Pixels Sideways

August 25

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

So, you don't see yourself in that situation?

After much reflection, no.

August 25

So I found his link on a PBR reddit discussion (below) that is a pretty comprehensive guide to PBR, lighting and probes.

It's not like you can rez a sofa and use your own preferred windlight like ALM, Between the environment adjustments and rezzing probes for different objects and trying to find a balance between PBR and non PBR objects, it seems like a lot of unnecessary extra work to see the textural subtleties or reflections of PBR objects.

Why wasn't PBR standardized in to make it less complicated and more user friendly? One button general setting and more standard windlights capability and less probing? PBR feels more like a creator benefit than an average user benefit.

Sure, PBR it looks nice but I think most folks just want to rez their stuff without having to futz with all this extra work involved. I can't imagine being new to SL and this is what you are faced with.

ALM may lack he nuances of PBR but it's significantly easier to use. An on/off radio button and a variety of EEP/windlights.

Especially for those who can't use PBR for whatever reasons. While ALM does add extra hot sauce to my lapdoggy, I cannot do shadows - that's like the last hot sauce on the Hot Ones - my gpu does not like it.

Anyways, this how to PBR probes, etc., guide looks very helpful for people moving into using PBR and it's easy to follow so will share. Kudos & thanks to the author, Kristi Aurelia.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/18ut5mR_S9sAYDwWvFHNpRqrJ31y2hpqVSZHd8sbeua4/edit#heading=h.2jbb6oy7k2oq

August 25

On 8/22/2024 at 8:36 AM, Love Zhaoying said:

I just realized a way to "speed up" adoption of PBR.

Women avatars just need to say, "I won't Slex with you if you're not wearing a PBR thingy".

I can't imagine anyone wants their face reflected on that thingy, 😁

August 22

7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

This is quotable!!! 🙂

It's technical terminology for challenged builders like myself. 😁

August 22

On 7/28/2024 at 4:47 AM, Qie Niangao said:

Are you sure you understand how much work you're asking creators to do for you here?

It's not impossible by any means, but it's definitely extra steps, which means creators will only be able to produce less content. For those trying to pay bills with their output, that's an extra tax.

One might think it's no big deal, then, for those of us who never charge for our work, but at least in my case that's exactly backwards: I only do it for the fun of seeing the result and sharing it with those who stumble upon it. I recently made a thing that will briefly be of use to those with or without PBR (and the separate glTF emissivity map really does make a difference), so I took the extra time to do both, but I won't be doing that very often.

It wasn't an ask.

It was an observation and as was noted in a reply after, the market will determine what people will buy. Which is why I don't buy PBR only things. There is still an overwhelming amount of content that is not PBR only and has both PBR and legacy textures and just legacy textures/materials..

PBR only will become a problem when sim experiences become substantially PBR and a lot of foks won't be able to enjoy those experiences.

August 22

On 7/28/2024 at 6:48 AM, Flea Yatsenko said:

Just use the base color map as the fallback. Anyone who can't run PBR wasn't running ALM and they weren't looking at a very pretty SL to begin with. They aren't in it for the graphics, they're there because of SL. And some colors and metals being totally wrong because you're using a base color is a million times better for people who can't run PBR than white and grey untextured mesh. I'm really surprised at creators who aren't supporting legacy textures. Seems like a way to earn a lot of 1 star reviews and tank your products.

I use ALM. On & off, though, depending on the place / environment. . And I know others who do as well but are not using PBR viewers yet.

I also create stuff with materials so need to use it for that.

I'm not all fancy pants bing ping pong baked channels etc. I just genera simple texture maps.

Hopefully there will continue to be builds and content everyone can experience.

August 22

On 7/28/2024 at 12:33 PM, Rowan Amore said:

I don't buy items made only for Maitreya or Legacy. They'd get my money if they rigged for Reborn but they don't even though, "It's just a little extra work". Same premise for PBR items, I suppose. Don't buy what you can't use.

That's a totally different issue.

If, for example, a place in SL uses a mix of PBR only and PRB with backup materials or materials only, if people are unable to use a PBR viewer for whatever reason, theyu will not see textures on the PBR only objects. So people who can't use PBR viewers can't fully experience the build.. .

So it goes beyond purchasing objects.

