MAGE Magazine is a community of artists

[0THELLA]

Incase there is some confusion about the nature of MAGE Magazine, it is not a business. We distribute the magazine for free in the form of a 3D book / slideshow and the artists affiliated with MAGE Magazine are volunteers.

Occasionally we will place an advertisement or accept donations to help cover the cost of producing the magazine. It costs 10 lindens per texture upload and as each page of the magazine is a texture this adds up to between 300 to 500 L per month. It is not a large sum but most of this comes out of pocket as does the cost of furniture and props used to create our sets and the cost of purchasing costumes.

My reason for co founding and promoting MAGE Magazine is to create a community of artists who help each other to learn and inspire each other and help each other find opportunities in the virtual world of Second Life.

I don't understand why anyone would object to this, however if you do have a problem with the content of my posts please let me know.

Thank you

0THELLA - Editor for MAGE Magazine

 

http://0zymandius.wix.com/magemagazine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H31FzyS4eMY&list=PLThpLfGotClK192Tm6hpDC2XXk5_aKgna&index=1

 

[Freya Mokusei]

Got a reasonable idea what this post refers to, so sure, I'll bite. I'll try to be clear.

My reading of your "venture" is that you represent a brand, presumably with some heirarchy and imagined authority at least amongst yourselves. It seems to rely on very weak (I assume because this is often equivilent to 'free') marketing methods, involving self-promotion on this forum and an in-world magazine of questionable value (it sounds like it costs you a lot to produce, and Second Life 'magazines' have never been effectively-implemented or useful formats for a lot of reasons listed in the following spoiler tag).

• They're not text, they're not searchable and can't serve any SEO purposes
• They take a long time to load each page
• They act clumsily as HUD objects which are hard to use, vs. webpages which everyone knows how to navigate.
• And mostly: They cost money per page, in an era where almost no mediums cost money to upload images OR text.

These weak, expensive and untargetted marketing methods don't seem to be serving you well. If you're generating resentment in the areas where you do your marketing (as is my understanding) AND your brand is reliant on people within your industry maintaining respect for your message (which, it sounds like it is), you should probably review your marketing methods. Otherwise, public support will eventually erode and you'll appear to be a nuisence, rather than someone who adds value.

The Second Life forum does allow advertisements, but only within certain forums. The Art, Music and Photography board is - as far as I can tell from the Community Guidelines - not one of these forums. It's therefore largely inappropriate to present and advertise 'brands' here, when instead you could focus on individuals and specific issues that affect singular artists within your brand.

I understand that you're all volunteers, and therefore probably have no formal training in marketing or SEO. This is entirely fine, but it may be even more important to listen to feedback on your chosen methods because of this. Public opinion of your brand should be important to you, as should encouraging organic discussion vs. inorganic marketing 'spiel'. It's organic discussion that creates 'followers' and 'thought-leaders', people who can be present within your community, present strong ideas and help you to grow in ways that don't require 'man-at-desk' hours. If you foster discussion and add value to people outside of your community then you will reach more people, and more people will respect the things you promote.

Your venture probably does have issues within it that merit attention and discussion here, provided it's done respectfully and within the terms of the CG. There probably are ways to do what you're doing in a way that doesn't annoy other users of this forum, or risk getting your posts removed by moderators for looking like self-promotion and spam - which I assume has happened a few times. I don't immediately have solutions to these problems (largely because they're not my problems).

For clarity, I've no issue with community management, fund-raising, awareness or creating collectives within Second Life or Wix, or anywhere else. I don't know you, your brand, or your community. I speak only from my opinion of what I've seen here - on community.secondlife.com - within the last 24 hours.

I hope this helps your understanding of these forums. I promise that I don't mean to sound harsh, only helpful. I only post this feedback here because it sounds like you're asking to receive some. At no point have I seen or encouraged specific attacks on any one person, or any brand - that's not my intention at all. If my input is not useful to you then please let me know in any way at all, and I'll go back to ignoring your content. If you DO have interest in discussing any of the content in my post, please do so here and in public.

Thanks for listening.

[Freya Mokusei]

To add, briefly (now that I've read more of what you're reacting to).

I liked your post here: https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Art-Music-and-Photography/Does-anyone-know-where-I-can-find-out-more-about-Second-Life/m-p/3042438#M8764

That's what I was talking to about organic content. Aside from the minor quibble that you're linking outward rather than keeping discussion on this forum (a medium perfectly designed for discussion!) this is actually pretty good. It helps a user, presents a good point of view.

