Child avatars in Slavery/BDSM

[Lucretia Brandenburg]

OK, that's good to know! This is the impression I've gotten when out furniture shopping, and I do alot of shopping for furniture. I have noticed pg and x rated versions of the same beds which is a good alternative. Though really, it's just decor for me, I haven't used a bed in SL for quite some time, a bedroom just looks nice with a bed in it. I think there are far more people in SL not interested in sexual activity than is the perception others have about SL (raising my hand here).

[Lucretia Brandenburg]

This entire thread and the side discussions reminds me of arguing rules with a teenager. They're very fond of stating rules and saying "TECHNICALLY that's not stated in the rules so really I should be able to do this or that" and then are full of indignant outrage when they're called on behavior not clearly stated in the rules they technically aren't breaking.

As for a child avatar trussed up in bondage without witnessing any actual virtual sexual activity ... if a woman's husband comes home late, reeking of some other woman's perfume and with lipstick smears on his underwear, the woman doesn't need to see the old in and out so to speak without a fairly good idea that someone other than her has been having sex with her husband, unless you define sexual relations in a very Clintonesque fashion, which is itself splitting hairs.

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Lucretia Brandenburg wrote:

I read the age play policy and thought it was crystal clear. Then I read it again and it wasn't so clear ...

Promoting or catering to such behavior or representations violates our Community Standards. For instance, the

placement of avatars appearing to represent minors in proximity to "sex beds"

or other sexualized graphics, objects, or scripts would violate our Community Standards

,

as would the placement of sexualized "pose balls" or other content in areas depicting playgrounds or children's spaces.

The part I underlined is the part that seems open to some interpretation. "other sexualized graphics, objects or scripts" ... most beds have sex animations, as another person started a thread elsewhere complained about. I too have run into difficulty finding a PG bathroom (finally did after a long search). So what is a sex bed? If a bed has sex animations but isn't used for sex, if there are no sexualized graphics or objects or scripts running, is it a sex bed?

Not trying to be argumentative here, it just struck me as interesting that something I thought to be crystal clear can be interpreted differently. It reminds me a bit of the signs you can see in furniture stores saying that to try out the furniture, people have to be fully clothed. As if it's not sex with one's clothes on.

---

let me say it this way..

 

let's say i was a child avatar..

here is what i am allowed to do..

say i walk into a mall in an adult sim..

 

I can walk over  to a sex bed..i can touch the bed to bring up the menu to see what all comes with the bed..

i can click on the buttons to see where the pose balls pop up..

i can even buy the bed..

all this while standing right next to it..

 

why would a child avatar buy a sex bed?

because it only takes two second to not be a child avatar..it could be part time role play,,

 

what i cannot do is stand there asking  people to have sex with me on this bed..

that is a child avatar promoting sexual age play..

 

someone setting up an area to have sex with child avatas is catering to sexual age play with avatars that represent a child..

 

if you only use the middle of that rule..it makes it sound like any child avatar cannot stand next to a sex bed..it becomes a whole other rule now..

the "for instance" or  the" in other words" or "for example" gets muted as well as  the core of the rule at the start..

these are important  parts when reading this rule because it leads into an example to explain the rule..

for instance

in other words

for example

the placement of avatars appearing to represent minors in proximity to "sex beds" or other sexualized graphics, objects, or scripts would violate our Community Standards, as would the placement of sexualized "pose balls" or other content in areas depicting playgrounds or children's spaces.

example of what?

(this is the core of the rule)..Promoting or catering to such behavior or representations that violate  our Community Standards.

a child avatar standing next to a sex bed is not doing anything wrong..it's their actions that would determine if they were breaking this rule or not.. not just being there..

 

it is for those that promote and cater those things..that could be an avatar or a sim owner or  business  or an rp area ect..

 

it is about the promotion or catering to or of those things..

not about  standing around shopping  or  ending up next to a sex bed..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Lucretia Brandenburg wrote:

This entire thread and the side discussions reminds me of arguing rules with a teenager. They're very fond of stating rules and saying "TECHNICALLY that's not stated in the rules so really I should be able to do this or that" and then are full of indignant outrage when they're called on behavior not clearly stated in the rules they technically aren't breaking.

