Wayfinder Wishbringer

Okay, that's a little more clear. I have to agree with Burn on this one. While I'm seeing a lot of Linden Lab talking out one side claiming to be more understanding and user-responsive, every single thing I've seen them do proves just the opposite. Consider: At SLCC, Q Linden-- from his hospital bed-- admitted they made a serious mistake with Viewer 2.x by not asking customers what we wanted and needed in a viewer (duh). He promised they would not do that again. Okay, fair enough. At the very same conference they announced display names... something which they didn't ask us about, just dropped on us like a bomb, thus proving what Q had just said was total hogwash. Okay, so let's give them extra benefit of the doubt and call that cross-message and interim decisions. So Linden Lab now has time to clean up its act, yes? So they turn right around and slam the Xstreet / SL Marektplace decision on us (without asking our opinion or input), slam us with the AU decision (without asking our opinion or input) and without any advance notice. Okay, so they're the big bad corporation and they can flat well make whatever decisions they want to make without consulting their customers or doing any market research whatsoever... regardless of the investments we have made in this system, and regardless of how much their decisions affect our investments. They have that legal right, no matter how unethical and abusive it may be (or at least, until a customer files a suit or class action suit challenging that position). But that is a far cry from Linden Lab listening and trying to improve the system. I speak frankly and bluntly here, because the time for polite and PC is long past, and I will speak very plainly and honestly here: I do not recall one single decision Linden Lab has made in the last two years that put the welfare and benefit of their customers ahead of company whims and profit motive. They have not improved the system; they have damaged it. They have not improved our user experience; they have seriously impaired it. They have not made it easier to be a resident of Second Life; they have made it far more difficult... to the point that my group is pursuing alternatives. We are by no means alone. Recently 500 sims shut down on Second Life. They're not growing, they're stagnating and even declining. Mind you, if I step back and take Linden Lab out of the picture, if I ignore the company, and Xstreet, if I don't buy land and don't script and don't build and don't pay Linden Lab a dime and just explore... sure, Second Life can be a fun place. The problem is, I'm not here to just explore... and neither are the thousands of other members who invest time and effort and serious money into this platform on a daily basis. Our user experience is being seriously impacted, our goals destroyed, our efforts negated. So yeah, I agree with Burn. In his message, he talked about Linden Lab pursuing all these new, totally unnecessary directions when such core, basic things as group chat, system search, notice delivery and other fundamentals don't work and haven't worked for years. I agree with him that we're not seeing these things fixed, and we are certainly seeing little or no visible improvement in the overall function of Second LIfe. They're forcing on the grid a new viewer that is far inferior to the prior one. They've created a new marketplace that is inferior to the old one (and that has merchants tearing their hair out). They've totally obliterated AU in one fell swoop, without so much as an apology for such severe mis-management. So... I'm probably being very blunt here, and certainly pulling no punches, but in my personal opinion, LL deserves no one defending their position or claiming they're working at improving things... when that is obviously not the case (not that people don't have the right to defend LL if they feel it's proper. Freedom of speech and all that). But no matter how much a guy tells me he's working hard to fix the dam... if I see more and more leaks-- many of which are a direct result of him punching holes in the wall-- I figure he's not doing his job. ; )

Cybin: "To which i reply, yes.. exactly. Except that you're telling LL to stop what they're doing (which will fix stuff) in order to fix stuff. The tech they're bringing over from AU, theoretically, will fix each of those issues to some degree. At the very least, 1 or 2 of them. So, on that point, LL ARE listening and trying to fix those things." Hi Cybin. Could you explain that a little more? Because I don't understand that statement for several reasons: 1) To my understanding, AU code has nothing to do with SL coding. 2) I don't understand how "tech they're bringing over from AU" is going to solve or fix anything. What supposed tech? And what does that have to do with chat, group notices being delivered, or search? To me, this is like saying throwing away all the apples and pulling over the apple cart is going to fix the rotten bananas problem. ; )

Victor1st: Those same people are now branding Linden Labs "vultures", and that word is about the only PG rated word i can use in this blog, the fan run and official WoW forums are ripping LL to shreds, same goes for some of the fan run EvE online forums...and when fan forums react, the print media takes up on it, or didnt any of whats left of the marketing folks in LL realise this? Are you kidding Victor? This is Linden Lab. Of course they didn't realize this. ;D This is the company that is historically unable to see through clear glass, unable to foresee consequences for actions, unable to predict logical results of decisions. No man, they're pretty clueless. And I don't say that to be snide; I say it as a statement of obvious reality. That much is apparent in they way they've handled just about every decision they've made for the past two years. OpenSpace bait-and-switch, Viewer 2.x, Display.Names, XstreetSL, AU, not to mention their continued failure to fix core, basic, critical grid issues as stated by Burman. Naw, this is a clueless company that appears to be totally out of touch with their customers. That much is apparent by the number of people leaving SL, the number of sims closing down, and the increasingly hostile customer atmosphere in response to their blogs... all of which doesn't seem to even phase them. We-Say-So Inc. blunders ever onward. At least they have folks like you and me and dozens (hundreds now?) of others to point out what's about to hit the fan after they've already made irreversable decisions. They really should listen to what you posted above. The shame of course, is that if they'd ask us before making those decisions, they might avert yet another potential disaster. But no, this is the company of self-destructive management. LOL. I gotta tell you, I have seen few companies consistently operate in such a totally customer-abusive manner... and survive. Burnman: "Seriously Linden Lab, do you really not understand this? Do I have to write it in crayon? Second Life already IS a social network!! You want to improve and enhance social networking here? FIX GROUP CHAT. IMPROVE IN-WORLD PROFILES. FIX IN-WORLD SEARCH. FIX THE GROUP SYSTEM. You can't effectively run the service you already have, yet you keep adding more CRAP to the pile." Well-said Burnman. Very on-the-mark. Don't hold your breath though. LL has a long history of ignoring every point you made. We've beeing shouting these very things for years and they still haven't listened. That's just sad. Still, good and valid post. It's a shame that LL seems to think we're all just a bunch of clueless morons who don't have any idea how business is run. Ignore the fact that if they'd simply listened for the past 5 years, they might be booming instead of losing customers and sims. That concept escapes them. Philip is the big-bad-CEO who's running a "$100 million a year" company! (ignore that WoW pulls down 1 1/2 times that much every month). Obviously Linden Lab thinks their current and past level of performance is just wunnerful... and plans on more of the same. That's often the result of limited success; they're so intoxicated by the speed at which they're travelling that they fail to see their true potential, the immense problems being currently experienced-- or the brick wall toward which they are driving.

Prok: "Could we get an honest figure for how many non-SL accounts were on AU? It was definitely not the place where WoW players went, they have other sites. So Im thinking this is all rather contrived." Making unsubstantiated "factual" statements again Prok? On what facts do you base your "definitely not" claim? ... or accusing other's statements as being "contrived"? Seriously Prok, by your own admission you have no idea how many non-SL accounts on AU, so why put yourself in the position (yet once again) of openly contradicting the statements of another user (pretty much openly calling her a liar as far as I can see, and insulting her to boot). You are an adversarial person, Prok. That can be a good thing in some instances. But you're adversarial almost all the time, in every thread I have ever read your posts. You pick a victim and go for the kill... warranted or not. Your overall atttidue toward other people Prok, is disrespectful. And often, you don't stop to think before attacking. For the note: you could have stopped with your first sentence and made the point. All you needed to do was ask how many non-SL accounts were on AU. Then provided that information, you could have gone from there. Without that information, your accusations and statements are groundless, just yet another Prok opinion pulled out of thin air. (Of course, I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for Linden Lab to honestly and openly answer such a question. They're not known for open dialog and disclosure.) To answer your statements and claims, let's give this some actual thought: No matter how many "other" WoW sites there are... it doesn't mean WoW players didn't make extensive use of AU. If anything, the Internet is diverse. For the clue: AU was functional and apparently significantly active BEFORE Linden Lab bought them (which is likely why LL bought them in the first place). I doubt the existing members shut down and stopped what they were doing just because AU was acquired by Linden Lab. So my answer to your question, based on simple common sense logic: how many non-SL members were on AU? I'd estimate a sizeable percentage chunk: all the people that were members before LL bought the board. So Prok, think before posting insulting repsonses. I know you are not an unintelligent person. I think you simply need to have a bit more respect for other posters. Make that a lot more respect. If these people were trolls or themselves offensive (such as one user above) I'd understand; but these people did nothing to offend you. You're entitled to your opinion, but it's good to look at that opinion from all sides instead of just posting the first thing that strikes you as a possibility. You questioning the number of non-SL users on AU is a valid question. But I think there was a likely answer apparent even before you posted.

