Suzanna Soyinka
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Everything posted by Suzanna Soyinka
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only took 10 days
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Heres to hoping that this is simply the beginning of a large set of forward steps. A little bird told me there is quite a gang forming up on certain systems and that Phillip wasn't just blowing hot air in his interviews. -
Just to tap back on this thread I've created the latest dev branch beta viewer code is showing some IMMENSE promise. It has quite obviously properly implemented object/object occlusion and texture render scaling by distance. The overall differential in performance is extremely massive, I've had reports of individuals on lower end hardware using GTX990's going from 7 to 50FPS so this is some very interesting headway.
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I'm kinda like this person. While I don't feel the Apple market share is a worthwhile reason to not further develop SL's capabilities for the PC userbase that is here, I don't see the point of being on any particular "team" when it comes to hardware or anything else. Nothing about doing further development of SL's capabilities would somehow suddenly make MAC platforms any less capable than they are right now. And further development for architectures that support both PC and MAC would be something I'd like to see, because I want this platform to engage ALL user bases, whether its PC or MAC or Android or whatever. The more people we have coming in the door is the more people that in that percentage start creating and adding ideas to this big wild world of ours and its more support for the rest of us that do it already too. I want SL to be better for all users, not just one specific hardware type. And there are many successful systems out there that are utilizing both MAC and PC very effectively cross platform in the modern age. I mean wheres my love for Linux? Why do we keep having to compile our own clients? But you don't see me slagging people over it :D.
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Daily snapshot updates, regional atlassing. We could do a lot with that and imposters and a lod system that actually works.
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Clothing and object attachments I can agree on but the large problem there is the large amount of content being sourced out of other markets not being optimized for SL use before being distributed. I mean on that yes I can say "bad content" can be an issue. And every simulator with more than 1 person in it is then now largely being taxed by effectively an exponential amount of "simulators" worth of poly/triangle count that are attached to users, but even then....should modern PC's really be having that much of a problem with that? The entire point of SL is that its a shared UGC environment, if the users are the biggest problem in the UGC environment then the environment hasn't been made correctly.
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As someone with a lot of experience in this area as world building is primarily what I do I just want to point out that "bad content" isn't the same as the simulator simply being unable to render said content to the bulk of users in simulator efficiently. Take the build I am specifically referring to. If its just me there, it still takes a lot of time to load, because it is a texture heavy/mesh heavy environment. You add in 60 users, which is the average and that takes even longer because then you have to fetch/get all the assets for them too. Theres no texture atlas, theres no GPU threading, theres nothing being done that makes any of that more efficient and the go to message of "well its just bad content" is irritating because half the mesh I've got I did myself and I know its not bad content its literally as low poly and efficient as I can make it to maximize detail to LI while keeping polyfaces low and as stated my texture base would be laughed at by any mainstream industry designer simply because the overall sizes of it are hilariously small. Every single image you upload to the server regardless of size is then recompressed to jpeg2000 at < 1024 resolution. I get very annoyed that users have been sold the "bad content" argument as a blanket excuse for SL's poor performance. In most cases SL performs poorly because SL performs poorly, not because I'm uploading 380,000 poly meshes, or attempting to somehow compress 8k textures into jpeg2000.
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To be fair Tilia is already taking a very large percentage of my cash as it is. Lets not add in any more middlemen, between Tilia and Paypal I might as well be paying taxes directly.
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Actually back in the day I used to hope that this next upgrade would be the bunny that fixes the basket. I've learned over the years that's never going to happen. But I still upgrade nonetheless. There are some things that do help SL immensely, but its CPU and RAM mostly, the GPU is rarely engaged above 30%.
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Just as a point, no one is saying OpenGL is the most optimal rendering architecture, but its what we have, and it has far more capabilities than SecondLife has even bothered to try to tap. Which is my point. The argument about whether Apple or Intel market approaches are better/superior is immaterial. What we have is whats here and even that isn't being used to it's potentials.
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And just used in 2020 for Doom Eternal so....also the MAC market share for personal computing is not that high as compared to their mobile share. OpenGL 4.6 is a pretty capable rendering tech for as old as it is. It just requires people working on that side of the system and no one has for a very long time.