As for a child avatar trussed up in bondage without witnessing any actual virtual sexual activity ... if a woman's husband comes home late, reeking of some other woman's perfume and with lipstick smears on his underwear, the woman doesn't need to see the old in and out so to speak without a fairly good idea that someone other than her has been having sex with her husband, unless you define sexual relations in a very Clintonesque fashion, which is itself splitting hairs.

---

ya they don't get very far doing that  lol

i think it's a lot of people just bored looking to add excitement to their lives to see what they can get away with..that or try to find some loophole so they can say told ya so lol

the real world systems are over clogged with this kind of useless time wasting..

it ends up making more red tape than we need hehehe

 

EDIT: let me just say i was responding to the first part of yourpost about the skirting of rules..this was not about  the child avatar part..hehehehe

just want to make that clear lol

i kind of covered anything to do with how the rule works in the post above this one..

i really don't feel the need to put an opinion of what i think about child avatars in here..

just trying to stick to the basics as much as possible..hehehehe

[Bryce Kidd]

Disclaiming: I play as a Kid.

The Lindens can never make this policy crytal clear as that then gives them zero wriggle room. By keeping it vaugue and unclearly worded they have the freedom to take harsh action if something is borderline. As annoying as this is for adult players, it's the best way.

One needs to think back to 2007 and what brought this all about. Robin Linden, one of the directors was filmed for German TV looking at the game, there was a close up picture of her looking shocked. At the time the place in question was Camp LaLinda a group that was openly advertising itself as a place for perverts to come have sex with little girls. The rules at that time were too firm. There was no ability for the Lindens to close this abhorrent place.

There was much stink, kids were banned from SL5B. A notecard was sent out that was very ambiguous and things were quite up in the air.

It later came out that the German shock-news-show showed Robin some real life child pornography which is abhorent, disgusting and illegal to get the shocked reaction.

Sky news did the same, they sent an avatar into the game to look for paedophillia, found none, so made her a child and sent her into adult regions to solicit sex.

A lot of people get offended by the thought of something (not someone, something) that looks like a child even considering sex. They might be shocked to look at Japanese Shota (NSFW: Wikipedia article on children having sex in comics with sexualised clothed pictures) for example.

 

We know this. Well the responsible kids, those who own regions, and most certainly the well known ones. We are very sensative to the rules, probbaly overly so, and very very aware of people's sensabilities.

But despite their ambiguities the guidelines we kids (and I don't speak for all, if in fact any) are clear. We CAN be in an adult region, but not on a sex bed. (I camera shop so there is no mistake, but generally will wear my non-child form out of respect to other people's feelings, I and I think we ALL know some people can't deal with this imagery) We also CAN have sex beds in our houses. It is expected that we wear an adult shape for sex, I and everyone I know does. Why can we, because it is behind closed doors.

Now for me what is stuck in my mind about what is stuck in my mind about what TristanMercer says, and being an active and responsible part of this society in second life, is there are no well known kid oriented sims with 7 year old owners. AND every single owner I know would be very sure to realise that being on any form of Devpose would be rather stupid in public view, especially with them - the well known Kid - being tied up publically.

I am sorry to say it, and I am not trying to take this off topic, but there is a huge doubt in my mind as to the veracity of the OPs claim, however, to keep it on topic, a Kid can try on a skin and be naked in an adult region (with parts on display - but I think most of us are decent and sensative enough not to do that but instead look genderless with a skin) We can be in Sensations buying sex objects. We even can buy a skybox with sexual poses installed. Again, I and I think most reasonable Kids would camera shop without leaving the centre area or put on our other avatar. Importantly the "Behind closed doors" policy needs to be taken into account. It would be good for you all to read it.

I own regions aimed at kids in SecondLife. I am actively in contact with many of well known kids in Second Life none are seven. I am also quite aware of and have secondary links to the other major well known Kids. Again, none are seven. I am very concerned if one of ours has done this as I dislike these witch hunts immensly. The time around SL5B was not pleasant for me and I am sure not pleasant for many Kids. Adults can be closed minded, abusive and down right nasty when they have their hackles up about perceived wrong doings by something that resembles a child.

I hope, no I pray, the OP reported this to the Lindens to that they can ban the person if fit - the issue can go back to sleep for another few months - and we can all resume having fun in avatars that are not 7' tall.