However your other post, here: https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Art-Music-and-Photography/Be-an-artist-not-a-hater/m-p/3042436#M8763

This is silly, undermines your community's message and just sounds like juvenile name-calling. I don't know how this behaviour serves your brand, other than "not well" - it leaves a bad taste, and sounds like you're more interested in controlling the conversation than encouraging it.

Again, very quick and easy examples of POSITIVE and useful content, and NEGATIVE unhelpful content that doesn't serve this forum or its users.

[0THELLA]

Hi Freya,

Thank you for your response. Let me address your first assumption that I represent a brand. MAGE Magazine is the name of the magazine, just as Freya Mokusei is the name of your avatar. If you use your name in posts are you trying to market yourself?

The reason why I use the name MAGE Magazine in my posts is that so people can look for it in a Second Life search engine

https://my.secondlife.com/groups/d3a0f7bb-8e5f-4775-46f2-584f6295f362

or do a google search

https://plus.google.com/communities/109471378143688110296

or a facebook search

https://www.facebook.com/MAGEMagazine/

or a you tube search

or a search on AviewTV

http://aview.tv/browse-mage_magazine-videos-1-date.html

or SLartist

http://www.slartist.com/browse-mage-magazine-videos-1-date.html

in fact the resopnse to MAGE Magazine has been so positive that people like Christopher Caldwell, LaPiscean, Secret Rage, Christopher Bolivar and Ian Thomson  have been embedding our videos on their websites with no prompting on my part. So I see this as a positive response to a community that promotes the work of the collective over the individual. Which is probably why we might be the target of envy by aspiring artists who have been struggling in Second Life for years while we have gained a great deal of recognition including three Avi choice nominations in our inaugural year.

[Freya Mokusei]

---

0THELLA wrote:

Hi Freya,

Thank you for your resonse. Let me address your first assumption that I represent a brand. MAGE Magazine is the name of the magazine, just as Freya Mokusei is the name of your avatar. If you use your name in posts are you trying to market yourself?

The reason why I use the name MAGE Magazine in my posts is that so people can look for it in a Second Life search engine

 

...

---

That's... a brand.

You might use different terms, but if you're marketing a specific IDENTITY and drawing people to a website that you control, then you are PRODUCING A BRAND. It would be wrong for me to push my BRAND in the LSL Scripting forum, to talk about my work in-world and what I would charge, as well as trolling for jobs and directing people to my products - this would all be ethically wrong, and probably also against the Community Guidelines. So I don't do it.

You're welcome to continue burying your heads in the sand, I just find that an unfortunate route to take for the innocent artists you claim to represent. I've tried to lay out the reasons I feel this is a mistake and will cost you more readers than you'll gain, but it's entirely your decision to make.

Good luck with your venture.

[0THELLA]

ok, so let me addres your second assumption about "some heirarchy and imagined authority at least amongst yourselves."

There is no hierarchy in MAGE Magazine. There are casual contributors, people who contribute one or two images per month. There work is featured in the section of the magazine called "Second Life Perspectives"

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Art-Music-and-Photography/MAGE-Magazine-is-accepting-snapshots-and-images-for-Second-Life/m-p/3038856

Then there are people who work on individual pictorials

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Art-Music-and-Photography/MAGE-Magazine-is-looking-for-artists-who-are-interested-in/td-p/3040537

Then there is the MAGE Magazine creative team who produce ongoing episodes such as The Saga of LADY DOM

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Art-Music-and-Photography/MAGE-Magazine-Tutorial-1/td-p/3021313

My role as editor is to keep things organized, check for typos and remind people of deadlines. I take it upon myself to promote the magazine. So, unlike individuals who are promoting only their work, I am promoting the work of several people.

 

[Freya Mokusei]

---

0THELLA wrote:

My

role as editor

is to

keep things organized

and

remidn people of deadlines

and I take it upon myself to promote the magazine.

---

That's a heirarchy. And authority.

This isn't even an important part of my post. I don't know you or your venture, it doesn't matter to me how you arrange yourselves or how you generate publicity.

I'm just giving feedback on your behaviour in this forum, based on my perspective as a fellow user. Because you appear to be asking for this feedback.

[0THELLA]

Regarding your third assumption about the method by which we distribute the magazine, as I stated, it is a 3D book, not a HUD. 

An excerpt from your spoiler alert ... 

 

• They're not text, they're not searchable and can't serve any SEO purposes
• They take a long time to load each page
• They act clumsily as HUD objects which are hard to use, vs. webpages which everyone knows how to navigate.
• And mostly: They cost money per page, in an era where almost no mediums cost money to upload images OR text.

 

Because we publish copies of MAGE Magazine as a slideshow on you tube, it would make more economical sense to direct our inworld audience to this method of viewing as opposed to actually paying to upload textures to create a book people can rez in Second Life.

