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Kwakkelde Kwak

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Everything posted by Kwakkelde Kwak

  1. I never had any issues with the (vertex) weights themselves, the avatar moves as it should when you rotate mBones or scale cBones. It's the bones that are messed up in the dae and fbx file. Envelopes were probably never used to rig the SL avatar. That doesn't mean you can't use them, but you'll never get the exact same results as in the dae files. Not that this matters, since the SL avatar itself isn't rigged this way, it uses only the mBones. The rest of the deformations are done by morphs. So your "fitted" creations will not perfectly deform with the avatar anyway. The easiest way I think is to simply rebuild the skeleton from scratch (or use the mBones model from SLAV as a base) and rig your avatar and creations to that. It's just a handful of objects anyway. That's what I did anyway. Or don't use the envelopes at all, but use the painting tools.
  2. I think the possible origin of the name Ruth you posted is no more likely than any of the other ones Alec or I posted, that was my whole point. They are all pretty far fetched (although ours were intended to). I remember the reel to reel tapes...I played some last week.
  3. irihapeti wrote: the point is who named her and what was the motivation for the name. like why that name?? and not another which you conflating with the fact that she does have a name that you keep arguing about it dont add anything. I think you arguing with yourself really Funny, the best description of intelligence I have ever been given is "the ability to argue with yourself". am not sure why you arguing about the timeline either. Robin Linden said what i said it was Linden World as a proof of concept. Then they got the money. Then they redesigned for a avatar in the alpha which they made after they got the loot. avatars which LW as a concept never had. Then they renamed it, the alpha, to SL and then went to beta In that case I will explain. But first of all, I didn't post the Robin Linden part for timeline sake, I quoted him because he calls LindenWorld the alpha stage, so the last thing he does is saying the same as you. Ever wondered why alpha is called alpha? Maybe you confuse "proof of concept" (whatever that is) with alpha, alpha with closed beta and beta with open beta. Alpha is by definition the first stage in software development. I also quoted him for the Sansara part, which has got nothing to do with Ruth, but caught my eye considering the thread title. Same for the second quote, which is about the avatar and how it is handled by SL. (not explained very well, but she got the idea). Anyway, the timeline always matters if you want to uncover something, ask any detective. By narrowing the birth date of Ruth (both model and name) to "around 2002", before open beta, we can dismiss the myth that "a lot of residents" thought Ruth looked like some MTV actress and therefor gave her that name. It is more likely that a Linden Lab employee came up with the name. Lindens in the alpha/beta stage were not from the 80's/90's. I'm not sure about their average age at that time, but most Lindens being born in the 70's or even 60's seems likely. Not you typical MTV The Real World audience I'd say. The only thing I can make of that myth is that maybe some residents heard the name Ruth, then made the connection with MTV. Obviously they didn't consider, just like you and Medhue, what I wrote above. @Rufferta, you should be able to load Ruth from the library in your inventory. The folder is called Ruth. You might have to enable the library first. Hopefully she's in better shape than your version! She might be a bit dusty...
  4. AlecDeBoeuil wrote: Alec - to be helpful, but rarely succeed Well you did today. Wire modeler Ruth in SanFran tops my list now at 2% plausible.
  5. I'll take it over MTV. Believe it or not that name and the school crossed my screen earlier today. I must be bored today.... ...and slow, not picking up on the wire model earlier. ...or lazy, for not looking at the wiki.