 

I actually expect to be abused for even writing this stuff, but the Lindens do BAN kids engaging in open sex. I know people who have been IP banned. Talk of them never doing anything with valid reports is incorrect, it's more related i think to the reporter being overly sensative, overstating the truth or not providing enough details. I'd love the OP to message me the name of the person tied up so that it can be dealt with internally. I would see it gets to the right people, and to the Lindens.

99.9% of us are not monsters, and we actually DO care what you think about us and act with as much respect as we can. We try hard to ensure that new people coming in as kids are quicky aware that many people take second life seriously and see us as real children and to have a little respect for you. Unfortunately, as in every community in second life there are a tiny number who are psychos and need removing.

I really ask that if you genuinely see a Kid having open sex you report it properly and let the Lindens deal with it. They have the logs. We know this for a fact. They know every thing we say, evry animation we played/had played, what we were wearing at the time and do and can absolutely back up the veracity of your AR. But please don't go on a witch hunt.

By all means use your personal interpretation of the rules as a basis for your an AR. If your interpretation is wrong nothing will happen, you were too sensative. If the wrongdoer is banned, good, it's one less of them for us to watch out for. We can have more fun by not needing to worry about them making us look bad.

Discussing the finer points of what is meant though is tying the Lindens down to a Gorean bondage device. It doesn't allow them to bend their very own rules to take into account things like Camp Lalinda back in 2007.

Just report away and move on with your SecondLife knowing you did the right thing in your mind, let the Lindens decide on their own. Thats my advice anyway. Please, no abuse. I don't need it.

Also please don't think I have any real voice in Kid society, we are a bit like Anonymous in that. It's a large group of people with no real leader but with loosely tied smaller leaders who all partially talk to one another. I am sure some of the people who think they lead will take umbrage at my words, but that's the way it works.

I do repeat though that most of us are trying hard to deal with these miscreants internally, to think one of the leaders (again I don't know any who are 7) has surprised me, and a few people I know well. We'd like to get to the bottom of it to make sure nobody else gets offended, and I think, no that's too strong. I would hope you could appreciate that.

I don't want that in my community, I dislike witch hunts. I dislike these threads on the forum. They just cause people who play Adults to get upset and hateful towards people who play Kids.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Bryce Kidd wrote:

Disclaiming: I play as a Kid.

The Lindens can never make this policy crytal clear as that then gives them zero wriggle room. By keeping it vaugue and unclearly worded they have the freedom to take harsh action if something is borderline. As annoying as this is for adult players, it's the best way.

One needs to think back to 2007 and what brought this all about. Robin Linden, one of the directors was filmed for German TV looking at the game, there was a close up picture of her looking shocked. At the time the place in question was Camp LaLinda a group that was openly advertising itself as a place for perverts to come have sex with little girls. The rules at that time were too firm. There was no ability for the Lindens to close this abhorrent place.

There was much stink, kids were banned from SL5B. A notecard was sent out that was very ambiguous and things were quite up in the air.

It later came out that the German shock-news-show showed Robin some real life child pornography which is abhorent, disgusting and illegal to get the shocked reaction.

Sky news did the same, they sent an avatar into the game to look for paedophillia, found none, so made her a child and sent her into adult regions to solicit sex.

A lot of people get offended by the thought of

something

 (not someone,

something

) that looks like a child even considering sex. They might be shocked to look at

Japanese Shota

 (NSFW: Wikipedia article on children having sex in comics with sexualised clothed 

pictures)

for example.

 

We know this. Well the responsible kids, those who own regions, and

most certainly

the well known ones. We are very sensative to the rules, probbaly overly so, and very very aware of people's sensabilities.

But despite their ambiguities the guidelines we kids (and I don't speak for all,

if in fact any

) are clear. We CAN be in an adult region, but not on a sex bed. (I camera shop so there is no mistake, but generally will wear my non-child form out of respect to other people's feelings, I and I think we ALL know some people can't deal with this imagery) We also CAN have sex beds in our houses. It is expected that we wear an adult shape for sex, I and everyone I know does. Why can we, because it is behind closed doors.

Now for me what is stuck in my mind about what is stuck in my mind about what

TristanMercer

 says, and being an active and responsible part of this society in second life, is there are no well known kid oriented sims with 7 year old owners. AND every single owner I know would be very sure to realise that being on any form of Devpose would be rather stupid in public view, especially with them - the well known Kid - being tied up publically.