However by creating a 3D book we encourage people who own properties to display copies of our Magazine and so far we have had copies of our 3D book on display at the Windlight Art Gallery, the Sisse Singh's Art Gallery, the Horus Art Gallery, the entrance to Builder's Brewery and the Sandbox Shiromani.

here is a video of our 3D book at the Sisse Singh's art gallery and in front of the Horus Art Gallery

 

And here is a link to an article about MAGE Magazine's participation in the Relay For Life Art auction

http://0zymandius.wix.com/magemagazine#!MAGE-Magazine-is-proud-to-be-a-part-of-Second-Lifes-Relay-for-Life/c112t/574025230cf22b22de68b5a5

 

 

[Tamara Artis]

Is this for real? lol

 

So Othella I hope we helped you gain more traffic to at least some of those 13 links you managed to sneak in this thread. Good luck with your adventure, I am sorry you didn't manage to understand the point and the questions here. I will not try to explain anymore. 

 

I am really happy to read that you managed to get, as you said...  "a great deal of recognition including three Avi choice nominations in our inaugural year" and I hope that soon you will evolve and get enough group members and followers to be able to earn some money from this adventure so that you can buy a decent ad and stop spamming this place before everyone leaves it and, of course, pay the artists that work for you. 

Good luck, take care! 

[0THELLA]

I could go on at length regarding the comments made by Freya and Tammy but the truth is they have no intention of being helpfull or constructive so instead I will apologise to anyone who was disturbed by the derailement of this section of the Creation Forum.

I believe that this forum should be a place where people can talk about their work as artists, and using the names of your galleries, magazines and musical or artistic groups should not be prohibited because the moderators choose to misinterpret this as brand marketing.

I did not enjoy engaging with Freya and Tammy but I would have felt like a coward if I allowed myself to be censored by a couple of cyber bullies who think that the amount of time they spent in Second Life gives them the right to impose their uninformed views. I use the word "uninformed" because, by their own admission, they made statements about MAGE Magazine and the content of my posts before taking the time to read them.

[Freya Mokusei]

It's a shame to see you run away from organic discussion, having only addressed the very smallest of criticisms of your brands activities. Most of the disturbance to this forum would have been created by having four threads created on this relatively benign issue, but I appreciate the attempted apology.

As I said in my first post to you, I've nothing against people talking about their work or respectful attribution and even some publicity, as allowed by the Community Guidelines. My feeling was that by abusing the mechanisms of this forum (e.g. by reposting, by tagging Tamara's post 'cyber-bully' and by confusing constructive criticism with censorship) you're not a force for good here, but largely out to promote your brand at the expense of other users. I don't have any authority but I do consider myself an artist and I'm active within the Second Life community - I kind of wish I could leave this thread with another impression, but you've given no opportunity.

These were the first posts of yours that I'd read, and they'll probably be the last. While it's funny to see an off-hand remark about forum policy turn into a game of accruing victim status and cross-thread drama, it's just not for me. I hope the artists behind your brand don't have to suffer under this atmosphere of unquesitoning belief over your current methods of gaining publicity. I know that we - as forum users - won't be suffering, we'll keep pointing out ways to make this forum better serve the residents of Second Life.

I understand that marketing is difficult. I understand that balancing brand promotion and useful content is not something that comes immediately to everyone. I know that starting out a new venture is hard and that the low-hanging branches seem the most natural (and the cheapest). But I think that most endeavours grow better by listening to the ways that they could better serve the communities that they interact with, and by making reasonable accomodations to be respectful to other community members. I have only attempted discussing this with you because I believed it could lead to positive change for everyone, most of your potential reader-base probably wouldn't have spent this time, though they may have come to the same conclusions.

At no point was I advocating censorship, nor was I ever attacking you or anyone else. I wasn't 'imposing' and I wasn't 'demanding', despite your reframing. Your opening post explained how you attempt to do business, and as a point of discussion I was giving my opinion on how you could consider better serving the community here (as a single, non-authoritive participant of the community), as well as those you represent. I don't feel that any of this was out of line, but if you perceived it as an attack then that's an unfortunate misunderstanding. You're right that I've a lot of experience in Second Life and its community - I've organised and operated publicity events for all kinds of companies, academic groups and charities. I've run product demonstrations, advertising campaigns, viral marketing; I've hosted blogs, built and ran marketing systems for in-world clubs, artists, musicians and authors; for family-types, for furries, for Goreans. I've built exhibits, I've presented shows and I've ran as street-team for more groups than I can name. I've worked with single creators and groups with 100+ staff, for places with traffic as low as single-digits, and as high as quintuple. You can choose to say that the contents of my posts were uninformed and unhelpful to you, but I can promise that my near-decade in Second LIfe has given me some relevant experience in discussing this subject - how you perceive this time I've spent trying to give my opinion is your choice.

