Shnurui Troughton
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Posts posted by Shnurui Troughton
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2 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:
Even if what you said about PNG was true, SL doesn't use PNG. All uploads are converted to JPEG2000.
It is true.
Pre pipeline, aka, raw, images are kept in .png/.tga format.
They are converted into jpg-2k, now, before being sent to the viewer.
Before the pipeline upgrade for ogl encoding they were shipped in png/tga.
The server compresses the multiple images when installed on an object into jpg-2k, which is the first jpg encoding to actually enable alpha.
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6 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:
What data would the system use to calculate it?
Personally I don't see how much better bumpy, shiny body paint is than regular body paint. I'm one of the biggest advocates for BOM but I've never said it's a good solution for outer-layer clothing.
One of two options.
One, make separate mesh clothing work the way it always has, with the addition of an image fetch for the print.
I could see that causing hems and seams in the wrong spot.
Two, png encryption actually being read, like it already is on every other object.
As far as I know there are two types of png encryption.
Color slide and alpha layer.
An alpha layer encryption has a print, a typographical layer, a shiny layer, then an alpha layer, all in the same file.
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I'm confused.
I was "quoted" but my statement, "BOM isn't going to be the only option until it's third party." wasn't.
Nothing is the "only option" until it's released into the wild webs and everyone uses it.
Second confusion:
Creators are marketers?
Some of us aren't rich and famous, even enough to fix known problems with our stuff, (like bellies that go cubist because of bad maths. Seriously, I think a small paid vacation could help with that.)
Third confusion:
Creators are supposed to find all their own bugs, even on demo and freebies?
Maybe follow the creator's (s') bug reporting issue instead of crying over a haypenny or quincent on the shop page?
Fourth confusion:
Is clothing for mesh bodies sold as only models?
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9 hours ago, Kai Lyvingstone said:
I am very very confused by this feature. So like... I have a bunch of old system shirt/jacket layer clothes in my inventory. So I can't just 'wear' them and they automatically go over my avatar now? I thought that's how easy it was gonna be, sigh. It seems so needlessly complicated.
Sl "programming"
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I'm confused as to why people think new tools make people stop making new things.
The only thing with OLD mesh bodies is you won't be able to use OLD skins and clothing, unless they were forced onto the OLD, SYSTEM DEFAULT uv mapping.
Even with the new arm and leg channels, the system default mapping isn't the end all, be all.
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5 hours ago, FaintOutline said:
Well today I loaded a BOM body, Slink and a BOM head Lelutka, and used new Glam Affair skins, and Bolson tattoos. It all went easy as could be -- https://gyazo.com/60c28d6cffd72c29a7bcbf33f0bb1508.
UNTIL -- I tried to use my clothes.
Almost nothing worked!! 3years of making mesh clothes which rely on Alpha cuts left me with nothing but a huge mess. I would literally have to open Photoshop and make thousands of alphas, months of WORK not game play. What I do not personally understand -- is it completely impossible to have an alpha HUD? Is Slink's solution to build thousands of Alphas in Photoshop the only way? If so I will not be using BOM, I am simply not willing to give up all my mesh clothing (I rough guess is only about 10% of my clothes have alphas) . I don't think Photoshop should be part of the SL experience for every user.
If BOM becomes the only way -- is there a solution other than trashing many thousands of clothes?
Not going to be "the only option" any time soon. Bom has to be third party released, first.
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1 hour ago, Kitsune Shan said:
Not sure if being serious or just trolling but in my whole life as professional 3D artist neither as game developer I have ever seen using the word material to refer to the physics of an object. You usually use words like "physical", "cloth simulation", "dynamic bones", etc... But never "material". Not on offline renders, not on real time engines like Unity or Unreal, not even on CryEngine. I'd recommend to search for the words material and shader so you will understand the real meaning of them.
Also, would be great if we keep the subject to BOM.
Unfortunately, you forgot to tell that to linden labs, back in the 90s, when they decided "material" would be used as a physics property in their engine.
This includes, glass, rubber, stone, flesh, cloth, and yes, water.
Feel free to look at the singular: material sl wiki page.
This is not implemented in B.O.M. while, as a suggestion to add to B.O.M. keeps it on topic, it is only being considered.
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9 hours ago, OptimoMaximo said:
🤣
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Materials
Enjoy yours, 3d illiterate. The context was texturing and not physics, therefore the definition that goes is the one I'm linking.
Except there are actually two things wrong with your statement.
Material, SINGULAR, is for the physics control. Yes that would let us have bouncy hair and clothing without extra "bones."