As was noted, the market will determine how people move forward with purchases but there is nothing they can do about PBR only sim builds if they can't use a PBR viewer as they won;t be able to see anything. And for a lot of those folks, upgrading a computer that runs viewers with PBR smoothly and low / no lag is not an option.

July 28

11 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Then don't buy it!

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, and I say that without animosity to either you or to the creators in question (see my post right above), but every creator, and every consumer, is going to have to make decisions based on their perception of the repercussions.

For the moment, I am not buying PBR-mapped goods that don't have backup legacy texturing, because I know that a great many of my friends, visitors to my parcel, etc., aren't yet using a PBR viewer. That will change, likely within a year or less, and my buying habits will change accordingly.

Similarly, creators who are not providing backup textures for new goods will notice a change in the buying habits of their customers based on that decision (assuming that they've made it clear to customers that the item can only be seen properly in a PBR viewer). Or they won't see any change. Either way, the decisions they make will be guided by consequences.

Why would I buy something I can't see?

Just pointing out that as was noted earlier in the topic by Quartz Mole, objects that have both materials & PBR can be viewed by both PBR and non PBR viewers so pretty much everyone in SL can see them.

Other people on this topic have brought this issue up as well.

July 28

So back aways on this discussion, Quartz Mole said that as long as creators use materials first then PBR effects everyone would be able to see textures rendered on PBR and non PBR viewers so not to worry. All would be fine..

Apparently that advice seems to have been discarded as I am seeing more content being created with PBR only rendering it useless to people who don't use or can't use PBR viewers.

As I've already seen on this discussion, some people are not able to upgrade their computers so if PBR only content proliferates, their SL experience will be greatly diminished and if viewers get deprecated and new versions with PBR are mandatory, it may shut out people who have long supported SL.

There should always be legacy viewers that can accommodate less robust older computers. And creators might consider this when making content.

I hope Linden Lab is paying attention to this.

June 16

okies i was putting it in the wrong place as in deleting the other part. Then trying o add it back.

All good.

Works great.

thank you much, Frionil. xoxo

June 16

TY Frionil

I pasted that in but this piece below was excluded from my original script and your original music player script - and when I played the music it stopped after the first sound file.

So where does this go assuming I need this timer to play the files sequentially.?

I tied adding this but keep geting error messages when trying to save the script.

timer() {
        string s = llList2String(sounds, snd*2);
        float d = llList2Float(sounds, snd*2+1);
        llSetTimerEvent(d);
        if(s) {
            llPlaySound(s, 1);
            snd = (++snd)%llGetListLength(sounds);
            s = llList2String(sounds, snd*2);
            if(s)
                llPreloadSound(s);

June 16

derp

thank you. Quistess. .

that fixed the particles but it's still starting the music player back up or sumpin is after unsit.

Any idea why that is?

June 16

Hiya Folks!

I'm running into some issues with these scripts. The main controller script sits and animates an avatar then tells a music box script to play a song, and particle scrips to spawn their particles.

>> On my wish list: I'd also like to add additional scripted objects like the particles one that would rez an object(s) and a fader that would make a transparent object sowly appear then vanish, all tied to certain points in the song which I'm been using sleeps to do the timings of. All scrips that work together are controlled by a unique channel and say word.

I put sleeps in the particle gen scrips so they sync with the music,

I have a sleep in the main controller that is the length of the music so the avaar continues the animation until the song ends then is unsit.

There is also a stop command for the particles to stop.

However, the particle won't stop and for some reason when the script says stop, the music starts back up again.

I have a unique channel and unique say word to start the whole shebang and that channel and word is in each receiving script for the nusic player and particles

I also noticed when I had two of these set up in the same area, when an avatar sat, it started their music player and started the adjacent ones even tho I changed the channel numbers and say word differently on each of those.

I thought having specific channels and words prevented this issue?

