Kwakkelde Kwak
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Posts posted by Kwakkelde Kwak
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This is what I thought yes. I was aware of the trademark thing and I'd never use someones logo or name. The second question was really part of the first one, but if you can't copyright a shape of a car (or furniture, or fashiondesigns..yes I watched the presentation..) it doesn't matter to begin with.
I'm still not 100% convinced, since artwork for example can be copyrighted and some items are so exclusive they might be considered art by a court of law. I'm convinced enough to put my models up for sale though, without brand names, logo's or references to either of those.
As for the gamedesigners paying...you're probably right, but they ofcourse DO need permission from the original owners. Still it would be nice if someone who has tried to get permission for a game or other 3d work, could post here with first hand information.
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I have a question about this too, maybe there are some game disigners or something with the answer. As far as I know gamedesigners who make racing games try and use actual cars and carbrands, as long as they don't have to pay too much. If they DO need to pay too much, they seem to build the car anyway, but stick another name on it. I was wondering if this is allowed... and if it's not, where is the line? Is a different steering wheel enough to make it no longer a copy? different wheels?
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It's been a while, several years ago actually, but I am 100% sure I got my payment verification with PayPal, not a PayPal Debit card (or credit card, what is it?). I bought lindens for a single dollar. You might want to grab hold of a Linden through the support channels, they helped me quite well.
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I forgot to mention the rotation in my original model was 90 degrees around x indeed. It's also how the viewer uploads the model, the uploaded mesh rezzes with this rotation aswell. At least I can upload this one correctly now, as you have seen on the test grid, but I'm sure people will run into this again, although probably not many and not often.
The older viewers had no problems with the LOD, they in fact still show the model correctly.
Anyway, half the mystery is solved, but the columns which are behaving similairly, do not have this rotation, I checked and double checked that. So there has to be more to this... The columns have a lathe or revolve or how is it called in other programs modifier for the biggest piece, I don't think I flipped any normals or anything though.
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hmmm, is this really ment for me Drongle? I don't have any issues with prim weight as far as I can remember.... And I certainly don't remember any cylindrical pillars in any build...
About the matrix...uggh, that's YEARS ago since I last saw one... But if you say the matrix shows a mirror action I believe you. I looked at the model however and there is no mirror there, only a rotation. Also looked at my columns that suffer from the LOD change since V3.1.0 and they don't even have a rotation. I'll try to replicate the bug with another object when I can find some time.
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You can forget about the torus:) linked 16 of those at .5x.5x.5 to a 0.7 PE mesh and the object was ...drumroll... 1067 PE. This was without hollow or anything twisty (not that twisting should make a diff I think)
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So... that is switching two axes and leaving one untouched..That's mirroring:) It's very possible I did that somewhere in the object. But then there's still the issue with my columns... and I sure didn't mirror anything in those. I'll have a look tomorrow at both and post it here when my brain works again...
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Hehe, it's more than I would use if I would ever make rigged clothes.....
Ok, tried something and yes, you can wear objects over 255 prim equivalents, I forgot this was based on the link limit of normal prims..duh... So eerm, yes if people want to push it, they can go insane with meshes....
We don't have 30 attachment points anylonger, I think I got 80 things on before the wear option was greyed out. (max is 8 per single point, but there seems to be another limit)
Linkset is ofcourse still 255 max
Maximum vertice count is 65,536, if that's a closed cylinder that's 131,070 faces
A custom avatar could be 65,536 verts aswell, so another 131,070 faces
So in theory one avatar could be 80 x 255 x 131,070 + 131,070 faces = 2,673,959,070 faces
I'm not 100% sure about the number of attachment points...
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Thanks for clearing that up Coby, I don't think that will be a problem for a big group of people then. No more excuses:) everybody needs to go mesh.
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Phoenix WILL have a mesh based version, you can read about it on their website. Last time I checked they will release a mesh enabled one and a non-mesh one for some reason. Also on the forum here I read it's a matter of weeks before they are done with it (They make it using the code from Henri Beauchamps who makes the mesh Coolviewer.
btw, you only need the full Firestorm or V3 if you want to upload mesh, you don't need it to see them.
Sorry for the lack of links...