Materials, PLURAL, can be done in the channels, giving clothing ridges at the seams and specular spikes.
There's a reason you switch to "alpha blending" mode for worn items.
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19 hours ago, OptimoMaximo said:
You sure that the one confused about terminology here isn't you? Materials in a 3d app define the texturable faces in SL, in SL materials are set of textures that define a surface rendering features like normal, glossiness, specular and environment maps.
Since the replies deliberately skip the inherent core of the implementation i described, which in lesser words basically is "BoM with materials but applicable to every item", I'm not going to follow up on any more illiterate replies from illiterates such those i received above. Those all seem to me like a deliberate provocation and an attempt to make me lose my patience. Enjoy your beloved crippled little feature.
Nope. They define the physics of an object. Yes, I'll admit i was wrong from my phone, without access to http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Material .
Enjoy your ignorance.22 hours ago, Alyona Su said:This is the primary *feature*, not purpose. The feature allows the original baking system to composite all those different textures into a single texture, then placing that single composite texture onto a single layer of a mesh object (in this case: mesh bodies) thereby (and the main purpose) eliminating the need for the additional three layers of the mesh object, which create rendering and resource load, etc.
Following the Linden-Created threads about BoM will make it's features and purpose clearly known. Though people have short memories and many will very quickly project their own theories as fact all the time. So meh.
Ok, so I missed a word.
The PRIMARY purpose is to USE the skin and clothing ATTACHMENT POINTS. This page calls them "Channels."-
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There seems to be a lot of confusion as to what terms belong where.
Yes, B.O.M. or, Bakes On Mesh, is a nifty tool.The PRIMARY PURPOSE is for people with Mesh bodies to use OLD CLOTHING AND SKINS. That stuff you have floating around in your inventory that may or may not have cost you actual money.
Skins are a set of 3-4 textures, if you include the hair.
Clothing is also 1-4 textures, if you're just using the regular old stuff.
Textures are detailed images giving an area a look, such as clothing, tattoos and cosmetics.
Materials are also known as *Faces, or *Zones. They define where the above textures mete up with.
Yes, it would be nice if the uploader was fixed so that creators could label and forget in their tool of choice, (lower_body, upper_body, etc.) and have the B.O.M. auto assign the default basic beta version textures to the right zones*.
Yes, it would be extremely wonderful if there were some sort of Data Core that could be placed on an animesh to allow B.O.M. to work on single layer animesh items.But as someone noted, the heads haven't been replaced or even really taken a vacation to get fresh eyes on the problem.
They're doing great work, don't need to harsh their groove.-
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1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:
I'm sorry but I think you're the one off-mark based on that explanation.
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First of all, you don't "apply a UV." The UV layout is part of the mesh itself, not the texture.
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There is no "mascara UV" or "lipstick UV." There is only the "head UV."
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There is no "mascara UV" or "lipstick UV." There is only the "head UV."
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The UV map doesn't do anything for "alignment" on its own.
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"Orientation, positioning, and layout" are all the same thing and are done on the UV map. This can be used to align things.
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"Orientation, positioning, and layout" are all the same thing and are done on the UV map. This can be used to align things.
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In SL, any object can only have a single UV map.
- Materials allow separate textures to be applied to different faces. This is not related to the UV layout.
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You don't "use the same UV on multiple materials," it's the other way around.
- The reason why you can apply a texture to a mesh (for example, the lips) but not affect other areas of it is because the lips have a separate material from the rest of the head.
Right. You don't apply a uv. You apply a texture and the UV aligns and orientates the texture.
Please read slower.
Which is it?
Materials, which become "faces" inside Secondlife, affect access to uv mapping or lips have to be carefully painted?
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First of all, you don't "apply a UV." The UV layout is part of the mesh itself, not the texture.
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Materials affect layout and positioning.
UV affects texture orientation and alignment.
You can use the same uv on multiple materials, but they won't show up unless they're set to.
Simple example:
Cosmetic masks and face skin masks use the uv that includes hair, teeth, and tongue.
Yet, applying a mascara or lipstick uv doesn't change the face, except in earlier designs that had the slider values. Even then, they didn't affect the teeth or the back of the head, even though some maps "paint" those areas.
This was before layers were available.
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7 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:
No, because the UV map dictates how the texture is applied. Different UV map = different result.
If you have a body with custom UV maps, you'll be fine as long as you use custom textures that match with the UVs.
Not entirely accurate, but close enough.
7 hours ago, Cesartje said:What will happen with the bodies that don´t use SL UV maps and the bodies and heads that won´t be updated to BOM? Will they still be usable? I mean, will we be able to use the appliers we have on it?