I am sorry to say it, and I am not trying to take this off topic, but there is a huge doubt in my mind as to the veracity of the OPs claim, however, to keep it on topic, a Kid can try on a skin and be naked in an adult region (with parts on display - but I think most of us are decent and sensative enough not to do that but instead look genderless with a skin) We can be in Sensations buying sex objects. We even can buy a skybox with sexual poses installed. Again, I and I think most reasonable Kids would camera shop without leaving the centre area or put on our other avatar. 

Importantly the "Behind closed doors" policy needs to be taken into account. It would be good for you all to read it.

I own regions aimed at kids in SecondLife. I am actively in contact with many of well known kids in Second Life

none are seven

. I am also quite aware of and have secondary links to the other major well known Kids. Again, none are seven. I am very concerned if one of ours has done this as I dislike these witch hunts immensly. The time around SL5B was not pleasant for me and I am sure not pleasant for many Kids. Adults can be closed minded, abusive and down right nasty when they have their hackles up about perceived wrong doings by

something

that resembles a child.

I hope, no I pray, the OP reported this to the Lindens to that they can ban the person if fit

- the issue can go back to sleep for another few months - and we can all resume having fun in avatars that are not 7' tall.

 

I actually expect to be abused for even writing this stuff, but the Lindens do BAN kids engaging in open sex. I know people who have been IP banned. Talk of them never doing anything with valid reports is incorrect, it's more related i think to the reporter being overly sensative, overstating the truth or not providing enough details. I'd love the OP to message me the name of the person tied up so that it can be dealt with internally. I would see it gets to the right people, and to the Lindens.

99.9% of us are not monsters, and we actually DO care what you think about us and act with as much respect as we can. We try hard to ensure that new people coming in as kids are quicky aware that many people take second life seriously and see us as real children and to have a little respect for you. Unfortunately, as in every community in second life there are a tiny number who are psychos and need removing.

I really ask that if you genuinely see a Kid having open sex you report it properly and let the Lindens deal with it. They have the logs. We know this for a fact. They know every thing we say, evry animation we played/had played, what we were wearing at the time and do and can absolutely back up the veracity of your AR. But please don't go on a witch hunt.

By all means use your personal interpretation of the rules as a basis for your an AR. If your interpretation is wrong nothing will happen, you were too sensative. If the wrongdoer is banned, good, it's one less of them for us to watch out for. We can have more fun by not needing to worry about them making us look bad.

Discussing the finer points of what is meant though is tying the Lindens down to a Gorean bondage device. It doesn't allow them to bend their very own rules to take into account things like Camp Lalinda back in 2007.

Just report away and move on with your SecondLife knowing you did the right thing in your mind, let the Lindens decide on their own. 

Thats my advice anyway. Please, no abuse. I don't need it.

Also please don't think I have any real voice in Kid society, we are a bit like Anonymous in that. It's a large group of people with no real leader but with loosely tied smaller leaders who all partially talk to one another. I am sure some of the people who think they lead will take umbrage at my words, but that's the way it works.

I do repeat though that most of us are trying hard to deal with these miscreants internally, to think one of the leaders (again I don't know any who are 7) has surprised me, and a few people I know well. We'd like to get to the bottom of it to make sure nobody else gets offended, and I think, no that's too strong. I would hope you could appreciate that.

I don't want that in my community, I dislike witch hunts. I dislike these threads on the forum. They just cause people who play Adults to get upset and hateful towards people who play Kids.

---

Thank you for your post.

As an Adult who is in SL to engage in among other things Adult Activities, personally I am not comfortable around child Ava's.  But I do totally support your right to "Your World, Your Imagination."

Whenever this subject comes up in the Forums my sensors go on high alert.  I dislike when SL gets described as a playground for pedophiles.  Especially when most of what I have read has only been innuendo.  And I remember quite well the flap back in 2007.

With 50,000 some odd people logged in to SL at any given time, it is simply not possible for LL to police what each and every person is doing.  Sadly there will be a few who will be doing things that they shouldn't and it hurts all of us.

I am certain that the vast majority of Children in SL are doing nothing more or less than just simply being children here.  Nothing wrong with that.  Heck, I play a Martian.  How strange is that?

