Building in an Environment

[Pamela Galli]

No you don't get it -- I (and everyone else in my situation) succeeded IN SPITE OF mesh, not because of it. When mesh was announced I could barely make the simplest sculpts. Everything else was prim work. The advantage I had was my reputation and brand. 

And interestingly, my old stuff is marked way down on the marketplace and still sells like hotcakes.

[Chic Aeon]

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entity0x wrote:

I appreciate your skill and hard work that got you there, but that's besides the point. What was 'lost' has actually helped you succeed by widening the gap between builders and those who can mesh.

There is no envy in me. I either have contempt or admiration for someone. Stop playing the victim, I'm not attacking you, but if the shoe fits, wear it.

I have my own abilities as well, and simply stating things as they are, coming from humble prim building origins myself, and fully aware that if I was going to participate fully in building things for SL, I would have to embrace mesh.

Those who didn't or couldn't have moved on. There's no glossing over that REAL and sad fact.

 

Above written to Pamela

 

 

 

The only gap between those than can make mesh and those who do not is EFFORT.  Anyone that wants to can learn to make mesh. It literally took me THREE tries over time -- finally I gave myself a month of 40 plus hour weeks to learn Blender. I can't say I 'knew' it after a month but I did manage to get an item into world with an ambient map on it. I think it was a simple dresser that I later gave away on a hunt.

 

Nowdays there are many more resources for SL mesh makers, my hundred  or so tutorials, tips and tricks are part of that. If I was worried about being a mesh superstar, why on earth would I be explaining ways to do things and sharing knowledge? 

 

Blender is FREE. There is no cost involved except time and dedication. It was NOT fun for the first six month. It got easier after that. Then I decided that I wanted to learn Cycles which is as someone in Opensim put it is like "leveling up" in an adventure game.  Now after a year and a half I feel competent in Cycles. 

 

This was a CHOICE and each creator that is making mesh OR is trying to LEARN mesh is making that choice.  Both Pamela and I made more money in the prim days and for me anyway with much less effort. You are making suppositions that have no evidence behind them.  

 

If you choose not to learn new skills that doesn't make it easier for US, it just makes it "easier" for you. Avoidance is not a skill. Pretending that there can be no improvements, no new methods, no new beauty?  Not in my book. 

 

Get over it! 

 

 

 

[Pamela Galli]

Yes, while mesh has been good for me as an artist, as a business owner it has cost me.  I had to work twice as hard for five years to continue having a full time job in SL.

In that "widening gap between builders and those who can mesh" you and I, and many others, were the builders, not "those who can mesh".  As you say, we became those who can mesh, as a result of our choice to rise to the challenge.  Certainly I never wanted to be a 3-D modeler,  such a thing never entered my mind until Second Life announced that I was going to have to do that. 

 For me, losing my job was not an option -- I had two disabled family members depending on me for support. I still do. Whatever it takes, within my power, I am going to keep my job.

 

 

[ChinRey]

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entity0x wrote:

I appreciate your skill and hard work that got you there, but that's besides the point. What was 'lost' has actually helped you succeed by widening the gap between builders and those who can mesh.

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Yes, mesh did exclude a lot of old builders and if we want to be cynical about it, that in itself was an advantage for those who persisted and were willing and able to adapt. But mesh also gave us this new kind of freebie resellers, people who simply upload and sell whatever meshes they come across on the internet, and all in all I don't think the competition lessened.

Freebie resellers don't spend any time or effort building the items they sell, most of them don't spend any time of effort getting (and learning how to) get decent uploads and some of them can't even be botherd to take their own product pics. That means they can sell very cheap and still make a profit and it's hard to compete against that.

I think the best answer to that is summed up in Chic's title for this thread: "Building in an Environment". All 3D platforms have their own peculiarities, SL perhaps more than any of the others, and meshes built speifically for a platform will usually work much better than ones intended for another one. Unfortunately that also require "Buying in an Environment" to really work. You don't see those differences in a picture on MP or on a vendor, they only show up after rezzing.

[Codex Alpha]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

No you don't get it -- I (and everyone else in my situation) succeeded IN SPITE OF mesh, not because of it. When mesh was announced I could barely make the simplest sculpts. Everything else was prim work. The advantage I had was my reputation and brand. 

And interestingly, my old stuff is marked way down on the marketplace and still sells like hotcakes.

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If I don't understand your perspective, it's because I come from a different context, as I stated. To me I was happily building stuff with prims, but being both discouraged and dismayed at the high land prices for me to build on, as well as the seemingly superior stuff made from mesh. I had no advantage with money. All I had is a desire to learn (and work for it).

Not sure why I triggered a personal defense on  your part, it's not required. Let's return to the point made that although there may be some sense of community lost with not building inworld - there wasn't much of it anyway.. Limited audiences coming to the land, and the high expense of prim use both contributed to mesh's rise, and people leaving because it takes a lot of work to learn mesh. We really are on the same page.

Yet, this DOES in fact widen the gap, and ensures that the top mesh makers will now be fewer, and less people entering the arena creatively or in a business manner. 

