my love

Would you mind listing the groups you are in - in generic terms; e.g 1 for accommodation, 5 for clothes stores, 4 for singers that I follow, stuff like that. I'm very curious to know how anyone could possibly be actively involved in 42 groups.

---

Five groups only for clothes stores? :smileysurprised:  Phil!

Woman's world is quite different. :matte-motes-big-grin:

Well, here are some group categories in which I usually belong:

 

• Clothing store groups

• Skin store groups

• Hair store groups

• Jewelry store groups

• Live concert groups

• Events groups

• Specific location groups

• Sailing groups

• Content creation groups

• Animation groups

• A forum group (yes, there exists even such one)

• Viewer groups

• Hunt groups

• Sandbox groups

Yes, I do need all of those. My group count always hovers near 42. If there is need to join some, which happens now and then, I must unjoin some groups to be able to join new ones. Some groups I join are throw away ones, needed only for short time for some specific purpose. Anyway as my groups count is always near the limit, I would be happy with more groups. I can survive with 42 - it's not a question of that. Anyway, that limit is always a nuisance when there is a need to join some new ones.

What I try to do now is to keep the group count at 38 or bit below so there is room for additional groups. It is very frustrating if the group count is full and one in a hurry unjoins accidently a wrong group (like a group with join fee for example).

[Perrie Juran]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

I haven't read much of this thread but I've read enough to know that some people claim to need to be in more than 42 groups for various reasons. Quite frankly, I don't believe a word of it. I don't believe that anyone has active use of 42 groups now, so I don't accept that more are needed. I strongly suspect that those who feel they need more are treating groups like an inventory of groups. I.e. stuff in it hasn't been used for ages but don't delete it on the offchance that it may be used sometime in the future. I'm sorry, but I don't swallow the need that some people claim, and I do believe that 42 is more than enough for anyone..

---

I'm copying this from over in the other thread in an attempt to keep the discussion in one place:

 

---

Ren Toxx wrote:

Since Amethyst already pointed out a recent thread where all this was discussed, including the reasons against blindly raising the limit, I'll just repeat my answer here:

NO

, not until Linden Labs properly fixes those issues... and I might add: not until we, the residents, do our part too and stop using groups for things they weren't meant for.

---

 First off some of us understood and I hope anyone reading this thread now grasps that the primary reason for the cap on groups is Server Load.  Some have suggested LL should just throw more/better hardware at it.  If it really was that simple honestly I'd think LL would do that.  Weigh the cost (salary) of Software Engineers against the cost of Servers.  What they don't understand is that nothing scales indefinitely.   Even Moore acknowledges this with Moore's Law.  He stated it can't go on indefinitely.  Eventually it is going to collapse under it's own weight.

That's the challenge LL faces:  Keeping this from collapsing.  And not only that, but improving it.

It could be argued that the current system needs to be ripped out and replaced with a new system.  It would be like doing a heart transplant in SL.  Doable but I don't think any of us know what the complications are.

But really wanted to post about was this whole "need and want" thing.

I'd like to have more Groups too.

While it is true that Groups were originally intended for Land Management at some point in time they started being used for other things some of which are even encouraged by LL now.  (Which is why I copied Ren's post over here, I was wondering what some of the  things "they weren't meant for" are?)

Groups get used for the original purpose, Land Mgt.  (I'm in eight myself for this purpose).

Groups get used by Merchants, Clubs, DJ's to promote their Businesses.  LL is accepting this use.

Groups get used for purely Social reasons, connecting people with like interests, a practice even encouraged by LL.

So there are a lot of different things that we connect to via Groups and I'm sure more things could be added to this list.  So I'd have to ask, what would be easier for LL to manage:  One function, "Groups," to cover all or different functions customised to the varied needs?  I don't know myself.

But because Groups do cover so many aspects of SL I don't Carte Blanche dismiss the need for more.  My groups are maxed out and every Group that I am in contributes to my SL. 

Lastly, on a side note, the subscribomatic thing.  While it is true that if all I want is notices, like a Merchants new releases or a Club's schedule, they are a nice substitute for Groups, do not think that they come with out Server Load.  LL did recently have to impose rules on Bot's, etc, sending messages because of the impact on the Servers.

 

[Phil Deakins]

Thank you, Coby. I'll suggest that you don't need most of those groups - almost all of the fashion ones, for instance. I suggest they are for convenience - e.g. for receiving notifications of new stuff instead of doing regular trips to have a look. I'll also suggest that, if we could have 60 group slots, or 80, you'd top your groups up to 58 or 78 with even more fashion groups - because you can.

I know that notifications are useful. They save some time when keeping up to date. But they aren't needed. If they were needed, then doubling the number of group slots wouldn't be enough for many people.

There's an old saying that work expands to fill the time available for it. I'll suggest here that the number of groups 'needed' expands to fill the number of slots available for them. You used to manage with 25 slots, perhaps with some difficulty. Now you manage with 40 slots, also with some difficulty. If we had 60 or 80 slots, you'd manage with those too but with some difficulty. That's what I'm suggesting - most of the groups are not necessray for you. Useful, yes, but not necessary.

[Coby Foden]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

 

That's what I'm suggesting - most of the groups are not necessray for you. Useful, yes, but not necessary.

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Phil, please stop editing your post while I'm replying to it. :smileyindifferent:  Thanks. :smileyvery-happy: :smileytongue:

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Thank you, Coby. I'll suggest that you don't need most of those groups - almost all of the fashion ones, for instance. I suggest they are for convenience - e.g. for receiving notifications of new stuff instead of doing regular trips to have a look. I'll also suggest that, if we could have 60 group slots, or 80, you'd top your groups up to 58 or 78 with even more fashion groups - because you can.