[RiiCassidy]

Its not againist the TOS. Aslong as no sexual conduct was taking place. Thats all really clear on. I think it's a sterotype to think BDSM is all about sex personally, but i've never been into it. I don't like the idea, but as far as a i know, both of them are adults in real life, so i don't see why i should have to put my 2 cents in on the situation.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

---

RiiCassidy wrote:

Its not againist the TOS. Aslong as no sexual conduct was taking place. Thats all really clear on. I think it's a sterotype to think BDSM is all about sex personally, but i've never been into it. I don't like the idea, but as far as a i know, both of them are adults in real life, so i don't see why i should have to put my 2 cents in on the situation.

---

"The graphic depiction of children in a sexual or lewd manner violates our Community Standards."

 

Tied to a piece of  BD/SM furniture would be considered  lewd behavior.

[TristanMercer]

I said this avatar looked like they were 7 years old. Profile of this individual stated no age, but they do infact own a kid sim.

Did you know that you can easily disable camera restraints on Singularity? Basically you can cam an entire sim. Of course you cannot peek into parcels that have parcel privacy enabled.

I CANNOT name names on this forum of said people involved in this. They were using Devpose BDSM equipment with sex animations in it, even if they were not being used. This clearly goes against the ToS/CS and as such, said avatars were abuse reported.

Now you can see why most people have a thing against child avatars. There is very little common sense from the adults behind them. Just because you are over 18 in real life does not make it legit to do this kind of behavior.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

---

RiiCassidy wrote:

Its not againist the TOS. Aslong as no sexual conduct was taking place. Thats all really clear on. I think it's a sterotype to think BDSM is all about sex personally, but i've never been into it. I don't like the idea, but as far as a i know, both of them are adults in real life, so i don't see why i should have to put my 2 cents in on the situation.

---

"The graphic depiction of children in a sexual or lewd manner violates our Community Standards."

 

Tied to a piece of  BD/SM furniture would be considered  lewd behavior.

---

I'd suggest you look up the definition of "Lewd."

I was quite surprised myself.

[Marigold Devin]

I think you make a very brave first post, and I found it interesting to read your point of view. 

I am always dismayed when I see a child avatar letting their peers down. It is so easy for those who are absolutely against child avatars being in world to tar them all with the same brush, but people who do so are in the minority, I believe, so you need not fear adults who do not already dislike child avatars from turning against them.

Linden Lab perhaps need more events like SL10B where avatars from all walks of SLife actually mix a bit more, get rid of some of the prejudices that there are... but this is a wholly different topic, and I won't veer off from the topic a hand. 

The bottom line is, as several of us have already said throughout the thread, the OP should have submitted an abuse report to Linden Lab and let them decide.

 

 

[Daniel Regenbogen]

TristanMercer wrote: I CANNOT name names on this forum of said people involved in this. They were using Devpose BDSM equipment with sex animations in it, even if they were not being used. This clearly goes against the ToS/CS and as such, said avatars were abuse reported.

 

That's good, so you do the name and can update us if that person was disciplined (which in case of sexual ageplay will be the end of that account). If not, then I would say that LL checked closely, and maybe *do* make differences between being close to sexual stuff and actually using it.

 

I hope this is not against any rules, but I will copy&paste a support ticket question and the response from LL (names removed, not my ticket):

 

*.*.*

Details: There is no official policy statement on whether a child av is permitted to participate in the
activity described below.
NONSEXUAL bondage rp using cuffs, collars, cages, cells, leashes, blindfolds and gags to control, isolate, and
restrain the child av. Genital regions are fully covered before, during, after rp. No depiction of, reference to, or
description of sexual penetration, orgasm, sexual arousal, genitalia or fluid exchange before, during, or after rp.

 

Hello ***,
As we posted in our blog about Age Play, every report will be handled on a case-by-case basis. However, if there is
nothing sexual at all about the actions being taken, then I do not see any reason that you could not partake in the
actions you mention. I would make sure that if you do choose to partake in this that you are extremely careful and
not venture into the sensual/sexual side of bondage with child avatars.
Regards,
*** Linden

 

*.*.*

 

In general, this whole situation is borderline, and even if LL decides it is not against the TOS, I would definitely say it is stupid by the mentioned kid avatar to make himself so vulnerable by letting himself be caught. If nothing else, it makes the whole kids community look at least weird again, if not bad. We don't need that. About the ability to cam everywhere: in *that* case, no matter at all what was witnessed by invading the privacy of someone: shame on the invading person!