Sedary: we encourage you to reestablish your connection with friends--and find new ones--in Second Life. A decidely peculiar way of encouraging people, by abruptly destroying their existing content and community, I have to agree. Linden Lab callously destroys one social structure, then encourages people to come use another? I wonder how long before they decide to callously shut down Second Life. This company strikes me very much as the type to "take the money and run". When that day comes, I think they will surely have no consideration for their customers or our investments.

As others have mentioned here, my personal opinion of this matter is that Linden Lab has acted irresponsibly and inexcusably in this matter. If you couldn't manage and support AU, you should not have aquired it in the first place. Once finding it did not benefit your company, you had the option of selling it or even giving it away to responsible parties. Not the first time we've seen LL pull this stunt. Your company purchased OnRes -- an excellent virtual market with a very good free networked vending system -- only to immediately shut it down. You could have left it open for the benefit of those merchants that chose to use it. But no consideration was given to the needs of others; as always Linden Lab had its agenda and detrimental consequences to customers be hanged. I didnt' use AU for one reason and one reason only: Linden Lab was in charge of it. I felt from the beginning this was a dead-end endeavor and decided to not waste my time on such nonsense. If LL had proved itself in the past to be reliable, responsible, and to take the overall welfare of its customers into consideration, I may have felt differently. But as it was, I knew how LL operates, the future of AU was pretty predictable, and I had better things to do. So... just stating my opinion here. I believe this remourseless blog is basically for the purpose to allow people to vent, ignore such, and move ever onward, "staying the path". And so Linden Lab alienates yet again thousands more customers... and makes their company just that much less desirable and that much less trustworthy to its users. You could have handled this differently; you chose not to do so. Open question to Linden Lab: how long do you think you can get away with the constant self-focused, abusive decision making before customers will decide they've had enough? Is Linden Lab totally unaware of the negative signs... or perhaps in denial? A company that abuses its customers, loses its customers. How many times will we have to say this before it sinks in? Our group is closing down a sim on SL. We have 8 sims on another grid with a 9th on the way, and have made the decision we will invest no further in additional SL lands, period. So Linden Lab, you are in position to make whatever decisions you want. Go ahead. But you have to know whatever decisions you make will bring consequences... good or bad... depending on the nature of those decisions. Just a word of caution from a long-time user. You will not continue in this current course without severe consequence. (BTW, when Ning changed their user policies, they gave their members 6 months to back up their files-- which in my case was quite extensive. You gave people one week? That is just seriously, bullheadedly wrong.)

Infiniview: LL you guys should send out an Email to every single resident of SL pointing to the original and subsequent blogs on this topic. Encouraging everyone to weigh in on this issue. Just one big problem with that concept: the average majority-users of Second Life are brain-dead danceboys who would simply respond "Whoa dude! Name change rights? For sure!". They wouldn't have a clue regarding the negative problems this would bring active residents, wouldn't care if they did know, all they want to do is dance and have cybersex. If anyone doubts this, look at where the major populations are. It's not in the builder sims. It's not in the scripter groups. It's not in the RP or EDU or art areas... it's in the dance clubs (and the ones showing the most T&A are the most popular). I am all for Linden Lab sending out a few emails as market research. But I think those emails need to be to the people who actually have two or three brain cells in recognition that SL is more than a cybersex dance zone. IMO, the people they should ask... are sim owners and Estate Managers. They're the ones that have to deal with LL and SL on a daily basis. Axi: For real? You don't know? Ok. I'll break it down: Anything that this has to do with current residents is *incidental*. "Display names" only addresses current residents as a badly tacked on afterthought... It's the hope of LL that allowing such a thing will entice these groups to join SL, and interface RL/SL interests. It has *zippidydoodah* to do with those of us already here. The technical solution of a name change token is actually complicated. It's really a pain in the ass, technically, which is one of the reasons it was never addressed before. LOL, your post gave me a chuckle. Good tongue-in-cheek summary of LL general attitude. However, I have to question the statement that a name change is complicated. Why should it be complicated? Supposedly everything in SL is tied into the UUID, not the user's actual name (which is supposedly why the UUID exists). So logically, the only thing a name change should entail, at all, is a simple change to the user NAME data field and TA-DA! All done! After that, the new name will be used to reference anything and everything pointed to by that UUID. That would be, unless some coders somewhere got stupid and failed to stick with that UUID and the user's actual name field is used throughout SL coding... making that simple step enormously complex and even potentially catastrophic, That would explain why they're going to the much more difficult trouble of creating this whole DISPLAY.NAME concept. Linden Lab coders wouldn't do something that enormously chowderheaded... would they? ; ) Since they are such good coders and so in touch with their customers... then why wouldn't they just do what we asked of them in the first place, and change the name field when a user requests such? They could even charge for the tremendous service of changing one single data field. That is of course the simple, straight-forward, productive decision. So one has to wonder why they don't do just that... and remark at the fact that Linden Lab isn't sayin'...

Nathan Voss: I think Display names is a bad idea, but if you must do it, show them in quotes "Mickey Mouse" style. That's actually an excellent idea Nathan. "Display.Names" would help to a great extent. I still believe no display name should be allowed that is identical to a real name (or "leeted" to imitate it beyond detection). But your idea would certainly go a long way toward establishing it's a chosen rather than actual name. I swear, this is such a large bag of cats Linden Lab has opened up. I for one, would like to hear why they didn't just take the easy route and give us what we asked for in the first place... the ability to change our actual names. That seems like such an easy and basic solution, one has to wonder why they're using this "around the bend and backwards" approach.

Jack, I first of all want to thank you and Linden Lab for paying attention to this issue. It indicates to us that finally... Linden Lab seems to be starting to listen. Had DISPLAY.NAMES been implemented in its initial concept, there is no doubt as to the extreme level of abuse that would have followed. (Which to be blunt, suprises me that such escaped management from the start. It was fairly obvious.) Even with these new changes, there isn't really a change. It's nice you folks are defaulting to the preferred setting, and it is VERY nice you're considering further measures. Such measures will surely be needed. Here though, is a thought for consideration: Why is Linden Lab continually giving users what we never asked for in the first place? Viewer 2.0, SL Marketplace, DISPLAY. NAMES. What's with all that? That's not what we asked for, any of it. What we asked for was the ability to officially change our names. That would have presented little or no problem. Pay a reasonable fee, be granted a name change. If that needs to be changed again later, pay another fee. We wouldn't be allowed to choose a name similar to others, and intelligent software would prevent "gaming" the system with "leet" spelling. (for example, entering PHlLLlP LlNDEN -- lower case Ls in place of i's). Are names themselves tied into the system? Or is everything identified by user UUID as it should be? If the mistake has been made of tying names into areas of the system, that could be coded/fixed. What we didn't ask for was the ability to choose a secondary, "fake" name, that would cause serious and massive confusion throughout the grid. In short Jack, no one asked for display names. So why did LL come up with this supremely problematic idea? Why did you folks not supply the simple solution we had asked for-- the ability to change our names to something else. These are the bottom core issues. I'm glad to hear LL is paying attention to this matter. I'm glad to hear you're starting to realize customers sometimes do know what we're talking about... and that we can help the company avoid making serious errors. But... the question here with DISPLAY.NAMES is this: are you providing what the customer wants and needs-- or what Linden Lab believes they should want and need? The former is a good way to conduct busienss. The latter is what's gotten the company in trouble in the past. What we need as customers... is for Linden Lab to stop second-guessing what we need. Thanks for listening Jack. It's a refreshing change. : )

Prok: "I won't even bother to answer Wishbringer's rant as it is all too typical of the kind of response you can expect on the forums to trying to speak out against minority rule." That's strange Prok. From what I have seen as result of your poll and the comments of other users above... that minority that's trying to rule appears to be you.

Jopsy: "To be fair, the only meaningful thing that can be concluded from this sample set of 29 votes is that Prokofy isn't rigging her own poll. =)" LOL yes, I'd actually considered that possibitity. But as much as I disrespect Proks demeanor, I actually never really suspected her of playing her own poll. I think she would consider that "beneath her". I also questioned posting results with only 1 day on the poll, but on reflection felt that first-day response would likely be the most valid population sample that "poll" will ever have... directly from readers of this blog before anyone has a significant chance to game it. My guess is that those 29 votes are for the most part probably legitimate, one-person votes. Thus, the early response. No matter what course that questionable poll takes from this point on, the initial response, from her own poll (skewed as the poll itself was)... is now recorded and evaluated. : ) It reminded me of Linden Lab's own poll regarding Viewer 2... which was also skewed, and majorly backfired on them. 88% against, despite the obvious propaganda skew. Ouch.

