[A Confederacy of Dunces?]

This has got nothing to do with convincing oneself. This is how one truly feels.

People can't be held responsible for something they didn't know was wrong, as long as they couldn't know it was wrong.

For the victims that doesn't make a difference, but as you said so yourself, it's about the ideology, not the "amount" of suffering.

[A Confederacy of Dunces?]

They felt that way, because from the moment they were born, they saw blacks as slaves, not whites or reds. So they certainly did see it as a part of their culture/society/heritage. Since the southern life was so dependant on the (black) slavery, it was percieved as a vital part, a cornerstone of their society.

I have a feeling your "based" and my "based" aren't the same. Maybe "originated" is the better word for what I'm trying to explain. What I am saying is that the black slavery didn't start because the whites saw them as inferior. White and red slaves were harder to keep and not as readily available at a certain point.

A crucial factor here is malaria, killing a lot of caucasians and indians, but not Africans.

[A Confederacy of Dunces?]

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Dresden wrote:

Oh, I get it... it isn't as bad to enslave, torture and kill people to make a buck, as it is to do it just because you just feel like it... right?

...Dres

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No you do not get it at all.

I am fairly convinced slavers felt they weren't doing anything wrong. It was all in the open. Nothing to be embarrased about.

Why do you think the death camps were all hidden from the get go and in the end for the better part destroyed? The nazis knew very well what they were doing was wrong in the mind of any sane person. Why do you think Aktion T4 was terminated the second it came into the public eye?

[A Confederacy of Dunces?]

No need for caps, I hear you loud and clear.

The southern states were (and are) infected with racist ideas, formed over a long period of time.

One could argue they didn't know any better. If one is raised with black slaves, who are only allowed to and therefor only able to do simple tasks and nod at the boss, it's not a big surprise they are considered inferior. If you are born into slavery, it's not a big surprise you actually feel inferior. That does not mean their society was based on having black slaves, as I pointed out.

The same is the case for the Hitler Jugend. They were raised with a certain idea and I do not blame them for believing what they were told. This is not the case for the nutjobs who started it all.

[A Confederacy of Dunces?]

Then we'll just have to agree to disagree I suppose.

[A Confederacy of Dunces?]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

By your reasoning every law would only exist because people thought it was unnatural to not violate them. The leaders of the Confederacy thought slavery was natural, as witnessed by thier own words, but knew that some other people didn't and they wrote that clause in case people tried to commit the "unnatural act" of banning slavery.

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Not unnatural to violate them, unnatural to change them.

Which would only happen if the government was overthrown by someone not sharing the Southern moralities, making the constitution nothing more than a piece of paper anyway.

[A Confederacy of Dunces?]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

How many have to die before you think that slavery wasn't as bad a the nazies?  This type of evil is evil, regardless of the number who actually died.. 

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If you read back a bit, you will see that I do not consider the amount of casualties any kind of benchmark. That amount is not measurable anyway.

What sets slavers apart from nazis, is the fact that slavers acted on economical basis, they swapped whites for reds just as easily as the reds for blacks. Their view on the value of human life is not one I share, but it's not as horrible as blaming an entire group for something they didn't cause, then exterminating them altogether.

In the slaver's mind it is their right to prosper on the loss of others. In the mind of a nazi, it's fine to commit genocide without any valid reason.

[A Confederacy of Dunces?]

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Dresden wrote:

Are you suggesting that no black person has ever been killed in the name of white supremacy?  Because, that would be the only case in which your point would have any validity whatsoever.

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I am saying that racism and genocide, or more precise, racism embedded in society and a society based on the extermination of an ethnic group are not the same, not even close.

If anyone starts preaching the extermination of an ethnic group, and as long as the person doing so might have the opportunity to execute his insane ideas, and is aware of it, whether it results in no casualties at all or in 500 million, I will consider that to be as evil as nazism.

[New physics causes lag with mega prims?]