[Drake1 Nightfire]

---

Daniel Regenbogen wrote:

*.*.*

Details: There is no official policy statement on whether a child av is permitted to participate in the

activity described below.

NONSEXUAL bondage rp using cuffs, collars, cages, cells, leashes, blindfolds and gags to control, isolate, and

restrain the child av.

Genital regions are fully covered before, during, after rp. No depiction of, reference to, or description of sexual penetration, orgasm, sexual arousal, genitalia or fluid exchange before, during, or after rp.

 

Hello ***,

As we posted in our blog about Age Play, every report will be handled on a case-by-case basis. However, if there is nothing sexual at all about the actions being taken, then I do not see any reason that you could not partake in the actions you mention. I would make sure that if you do choose to partake in this that you are extremely careful and not venture into the sensual/sexual side of bondage with child avatars.

Regards,

*** Linden

---

 

 

 

They seriously need to reword their policy then.. BD/SM is all about being sensual. Deprivation, control, bondage, Domination, Punishment... It all has to to with senses and the reaction to them. I know plenty of people who can get off on just being bound and gagged.

If an adult av and a child av were in a private voice chat, and the child was bound and gagged to a BD/SM rack, how would LL know what was said in voice? They could be voice RPing the most heinous sexual acts possible and no one would be the wiser. I do not believe LL has the capability to record voice chat. There could be perfectly PG open chat and very sexual voice chat at the same time.

Child avs do not belong on ANY BD/SM equipment. Nor do they need to wear a gag or any other items.

[Daniel Regenbogen]

Drake, I don't know how it was in your RL childhood - in *mine* we played stuff like cowboys and indians, cops and robbers and so on. Games like that regulary involved stuff like tying up someone, "torturing", sometimes gagging. Heck, I personally witnessed how embarrassing it can be when the key to the handcuffs that were found in someones's parent's bedroom were missing, lol. (Thankfully I was one of those laughing, not one of those cuffed to each other.)

 

So I prefer it if those in power use common sense and look at what actually happened instead of what it *might* look like from the outside.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

---

Daniel Regenbogen wrote:

Drake, I don't know how it was in your RL childhood - in *mine* we played stuff like cowboys and indians, cops and robbers and so on. Games like that regulary involved stuff like tying up someone, "torturing", sometimes gagging. Heck, I personally witnessed how embarrassing it can be when the key to the handcuffs that were found in someones's parent's bedroom were missing, lol. (Thankfully I was one of those laughing, not one of those cuffed to each other.)

 

So I prefer it if those in power use common sense and look at what actually happened instead of what it *might* look like from the outside.

---

Yeah, i did all that too, but i never had an adult  involved.. My parents would have flipped if an adult was involved in tying us up. And there is a huge difference between a bunch of kids playing cops n robbers or cowboys and indians and an adult binding a child to a BD/SM rack... If you can't see that.. I feel sorry for you.

 

[Daniel Regenbogen]

I was answering to your "kids don't belong to anything near...", not to the part about an adult being involved. I'm totally with you that *such* a combination is much more critical (though I can imagine for example a scouts group inlcuding their scouts leader playing cowboy and indians). Once again: all depending on the actual situation, not on any dogmatic "if ... then".

[Leia36]

Daniel has an interesting profile......

[Drake1 Nightfire]

Kids don't belong on BD/SM equipment.. there is a huge difference between being tied up on the floor of your room while playing a game and being locked in a BD/Sm cross and flogged.

ETA, you obviously have never been in the Boy Scouts. Troop leaders are not allowed to "play" with the scouts.  They are NOT allowed to lay a single finger on them.

[TristanMercer]

I will never be told of what action LL is going to take against the offenders. Linden Lab does not release this kind of information to the general public. They have even yanked their page to where you could see what infractions they acted upon.

[Daniel Regenbogen]

Drake, you simply don't get that with generalization you can *never* judge a specific situation.

A kid bound to a stake, another kid with a whip in his hand standing beside him, could mean:

a) a sexual bdsm style situation, which would be against the ToS and if reported will lead to 2 less registered accounts
b) a non-sexual bdsm style situation (maybe compare it with RL bullying), which would not be against the ToS
c) a non-sexual but violant slavery RP situation (for example from a pre-civil-war USA setting), which would not be against the ToS
d) a non-sexual, non-violant "pretend to" game in the style of cowboys and indians, which would not be against the ToS at all.