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Hey not sure if you will get a response or not but you can go to the Geforce Control Panel and set specific options and overrides for your viewer of voice as shown in this shot.
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Yeah its kinda weird how people communicate on issues we all experience. That aside the whole viewer overhaul process I couldn't possibly do that myself. But I know for a fact that the Lab and Tilia make a ton of money just on me making money, so I'm pretty sure they can afford to find people who can do it. Which is kinda my point.
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Feature - Local Images for Thumbnails in Outfit Gallery
Suzanna Soyinka replied to Sugar Cookie's topic in Second Life Viewer
Hey there just FYI I submitted this last year in January (Jeez January already feels like last year) https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-231664 It was accepted as a potential additive feature. And the ideas are similar. -
Hey I get 150+ FPS in light rendering areas, and 70 to 80 in small builds that aren't terribly intense. I'm in a 3 sim situation that is all very high ended design though and yes thats where I drop to 5 to 10 FPS and its not even the assets in use because I've been very ***** about that and my entire texture base I've made for it runs at 512 or 1024 as a standard because I've been making these textures since 2006. I think my system is configured fine, its just that it doesn't give me any particular advantage when pushing SL to its maximums and since SL's maximum is literally 20 years behind industry standard, I feel that is embarassing. Thank you Molly I will have a look at that. I appreciate the information.
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I know what you mean I am not saying you are wrong, so I'm not entirely sure what the hostile stance is about. The problem is the viewers are all pinned to the same branch of code that the main viewer is on, you can't deviate out too far from what is already there without it basically being incompatible. Take Black Dragon for example, its effectively a higher end graphics solution, but does nothing for performance, Singularity/Alchemy have slightly stronger performance focuses, but graphically don't improve on anything. And NONE of them do anything to better utilize modern GPU capabilities because the main branch has no support for it.
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Well I have system because SL made it possible, much like a lot of creators here. That aside I can't fix things from a viewer side and I know this because I was peripherally involved with Singularity and you can find a lot of that branch in Alchemy now. And there are just things you can't fix from the viewer side in this regard. Which is why I feel its on the Lab to modernize. Its been almost 20 years, and what we have now is basically a bunch of feature upgrades that have been stapled on to a rendering architecture that is older than half the people using SL. It has to be optimized and modernized at some point, it can't keep running like this and expect to continue to attract new market.
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Sure I mean if Phillip will hire in some IDTech devs to handle the OpenGL overhaul.....I'm just fine with getting involved with the viewer.
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So I've been part of SL now since 2005. And since that time I've watched the evolution of the grid over the entire time. And early on, back in the early years, it made sense that SL was laggy and performed terribly because hey everyone's PC's were so much less powerful. But since then the SL Viewer standard has remained pinned to minimum requirements that are no where near realistic in scope. And what's more the rendering technology even for a streamed asset platform of this type, is entirely built around standards that use literally none of the advanced CPU architecture or GPU architecture available to us in 2022. SL looks better than ever, but remains unable to pair those looks with acceptable performance because the Lab appears absolutely married to the minspec approach. But even in that case, new advances in Intel GPU architecture means even stuff like UHD integrated and the new ARC series of integrated chips, will have none of their advanced features used. With the low poly nature of collada mesh, and the low resolution assets SL is married to (2048x2048 is not a an HD resolution), the fact that my PC in 2022 gets the same 5 - 10 FPS on ultra with 256 draw distance in a sim that isn't EMPTY is literally embarrassing and really needs to be addressed if this platform ever wants to engage the modern user base that is out there, but avoids SL because it runs terribly and looks like a ten year old game even at its best. And while I understand not everyone in the world has a high end PC, there's no reason not to have support for the large percentage of power users in SL that do. In fact there is no reason why the minspec/integrated graphics design of SL is somehow exclusive to SL actually starting to use modern CPU and GPU capabilities. I'd like to see this platform last me another 15 years, but I'm starting to think its a waste of money to even upgrade my hardware any more other than for the tax write offs.