Also notice some of the phrases you and others use... it's what doctors might say to warrant the high prices they charge and/OR (please pay attention to the OR) to secure their positions.

The environment itself was bound to fail eventually, as it is predicated on other people making money in order for one to express themselves creatively. SL is expensive to most, or at least the ROI may not be there. THere are now 19 of 21 people I know that do not frequent SL because of this. But who cares, right? We should care because they are OUR AUDIENCE, OUR TRAFFIC, and in many cases OUR CUSTOMERS.

So this is not about your skills or hard work; MANY of us do the same thing. LIke I said, I appreciate your history and hard work, but you are not alone - stating so makes you appear elitist. I'm on my way, and am your junior in this experience, yes... My SL experience has been dealing with elitists and people who hoard their knowledge - so I post with that perspective. I'm anti-elitist and pro-newbie support.

But I cannot stand idly by and watch some people post as they do and not respond with the 'other guy' in mind. Because I AM that 'other guy'. So take my statements with a grain of salt, and that I am (trying to) consider where you are coming from at the same time.

 

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Yes, while mesh has been good for me as an artist, as a business owner it has cost me.  I had to work twice as hard for five years to continue having a full time job in SL.

In that "widening gap between builders and those who can mesh" you and I, and many others, were the builders, not "those who can mesh".  As you say, we

became

those who can mesh, as a result of our choice to rise to the challenge.  Certainly I never wanted to be a 3-D modeler,  such a thing never entered my mind until Second Life announced that I was going to have to do that. 

 For me, losing my job was not an option -- I had two disabled family members depending on me for support. I still do. Whatever it takes, within my power, I am going to keep my job.

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This is precisely why this kind of gap and barrier to entry actually benefits you, whether you want to recognize it or not.

Your hard work, though admired and appreciated (because I know what it takes myself), is beside the point, because many people have to do that, not only you

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ChinRey wrote:

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entity0x wrote:

I appreciate your skill and hard work that got you there, but that's besides the point. What was 'lost' has actually helped you succeed by widening the gap between builders and those who can mesh.

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Yes, mesh did exclude a lot of old builders and if we want to be cynical about it, that in itself was an advantage for those who persisted and were willing and able to adapt.

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There's nothing cynical about it, it's realistic. Just address the real effects, deal with it, and move on.

Glad you can see there is a gap though, and many benefit from it.

[Pamela Galli]

Hopeless.

[Codex Alpha]

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Chic Aeon wrote:

The only gap between those than can make mesh and those who do not is EFFORT.  Anyone that wants to can learn to make mesh. It literally took me THREE tries over time -- finally I gave myself a month of 40 plus hour weeks to learn Blender.

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Good for you. Many others do the same thing. Depending on their budget and career needs and goals, a variety of 3D software is available to them.

It's a no brainer that with today's access to information on the internet, one can learn anything they want, as long as they apply the effort. So what is your point by saying this? For me or the audience?

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Chic Aeon wrote:

Nowdays there are many more resources for SL mesh makers, my hundred  or so tutorials, tips and tricks are part of that. If I was worried about being a mesh superstar, why on earth would I be explaining ways to do things and sharing knowledge?

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Never seen any of your tutorials, where can people find them?

What does the rest have to do with saying there is a wide gap now, and such a gap ensures less competition for those who do make mesh?

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Chic Aeon wrote:

Blender is FREE. There is no cost involved except time and dedication. It was NOT fun for the first six month. It got easier after that. Then I decided that I wanted to learn Cycles which is as someone in Opensim put it is like "leveling up" in an adventure game.  Now after a year and a half I feel competent in Cycles.

This was a CHOICE and each creator that is making mesh OR is trying to LEARN mesh is making that choice.

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Good for you. I admire your initiative and hard work. As I stated before, there are many others doing the same thing, so.... what's your point in stating any of this?

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Chic Aeon wrote:

 Both Pamela and I made more money in the prim days and for me anyway with much less effort.

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I'm sure you did. Members and customers didn't expect the detail and Low LI they expect now

I've seen some products made in those days with hundreds of positive reviews, etc, and by today's standards, they're not very good at all.(or at least need to be updated)

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Chic Aeon wrote:

You are making suppositions that have no evidence behind them.

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That's because it's my opinion, based on my experience and observations in SL thus far. People's experiences can vary in SL, you do understand that right? This is why forums exist, to present different views and takes on things that expose one to other views they can consider

I'm reading, comprehending and respecting other people's views, keep them coming. I'm all for discussion and learning, and I realize I'm not always right. So how about giving other people a bit of leeway too.

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Chic Aeon wrote:

If you choose not to learn new skills that doesn't make it easier for US, it just makes it "easier" for you. Avoidance is not a skill. Pretending that there can be no improvements, no new methods, no new beauty?  Not in my book.

Get over it! 

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Although this is returning to a previous point made, as you are kind of repeating the same sentiment of "There is no gap if you want to learn!", you're still missing the point.

Because there EXISTS that barrier of mesh creation for most newcomers to SL, and also the obsoleting of prim builds in some capacity, with the dwindling numbers of audiences for those builds, the gap widens because most are not up to, nor have the desire to invest time and hours.