I know that notifications are useful. They save some time when keeping up to date. But they aren't needed. If they were needed, then doubling the number of group slots wouldn't be enough for many people.

There's an old saying that work expands to fill the time available for it. I'll suggest here that the number of groups 'needed' expands to fill the number of slots available for them. You used to manage with 25 slots, perhaps with some difficulty. Now you manage with 40 slots, also with some difficulty. If we had 60 or 80 slots, you'd manage with those too but with some difficulty. That's what I'm suggesting - most of the groups are not necessray for you. Useful, yes, but not necessary.

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OK, we could state that the only TRUE NEED for a group is Land Management because that is the way LL set it up unless I want to leave access to my land and the ability to build, etc, etc, etc, wide open to everyone.

All other Groups are a matter of usefulness and in this regard it gives me simplified one stop shopping.

And while I may think that being in a hundred groups may be crazy,  that still does not give me the right to determine their usefulness to another person.  That is their right to determine.

[Stormm Firecaster]

Almost every group I have is building related and paid spots.  I hate leaving a group I had to pay to get into to join another group that you have to pay to get into to get the benefits of that group.  Being a builder, there are tons of amazing groups where once joined you get not only the help of the creator of said group for their particular creations, but tons of free incentives to be a part of their group.  So, yes, I think group space should at least double.  It has been years since we have had an increase and for creators especially, it just makes sense.

[Bobbie Faulds]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Thank you for that, Bobbie.

I'd imagine that 19 groups is very excessive just to run a sim but, if that's how the owner has set things up, I can't argue with it. However, I think it's safe to say that almost all of those 19 wouldn't be needed by most sim admins and people.

About the 16 skin and fashion groups, my guess is that most of them are unnecessary, and that you're only in them to get notifications of new items. If that's true, then one could join all the skin and fashion groups and say that they are necessary. I.e. one could say that 100 groups wouldn't be enough.

I know that we can join a heck of a lot of groups, but I'm sure it's safe to say that it isn't necessary - at least not so needful as to claim that we need a lot more group slots. There are other ways of keeping tabs on what's new out there.

---

For the RP sim, you have the land group, the OOC and emergency, admin, mentor, race, owners group, weapons group, class group, just to mention a few of the ones needed. As for the fashion groups, 2 are skin groups I paid to join and get free gifts monthly, one is a general skin group, etc. I blog fashion so need to be in these. I have others that I spread out on alts so I could be in them. From your POV, they may not be NEEDED, but it depends on why you are in them.

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Bobbie Faulds wrote:

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Thank you for that, Bobbie.

I'd imagine that 19 groups is very excessive just to run a sim but, if that's how the owner has set things up, I can't argue with it. However, I think it's safe to say that almost all of those 19 wouldn't be needed by most sim admins and people.

About the 16 skin and fashion groups, my guess is that most of them are unnecessary, and that you're only in them to get notifications of new items. If that's true, then one could join all the skin and fashion groups and say that they are necessary. I.e. one could say that 100 groups wouldn't be enough.

I know that we can join a heck of a lot of groups, but I'm sure it's safe to say that it isn't necessary - at least not so needful as to claim that we need a lot more group slots. There are other ways of keeping tabs on what's new out there.

---

For the RP sim, you have the land group, the OOC and emergency, admin, mentor, race, owners group, weapons group, class group, just to mention a few of the ones needed. As for the fashion groups, 2 are skin groups I paid to join and get free gifts monthly, one is a general skin group, etc. I blog fashion so need to be in these. I have others that I spread out on alts so I could be in them. From your POV, they may not be NEEDED, but it depends on why you are in them.

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Stop trying to defend yourself, Bobbie.  Everyone knows that Phil's opinion is the only one with any shred of validity and that disagreeing with him only exposes your self-induced delusion that what he says isn't actually exactly how you feel as well.  Once you realize that Phil is always right, you'll be much happier with your life... and so will he.

...Dres

[Phil Deakins]

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:

Stop trying to defend yourself, Bobbie.  Everyone knows that Phil's opinion is the only one with any shred of validity and that disagreeing with him only exposes your self-induced delusion that what he says isn't actually exactly how you feel as well.  Once you realize that Phil is always right, you'll be much happier with your life... and so will he.

---

Realising it must have improved your life, causing you to heap such praise on me. I'm so glad I was able to help you. Don't be afraid to ask for more help in the future.

[mylittleboyblue]

I would love to see the group limit go up, but  I agree with others have stated in previous post, groups should be fixed first. I assume LL wouldn't up the limit until they are are the server could handle it.

 

P.S I've noticed more designers are using a system that allows you to subscribe for updates. You get them inworld and via email, instead of joining a group. So, maybe that will become more and more popular and will give shoppers less of a need to join groups for shopping and more space for whatever else they might need it for.

[Brooke323]

im not even close to having 42 groups & i have been deleting groups in order to join another! (( i came here bcaz i accidently deleted a group inwhich i paid 400L to join (( i want it back without paying another 400L..plseee someone help me!!! & hw do i make it so i can add more groups..i get a popup that states i cant add more groups & i prob only have 20 or slightly more! so plseee hw do i get bk in the group i deleted without paying 400L which i just deleted an hour ago & how can i make it so i can join more groups without a popup telling me to delete a group in order to join another ?? ill appreciate it so much if some1 can help me TY!!!