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Oh I'm aware my point on this that my assets are optimized, I'm not building with freebie textures from a box, or uploading unoptimized meshes that I haven't gone through and simplified to SL polycount standards. I've been designing world spaces in SL since 2006, very successful ones and I am insanely OCD about keeping design standards within SL's best parameters while trying to maximize its overall visuals at the same time. And largely, in most cases, in my own sims I get a pretty consistent frame rate in all areas of my sim except when these latency spikes occur. Uhhh I was materially involved in the development of Singularity for a good stretch of time with my development partner Melanie Milland, who ran the Avination opensim grid for around 6 years, I wouldn't call myself a TPV developer but I am familiar with TPVs and how they work. And you seem to continue to ignore the statements I make for what you appear to think you know....which appears erroneous in comparison to my long term observations, and yes there is a 2 minute time out but my point is if I disable the network interface, the latency cannot affect the frame rate and instead of just arguing with you about it the next time I see this latency spike I will do exactly that and I guarantee you my frame rate will then be unaffected at that point because the network will no longer be sending data. You're not being helpful and just appear to be trolling so I'm going to ask you to go ahead and just stop replying entirely, I'm trying to get actual feedback from others who may be experiencing the same things so I can collect information for a JIRA ticket here.
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Disabling my network interface would disconnect me from SL and given that the frame rate issues seem to be present when the network appears to be under the most stress obviously I would probably not have any issues because I'd be disconnected from SL entirely. I mean you might as well tell me to try to fix it with Alt-F4 or Ctrl+Q+Q at this point because it just seems like you are trolling. Why would I just have random, non consistently triggerable frame rate issues, just in SL, when I run Cyberpunk 2077 at a consistent 60 to 90 FPS and never lag or stutter there if the network component wasn't an issue? What's more I can run SecondLife in the background while playing Cyberpunk 2077 and Cyberpunk 2077 doesn't lose enough frames for me to notice while I do. My conclusions are based on empirical observable evidence. In literally any sim I go to in SL, most especially since around January of 2022, there can be occasional sudden high latency issues, which then affect the frame rate and the entire viewer experience and I had confirmation from Concierge support that network latency CAN affect frame draw rates because literally the entire simulator experience is streamed to your client in real time, so I don't understand your conclusions because your conclusions appear to be again, pointing at my hardware while ignoring all the data about said hardware.
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Your statement makes no sense because if I was having frame rate issues they'd be consistent. I only have frame rate issues when my ping also seems to be anywhere from 290 to 600MS and it happens in random cycles and are not triggered by literally anything I am doing in SecondLife at the time. I know what frame rate issues are but you can't tell me you've looked at my hardware and you're telling me that 2.1 FPS RANDOMLY for no reason when I'm not even moving or manipulating my camera, that not only seems to affect my frame rate but also lags my inventory access/texture rez times and everything else is somehow affected as well including, even, at times, my text input. And as stated it only seems to happen in the SecondLife client, when its happening I can easily tab over to my Blender or Photoshop tabs, my Chrome tab, whatever, theres no delay on any of those windows there's no lag in any of those apps while SL is performing in this manner. So I know it is not my hardware. This is also entirely possible as I've been running http services out of SL to a server of my own and I've seen this but my server is not on a class A network service provider. My ISP is a class A network provider, the CDN services SL uses are a class A network provider and my overall latency to the Amazon CDN's is usually 4 times lower, in direct test, than my latency in SL is. I might suspect a routing issue if I was somewhere in like Kalamazoo or whatever, connected via a wireless provider or sat uplink, but this is direct glass fiber via a class A national cable service and my routing literally anywhere else seems fine.
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This is my normal stats in my building homestead, I have two islands the main one I get around 20 to 60 FPS depending on where I'm at because its a very intense build. The homestead there I am at about 2000m Z axis, but I am in a fully furnished skybox of mine that isn't made of prim plywood by any means and I run SL on ultra with only Ambient Occulusion and Antialiasing off because I override those settings in my Geforce settings for my viewer because my GPU does it better than SL does it and less expensively. Also keep in mind I can see that latency spike at this homestead too, I have seen it, and of course then my frame rate dives down into the sub 10 range.
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