Prok: "The poll on my blog will go on showing the artifact of the flashmobbing of online democracy. That's ok. Because if it were just a yes vote on a JIRA, they'd win, but what happens with the all-important "no" vote is that the hegemony can begin to be cracked. It's like the other poll that has had longer to go and has had less flash-bombing as a result. It shows very, very important dissent to the prevailing "wisdom" about Creative Commons. That's the purpose of democracy, to show dissent, to show minority opinion, and to evolve compromises." Jopsy, I can't resist this one. I was determined to ignore further Prok-rants, but I feel compelled to follow-up... about something that was quite predictable, both in results and in Prok's responses. Prok makes repetitious claims... no... insistant claims that the vast majority of people on SL don't use the mini-map. She is so insistant that anyone who disagrees with her is just clueless and has no idea what's going on with SL, while she on the other hand is so very much in-touch with SL and so very enlightened and a boon to the board. She is so convinced of her position she decided to post a public "poll"... which I stated at the time I would put no stock in. Why? It was foreseeable one of two things would happen: the poll would appear to support Prok's questionable claims and she'd crow about it forever (which I'd pretty much ignore, as I already stated about "Prok polls"), or it would verify my claims-- with the result that Prok would claim intentional skewing and foul play and still stick to her obviously-correct opinions. Right on the button. Poll results: No, it's confusing and in the way. 4.2% Yes, I find it useful. 91.7% I don't mind it. 4.2% What is the minimap? 0% So please excuse my "I told you so" attitude here, and frank presentation of the results thus far. First, just as background and without any intended pomp at all (just for factual presentation): I spent a considerable portion of my RL career creating professional evaluative surveys, so I know a propaganda skew-poll when I see one. To itemize "stunts" that were fully expected the moment Prok announced intent to post this poll: 1. "No, it's confusing and in the way". Prok posted her own preference as the first item. That creates instant bias toward her pre-supposed opinion... something that no valid researcher would do. You overcome all charge of bias by presenting the counter-thought first, so no one can accuse skewing of the poll. In this the poll fails right out of the chute. 2. "Yes I find it useful" is a proper presentation, without any apparent attempt to skew people against this presentation. Simple, to the point, accurate. That is a valid poll point. 3. "I don't mind it" isn't necessarily wrong... it simply draws attention away from the two major points "Yes" / "No"... and fails to establish whether the person acutally uses the mini-map or not-- which is the core objective of the poll. It doesn't severely harm the poll, but simply carries no benefit and does to an extent, skew it. By failing to impact the overall objective, this option becomes moot and irrelevant to the issue. In short, it was simply unnecessary. However, it could have been logically and reasonbly included as a harmless neutral response if not for... 4. "What is the minimap?" is valid to an extent, but again avoids the main question of "Do people use the minimap or not?"... and actually skews the entire poll toward the "no" concept (essentially, "what is the minimpap? equates to "no"). The fact that it has zero percent response indicates early on it is an invalid option-- apparently just about everyone knows what the minimap is. So what we have is a poll that contains one irrelevant option, one positive option and two negative options... ie, a skewed poll. Which is why I said early on that I wouldn't take stock in a Prok Poll at all... and I still don't, even though the poll is heavily insistant on the point I and others here made... that people do use the minimap. Even though I don't take stock in that poll (simply due to the skewed nature of the presentation, thus it is invalid to an extent)... it still does validate... to an extreme degree... that people do use the minimap. This is validated in two ways, by two possible responses: 1. Either the poll can't be "played" (which is essential to a valid polling) and a unique sample of users voted honestly and earnestly and the poll reflects that indeed, the vast majority do use the minimap or... 2. The poll can be played... and there were sifficient numbers of users who were adamantly against Prok's presentation and intentionally skewed the poll to make that point. (Is a poll that can be intentionally skewed even worth wasting the time posting?) I was not one of them. I voted once, with no alts. I resisted calling in my friends or groups to vote, for the specific reason that I refused in any way to skew the poll. Frankly, the only reason I voted at all was because such was necessary to see the results. Otherwise I'd have refused to participate in an obviously skewed, unprofessionally-presented poll. The result is the same either way: users have indicated they strongly disagree with Prok's assertation. Bottom line, Prok, you were flat out wrong. You had opportunity to openly and humbly admit that. You refused / failed, so here it is. According to current status of your own poll your assumption was wrong. Nothing that happens to that poll further will alter that situation... since by your own admission, that poll can be "firebombed". And that Prok, is how poll analysis is performed. That however, doesn't stop Prok. Her predictable response to the poll results? Does she say "Oops, my bad, you were right?" Of course not! This is Prok! It's "flashmobbing" (of course! Prok can't possibly be actually wrong, can she?). The "no" vote, rather than proved incorrect, now becomes in Prok's presentation "the all-important no vote" that is 'cracking the hegeonomy'... the "dissident, minority opinion" that will eventually come out on top and shine at the glorious end-day of the wondrous anti-fascist revolution!!! Okay, I may be exaggerating just a tad at the last there. Grant me that bit of satirical poking. ; ) LOL. Man, some people just can't admit it when they're just plain wrong. Prok, next time you decide to get on these boards and tell me (or anyone else) how much we don't know about Second Life, how wrong we are, how much we are out of touch with the users, I want you to remember this: (Others can stop reading now. Ranting to commence.) I founded the first themed group on SL to top 500 members. That group won three Metaverse awards. We made the papers when we left SL in 2006 as a visible objection to Linden Lab offensive policies... and made them again when we returned in 2007. I've been a merchant, scripter, builder, sim owner and group manager for almost six years (short one month). Elf Clan and the Poetry Guild (which I also founded as one of SL's oldest and most respected literary groups)... both have received wide recognition. Elf Clan is quite often on the leading-edge of Second Life trends (whether you are aware of that / recognize that or not). Historically, Elf Clan has tended to be the first sign of overall Second Life performance and customer atmosphere. And yes Prok, I do have my own blog as well, as thousands of readers are aware, and those blogs have pegged Linden Lab right on the head at pretty near 100% accuracy for years. I worked as a professional corporate consultant for over 25 years before retiring at age 48 (woohooo!)... and now I pretty much work at whatever I want to... which is Second Life, external grids (oh yeah, Elf Clan is booming elsewhere)... not to mention a considerable enjoyment of Netflix and really excellent home-cooked food. So no Prok, I'm not the clueless moron you like to regularly present. In truth, after that "poll" you took, I might throw those charges right back at you. So Prok, blow your own horn all you want, and tell us how you help so many, many people and how you are so very much in touch with Second Life and how Linden Lab listens to you and doesn't listen to us... but I think your "poll" snafu just bit you right in the butt. Ouch! That sux, huh? Amazing how fast that ego critter can turn right back on you. BTW Prok, notice the new "flag this comment" button on the SL Marketplace that's designed to help Linden Lab combat troll reviews and flamer comments? Check this JIRA to see who recommended that function: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-2535 . Check the time frame on implimentation. Filed Aug 7, implemented Aug 20. So who does Linden Lab ignore again? I may be blunt in my examination of SL and LL Prok, but it doesn't mean I don't try to help, and it doesn't mean they aren't aware of that fact. They know I'm outspoken. They also know I've been wanting SL to succeed for the last 6 years and that my posts- pro or con- are always with the intent of helping the company get on the right track. They know that like many others I am angry... and just maybe that's just one reason why they are making the changes they're making (not the reason, just one). If people like me are angry, as active as we've been on SL... they can ascertain that there are thousands of unspoken others who are just as ticked off. I think Prok, that is of overall value to the company. (Which is why I even spend time on these blogs at all.) (Okay folks, done now.) Please forgive me this direct response to Prok's typically degrading and offensive comments. She should check her facts before choosing targets to slander. So please excuse me folks, and also forgive me for crowing more than just a little. We've put up with this Prok nonsense and her demeaning and user-insulting attitude for years. Prok is at times brilliant. Usually her posts are primarily name-calling tripe. While I fully realize and expect this post will have no effect on her attitude at all and will be twisted around about as far as it can be twisted (as opposed to "You were right. My bad"), and that she will still continue in her inflamnatory and degrading posting method... still it seemed correct to post this, if nothing more than for the sake of archival record. Gah, what a stubborn woman. (Feel free to ignore me... according to Prok it's just a "guy thing". LOL)