Here are the scripts:

CONTROLLER SCRIPT:

>> As a side note, would love to be able to add code that would play a second or third or more animations that starts at different time points in the song.

integer channel = -76543;

default
{
    state_entry() {
        llSitTarget(<-0.57042, -0.37938, 2.70104>, <-0.05166, -0.00952, -0.99220, 0.11308>);

    }

    changed(integer change) {
        if (llAvatarOnSitTarget() != NULL_KEY)
        {
                llSay(0, "READY TO FIRE DANCE? LET'S GO!");
                llSleep(01);
                llSay(channel,"FIREDANCE");


            llRequestPermissions(llAvatarOnSitTarget(), PERMISSION_TRIGGER_ANIMATION);
        }
    }

    run_time_permissions(integer perm) {
        string anim = llGetInventoryName(INVENTORY_ANIMATION, 0);
        if (anim != "") {
            llStopAnimation("sit");
            llSleep(03);
            llStartAnimation(anim);

llSleep(160); //change this to the length of the song

    llSay(0, "stop");

    llUnSit(llAvatarOnSitTarget()); // unsit him
        }
    }
}

MUSIC PLAYER SCRIPT:

The music box script - this is Frioni's neat little music player script from the forums here. With my listen mods.

//THIS IS THE LISTEN AUTO PLAY ON SIT VERSION

list sounds = [ // pairs of sound name/UUID + length, given length is shorter than actual sample length
"flamedance-9.9s--01", 9.9,
"flamedance-9.9s--02", 9.9,
"flamedance-9.9s--03", 9.9,

//"soundN", 9.9,
"", 0 // list terminator that stops looping, would start over otherwise
];

integer snd;

default
{
    state_entry()
    {
        llListen( -76543, "", NULL_KEY, "" );
    }

listen( integer channel, string name, key id, string message )
{
if ( message == "FIREDANCE" )

{
        llStopSound();
        llSetSoundQueueing(TRUE);
    }

{
        llSetSoundRadius(3);

        snd = 0;
        string s = llList2String(sounds, snd*2);
        float d = llList2Float(sounds, snd*2+1);
        llPlaySound(s, 1);
        llSetTimerEvent(d);
        snd = (++snd)%llGetListLength(sounds);
        s = llList2String(sounds, snd*2);
        if(s)
            llPreloadSound(s);
    }

}
timer() {
        string s = llList2String(sounds, snd*2);
        float d = llList2Float(sounds, snd*2+1);
        llSetTimerEvent(d);
        if(s) {
            llPlaySound(s, 1);
            snd = (++snd)%llGetListLength(sounds);
            s = llList2String(sounds, snd*2);
            if(s)
                llPreloadSound(s);
        } else {
            llOwnerSay("You totes brought the heat!");
        }
    }
}

THE PARTICLE SCRIPT

default
{
    state_entry()
    {
        llListen( -76543, "", NULL_KEY, "" );

    }

listen( integer channel, string name, key id, string message )
{
    if ( message == "FIREDANCE" )
    {//SL19B WATER-P1
        {         llSleep(95);   //added sleep to start particle at certain points in song
        llParticleSystem([
PSYS_SRC_PATTERN,PSYS_SRC_PATTERN_ANGLE_CONE,
PSYS_SRC_MAX_AGE,0.,
PSYS_SRC_BURST_RATE,0.002519,
PSYS_SRC_BURST_PART_COUNT,41,
PSYS_SRC_BURST_RADIUS,2.210227,
PSYS_SRC_BURST_SPEED_MIN,3.945094,
PSYS_SRC_BURST_SPEED_MAX,4.131247,
PSYS_SRC_ACCEL,<0., 0., 0.00257>,
PSYS_SRC_ANGLE_BEGIN,0.768418,
PSYS_SRC_ANGLE_END,2.654429,
PSYS_SRC_OMEGA,<0., 0., 0.>,
PSYS_SRC_TEXTURE,(key)"ce59afae-e3e9-9cb0-15c2-45687d718203",
PSYS_SRC_TARGET_KEY,(key)"",
PSYS_PART_MAX_AGE,0.50683,
PSYS_PART_START_COLOR,<0.66585, 0.32731, 0.07477>,
PSYS_PART_END_COLOR,<0.97418, 0.9927, 0.99857>,
PSYS_PART_START_ALPHA,1.,
PSYS_PART_END_ALPHA,0.14454,
PSYS_PART_START_SCALE,<0.37682, 0.42065, 0.>,
PSYS_PART_END_SCALE,<3.53706, 3.14143, 0.>,
PSYS_PART_FLAGS,PSYS_PART_BOUNCE_MASK | PSYS_PART_EMISSIVE_MASK | 0 | PSYS_PART_INTERP_COLOR_MASK | PSYS_PART_INTERP_SCALE_MASK | 0 | PSYS_PART_FOLLOW_VELOCITY_MASK | 0 | 0 ]);}

    }
    else if ( message == "stop" )
    {
        {llParticleSystem([]);} //turns off particles   // STOP not stopping particle and starts up music player - why?