Things that aren't changed, won't change. If you have a model that hasn't been updated since 2002, like a prim rabbit, it will work how it did in 2003. BOM won't even be visible to end users, unless the models are unlocked.
The applier tools that were available in 2001 will be available for all makers. You'll just apply custom maps to the correct skin zones, unless the object isn't linked to BOM.
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On 2/7/2019 at 11:44 AM, Blush Bravin said:
I'm really hoping that creators will do a plain BoM body with no onion layers, and provide a separate onion layer for applier clothing that can be attached when needed.
As one who much prefers applier stockings to mesh stockings, I really want that separate layer so the toe area of my stockings and socks fit properly. There's no way I want to have my socks wrap around my toes as though it's my skin rather than a sock. I also use tank tops under many of my mesh shirts that have too low a v-cut and prefer that the fabric of the tank not mold to the skin between the breasts so again, I need an onion layer to accomplish my desired look.
I am really excited and looking forward to BoM, though I have to admit that many in my circle of friends have grave misgivings about how well the feature is going to be accepted, especially with the problem related to using their thousands of appliers that simply will not work with BoM.
That is the reason the default avatar has one toe and no separate toe nail objects.
For us creators to produce a completely onion free avatar, it either has to the ultra simple, like a rag doll rabbit (Boid's nest) or mechanical.
Anything with separate toe nails will need the nails alpha layered out.
Anything with separate toes will need to be layered, even for socks.
20 hours ago, Fionalein said:You're funny... that's exactley how BOM works. You use the UUID of the complete bake in an applier script, duh...
Just because you don't usually see it because it happens automatically behind your back does not mean that it does not work that way
Which raises an interesting question @Vir Linden how do you make sure no one uses someone else's bake? Or could I happily redistribute my bake onto my alts for now (which designers will find pretty uncool)?
Ha ha hilarious.
See Cathy's post:
Tldr version:
Unique User IDs are unique to each user. They should not be accessible when they aren't in the current user's inventory.
My skins and tartans that are not in the default library, should, not be visible in a HUD, without the transfer of that texture, into the HUD or inventory of the EU.
The only way his transfer HUD should work is if he drops a copy or transfer texture into it.
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Sean, one of us is confused with what you're interpreting.
I want people to be able to move my non mesh textures onto their mesh bodies.
I know I will never recoup the lost lindens from the shift to mesh, but BOM gives me a chance to start making more, hopefully more attractive textures.
What we don't want us texture ripping, which on a high enough resolution screen is impossible to completely prevent.
What we do want is for those that buy our textures, to be able to use those textures.
No, we don't want uuid(s) shared, if that even works.
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30 minutes ago, Klytyna said:
Pay attention...
You WEAR your system skin...
Then you ADD not wear, your system tattoos tattoo layer...
Then you ADD not wear your system nail polish tattoo layer...
Then you add your system lace gloves/stockings/see-though-catsuit system tattoo/clothing layers...
On a system avatar, this should result in your nail polish being baked UNDER your lace gloves/stockings etc.
See... Tattoo layers are not JUST used for tattoos, they are also used for makeups, and some types of clothing, where you want upper body/lower body and hands/feet all in one item. That's how we used to get dressed back in the "Olden Days" of Viewer 2...
Maybe you remember those days?
Theoretically this should also work for this BakeFail-on-Mesh rubbish.
That was a response to Hilary Querrien, I asked what layer her nails were on.
That was Exactly why I made the response to Hillary Querrien.
If you have a problem with the way Hillary Querrien's avatar is working, maybe you should help her. -
9 minutes ago, Hilary Querrien said:
My gloves / stockings are on the clothing layer. So when I'm wearing them as appliers, the nails show *under* the stockings. However, if I wear the system versions (which are 'socks'), then the stockings get painted on beneath the nails. Similarly with gloves
It'd sort of be nice if bakes on mesh could be persuaded to bake the mesh body skin and nails first and then add the system layer stuff though I guess I have some hope of the suppliers of my usual skin producing a bakes on mesh compatible version as they're still selling stuff.
I don't understand.
Are your nails not part of your skin layer?
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1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:
What do you mean by this, exactly?
Exactly what I said. When the original model, aka Ruth, was designed, built, and released, linden labs cheated us, and them, out of having a left and right arm map.
The two arms in the SLUV are the inner and outer arm, on both sides of the model.
There is no left and right on the original arm of the original model. There is no left and right on the original foot of the same model.
This was not corrected in 2.0
This is only correctable by mesh designers, but does not allow for use with the bakes on system.