Jopsy, probably one of the best overall retention summations I have seen. Of course, I can't agree with all of it... that just wouldn't be playing fair. ; ) For the most part, very insightful and well-stated post. There are a few areas on which I'd like to add additional thoughts. 1. 1 out of 10 retention rate? Last reading LL was boasting over 20 million "residents" (which we know of course is a severely bloated and useless figure... except to indicate how many have left SL). How many have left... is all but 750,000 (by Mark Kingdon's own admission). That is a retention rate far lower than 1 in 10. 2. Jopsy: "What?? NOOOO!!!! We meant Fix is without taking anything away!" When a true democracy DEMANDS the impossible... and is unwilling to pay more or make necessary sacrifices for what they want... who shoulders the burden? LL?" I will agree that a true democracy seldom (if ever) works in a business environment. However, this concept that LL has to cut features and functions to the core just to eliminate lag... or that current user demands are "impossible" to provide... is a falacy. In 2005, before they started stacking sims on server boxes (something which LL themselves have now admitted can have seriously detrimental effects on such shared boxes)... private sims ran like greased lightning. The mainland has always lagged like a fiend, but private sims worked well. Back then they didn't have the 1000 pixel texture limit, but those sims still worked. They also didn't have sim-wide lag every time someone teleported, sim-wide lag every time someone changed an outfit... and they didn't have MONO trashing the entire grid. Bottom line: this lag has nothing to do with "features". It has to do with Linden Lab simply not coding the system correctly, with them not taking advantage of multithreading and multicore as they should, and with writing buggy code that they allow to remain buggy for years on end while they play with new "toys" that further lag the system. We should be able to use SL, as it is, with all the current features, and experience lag only when avatars start packing a sim. We used to be able to pack 25 avatars to a sim before we would experience any lag whatsoever. Sound files would play immediately and would be in time with the gestures that trigggered them... not 30 seconds later. Music devices loaded and played without a hitch. Chat actually worked. So what happened between then... and now? I don't think customers are making unreasonable demands at all, nor do I believe the current usage demands are excessive. This is proved by the fact that sometimes our sims DO perform without undue lag-- which is the strongest indication there is nothing wrong with the sim content itself (although admitted that is becoming increasingly rare as LL further mucks up the system). As I told Linden Lab way back there in the "Lag Monster Myths" forum... the vast majority of lag is due to sloppy coding and server issues, as well as poor management that allows such... just that simple. (Sorry to be blunt but really, if someone doesn't cry out "The Emperor has no clothes!" the poor fool will just continue walking down the street deluded as to how fine he is... something we've seen going on at Linden Lab for years.) Want to fix the lag? Fix the code. 3. "Late abandonment". Absolutely true. But I think needing to be added to this is "user experience abandonment". While evidence indicates there is indeed an "exodus" starting that is composed of exactly the folks you describe-- older users who are just fed up with bugs and tech glitches and company attitude-- there are far, far more who came to the system, experienced lag or griefing or bugs or other issues, and just said "Wow, this is crap!" and left without bothering further with the system. Those are the lucky ones, the ones who realized the reality early enough to avoid making serious investments that they would likely have come to lose due to those very things. Others stuck with the system and now, in many instances, are plagued by the very things that caused those other users to leave, but are now too heavily vested in friends and effort to take the same route. But by far, I believe there are more who left early due to all these poor-performance and bad policy issues, than left later. Even if there was a mass-exodus from SL today, that would still be the case. Likely millions have left because of poor early user experience... possibly on level with those who didn't understand SL (where's the game?) and those who gave up due to the high learning curve. Early user "this is just sad" abandonment has been I think, very prevalent. Which is what we've tried to tell LL for years: when a person comes to SL and even chat doesn't work, they're likely to walk right back out the door. duh. 4. I would add to the above "user adversaries / enemies". These are people who were once avid users that Linden Lab, by one means or another, has turned into livid adversaries. Thousands of such were created during the OpenSpace/Homestead rip-off. Others have lost significant amounts of land due to Linden Lab customer-abusive policies, or have lost businesses due to LL's inexcusable tolerance of Copybot, others have left in moral outrage out of LL's years-long tolerance of ageplay. For whatever reason... these people have turned from very pro-SL users to (in varying degrees) very angry at Linden Lab. These people will take several forms: those who love SL but hate Linden Lab policies, those who love SL but hate Linden Lab itself, those who dislike or hate SL due to what they've experienced, and those who are actually anti-Linden Lab and would like nothing better than to see the company totally self destruct. I probably fit in there somewhere in the middle, someone who sees what SL could have been and am very disappointed at the failure of both the product and Linden Lab to live up to potential and expectations. I do intensely dislike Linden Lab policies on a professional level, finding them repeatedly unprofessional, dictatorial, customer-abusive and frankly often just plain goofy. I am a forgiving person by nature, but Linden Lab has gone way beyond any limits of rational company activity and has caused its users harm to the point that tolerance has reached near-zero level. I think, based on the tone of these blogs over the last two years... I am not alone in that position by a long shot. I particularly enjoyed your accurate portrayal of "newbie abandonment" (where is the game in this game?... from folks who don't realize it's a fully-functioning virtual society... we've seen a lot of that)... and "post newbie abandonment"... those who get it and want to take part, but find themselves overwhelmed by an existing structure that is all too much like real-life competition, and at which they have little hope of succeeding unless they are already experts in Maya and C++. We older merchants sometimes look back on our early builds that used to sell like hotcakes... and recognize they were very "newbie" attempts at creation. But back then, everything was newbie and some of the things that today are considered unspectacular, were considered quite spectacular in their day. In short, we got away with it because at that time, we were leading edge for SL. Today, we have to step up our game tremendously. Fortunately, we have the experience to do so. For newbs coming in and trying to start from scratch, the required learning curve is just overwhelming. So they resort to selling freebies or cluttering the marketplace with the same affiliate vendors over and over. The smart ones either give up... or they give up on actively participating and buy L$ to take the role of consumers (Nothing wrong with that. Gotta appreciate consumers. Most of us have taken that role from time to time in just exploring and shopping.) Anyhow, a great post that I felt compelled to feather a bit. Most insightful overall. : )

Prok... have you ever noticed that you seem to fight with everyone... from Linden Lab to the mildest and most innocent of posters? I mean, you argue and fight and rant all the flippin' time. I don't know as I have ever seen a thread in which you comment that you haven't devolved to accusing someone of being a geek or a nazi or some far out political lable you decide to paste on your numerous victims / adversaries. Once in a while you post something valid and sensible (all too rarely imo), but then turn right around and come across like someone who needs her meds adjusted. If someone dares to disagree with you, why, they're a sicko-gamer-fascist-dweeb that you just have to condemn in the strongest of terms. Geez, you act like a raving nutcase... all the time. And the very things you accuse others of doing, are in truth your own constant offenses. Add to that Prok an ego that seems to know no bounds. How many times in these threads have you self-proclaimed how great you are and how much you help others and how oh so much people pay attention to you and you know what's really going on... and of course, we don't and we don't help anyone and no one listens to us and everything we say is just "claims"... only Prok knows how it is, because Prok is so wonderfully great and wise and informed. Geez, what incredibly self-aggrandizing BS! We've seen you do this time and time again, on thread after thread. Reality check Prok: there's a chance you're not as amazing as you imagine yourself, are very likely a whole lot less "helpful" than you think you are, and frankly from what I've seen on your repetitious blogs, bat about 50 when it comes to making even rational statements, much less valid and sensible ones. After a while people get tired of wading through the garbage you constantly throw out. You seem to believe your very word is "the way things are" and everyone else has no basis for what they say, at all, ever. LOL Prok, you take narcissism to all new levels. Hero in your own mind. I'm not even going to respond to the actual statements in your preceding rants. Typical Prok verbal crappage.

Jopsy: "Ah, right, sorry, my bad. It's the rights of the minority to resort to name calling and cutesy belittling nicknames or any tactic available to undermine the collective will of their oppressor. I do actually agree with that sentiment and sincerely apologize.(and I say this without sarcasm, just to be clear)." LOL. Okay, you need to explain that one, because it comes across as "People have a right to be jackasses and resort to childish name-calling and unethical methods to attack those with whom they disagree." If you hadn't said you weren't being sarcastic, I'd have taken it for granted you were, because well, that's just nonsense otherwise. I know that's not how your mind works. So a little more explanation there please. Gotta be more to it than how it read. ; )

Nalates Urriah: "Instead they discuss things like the Lab being disassociated from customers. There is no evidence ever provided that is true, it is just opinion provided as fact. ... axes to grind ... agendas and past grievances... projecting..." I respect your opinion in this matter. I also think you're full of beans. ; ) Have you been reading the blogs, forum posts and external blogs lately? Are you aware that 500 sims shut down on SL from June 6 to August 31, or that SL has had stagnant and even negative growth for almost two years now? How do you ignore that reality... and present on this board that all this is just a few people with a negative attitude? Is that even a plausible position? If Linden Lab is in touch with its customers, then how would you explain the Homestead fiasco, Viewer 2, Display.Names, SL Marketplace, or even the format of these blogs and forums? Why are people leaving Second Life... because Linden Lab is in touch with its customers? Because they're making the right decisions? You present that these problems all exist because people have agendas or are "projecting"... and that Linden Lab isn't at fault in any of this. Seriously? You have a right to your opinion to be sure, and I will defend that right, agree or disagree. But with all due respect, from what I see, that opinion needs a reality check. "the derogatory poster usually posts from a limited viewpoint..." On the other hand, such posts are spot-on, from years of hard-core, hands-on experience and frustrations due to repeated company abuses, evidenced by users throughout the grid. If it was one or two people, sure, it may be just attitude. That is not what we are seeing here Nalates. We are seeing widespread dissent and perhaps... just perhaps... even the beginnings of revolution. You're trying to paint a picture Nalates, of customer opinion with no basis in fact. That's nothing but propaganda, as is evidenced from the details presented in these blogs and widespread customer reactions to Linden Lab policies. It is very obvious Nalates, that Linden Lab is out of touch with its customer base... or alternately, simply thinks their own opinions are more important than that of their customers. They wouldn't be the first company to make that mistake. You stated that "some are not going to get it". I think that some, Nalates, is Linden Lab... and folks who swallow the company line without question, despite what very visible evidence reveals.