}
}
}

THANK YOU FOR ANY HELP YOU CAN PROVIDE

xoxo

pixels

April 30

Let's hopeThunes drives SL financial transactions better than Toonces drive a car.

April 16

Frionil:

TY!!!!!!

It was th missing PI and took off the neg negative.

Added PI and it works great 🙂

llSetTextureAnim(ANIM_ON | ROTATE | SMOOTH | LOOP, 5,0,0,0.0, TWO_PI, 0.02);

Thank you all for your help

xoxo

pixels

April 15

Hiya:

Using this:

llSetTextureAnim(ANIM_ON | ROTATE | SMOOTH | LOOP, 5,0,0,0.0, -1.0,-0.02);

and the texture still does that visual jerk back whiplash that totes blows the smooth seamless rotation continuity.

Has this been fixed or there is a work around to stop the abrupt jerk reset?

Thankies

pixels

March 31

I still can't log into this new Jira replacement feature.

Still caught in a llogin loop that bounces me back in forth to same pages o login to but when I login it goesback to previous page and when I click the link to add a to the Jira thing, I am asked to login again which I already have done.

January 18

TY for replies.

Logged out and tried to log back in to the feature request and still caught in a loop.

I'm using the Firefox browser - I'll try Safari and see if have same issue.

January 18

So I wanted to reply to a feature request on the feedback portal and it said to log in and I did and it took me back to this page:

And that has a link to the official feedback potal which takes me back to here:

https://feedback.secondlife.com/

and wants me to login again and takes me back to bug report page and that link I noted

I'm caught in a loop that won't let me log into the feedback portal. I'm logged in as you can see here.

What's up with that?

I wanted to add Jira nfo to a similar/same feature request which I put on the Jira a couple years back,

Weird,

January 18

I had a similar issue this month - was using older 10.11 Catalina on a 2014 MACBOOK AIR and when FS had mandatory update, could not log into FS or any viewer update I installed on my laptop.

I had to update to Catalina 10.15.7. FS works for now.

I should update to the next level 11.0000 I think Big Sur. That is as high as my 2014 MacBook Air will go.

Here are some helpful links on macworld

This one has list of macs and what OS they can run

https://www.macworld.com/article/673697/what-version-of-macos-can-my-mac-run.html

This is the list of all the mac os versions

https://www.macworld.com/article/672681/list-of-all-macos-versions-including-the-latest-macos.html

Hope that helps.

December 30, 2023

19 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This is what it looks like. This prim has both PBR and legacy maps, and the pic was taken in the current (non-PBR) iteration of FS, so what you're seeing is the Blinn-Phong materials.

Short answer: it looks just fine.

(Gosh, I'm definitely getting my money's worth out of this corset dress!)

Thanks, Scylla.

So no change then. Hope all creators get this anf texture likewise.

December 30, 2023

1 hour ago, Charlotte Bartlett said:

If this helps (and I just uploaded this material so it's rough and not prime time so just for the purpose of a rough demonstration. I quickly uploaded both legacy and PBR type materials for this (legacy would need some work)).

Same basic environment used in each for ease and same model. The 1 and 2 have additional HDRI and Reflection Probe Ambiance set in the EEP in the LL Viewer.

1. PBR Materials on LL PBR Viewer - > https://gyazo.com/9cef5a1681c72d2f8fad816d97ace8f2

2. Legacy Material on LL PBR Viewer - > https://gyazo.com/15032b5eaf0e96d126f1853fe41e36e3

3. Legacy Material on Firestorm Legacy Viewer - > https://gyazo.com/02cd218ca354abff0e43ee9ab3031f28

Legacy has a base, normal and specular included - on this one using these settings I would redo legacy textures if moving this item to PBR too.

Curious - what does the PBR material layer over the Legacy materials look like on a Firestorm Legacy viewer?

I think that is the key concern. From what I read, there is no change for Legacy viewers - it looks like Legacy Materials with no white-out ot texture degradation.

And to get the full effects of PBR on PBR viewer, you need to set EEP to super dark settings?

I often use neutral or anon optimal WL setting bc it smoothes out skin tones but that bright wash of light would kill PBR effects, yes?