  6. You know I stopped responding to you since it has always been pointless. Right now you're the only one that seems to make any sense though. I think Ruth is named after the biblical Ruth. According to one of the new testament books she's a forefather of jesus. Jesus is not exactly god, although the roman cathoholics catholics might disagree. Wouldn't that be the most plausible explanation to anyone with a god complex? Or is Ruth named after the steak house close to Linden Lab? Or is Ruth called after Ruth Street? Didn't someone in the waaaay old forums say he thought that maybe someone once said that Ruth Rosedale made a mean apple pie? Kwak - oh hell what do I write here? Kwak - making myths Kwak - talking nonsense Kwak - making too many edits Kwak - giving plausible explanations
  7. If settling for a rumour is good enough for you.... sure. If you want to know, ask LL or Steller. Everywhere on the forums, wiki etc, Linden World is called alpha. When it turned beta it was renamed SL, possibly slightly earlier. ____ "Originally, during the Alpha period, the grid was known as Lindenworld. As we were getting ready to launch the Beta, we decided we needed a name that would convey the expansiveness, involvement and complexity we hoped would characterize this world as it grew. We started by debating the merits of a 'place' name versus a 'descriptive' name. We believed a place name would give people a sense of destination, and possibly some added layer of meaning. And we thought a descriptive name would help people understand this new concept of a shared, 3D collaborative space. "We had a lot of ideas for place names --- one of my favorites was Sansara, which was not only euphonic, but had an interesting meaning in the original Sanskrit, meaning roughly 'ever changing world'. Ultimately, though, we chose to go with a descriptive name, and looked at many derivatives of Terra, Viva, and life. We kept coming back to Life2, and then landed on Second Life as more interesting, more evocative and more what we hoped the world could become as it evolved and grew to be as big as life. "And that's how it came about!" – Robin Linden, former VP of Marketing and Community Development ____ More myths (which suggest that Ruth was a primatar...) from a 2004 article. And don’t forget that your avatar “comes with you”, too. It’s just a 10.000-polygon object (or thereabouts… just to have an idea, a prim cube has 6 faces, so 6 polygons if SL uses squares, or 12 polygons if it uses triangles. Older graphical engines only used triangles), highly difficult to draw correctly, and as you know, SL deals much better with avatars than with high-prim objects! The trick, according to Eggy Lippmann, is that we actually are all “Children of Ruth”. What does this mean? Well, according to SL Myth and Legend, Ruth supposedly “really existed” and was one of the first alpha testers. At that time, avatars were built with prims, as everything else, and later avatars were converted to meshes (which we use nowadays). How exactly the “Ruth” avatar became the “first” avatar, is not clear to our myth recorders **Only uploaded images may be used in postings**s://gwynethllewelyn.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/simple-smile.png" border="0" alt=":-)" /> But in a sense she’s our “mother” – that is, ALL avatars start being Ruth, and then settings are applied on top of Ruth’s AV, so that they look like us! Weird idea, huh? Actually, this is what makes SL render avatars superquickly – the application client is something like a “superfast Ruth renderer”. It just gets a small string of settings (200 settings which you set using the Appearance interface – just a few bytes!) from the asset server, and – ta-da! Instant avatars! You just need a few textures for the clothes and skins, they are “baked” (i.e. all clothes layers and the skin are sort of “fused together” in a single texture, and sent to you), and the avatar is done (thanks for Eggy for that piece of info, I really hadn’t figured that out for myself, and I didn’t understand how SL could render so many prims so fast – after all, one sim can only hold 15.000 prims or so, and we know how long it takes to render all of those…)! _____ So here's the post you are talking about: 12-18-2003 06:39 I lost my body shape I logged on, one day, and was looking like the default noob shape, aka "ruth" whoever she is I think Steller told me Ruth was the God Mother who looked down into the alpha world, ever vigilant, loving and protective. No, really. They had this projector over at LL and watched the alpha peeps all day long or something. I also lost parts of other costumes. Now whenever I try to wear the "slayer droid" I get lots of "Clothing / Body part missing from database" No idea how this is helpful.... ____ As for "I have nothing", the same is the case for everyone around here, it seems that I don't mind though and you have the need to fill the void with nonsense.
  8. Eliminating certain possibilities is a way to find the answer, or at least a way to get rid of rumours and myths...Giving random answers is not the same as providing a solution. Your suggestion can't be right either since there has never been a second life alpha. There was Linden World, which had the primatar, I'm not sure if Ruth was introduced before the world left alpha stage. There was of course a beta To my best knowledge, Steller is still working at the lab, so why not contact them if you're dying to know if she was called Ruth, and if so, why. Alternatively, ask her directly.
  9. If it was the code name, it certainly wasn't invented by any resident, let alone numerous residents who all thought the same. And that's the truth..Ruth. or the entire thing:)
  10. Drake1 Nightfire wrote: On that note all rezzables, like buildings, cars, boats and the like, should be forced to list Land Impact or they can't be listed. Information is always useful, but what exactly needs to be listed? It would be quite a list to get experienced users some useful data, so big it would be useless to most people. Not only LI, but also the size, not only the draw server, download or physics weight, but also the amount of vertices, triangles, UV vertices/islands, texture amount/size, script count/memory etc. If you make only LI or only draw weight mandatory.... well, we all know SL creators are masters at abusing/cheating the system. I think the restrictions need to be imposed on a higher level, when models are uploaded or assembled. If you can't rezz a 900ktris motorcycle (which I just saw), there's no need to list everything about it on the marketplace. Not that I always do it, but if you want to know what you're about to buy, either go see it inworld or buy a demo.