Prok: "Again: most people ignore the minimap" Prok, I think I've discovered the main problem you have on these blogs and with interactions with other users: you seem to believe that your experience and opinion is "the way it is". I don't mean that as an insult. I want to get you to pause and think a moment: exactly what database or demographic did you examine to come to your reality that "most people ignore the minimap"... to the point that you repeatedly insist on presenting such as supposed "fact"? Don't get me wrong. You may be right. Or... you may be wrong. And that's the point Prok. The fact that you don't use the minimap has no bearing at all on the habits of other users. Tell me, you've done extensive polls on this have you? You've gone around asking hundreds or thousands of people, "Hey, do you use the minimap?"... so that you can come here and repeatedly insist on this point? Seriously Prok, wake up. You're entitled to your opinion. But unless you have some kind of hard-core evidence and data that the rest of us seem to be lacking... I think your continued insistance that your opinion in this (or any matter) is right... wears a bit thin. Every time. I may be very frank and blunt in my comments, but I do try to avoid making sweeping statements that have no basis in provable circumstance, historical evidence or valid data. I find it somewhat humorous that you appear to be presenting that we should replace a free, easy-to-use on-screen tool with something like Misti-tool... a heavily scripted product that costs what, L$500, and is banned in many places because of excessive lag. As far as geography... you mean... north south east west up down? Following a simple arrow in a box? That's "geography"? Are you serious? Repeatedly insisting on such sweeping claims really does nothing to encourage people to take your posts seriously. To be frank: I wouldn't really put much stock in a Prok poll if you did run one... and I'd be surprised if others did. Sometimes it's best Prok, to just say, "I don't use minimap and don't see its importance." That's a position others can at least respect. But for me Prok, I do use minimap... every day... and find it a very useful tool (or at least, it is when the arrows point the right directions. LOL. I swear, LL coding is so sad.) Apparently Jopsy does too, and I'd wager a whole lot more people use the minimap than you believe to be the case. You're entitled to your opinion, so long as you remember that's your opinion, and is not necessarily ours.

Q, first of all thank you for taking the time to answer some missives here, and especially thank you for taking the time to read this lengthy, lengthy blog (and it's very obvious you actually did so). That's something I doubt anyone expected... and I respect that. That said, I pretty much disagree with your whole answer. ; D I'll try to explain why, without pounding things into the ground, but doubt I'll be able to be brief and still get the point across properly. Hope you have a cuppa. : ) "I'm not going to defend past behavior; no point." Agreed, it's not your job to defend past behavior. We're not belaboring past behavior; we are griping about past behavior continuing in current behavior. We just use the past behavior as a touchstone to point out that current behavior has not improved. Linden Lab is still making arbitrary decsions, still going ahead with projects no matter what customers think, still ruling Second Life in a dictatorial, self-serving manner. I'm not saying that to be rude, insulting or mean. I'm making a statement of observable fact. That's why your customers are angry-- and outspoken. "I'm not on the Display Names team, so I'm not going to comment on it, except to say that pointing at something and saying "see, it's horrible!" isn't actually very convincing. But this blog post is not the place to have that debate." Q, we have said far, far more than "see, it's horrible!" Customers have stood up and openly told you folks in great detail exactly why we think it's a bad idea. Are you, the CTO of Linden Lab, unaware of those posts? How can that possibly be? (am I right... you are CTO, yes? If not, excuse the misinfo on my part.) Still, CTO or not, I would think you would be aware of the extensive posts users have left regarding the Display.Names issue. Experienced users have stated exactly the impact DISPLAY.NAMES will have on the grid once implemented (just like we warned you all about the effect the Homestead fiasco would have on the grid... and that you folks ignored until 5,000+ sims shut down). If you'd have listened to us early on, you may have cut your losses to 500 sims instead, but nuuuu. And that's what we're saying Q: Linden Lab habitually ignores customer feedback. You're one of the few Lindens I know that has the courage and decency to get out here with us on the front lines (which is why Q, we respect you more than others, even if our feedback in general is very frank). The comments on DISPLAY.NAMES was not to bring up DISPLAY.NAMES *here*, in this thread. It was to drive home the primary point we are making Q, namely, that Linden Lab is not listening to its customers (the ones paying the bills)... even when we find ourselves forced to scream our "feedback". Display.Names isn't the issue Q; it's just a symptom of the disease. "Voluntary polls and votes are basically worthless -- they're completely subject to advocacy and gaming." Yes Q... if they're conducted by a bunch of clueless chowderheads. Ghostly already covered this, but I'm going to repeat it: you get together with a large random sample of users, poll those users specifically for their feedback, and work with the results off of that. Yes, that takes time, effort, and enough skill to know how to conduct a proper, balanced survey in the first place. But companies do this every day of the week, successfully. It's called "market research"... something that we've seen very little of at Linden Lab. Most of what LL appears to do is, "Hey, we think this is a great idea. Let's inflict it on the grid without asking anyone." Tell me if I'm wrong. ; ) "But there are a lot of ways to do this badly. I think it needs careful discussion and a fair amount of time. I don't think now is the time for such a large scale project." Poppycock. I'm sorry Q, but there is always time to do a project right in the first place, rather than doing it wrong-- and redoing it and redoing it wrong over and over. There is nothing about a customizable interface, that would take any more time or be any more difficult to do than any other coding project. What it does take however, is a coding and management staff that doesn't constantly make excuses... and then keep foisting time-intensive and costly inferior product on their customers. (Again, I'm sorry for being so blunt, but you have to realize we've been telling LL this for years, until we're blue in the face. We are way past being "PC" in such discussions.) Q, I've been a businessman all my life. I know when to call an excuse an excuse, and I know how to get a job done when it needs done. From what I've observed, Linden Lab doesn't. The company is so tunnel-visioned it doesn't see the simple and obvious solution standing just to the side. I'll pass on some wisdom here my father passed on to me: Do it right the first time, and you won't have to waste time re-doing it later. "TPVs can afford to try partial solutions and see what sticks because they usually address an advanced use case. They can ship buggy, incremental work because their customers know that's what to expect. Our official solutions need to be complete and suitable for all users, including newcomers." I will second what Ghost said already: Linden Lab has never created a product that is reasonably bug free, met the needs of its customers, or that is "complete and suitable for all users"... and frankly I don't think you folks will ever do so. Linden Lab constantly "ships buggy, incremental work". To once again be blunt: Linden Lab has a long history of releasing on the main grid shoddy program design and coding, full of bugs that then remain on the grid for years. So please, don't tell us you can't use TPVs because they're supposedly buggier and more seat-of-the-pants than Linden Lab coding. You folks can't even get chat and group notices right. That's just plain embarassing. Frankly, the company could learn a trick or two from TPV coders. They have managed to accomplish something that Linden Lab has totally failed to achieve: They have given customers what we want and what we need in a reasonably bug-free format... far more bug free than comparable LL products. Not only that, they've done so in a speedy and timely manner...and they fix bugs. Seems to me they know more about what they're doing than Linden Lab. So your company might do well to incorporate some of their ready to use coding in your product... even if you have to pay them for it (which is only fair). "Well, we've said it before -- we know we missed the mark with some of 2.x -- but it's our base going forward." I understand. So do it the right way, and stop doggedly insisting on retaining problem areas that users have repeatedly screamed about. You folks are Ahab following the White Whale. So go ahead, pursue 2.x obsessively. Just do so the right way. You want to use 2.x as the base... go right ahead. But for heaven's sake, fix the interface. Otherwise, well... remember the Homestead fiasco...? (What's it take for Linden Lab to learn a harsh lesson... another 5,000 sims shutting down?) Back then people told you folks we'd shut down sims. Linden Lab ignored us. We shut down sims... thousands of them. Now people are telling you, "Force 2.x on us, and we're leaving." Pardon me again for being blunt Q, but what's it take for LL to get a flippin' clue? "'Open source is the problem'.... This is a philosophical question, and whether you believe it's true or not doesn't matter. The open source cat, so to speak, is out of the viewer bag, and no amount of coaxing will get it back in." Yes, the cat is out of the bag. What we (the people) believe does matter... because the people took that open source snafu and created your stiffest competition to date. Ergo Q... open source wasn't a "philosophical question" for Linden Lab... it was a boneheaded tactical business blunder, one that I and other professionals recognized as such the moment Linden Lab announced plans to do so. But then, like now, Linden Lab didn't care what we had to say about the matter, so we stood back and watched as Linden Lab in a self-inflicted one-two punch (open source viewer and homestead fiasco) put your competition on the map... where before you pretty much had none. That doesn't sound like a "philosophical issue" to me. It sounds like suicidal decision making. Do you folks now begin to understand the consequences of ignoring your experienced customers? Don't get me wrong; it's your company. You folks don't have to listen to anyone. Linden Lab can make its decisions however it wants. But... we customers do hold the purse strings. And in the end Q, it will be us, not Linden Lab, that makes the ultimate decisions... one way or the other. That's the point I and others have been trying to get across for years. "In short, we do care what you think, and what you say, and it's because you care that these discussions get contentious." In this we are in agreement, Q. Again I ask your toleration in my being blunt above. NONE of this was aimed at you personally. You're here. You took the time to read this blog. You answered us. Whether we agree or not, however we respond, you can know Q, that most of us appreciate you talking with us here. All that we've ever asked of Linden Lab is that customers have some say in the decision process. Why? Because those decisions affect us, they affect our businesses... and those decisions will determine the future of Second Life. In a way, we are all investors in this board. I would have to believe in fact, that customers as a whole have invested far more than the heaviest venture capitalists in your firm. Not only that, but we're out here, in the trenches, 24/7/365. We know how SL works, we know how it should work, and we know how we need it to work. No company that hopes for a profitable future should ignore that incredible wealth of knowledge... especially when ignoring it can lose that source of that knowledge... and the profits along with it. Thanks for listening Q. Expecially to cranks like me. ; ) But please... do listen. There are a lot of folks out here telling you folks the same thing... over and over.