December 30, 2023

19 hours ago, Charlotte Bartlett said:

Hi just so nobody is confused!

For our PBR items we hav,e per our many posts here and copious testing and involvement in multiple JIRAs, been very invested in getting a good experience for our customers.

For avoidance of doubt our PBR items work for legacy viewers and will continue to do so (so no white textures!) We include a legacy version that does not have the reflection probes attached (the core difference) as those would be a PITA on a legacy viewer but they are fully textured so anybody visiting your house too will see a textured version no matter what viewer you use (or what version you rezzed PBR or legacy).

We put a sign since last week with our first PBR release (and our second one came out today) noting that legacy viewers will see legacy textures (not plain white or plywood materials) - > NOT that they would see a plain white texture! https://gyazo.com/0651af329ce5aadf596aa5c8751afea2

Sorry to quote - just wanted to ensure nobody is giving misinformation about our products here on the forum. We take it very seriously as we have been working really hard during PBR testing to ensure our customers have a great experience, no matter what viewer they use.

Thank you, Charlotte.

I appreciate the thought and work you've put into this.

I am a huge fan of your work so I will rez the PBR house to see how it looks with my non PBR Firestorm viewer.

It seems throughout this topic a lot of folks don't know they can layer both materials and PBR so objects are fully textured and visible to all viewers.

As I noted to Quartz, LL should have a GIANT DO THIS > How To Use Both BP & PBR on their PBR page / wiki to make this clear to all creators so texture visibility should never be an issue to any viewer.

December 29, 2023

4 hours ago, Quartz Mole said:

Sorry, but I don't understand. You can apply both in the same viewer if you use the Official Viewer. As Scylla notes above, you just have to apply the Blinn-Phong textures first. Presumably when Firestorm release their PBR viewer, you'll be able to do the same in that viewer, too. Or have I misunderstood something?

There are conflicting posts so maybe this needs to be explained in a simple How To.Texture PBR Objects And Make Them Visible To Non PBR Viewers. As in Step one - do this first... and so on so everyone knows they can create content in the PBR viewer that is visible to PBR and non PBR viewers.

It sounds like you add BP materials to the base textured object first then add the PBR next and that solves the viewer issue for creating and makes he textures visible via any viewer, yes? Or no?

But if you can do both types of texturing effects in the PBR viewer, why doesn't the graphics settings have the same setup as the previous non PBR version with an added choice to turn PBR on or off and turn ALM on/off, or neither, etc.? That would make sense. Then you could turn off PBR and check the BP materials visibility after adding PBR without having to switch viewers.

And for non creators, it's also an option if PBR becomes an issue for whatever reason.

As I noted in my first reply, there are times I need to dial down my graphics settings to move better/faster and so on. So if PBR is more complex and demands more from graphics cards/processing than ALM settings, that will also be an issue as you can'y go a step back to ALM.

Also someone wondered if PBR will increase LI cost like when you apply materials to a prim. Will it add to that?

December 29, 2023

6 hours ago, Quartz Mole said:

Yes. Blinn-Phong and PBR are completely separate. If you're using a PBR viewer you see the PBR layers. If you're not, you see the Blinn-Phong ones if the creator has applied any.

When we were making Winter Wonderland, because we weren't sure when Firestorm would have PRB ready, we had to texture everything twice, once with PBR materials and once with Blinn-Phong ones, to be sure everyone would see much the same thing.

I think the moral of this story, though, is that content creators should always check what their creations look like in (at least) both Firestorm and the Official Viewer at several different viewer settings, which I have to say I knew to do well before I started to work for LDPW.

So why is the ability to do both not included in the same viewer to ensure that all bases are covered?

As someone noted above, they have to open up a separate viewer to do the Bing Bang Ping Pong aka ALM to apply materials then open up a PBR viewer to apply PBR on top.

This seems counter productive. Having the ability to do both in the same viewer would make it a lot easier for content creators to apply both which would then be visible to all viewers / residents. And being able to select what you want to see - PBR or ALM or neither would make sense as well.

And TY for all the fun stuff you all create. Just need to nibble the ankles of LL programmers to fix this and make it multi-user friendly from nutin applied old school to Bing Bang Ping Pong/ALM materials to Peanut Butter & Jelly/PBR all in the same viewer.

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