Have fun.

[0123Andressa]

Thanks for proving my point 0THELLA, you showed a lot of patience with Freya and Tammy as it is obvious they are just trolling. But mission accomplished eh? :smileywink:

By the way there is a really cool story about zombies in this month's issue of MAGE Magazine.

Honestly if anyone manages to read through all of Freya and Tammy's nonesense and gets to this post, don't be discouraged by cyber bullies and judge for yourself the content of MAGE Magazine.

And as far as the integrity of our dear editor 0THELLA, I think it's obvious that she is determined to promote the work of the artists who contribute to MAGE Magazine.

[Freya Mokusei]

---

0123Andressa wrote:

 

our dear editor 0THELLA

---

This is the most I've bitten my tongue in a really, really long time. I taste copper.

---

0123Andressa wrote:

I think it's obvious that she is determined to promote the work of the artists who contribute to MAGE Magazine.

---

I happen to agree that this is obvious, too.

[Sizzelle]

Wow O and Andie make a devastating tag team :smileymad:

The Zombie Dance vignette is a funny story especially with the mood music on the you tube slide show. It's nicely lit too. Did you use a torch to get the orange glow?

I think of all the vignettes we've published the Creation Theory story by Ozymandius would have to be my favorite. Actually I think the whole Anniversary Issue is really well done, especially the Second Life Perspectives retrospect that featured work from all the artists who have contributed to MAGE Magazine over the past year. Sheesh, can you believe a year has gone by already, time goes by quick but it's cool to look back at some of the early issues and see how the quality of our work has improved.

[Pamela Galli]

---

Freya Mokusei wrote:

---

0123Andressa wrote:

 

our dear editor 0THELLA

---

This is the most I've bitten my tongue in a really, really long time. I taste copper.

---

0123Andressa wrote:

I think it's obvious that she is determined to promote the work of the artists who contribute to MAGE Magazine.

---

I happen to agree that this is obvious, too.

---

Beat me to it! :smileyvery-happy:

Pretty clear what the goal is, from what they have done today, filling the forum with a flood of self promoting threads and name calling. 

 

[Sizzelle]

As an advisor don't you have anything better to do than troll on this thread, we're discussing art, whose name calling?

[Freya Mokusei]

---

Sizzelle wrote:

whose name calling?

---

Your folks. I checked. They keep using words like 'cyber bully' and 'troll'. I don't think they're especially useful terms in the conversation, given that this was just a discussion about self-promotion, in a discussion forum. Out-posting links to art does not make this a discussion about art.

The OP queried why someone would object to their business practice, after explaining their rationale. I answered the question, given that it was clearly posted-out from another, more relevant thread.

---

Sizzelle wrote:

As an advisor

---

Lithium ranks are dispensed automatically. It's not a position we necessarily ascribe to ourselves. They don't count for much.

[Sizzelle]

If you don't like this conversation maybe you should go five threads down to the hate fest tamara started. This thread is for creative people who wish to discuss art, music and photography. Do you have anything to say on one of these three subjects?

If not then why do you keep posting in this thread?

[Freya Mokusei]

I don't remember that conversation happening. Did two people converse about a subject, other than to Internet-high-five?

You're welcome to see what we were discussing, it's on Page 1 and it's actually about the lack of genuine discussions on this board. People seem to keep posting outbound links rather than having substantive conversations.

ETA: That wasn't so hard, was it?

[0123Andressa]

Hey Siz,

Hi five!

Ya we used a horn torch for the orange glow, it was Oz who shot the scene we found a really cool place near the LEA welcome area.

[Sizzelle]

Hi Five Andie :matte-motes-nerdy:

Thanks for answering my question. I was also wondering where you shot the backgrounds for the Aldo the Alien story from Issue 11.

 

[0123Andressa]

Hi Five Siz :heart::heart::heart:

It was at a sim called Roots by Cica Ghost, I love his stuff ( or her stuff )

[Sizzelle]

Was Cica Ghost the artist who created that sim where we shot the LADY DOM scenes from Issue 3?

oops, had to edit my thread because I forgot to high five! :matte-motes-inlove:

[0123Andressa]

High five LOL

Um I don't think so, I think that place was called Ocho Tango. I tried going back but it's gone. That was such a cool place.

[Sizzelle]

Hi Five:matte-motes-tongue:

Yeah that was a cool place.Well I gots to skeedaddle. Send me a text when you plan to be online tomorow.

Adios hermanita!