I wanted to preface this with a statement: folks who know me and who know Prok know we seldom agree and usually don't even get along. So... when folks like Prok and I both start telling Linden Lab the same thing... and others are adding their voices in the same direction... that's when to start listening. Prok: "I'd love for you coding Lindens for once in your lives to meet with a group of 20 people who *aren't* the geeks. Who *aren't* the hacker freaks. Who *aren't* the JIRA lifers. Who aren't there to goof around with you, impress you, talk shop with you, suck up to you, or bond with you in tribal opensource ecstasy, but who are just there to tell you very, very simple stuff about how the viewer as it is now *hobbles commerce*. That's all. How it *destroys business*." Well-said Prok. I've told LL that for so very long. It all boils down to, "Why don't they ever ask us... the experienced users who have used this system on a daily basis for years, and who know what works and doesn't work. They need to ask not only the heavy-duty merchants but those of us who have to balance merchanting with runnign sims, managing a group, terraforming, designing, building, scripting, and much more. But the truth is, they don't ask us, by their own admission. So spot-on Prok! In the general industry such are called "research and test groups"... getting together with the everyday people... and even paying them... to find out what they think about the platform. If they want the real skinny... they could ask the ones that are known "dissidents", the ones who are not afraid to speak their minds and say, "Look folks, here's how I believe it needs to be done." Then they can combine and filter all that to get an accurate picture... if they are able to do so (sorry to be blunt, but I don't have a lot of faith in LL's ability to sift out information and come to a realistic conclusion). But yeah Prok, your statement is right on the button. Prok: "Let's start with the facts that are often denied: The open source movement in SL has not brought benefits, but has brought only destruction (libsl copybot, Emerald/Onyx/CDS griefing, extortion, etc.). None of the costs have been overweighed by any benefits like ostensible "bug finding"." I hate to have to agree, but Prok is right here. Now, I'm all for them open sourcing the viewer (I think from a corporate standpoint it was a really really stupid idea) but it has brought some benefits to the community at large (mainly, helping to put LL's competition on the map. LOL.). But Prok is right in basic concept... it caused a whole lot of majorly serious problems, not the least of which was CopyBot. Prok: "For example, arguing for 45 minutes about WASD is untethered from reality. Gamers are in the wrong place if they are in SL looking for WASD." I can't agree. I'm not a "gamer"... and I use WASD aaallll the time. Prok: "An honest and full poll would show most people do not use the mini map at all." I strongly disagree. Well, not disagree, but... "most people"... where is that demographic posted? ; ) I use the mini-map all the time. There is no better tool for finding where a friend walked or flew off to. It's on my screen all the time. IMO, it might be better to have it up on the top menu bar on constant display. That method is used by many, many systems. That mini map is a tool that I and my friends use regularly. Which is why Linden Lab has to realize Prok: there is a diversity of use out here. I respect you don't use your mini map and that you believe "most people" don't either. I think most people do. Who is right? Who knows. But obviously there is a diversity of use there... and the system needs to meet both needs. Prok: "They then claim that they do have all kinds of feedback from testers and commentators outside the office hour regulars, but the outcome never seems to show that." I agree with that entire post Prok. Linden Lab seems to have long had the impression that those who show up at Office Hours, or the "huge merchants" are a typical representation of SL populace. No, those huge merchants are in it for themselves. That's how they make a living. As far as the masses that show up at "office hours"... quite often those take the form of "lobbyists" for special concerns, not the everyday guy who happens to be working at 3 o'clock in the afternoon. The ones they really need to talk to: the sim owners (not the land barons... SIM OWNERS)... group managers, the smaller merchants who are just trying to eek out a few L$ so they can enjoy the game... the "oldies" who have been around a long time and are still here... even though being livid angry with Linden Lab. Get those people to speak their minds... and LL will have a good idea what's going on with Second Life. Gavin: "A mentality shift is in order for the Lab, in particular when it comes to covering the needs of the developers they rely 100% on for their continued success." Good point. : ) Snippy: "Gavin, you can't compare Apple with Linden Lab, that's like comparing McDonald to your local diner." Sure you can Snippy. Why not? And why can't you compare McDonalds to your local diner? They are both competing for the same market: the "eat out" segment. That eat out segment sometimes wants fine dining, other times quick fast food. But both restaurants have to follow the same rules: tasty food, clean food, proper service, reasonable prices, etc. It's quite easy to compare Linden Lab to Apple or even Micro$oft. It's also easy to compare it to World of Warcraft, Warhammer Online, Quake and Unreal. Sure, they are different. That doesn't mean they aren't swimming in the same lake. Snippy: "LL is already giving us a lot of attention, and we're getting more and more of it." IMO Snippy, they're giving us attention because more and more people are pulling the plug, and becoming more vocal about it. To fail to pay attention at this point would be to slice their own throats. The question here is: are they listening... or is it just the same-ol' "yeah yeah yeah" and then they do whatever they flat well want to. Snippy: "I see a lot of people complaining about not being listen to, but how many of you participate to the different open office hours and forums that LL is having weekly?" More of the "It's the customer's fault!" nonsense. Snippy, we are not paid to serve Lidnen Lab. It's the other way around. Are you trying to present that people aren't using the forums and blogs? Or that we should adjust our busy RL schedules to attend limited LL "office hours"... which have a reputation for being a royal waste of time? That's not our responsibility Snippy. It is Linden Labs responsibilty to listen to what we are already saying... wherever we say it. They surely have no shortage of customer feedback. Snippy: "Yet, like I said, LL is doing some efforts right now to listen to us, so let's not blow this chance by just ranting and complaining on how they should have done this and that, but let's focus on the future. What can be done now? How can we help? Let's be constructive." No Snippy, they are CLAIMING to making effors now to listen to us. That's a far cry from actually doing so. Actually listening to customers means taking us seriously... not foisting DISPLAY.NAMES on the main grid no matter what your customers say, not foisting Viewer 2 on a grid when 88% of your customers are telling you it sux, not creating SL Marketplace when your merchants are kicking and screaming and telling you that Xstreet works and just needs some minor revisions (such as a better search engine and a couple of features added... not totally re-written). We've heard it all before Snippy, repeatedly. This "new" Linden Lab "we're going to start listening to you" IMO is typical corporate propaganda... stuff that we've heard before. Look at these blogs. They are not all negative and condemning and "un-helpful". There are many, many valid, useful suggestions here. Is Linden Lab really "listening" to these? I'll say to you, respectfully, the same thing I've said to others of your thinking in the past: Stop blaming the customers. Put the blame where it squarely lies: with the company that has for over 7 years failed to serve its customers. Or do you think the angry mob outside the gates is none of Linden Lab's fault? Why do you think the mob is angry in the first place? We're tired of Frankenstein creating monsters and loosing them on the community. TO ALL, regarding "add-ons" in general: I personally am not a fan of "add ons". First, where do those "add ons" come from and how reliable are they? Will they contain hacks like Emerald? Plus, they have to be downloaded and added, which adds complexity to the system. Instead of dealing with a basic, usable menu system, we wind up having to wade through dozens of pages of "add ons" just to get features that should be in there in the first place. IMO, add-ons is a 2-edged sword, with the cons far out-weighing the pros. Better option (in my opinion): Linden Lab listens to what the community in general needs, listens to special-case requests that may have wide appeal (such as a particular scripting issue of interest only to scripters) and they include that in the main viewer on a common-sense decision basis. "Will this be valuable, or not?" But add-ons... for me at least, no thank you. That's just another thing to go wrong. Let's get what we already have working first, before we go further mucking up the works with items that have predictable problems.