  11. Medhue Simoni wrote: See, most people interested in virtual worlds were a product of the 80's and early 90's, Where did you get that information? It's just a small survey, but it shows something completely different. So does this this data released by LL in 2008, which shows most residents were from the 70's and 80's. This one shows the 80's. I don't know how the numbers are collected or processed, but I suspect the age ranges 18-24 (especially) and 25-34 include a lot of younger people. Anyway, according to the wiki, Ruth was the code name for the default avatar, so it wasn't the residents who gave her the name.
  12. Medhue Simoni wrote: No, that was not my logic at all. 1 of those is just a set of random letters, and the other is an actual name. As I don't know the first 1, how would I know if TMP is an actual name, or just an abreviation? As Perrie, LL is generally pretty strict about calling out products or companies. Random letters? It's an abbreviation alright, but one that is more widely used than the actual name. How are you supposed to know who they are? Google "TMP second life" maybe? (Which gives me 3 times more hits than "slink second life" btw.)
  13. I don't see how that applies to what is going on in the current discussion, at all. If my comments were meant to be personal and negative, they would be directed towards LL anyway for allowing those creations, not towards the creators. As I said, the "lag-fest" items are wide spread.
  14. Of course they have a female and a male body, and they might have updated their models between the time you and I acquired them. Also, there seem to be different versions, from base to deluxe (which has more texture options, so more copies). Mine is called BETA, no idea if it ever came out of that stage. The hands are hard to get a hold of in the edit menu, but I managed: They are 1436k tris (this includes several copies for texturing and for handposes). The body was not as bad as I thought, although it's still the lag-part of the set with 330k tris (copies for texturing). The feet are 214k tris (again copies for both texturing and handposes). So it's close to 2 million trianges, opposed to the 8796 for the system avatar including eyes, hair and eyelashes. (or 5342 for the headless body)
  15. The viewer closest to the official one, but supporting RLV, is possibly the one by the RLV inventor. You can find it here.
  16. Medhue Simoni wrote: Now, TMP, I have no idea who they are, but S_____ is a name everyone knows. So you should probably adjust the name. What kind of warped logic is that? Because you don't know a certain product, nobody does? Because you know a product everybody does? Because some product is better known than another we can't discuss it but we can discuss the other? Not that everybody in SL looks at these forums (to say the least), but anyone who does, has a right to know how bad certain products are in general, or how bad they can be. Most people are oblivious to the fact they bought their own lag. I know people who prefer TMP over Slink, for whatever reason. I have seen clothing pieces that aren't any better, with meshes so dense they look solid from only a couple of meters away. Plenty of the creators of these products are well respected by the community. Plenty of these products get great reviews on the marketplace. I can't find anything in the guidelines about not being able to talk about specific products. You aren't allowed to promote yourself though. So if I was selling mesh avatars (which I am not and have no desire to) and I would show their best features, then compare them to similar products and point out their weaknesses, it would be another story. I am always very careful when it comes to showing off my own work, I think I have shown some twice over the years, once to ask a question, once to clearify something.
  17. Qie Niangao wrote: Obviously we're not supposed to talk about individual products in the forums like this, but I suspect our moderators have had some of the same miserable experiences everybody else has had with TMP. I have voiced my opinion about this avatar many times on these formums, never by name though, but since we're at it.... I wonder how bad the others are. Slink has 157k triangles for the entire headless avatar. Not nearly as bad, but not exactly the benchmark for low poly modeling.
  18. Medhue Simoni wrote: Why doesn't someone say something to them? What makes you think I haven't?
  19. The download component takes the LoD models into account. I'm pretty sure they are set to the bare minimum for at least the lowest two LoDs, so the download weight doesn't represent the highest LoD in any way. Especially for avatars and avatar attachments this highest weight is very important, since people tend to flock together, showing their highest detail to the rest of the group. In the develop menu you can open the "show info -> show render info" console which will tell you exactly how many triangles and verts objects on your screen have (by selecting them). I don't know all the numbers by heart, but the hands alone are 1.4 million triangles. The rest is not as bad but nothing short of terrible either. The most laggy part of the body is the main body, with around 700k tris if I'm not mistaken. This could be caused by the fact that there are far more different weights in that part, although I'm not sure about it. I am sure about the fact that wearing that body halves my framerate. EDIT Oh I didn't read you weren't able to use the console at this moment..anyway, those are the numbers...