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I haven't tried all different prims and their mods like hollow yet, but if you link simple boxes to a mesh you will get very nice results....the boxes will count as approximately half a prim. (or exactly, I dunno)
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<library_visual_scenes>
<visual_scene id="RootNode" name="RootNode">
<node id="LOD01_BLUEPRINT" name="LOD01_BLUEPRINT">
<matrix sid="matrix">1.000000 0.000000 0.000000 78.667358 0.000000 -0.000000 -1.000000 0.000000 0.000000 1.000000 -0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 1.000000</matrix><visual_scene id="RootNode" name="RootNode">
<node id="LOD01_BLUEPRINT" name="LOD01_BLUEPRINT">
<matrix sid="matrix">1.000000 0.000000 0.000000 78.667358 0.000000 1.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 1.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 1.000000</matrix>The file is really too long since I don't know what I'm looking for, but all I can find for differences is the above. (I'm not sure which is which)
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Oh this is an old entry, but there is a way no doubt, and it's pretty simple. There are several ways, you can let a script sense what face is touched, then set the prim to phantom for a short period, or you can use two prims and make one sensitive to collision or touch, let it send a message to both prims and make them phantom for a short period. This should be a couple of lines of scripting. A more sophisticated way is a sensor in one direction which scans half a sphere, this is a bit more complicated but pretty straight forward aswell and if you want to operate the door by touch it is the way to do it.
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It's not the pivot position, but its orientation. I used my 3d programs for complete scenes and static renders until I started with SL, or SL building for that matter. So I haven't really taught myself to be careful with the pivots orientation.
The weird thing is the rotated object looks fine in the upload window, it even rezzes LOOKING rotated correctly. Now the weirdweirdweirdness is the fact the object is actually rezzed rotated along on axis (90 degrees). When I reset the pivot to a world orientation before exporting, I get the truss that has no issues. I'll have to see if maybe the pivot is mirrored aswell, we both discovered mirrored objects can behave strangely, although that was a volume or size issue, not rotation.
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Thanks for taking a look Drongle, both objects are identical, in normals, polycount or wireframe. Only the pivot (or for SL rotation) is different. Both items have UV maps (3 of them), although not optimized in any way (just the result of automapping while constructing), but they are there.
I can drop them onto a Linden...let me rephrase..I will drop them on a Linden. -
Chosen Few wrote:6000 tris is less than the poly count of three sculpties. Most sculpty clothing consists of a hell of a lot more parts than just three. Even if we double the number to 12,000, that's still just six sculpties, and an awful lot of everyday avatar attachments are made from way more than that. While I'm not sure we can call the lesser of two evils a win, it's certainly not a loss.
Can't point this out often enough, although the lower LODs can ofcourse be heavier in polycount than the sculpts. I didn't try it yet, but if 255 prims (or prim equivalent) is the limit for wearable meshes, I am without a doubt some builders won't use it as the limit, but as a goal, just to make it better looking (for people with a 16000 x 9000 screen resolution or something??)
Again, SL's best feature is also its worst, anyone can build or script...(but they really can't...)
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Still I never changed any normals between the two...and as you have seen for yourself all normals look fine inworld... (some faces are missing, but as I told you it's a very crude model, they aren't there to begin with) Also the prim weight for the two is identical... Again, I'm glad I got a model that works again...but I really can't stand it this doesn't make any sense:)
I might have to put this one in the book of Linden Lab Mysteries....
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For anyone who is curious and might be able to let their light shine over this... Aditi grid, Mesh Sandbox 3, dead center....
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"Finalize Render complexity algorithm on the viewer"
(From Release notes Viewer 3.1.0)
I might have to add the object rezzes at default with a 90 degree rotation on the x axis, also in the upload window it shows as it should, as if the rotation was correct. (I used two fresh uploads today, on 3.2.0)
I really don't know what's going on and it puzzles me....
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Thanks for looking into this, although I suspect You're more curious than helpful hehe...
Very strange you can't replicate it, I could send you the models if you want to have a look, either inworld or the DAEs. It's especially strange since the same thing happened with columns, meaning it isn't just this particular object.
Here are the numbers on my three items:
truss 0.600 x 24.000 x 4.109: LOD high to med at 24 m, LOD med to high at 25 m
truss 0.600 x 4.109 x 24.000: LOD high to med at 117 m, LOD med to high at 157 m
truck 3.317 x 4.632 x 10.247: LOD high to med at 46 m, LOD med to high at 61 m
Object detail maxed out, RenderVolume at 2.00,
Second Life 3.2.0 (243986) Oct 27 2011 14:02:26 (Second Life Beta Viewer)
And:truss 0.600 x 24.000 x 4.109: LOD high to med at 90 m, LOD med to high at 144m
truss 0.600 x 4.109 x 24.000: LOD high to med at 90 m, LOD med to high at 144 m
truck 3.317 x 4.632 x 10.247: LOD high to med at 53 m, LOD med to high at 68 m
Object detail maxed out, RenderVolume at 2.00,
Second Life 2.8.4 (0) Aug 6 2011 09:54:37 (RestrainedLove viewer v2.07.03.02 (2.8.0.20010))
(These last are the same results I got with V3.0.0)
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LindaB Helendale wrote:The download cost / streaming cost component of PE/LI (Lindens are not good in choosing terms they use
) is based on the area of a circle with radius equal to half the bounding box diagonal.