Especially b and c open the doors to moral judgement, but that has nothing to do with the ToS/CS. If you let *that* rule SL, then bye bye to most parts of the whole grid. Including the lady who finds my profile so interesting (which, btw, abides 100 percent to LL's rule which states that all profiles have to be totally PG).

So, once again: a ToS violation is not related to a stake, cuffs, a gag, a whip, a paddle, a cell or whatever. It solely is related to the actual situation in that these things are used.

[Daniel Regenbogen]

That's easy, it was said that this person owns a well known kids SIM. You will notice LL taking action simply by this avatar and the SIM disappearing. That is what LL does in a proven case of sexual ageplay.

 

And no, I wasn't in the Boy Scouts of America. I'm not even american, and it is kinda funny to me just *how far* the US prudery goes in some cases. A troup leader that can not roughouse with his troup (in a totally innocent way) is simply stupid.

[Leia36]

OK for once I am going to politely exit stage left, I have been here before and don't need it again. Have fun you guys.

[Ceka Cianci]

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Leia36 wrote:

OK for once I am going to politely exit stage left, I have been here before and don't need it again. Have fun you guys.

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agrees ..it's kind of heading to the political side of it all now..

there is a big topic change when it goes from "Are they allowed to do this" to "should they be allowed to do this"

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Daniel Regenbogen wrote:

TristanMercer wrote: I CANNOT name names on this forum of said people involved in this. They were using Devpose BDSM equipment with sex animations in it, even if they were not being used. This clearly goes against the ToS/CS and as such, said avatars were abuse reported.

 

That's good, so you do the name and can update us if that person was disciplined (which in case of sexual ageplay will be the end of that account). If not, then I would say that LL checked closely, and maybe *do* make differences between being close to sexual stuff and actually using it.

 

I hope this is not against any rules, but I will copy&paste a support ticket question and the response from LL (names removed, not my ticket):

 

*.*.*

Details: There is no official policy statement on whether a child av is permitted to participate in the

activity described below.

NONSEXUAL bondage rp using cuffs, collars, cages, cells, leashes, blindfolds and gags to control, isolate, and

restrain the child av. Genital regions are fully covered before, during, after rp. No depiction of, reference to, or

description of sexual penetration, orgasm, sexual arousal, genitalia or fluid exchange before, during, or after rp.

 Hello ***,

As we posted in our blog about Age Play, every report will be handled on a case-by-case basis. However, if there is

nothing sexual at all about the actions being taken, then I do not see any reason that you could not partake in the

actions you mention. I would make sure that if you do choose to partake in this that you are extremely careful and

not venture into the sensual/sexual side of bondage with child avatars.

Regards,

*** Linden*.*.*

In general, this whole situation is borderline, and even if LL decides it is not against the TOS, I would definitely say it is stupid by the mentioned kid avatar to make himself so vulnerable by letting himself be caught. If nothing else, it makes the whole kids community look at least weird again, if not bad. We don't need that. About the ability to cam everywhere: in *that* case, no matter at all what was witnessed by invading the privacy of someone: shame on the invading person!

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Your question did not ask if it was OK for a child avatar to be bound to BDSM furniture that has sex animations.  As stated in the example given in the official policy, child avi's are not supposed be in proximity let alone on a sex bed or other sexualized object period.  It does not qualify it by saying that something sexual  has to be going on.  The age play policy is clear on that as it is used as an example of what a TOS violation would be.  So if the avatar was a child, and they were bound on the the brand of BDSM furniture mentioned it would be a violation.  There is nothing borderline about it in my mind.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

We are not talking about a stake with ropes and a single animation.. The item in question was a fully scripted multi-pose BD/SM item. With sex poses..  Child AVs are not allowed on sexual items.. 99.9999% of all BD/SM items have sex poses in them. But no one here can change your mind.

I wasn't going to go here but, seeing as you are a teen/child av that is partnered I would think you are violating the TOS regularly. Could be wrong, but you seem very for child avs being able to use BD/SM equipment.

Technically speaking, there is no such thing as a non-sexual BD/SM encounter.. If one person is getting off on it.. It's sexual. If i came across two kids on  acting out a scene, i would AR the hell out of them.

Can you name one single BD/Sm sim that allows child avs? I can't. The ones i know of expressly prohibit them from being there.