  20. TMP bodies not adding much geometry to the scene? I wonder what kind of scene you are talking about if a handful of million triangles doesn't add much geometry. One of those bodies would be responsible for half the geometry on my screen... and that's on ultra settings. On low settings it would be far more than half.
  21. ChinRey wrote: As for why Windows 10 is free, I suspect the reason is simply MS figures they'll save a lot of money by getting as many users as possible over to the same OS version rather than having to support a myriad of old versions for ages to come. That... And the fact that MS disabled all privacy settings by default. Many people won't change those settings so MS can gather anything they want, then use that information pretty much any way they like. Let's call it "the Google way".
  22. Medhue Simoni wrote: I didn't mean that someone would morphs a human into a dragon. I meant that people are going to make dragon avatars, and other avatars, and those are all unique meshes, no different than what I proposed. And we have mesh clothing, mesh hats, mesh whatever. They are the exception though and usually not as polygon heavy as an avatar. While completely different avatars would likely be more polygon heavy than small attachments, they would still be an exception. Not in any way the same as a unique avatar for everyone. Even with the current mesh avatars it's not that big an issue (apart from the horrible way they are set up for texturing and the sometimes stupid amount of complexity), since there are only so many around. Load one onto your computer and you have them all. This doesn't impact network load. A bigger concern I have is graphical load. LL will have to come up with a good base avatar so it won't be tempting to create alternative humanoids. Also, they need a good system that guarantees having plenty of creative tools, while putting a cap on things like total amount of wearable polygons, pixels, scripts etc.
  23. Medhue Simoni wrote: What I'm suggesting is no different than everyone wearing a unique mesh. So, I don't see the problem with that. Yeah, it's not the ideal thing for a game, but it's going to happen like this anyways in a virtual world like we are talking about. If you don't think this is good, then you should also be against making dragon avatars for this world, or a bear, or a centaur. At least with this technique, most avatar meshes would have the same topology, and UV mapping. I think I clearly explained what the downsides of unique meshes are. If you want a new world that will be plagued from the start by lag like SL is, unique avatars for everyone fit right in. Since LL is hinting at millions of potential users, I don't see that as very sensible, lag is one of the biggest complaints by new users as far as I can tell. I think LL is moving towards far more control over their platform, including performance, why else would they ban 3rd party viewers, which often pulled the wagon, both in positive and negative ways? I'm sure they learned from SL, so a lot of mistakes or flaws will be handled. I'm not against alternative avatars, I simply see and voiced some potential problems with everyone having their own unique mesh. I have no idea how Sansar or however it will be called will work, so some concerns might be unjustified, and probably more I can't even think of (yet). Morphing a humanoid into a dragon for example isn't exactly easy either, if possible at all. Imagine all the extra verts you'd need for long horns, spikes or whiskers, which wouldn't be used by 99.99% of the avatars. You'd still need attachments.
  24. Medhue Simoni wrote: Just a thought, but what if, the morphs were stored locally within each person's viewer. So, a person sees a morph that they like, and they buy it from the marketplace. It gets stored locally, so that when you go to edit your avatar, all your morphs are there. You adjust your avatar, and when you are done, you BAKE it. The baking process would essentially create a brand new mesh, that get's traded amongst the veiwers. I personally would really like it if we could have 2 baked meshes, so that people could actually morph into things, like a werewolf. The problem with that, as I said earlier, is that a "baked" avatar is unique. So instead of the very small amount of data with the morph tags, you'd have to send a complete avatar to the server and the server would have to send it to all viewers. This would be the case for all avatars that aren't exactly the same. If you want to see how big the difference approximately is, create a DAE file for all of the LoDs of the default avatar, including eyes etc. Then compare its size to a text file that has a number for all avatar sliders. Apart from compression and other "tricks" that might be possible, that's what you're dealing with. Medhue Simoni wrote: Yeah, but if you just hired someone, then you just get whatever you get, with some adjustments. With a contest, you get a range of options to choose from. I would not have some secret LL group pick the winner, but let the SL community pick the winner. Creators like you and I could also critique the meshes, for good topology and all that, which would have some influence on everyone else, when picking their winners. Letting the SL community pick the winner sounds like the worst idea ever. Only LL knows what the consequences are for their platform. I'm pretty sure I'd pick a totally different avatar than the majority of the population. I'm convinced the avatar with the most polygons and the best scalable "front and back" would win. Of course LL could set some rules/limits, that would help. I'd rather see a brainstorm session for the community where they can voice their preferences, then have a (hired) professional take over, hand in hand with the LL techs.
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