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21 minutes ago, Hilary Querrien said:
Hi. I found this when I was going quietly nuts with a mesh body (I've only just got my first) trying to work out how to get two tattoos and downloaded the test viewer, got the applier, and asked linden to enable me for the beta grid. And went there and tried it.
It is quite wonderful (and I only had one false start at getting it working which is nothing short of miraculous for me). And thank you Linden family for the work you're putting in on this.
One thing that is a bit worrying though - the feet and hands look strange if they're mesh (Slink if that is relevant). You get the nails from your system layer skin and also from the mesh versions, and if you wear system gloves/stockings the mesh finger/toenails still come above them (and I rather like being able to paint my toenails, which I couldn't till I got a mesh body). Is this being looked at?
Hugs
That comes from the fact that the original maps did not detail the toes in a good manor and the hands were cheated into one arm, on one side.
Depending on your mesh model, the feet and hands may have been remapped.
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I'm slightly confused on the uuid bakes on issue.
To clarify:
There isn't a way to assign an uuid to a slot (head/torso/eye/aux etc) using existing data/lsl? Wasn't there a clothing script that did just this?
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On 7/17/2018 at 11:13 PM, Faenzo said:
The majority of the comments in this thread is nonsense that to me looks like pointless obstacles to the development of this feature. It looks good, it seems to work, it will be useful for everyone. Now, what's the status on this feature? What's missing, what's the current issues or bugs, what's to be developed yet and does anyone have an estimate of when this is going to be released?
Soon. It will be released Soon.
The status is good, beta is working well.
So far the only "problem" is having to wear each item in order to link it to the corresponding layer. And the lack of Isolated body parts.18 hours ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:The only issue i'm seeing... what will happen if some popular but unscrupulous creators decide to reserve themselves exclusive use of some of the layers for their own non-body related products...
But then that's the same issue we have with the spare bento bones, some things simply cannot be used together.
Serious Confused look.
Are you talking about wearable pets, maybe weapons, and shields?
How is it unscrupulous to use unused fields for unknown items?
On 7/16/2018 at 1:13 PM, NanR said:I just downloaded the the sl project viewer for bake on mesh and cannot see a radio button per instructions at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Project_BakesOnMesh/5.1.6.516270
In fact I see nothing under EDIT for Bake. Please help.
Instructions -- You can now apply these textures to your avatar’s object attachments' diffuse texture slot. Right click on the attachment, click edit and from the edit face menu select textures. Click the diffuse texture icon to open up the texture picker. The texture picker has an extra radio button mode called 'bake' for selecting server bakes. The 'bake' radio button mode has a dropdown for selecting BAKE_HEAD, BAKE_UPPER, BAKE_LOWER, BAKE_EYES, BAKE_SKIRT, BAKE_HAIR, BAKE_LEFTARM, BAKE_LEFTLEG, BAKE_AUX1, BAKE_AUX2, BAKE_AUX3 server bake textures. When an attachment is using a baked texture, the corresponding base mesh region of the system avatar is hidden.
It's under Edit>TEXTURES, click the Texture Field. Look at the Select Texture window. Right below that is the Bake Radial.
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Yes the ears had two large areas dedicated to the ears.
No, this does not work with large ears as those two small(relatively large) areas are 1.) Attached to the head and 2.) Force the back of the ears into a weird perspective that is fine for hidden eat backs, but very destructive for visible eat backs.
In order to use the internal animal ear on the standard sluv, you completely warp the back of it. You can spoof that to the top of the head, but that causes the same problem we have with the arms.
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"What are the(aux) gong to be used for?"
I can't speak for every NHC avatar creator, but, as of today, I plan on setting the ears to 1, the tails to 2, and wings to 3.
3, could also possibly be the hinter of non winged hexapods. This includes centuars, and the like.
This could evolve as I finish remapping the current uv maps, but this is the way I suggest, and will more than likely use.
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3 hours ago, Yuufarlc said:
The system alpha layers will also be baked onto the mesh body, so a mesh clothing maker woudl then make a alpha to be worm with the clothing, when baked on the mesh body the alpha will hide all parts, eliminating the need for any of these hud cuts
as such when using Bakes on Mesh you do NOT wear a full body alpha
Imo, alpha cuts are for noc(not original content) that isn't made with or by the original.
Onion avatars don't need alpha cuts for the onion layers, do they?
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Bakes on Mesh Feedback Thread
in Bakes on Mesh
Posted
No, but if you download the original SL UV Head map layout, you'll find a pair of inverted lash paths in the top right corner, approximately 8x24 map squares in shape. It's demarked by a thick black line with small lines feathered out from it.