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Nova Convair wrote:

 

So with some blind actionism the lag will stay for sure.

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On the contrary.

SL will be pretty damn empty though.

[A Confederacy of Dunces?]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

The Constitution of the Confederate States of America literally had a clause saying that the government was forbidden from ever passing a law forbidding Negro slavery.

Article I, Section 9, Part 4:

"No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves, shall be passed."

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Which indicates to me that they didn't find it natural at all to have slavery. Would that have been the case, why would they have such a clause?

[A Confederacy of Dunces?]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

The Jim Crow laws and the Nuremberg laws were both the most those societies felt they could get away with at the time. The difference was  the Nuremberg laws came before the highest level of atrocity and the Jim Crow laws came after (and after an incredibly bloody war.)

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I do believe that to be true, the laws going as far as public opinion would accept. Still I do not believe the Jim Crow laws were ever a preindication of mass murder (I think your blue quote pretty much proves that), where the Nuremberg laws were. Of course that's impossible to prove.

 

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As far as the portion of your quote I bolded, the Vice President of the Confederate States of America begs to differ with you - he said slavery was the "cornerstone" of the Confederacy, in so many words. Apparently you didn't read the entire thread:

[...]

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I was referring to the origins of American or U.S. slavery, not the confederate society. I'm sure after so many generations, a lot of people considered slavery to be a big part of their heritage or way of life. You have to place the speech, on the eve of the civil war, in that perspective.

[A Confederacy of Dunces?]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

Difference between Jim Crow laws and the Final Solution? Huge. Difference between Jim Crow laws and the Nuremberg laws of 1933 to the beginning of World War II? Very small.

There's an atrocity that needs to be added to the side of slavery in the Western Hemisphere -

the slave class wasn't even originally part of the society in the first place.

They had to be shipped in because most of the original native population/slave candidates died off.

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/slaveship.htm

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Exactly. The (1935) laws were very similar. That's why I do consider it a leap, not a warp. It's frightning to see how the nazis took this enormous leap from segregation to extermination in under 10 years. The circumstances were there, if not the intentions. I do not see how the Jim Crow laws would have ever resulted in genocide.

U.S. slavery has its origins in Europe. From white slavery it became red slavery, until it was more economical to use black slaves. This is where the two "ideologies" differ so greatly. Slavery was not a goal, the goal was cheap labour. So the driving force was cold economics. Although woven into Southern society, it wasn't the basis of the community. It wasn't an ideology.

The Final Solution was a goal, although the question might be what the result would have been had it been completely executed. You could argue the goal was creating a common enemy to strengthen the nation, with the extermination of Jews being the means. Either way the society of nazi Germany was built around creating enemies and getting rid of them one way or another. The driving force was hatred.

[A Confederacy of Dunces?]

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Dresden wrote:

It's not the level of atrocities committed, but the incredibly similar, hate-fueled, supremacist ideology of both movements which are legitimately comparable.  Just because one people had it worse than the other, doesn't make the ideology behind such atrocities of either level any more or less atrocious.

...Dres

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You completely miss my point, as do irihapeti and Theresa apparently. If we're talking sheer numbers, many more people were and are affected by racism and slavery than there are by genocide. Unfortunately, racism is widely spread throughout history and throughout the world, and (again unfortunately) can be considered quite normal. It's embedded in human nature, based on a healthy fear of the unknown.

It is a big leap from "we are not equal" to "you are a pest to society and you need to be exterminated"

Certainly not the same ideology.

[A Confederacy of Dunces?]

Hence my last reply.

The leap from slavery to extermination is huge, but not as huge as the difference between the Jim Crow laws and the Final Solution (or Action T4, or the extermination of gypsies, homosexuals etc).

So please keep those three apart in this discussion.

"Unwanted" as not wanted to be part of society, as in segregation, is not the same as not wanted to exist. I think I was very clear on that earlier.