Jack: "Since the One True Interface has been found and anything we propose is received as inferior..." LOL. "One True Interface". Luv it. : D "we are forced to ask for the option to have things work for us, rather than having it work for us by default." So very true. "We are used to seeing you as part of the problem, not as part of the solution." Well said, Jack. That's hitting the nail on the head. In truth there is a semi-joke that is often heard on external grids: "Why do we like such-and-such grid? Becaue it's not Linden Lab." No matter what is wrong with the grid, how laggy, how bug-ridden, at least the users don't have to deal with LL attitude, total lack of support, and "monkey wrench" decision making. When the company itself becomes a major detriment to a product, it just might be time for that company to consider changing their attitude and decision-making methods. You are quite right, and "funny" as it is to say it, the biggest detriment to Second Life... is Linden Lab. That is a customer-perceived reality they need to take very seriously.

Jopsy: "Newbies want something simple, easy to learn, intuitively placed functions and, more than anything they don't want to spend all their time learning, they want to DO something... Power users want hot-keys so they can quickly access the functions they want to use without having to navigate down two sub-menus over and over... but you serve us better by being more inclusive than by saying "only 2% of SL using this feature... we're gonna just bury it in the debug settings and forget about it" =)" Hi Jopsy. Yeah, I know I said I was going to avoid these blogs, but that's difficult to do. We're addicts. LOL Anyhow, I agree. You make simply-stated and valid points. In the field of psychology, 2% is considered "significant". 2% is enough to make a savvy marketing company change their marketing plan. 2% of 10 million people is 200,000. Companies should not ignore minorities just becaue they're minorities. While it is true one cannot satisfy all the people all time, LL could strive to do their best... which is all anyone expects. As we both know (and I think as I mentioned before above, dunno, they all run together)... there are established computer standards for accoplishing these things. For example a few standards are: * The same menu system, but start people out in a "Beginner" mode, with advanced options only showing up if they intentionally press the "Startup Menus" button. That is a very clear and available button that when pressed, toggles between beginner and advanced menus. That way people can easily toggle back and forth between the two. * They can put a ? info button on EVERY SINGLE MENU CHOICE, without exception, so people can click that button if they don't know what that item does. * They could make every menu option "floatable", not only within its own menu but transferrable to other menus. Click, drag, drop, viola-- new location! Users might even be given the option of right-clicking and RENAMING a menu option to better suit them... and those changes retained in user settings (like with inventory) so they don't have to redo it every time they install a new viewer. Want one of the deep-hidden DEBUG options right out there on a main menu? No proble. Drag, drop, done. The only disadvantage to the last option is that it makes it more difficult to service users who have "hacked" their menus. But that's the decision they make... and the responsibility they individually bear if they decide to make such changes. The advantages: if I want my DRAW DISTANCE renamed to DISTANCE and in the VIEW menu instead of the WORLD menu, I can easily do so. It's difficult for people to complain when they have that kind of operational versatility. We might even have the ability to change the name of the ME menu to something less goofy. Now there is an idea. : D The thing about this is that these are very intuitive easily-recognizable concepts, and they are relatively easy to impliment. So why don't they just DO that? Now, the option to that, and one that makes equal sense, is to keep a set menu layout and re-design the menus in a common sense manner. But let's be honest here... and no insult intended (just plain fact)... Linden Lab historically is no good at all at common sense. I would bet a pizza that they couldn't design a user-beneficial menu system if their very lives depended on it. I honestly think they just don't know how. Viewer 2 is very blatant evidence of that. They're not out here in the trenches enough to know what we need and how we use the system... and like someone back there said, they shouldn't even imagine at this point that they know what their customers want. It's very obvious they don't. Since that is the case, and since they aren't all that good at asking customers what we want, and since they tend to ignore what we say when we tell them, and since when they do listen to someone at all, it's usually someone from the "FIC" who has their own agenda (and thus ignores the 98% of other people with different needs)... Linden Lab would do well to simply make their menu system as versatile, informative, and user-modifiable as possible... so we can get back down to business and stop messing with Linden Lab constantly throwing gravel in our wheelworks. Because Linden Lab, we want you to undertand our user experience and why people have been so very angry and outspoken on the blogs lately: * You sold us $4 million worth of "OpenSpace" sims, then pulled a bait and switch con game that forced us to shut down more than 5,000 of those. * You took a completely functional and operational XstreetSL and are throwing a new SL Marketplace at us... something (to my knowledge) no merchant has asked for, no merchant wanted, and most merchants very much dislike. * You're foisting DISPLAY.NAMES on the grid, something experienced users have over and over told you will have considerable negative consequences. (And yet... you're doing it anyway... just like always.) * You've created NEW BUGS such as entire sims lagging to a standstill whenever someone teleports (something that is seriously damaging popular areas), whenever someone changes clothes, whenever someone rezzes a mono item. You created those bugs, relatively recently. * After all these years, chat still doesn't work, group notices still aren't sent out, and despite recent announcements, textures still aren't loading properly. So let's see... a social network based on 3D graphics-- and textures, chat and notices don't work. I mean, geez... * You changed the forums and blogs to a format far less viable... against the outspoken wishes of your customers, and given us THIS. Seriously. ... and these things are just the tip of the iceberg. Linden Lab is consistently coming up with some new hairball scheme or concept that has to come out of some blue-sky marketing department... rather than just getting down to earth and making the platform work. This has been going on for years. You are under the delusion that to make SL more popular you need to become Facebook or Twitter-- instead of what is really needed: an affordable, stable, customer-friendly system that will attract new members simply because it actually works. So if the company wants to know why people are upset, and why they're posting angry hate posts on the blogs and forums, why people are leaving SL and why sims are actually closing down rather than sim sales increasing... these reasons would be why... as well as dozens of others. So again, we will say: Wake up to reality. The company is on the wrong path. Listen to what your customers are saying. If Linden Lab doesn't start listening, then when the offal strikes the rotary oscillator, we'll have no choice but to sit back and watch and say "We tried to tell you."

Ciaran: "His attitude is fine, it was a sign of honesty, he maybe should have kept it to himself but it's refreshing to see a reaction like that, it shows he's human and it also shows he's not bullshitting us, I'd rather someone was straight like that rather than than talking through the side of their mouth." I could not agree more Ciaran. Q is one of the few Lindens that gets out here and talks with us. In this case, he openly stated what his opinions are, and asked us if that's right or wrong. We keep asking Linden Lab to ask us for our opinions. On the very rare occasions they do-- as in this one-- we should answer. It doesn't mean I won't tell him exactly what my opinion is... it just means I'm not going to kick the horse for galloping. To Q: You have asked us what we feel about the interface issues and I already stated one opinion. But I'd like to briefly make that opinion more clear and precise, for the specific intended benefit of SL and LL overall: 1. Scrap viewer 2. Period. Seriously-- this is a crappy product. As one user stated, you're wasting money and man-hours trying to shine a turd. I'm no amateur Q. I've been on SL almost 6 years and before that I was a professional corporate consultant for some 25 years. So trust me in this: v2 sux. Scrap it as a failed project. It happens with any corporation. Smart managers have the sense to recognize a hairball project when they see it... and have the basic courage and strength to trashcan the thing. Scrap v2. Then... 2. Go back to 1.23, add all the really kewl features (such as invisible skins and tattoo layers and the other goodies)... and simply re-arrange menus so they are more intutitive (I covered that in my previous message). Add the really kewl features people like with Emerald and Imprudence and Hippo. The code is already written... all you have to do is double-check it and plug it in. Isn't that why you made this code open source in the first place? 3. Add ? buttons to every single menu option so that people can click those buttons and find out exactly what those options do. 4. Stop hiding the ADVANCE menu. Put it right out there where people can use it if they want to. Then listen to us power users as to what features we want in accessible buttons right on the main menu... such as draw distance and default-on camera controls (that everyone uses just about all the time). Ask the power users what is needed. We know through years of experience. We'll tell you. Or don't ask us... and continue flailing about like you are now, and ticking off customers, and losing 500 sims in 45 days. You folks' choice. 5. If you really want to do something special, use the age-tested method of having BASIC and ADVANCED menu setups. When someone joins SL, they would have a basic, simple to use menu system that helps them get around and function without being overwhelmed by extras. Then when they get confident with that, they can hit a very visible "Advanced" button, which will display the full expert menu system in all its glory. That is a simple thing to implement. I'm surprised it hasn't been done already. Q... these things would work. These things would solve the problem, completely. These things would make customers happy, and they would cost Linden Lab less than your current course of development. There is no down-side to this except for maybe a couple of managers having to swallow their pride and be humble enough to admit they were wrong with v2 (you've already done that Q. Others need to follow your example). For the most part, it's a WIN-WIN-WIN-WIN-WIN. So my opinion and advice, after being a power-user on SL for almost 6 years... just do these things. Linden Lab needs to wake up to reality and take the sensible, logical course. Stop wasting money and time on a failed product. Start over and do it right this time. But overall, my #1 piece of advice is this: Linden Lab needs to get its collective head out of its collective backside, and start paying attention to what customers are saying. You folks aren't on the right path. You've got it wrong. That is why recent blogs have been so extremely negative. That is why customers are rebelling. That is why they are jumping ship. That is why your sim count is dropping. Linden Lab: Listen to your customers. Otherwise... they'll stop being customers.