This doesn't at all explain why the truss which is narrow yet long, pops to LOD medium at a much shorter distance than the truck which is wide and short.
EDIT ... I uploaded the truss again with the correct rotation (and the old one again to make sure it wasn't a bugged model I used), it now works. With the y axis now being very long and the z not.. it could be very possible the uploader counts x and y far heavier than z for LOD. The strange thing is however the landimpact is still the same, so this isn't related to LOD in a very direct way. Strange..strange, I'm happy it works now though, I wasn't going to make 22 prim equivalent trusses...
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No the RenderVolume is at 2.000 in all cases, I always check before I start building. Object detail always slided to the far right.
It is one object no doubt.
The Lindens did change the algorithm, it was mentioned in the release notes of V3.1.0 and a Linden also said they changed it in august, so he thought it was very possible that those changes were first included in the V3.1.0. As I said earlier, LOD med wouldn't pop until 100 meters or so, now 27. Both are rediculous if you ask me.
EDIT ... I uploaded the truss again with the correct rotation (and the old one again to make sure it wasn't a bugged model I used), it now works. With the y axis now being very long and the z not.. it could be very possible the uploader counts x and y far heavier than z for LOD. Turns out the volume I suspected isn't causing it anyway... I think I will be rotating my columns onto their sides from now on hehe.
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As for the computer hardware needed to view mesh... there are plenty of viewers that can handle mesh, ranging from V1 to V3. I have a computer which isn't off the shelf..and it cost more than $800 to build... so I guess I have no right talking about hardware then...oh wait my computer is four years old! An equivalent can easily be bought second hand for $200. Very reachable for the majority I think. (No I can't view shadows or occlusion, too bad).
Mehs being hard on your system rendering wise? That's just nonsense. The duality of SL shows itself here: What I love most about SL is also what I cant stand about SL... Anyone can build, anyone. This is what makes SL stand out from the rest, by a mile. It however also means people will dump their laginfested items onto the grid, being caused by scripts or visual overkill in the form of textures or models which are too big. Do meshes make this problem worse? I don't think so, people dump 100 prim sculpted hair onto the rest, now let's count.... (my simple calculation again:) )
100 x 32 x 32 x 2 = 204 800 faces at LOD high
100 x 16 x 16 x 2 = 51 200 faces at medium
100 x 8 x 8 x 2 = 12 800 faces at low
100 x 4 x 4 x 2 = 3200 faces at lowest
I haven't tried to upload such nonsene as an equivalent mesh yet, but I am pretty sure the uploader won't accept this. If anything mesh is the best answer to sculpt infested builds.
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Thanks for that Drongle, but I am pretty sure in that case the wiki page is not how it works since the algorithm change....
I don't understand btw how changing the orientation makes a difference if the viewer measures from the center to a corner, all corners are equally far away from it.(I get it now:))The object I am having the biggest issues with is a truss 24 meters long, 4 meters high and .5 meters thick. LOD high breaks at 27 or so meters. In versions before 3.1 that was more like 100 meters (which is also not quite right in my opinion), other objects behave pretty much the same as they did before the change, some even slightly better. The car I am working on hasn't got as big a radius as the truss (not even close), still LOD high pops to medium much much later (further).
Edit - I messed up the orientation of the truss btw, 24 meters is the z axis..I'll look at it when i can, maybe that has got something to do with it, although it wouldn't surprise me they now use the actual volume of the bounding box, or at least take it into the equasion. The truss is 24 x 4 x .5 = 48 cubic m, the car is something like 10 x 6 x 3 = 180 cubic m (it's a truck...)
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What is mesh best for??
in Mesh
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CRAP! Once again I have my brain up my rear end.... trying and trying to keep my mesh car under 32 for physical purposes.....Well Thanks for posting this, I'll still aim at 32... but it's good to know you can go over that....
And my answer to the original question on this thread: everything..yes everything. In some cases using prims or sculpts instead of meshes will result in lower prim values, but always at a tremedous rendering cost. And as is shown above, when you set your models up the right way there really is no alternative to mesh concerning detail. That 4WD could be 32 prims and still look far better than any sculpted one, especially at lower LODs. This is my own experience aswell.