[A Confederacy of Dunces?]

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irihapeti wrote:

the people on the slavery train would dispute the distinction. The slave would say that they are enslaved until they die

your argument seems to be based on the premise that is better to die later than sooner 

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There weren't any slaves on the "Jim Crow trains".

Anyway, you seem to be saying that the mere fact of "living" has no value. Only freedom has. Slaves, as hard as their life must have been, were able to have friendship, family, laughter, and above all hope. Their history has been a struggle (and it still is for their descendants), whereas the nazis wanted to remove entire groups of people from history altogether.

The big difference is one group is viewed and treated as useful, the other as unwanted.

[A Confederacy of Dunces?]

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irihapthe effect is the same tho

the effect of the act. The act of subjugation

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Subjugation is not the same as removal.

The effect of slavery is one group being exploited. The effect of extermination is not comparable. You can't compare denying a group of people certain civil rights to denying them from existing altogether. Well maybe you can, but it is beyond me.

To paint a picture...

You can't possible mean putting a certain group of people on their seperate train is the same as putting a group of people on a train on their way to a certain death?

[The ONE Unmakable item on SL]

Just for old times sake....

RenderDynamicReflections

[A Confederacy of Dunces?]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

The leap between Nazi Germany and the slaveholding/Jim Crow culture of the southern United States may not be as great as you think.

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That leap is enormous.

Segregation was only the starting point in nazi Germany. From segregation it became imprisonment and within a few years it became extinction, you even mention that yourself. Nazi Germany was based on pure hate and terror, towards all citizens not fully subjecting themselves to the dictatorship. "Elements" that didn't fit the "superior nation" were to be removed completely.

One could write pages and pages full of examples and in depth explanations, but the above alone sets nazi Germany far apart from Jim Crowe culture, or (southern) slavery even.

[3d Mesh Help]

What version of 3ds max are you using and what kind of exporter (and version)?

[Maya & Mudbox & multiple texture tiles on a single object]

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Dictatorshop wrote:

Ok totally off topic but how do i change my picture on my posts?  I am NOT a gorilla lol!

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My Settings (on top of your screen) -> Avatars

[Mesh Swing]

If it's the chains causing the issue, consider keeping the chains on your highest LOD and use planes with a texture for medium and lower. My experience is that such a setup is hardly visible and with the right kind of chain they shouldn't cost more than 1 or 2 in landimpact.

Here is a chain I made a long time ago, slightly more difficult in setup, but similar nonetheless. At the size of yours it would have a landimpact of 1.

 

Also look up if it's the download weight or the physics weight causing the high landimpact...

[Use Sketchup DAE for mesh/model?]

Any proper 3d program will do. So Maya, 3ds Max, Blender, Cinema 4D, Rhinoceros will all work fine. All have their advantages and drawbacks.

If you are only going to use it for SL, Blender is probably your best choice. Not only is your investment minimal (it is free), most people here on the forums use it for SL, so you are likely to get the most feedback when you run into an issue or when you have some questions.

If you want to take your models to the next level with realistic normal mapping, sculpting programs like Mudbox, ZBrush or Sculptris (free), preferrably in combination with a bamboo pen, are very helpful (and a lot of fun to work with). Blender has a built in sculpt function as well.

[Possible name for SL2?]

The final name will be "hell on line".

[How do YOU deal with inventory?]

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Nova Convair wrote:

I tell you a secret.

If you want your inventory to shrink you have to delete stuff !

Of course you can start to put things into boxes. But will you ever remember what is boxed where and find one of this boxes, rez it and search the contents of it? Really? It's easier and faster to just delete it.

 

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You're a terrible hoarder!

[Stealth Helicopter]

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irihapeti wrote:

here you go. Is a piccy of one

can get one from this unknown place. They have heaps of them. Mostly kings buy them

 

 

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That's not invisible....well maybe to the pilot who was obviously blind as a bat.