Oh I agree with you Pentasis. I don't expect them to go back to 1.23. I just wanted to make sure enough people had suggested that so that LL has no excuse when their ship sinks. They won't be able to say they weren't told. ; D I do disagree that there are aspects of 2.x that can't be implemented in 1.23 without huge amounts of time and money. It will take time and money, to be sure. But more than is being currently spent on 2.x? 2.x has far more wrong with it than just interface. Look at it this way: Linden Lab worked on 1.23 for some 7 years and still didn't get it right. It still contained problems with texture loading and other major issues. So we're to expect this company, that can't perform simple debugging, to get it right by starting all over from bare code? Like 2.x isn't going to have new, nasty problems all its own? (And it very obviously does). No, I'll still posit that updating 1.23 is still the wiser course. It may be going back to the drawing board... but at least that drawing board still has most of the equasion already written down. Will Linden Lab do that? Of course not. They've already shown themselves to be (please forgive my being blunt) stubborn blockheads. They have stated emphatically they will never scrap 2.x. They remind me very much of Captain Ahab chasing Moby Dick, determined to stay their course to the bitter end. I would agree with you that the best option overall would be to totally re-write and re-design the v2 UI... if the core of v2 was stable and bug-free. It isn't. It isn't even close to it (as would be expected from LL... that typicaly writes majorly buggy code, releases it to the main grid and then fails for years to debug it). If I thought LL had a chance in a bigagillion of writing solid code, I'd say, "Sure, redesign the v2 interface and go for it". But I think you and and everyone else here knows that is just not going to happen, for two reasons: 1. Linden Lab couldn't write stable code (or at least debug it properly) if a gun was pointed to their heads. (I'm sorry, I'm just calling out "The emperor has no clothes". LL coding snafus are historcially documented. I mean, after 7 years, they still can't get CHAT to work or deliver a simple group notice. This is simply a company that does not follow proper coding and debugging procedures-- and it shows.) 2. They're just not going to re-do the v2 interface, period. They're just as stubborn on that as they are reverting to 1.23 and starting over. What I recommended to Q above wasn't recommended because I feel LL actually stands a chance of doing that. It's pretty obvious from historical MO that Linden Lab is going to do flat whatever they want, no matter what users suggest (or even insist on). My post was nothing more than pointing out what would actually work... a plan and concept that would succeed IF they decided to implement such. Of course they will ignore that suggestion. Of course they're not going to implement those 5 points. They never do. Doesn't mean we aren't right. It just means LL is stubborn. ; D So they decide to ignore that post... as they have ignored hundreds of others. They decide to do just what they want to do... as they always have. They'll pay the price for their decisions... just as they did with the Homestead fiasco... and still are. They won't be able to say they weren't told, or that we didn't offer alternative courses of action. We did.

Alexander: "BUT as long as you still cannot manage to compete against your own old 1.x Viewer and far less against the TPVs, you should probably not assume to know anything about what your users want." That's putting it out there on the table Alexander. Fairly accurate statement that isn't insulting to Linden Lab (well it is, but...) but is rather accurate. It is pretty apparent LL has been out of touch with their users for a very long time. That reality is causing them repeated problems, and causing customers even more propblems. Just wanted to state I have to (sadly) agree with this comment. Sometime back someone suggested that the reason LL doesn't understand customers is because they're not out here in the trenches with us. I think that is a fairly accurate statement. They have no idea what we go through every day (with the possible exception of Torley), and they have no idea what it's like to use this system on a daily basis, or how system problems impact user experience (especially since viewer 2, which is just a horrendously bad concept and product that should have never made it off the drawing board-- and would not have if LL did understand what we need). You stated it well: they should not at all believe they have any clue what their users want and need. There is actually a reason for that: they usually don't ask us,and when they do, they usually don't listen. After all we're just customers. What do we know?

Q, I hear what you're saying in this blog, and I sympathize. I'd like to respond (although I doubt Linden Lab will even be reading this message; there's only so much time in the day after all). This blog is the first you've written that doesn't impress me. Why? Because as a business manager with decades of experience, I learned where to draw the line between legitimate concerns, and whining / making excuses. Please take no offense at that. We ALL make excuses and whine from time to time. The good manager knows when that is necessary as a steam-release... and when to tell people to stop making excuses and do their jobs. If I may, please consider: Yes, options are tricky. Menu balancing is tricky. And I will certainly agree that with the wide variety of people on SL, you are not going to make everyone happy. That all agreed, let's take a look at some realistic concepts: * Nothing, but nothing, is going to make this viewer "easy to use". That is a fallicy, the Holy Grail that people keep preaching about but just isn't going to happen. It can be easier to use, but the very nature of the beast means there is going to be some kind of learning curve that newbies are going to have to experience. That realized, the key is to make that learning curve as fast and pleasant as possible. You are not going to accomplish anything by crippling the viewer in any form, reducing its power, or reducing the size and complexity of the menus. There are other ways to accomplish newbie initiation. * That stated, there are ways to improve the viewer layout, make it easier to use and more intuitive. At this time, the current viewer isn't all that intutive. * You mentioned that many people don't even know what the options mean. Well, FIX THAT. Every single option on that viewer, without exception, should have a little question mark info circle that would thoroughly explain the related option, or at the very least send someone to a webpage explaining the more complex ones. Those instructions should be written in plain, easy-to-understand language. They should be informative, so that the user knows exactly what that option does. * Menus can certainly be arranged in more sensible order. You mention people don't all agree as to what that order should be. Technically, yes. Generally... poppycock. The functions that we need are pretty much recognized throughout the experienced user community. * As an example, Draw Distance should not be relegated to a hidden area of the graphics part of the preferences menu within the Edit menu. That is a simple, basic, easily-recognized statement that users have already established. Hippo places the draw distance tool right on the Camera Controls (which for the record should always be on the screen or at least default to ON, because people are always using that particular control). * No menu should be hidden, period. Just because something is "Advanced" doesn't mean we won't be using it on a regular basis. You can place seldom-used menus as sub-menus of the Advanced menu-- which should be visible along with the other menus at all times. * Removing industry standard menus such as FILE, EDIT, VIEW and TOOLS... menus that are used by every Windows and Mac and Linux user in the nation and have been for years, was an extremely poor decision. If those were to be changed at all, it would need to be with menu titles that are very SL-specific and very intuitive, such as COMPUTER, OPTIONS, CAMERA (but how would that be better than VIEW?) and well... TOOLS (it's hard to find a more intutive word than TOOLS folks). "ME" as a menu absolutely does not do the job, and reeks of reference to Windows ME... which has one of the worst software reputations in the history of comptuers. I mean, someone really needs to get a clue on that one. That's all I'll say at this time. No need to drag this out. Bottom line Q... while there are a wide variety of opinions out there, in general the general user has general needs, all of which can be rather easily met by an interface designer with a little bit of common sense. It's not rocket science (not even close)... it's layout and design of a user interface. The functions are already there... it's just a matter of shifting menus to make those functions more easily accessible, intuitive and usable. That should not be something that causes people to lose sleep, and it's certainly not something for public whining by LL staff. So please forgive my being blunt, no offense intended at all. I do sympathize. But rather than this being one of those "legitimate whine" situations... this may very well be one of the "buck up and get 'er done" situations. My recommendation: Linden Lab should start applying a little less marketing blue sky in their decisions, and a little more "what would I as a customer want?" end-user common sense. If you happen to read this, thanks for listening. If not, well, another 15 minutes of my life wasted. ;D