Tari Landar

I am beginning to wonder what people have against vendors, lol. All these people trying to come up with workarounds and ways to come as close to crossing the "not allowed" line as possible, some doing it actually. Why is there so much focus on these ideas, which will be priced at the gacha prices (some have suggested this is below the items' value, which may be true) rather than encouraging people to sell their wares at whatever they believe they are worth in normal vendors? I get that there's some work to be done, at least for some people quite a bit of work possibly, to sell items from regular vendors, but aren't people putting an awful lot of work into these new roller/conveyor/whatever the hell vendors now? Wouldn't that time be better spent on transitioning to a system that will absolutely not go away anytime soon, one that is proven, one that works, one that has been here since day one? If people want to change their permissions, or even offer a couple permissions combinations, they can. They won't be limited by "what's expected of gacha sellers", which is pretty awesome, really. If people want to create fancy vendors, they could do that too, as long as they aren't these weird gacha-like things. But what's so wrong about simply directly selling products to people? People are still going to buy, they still want your stuff, you're still going to make a profit. Maybe some people will make a little less, at first or even overall, but at least they know they'll be doing so within the TOS, with methods that can't also possibly disappear just as quickly when they're found to skirt the line too close, or too far. Regular selling works just fine, always has, always will. Odd musings that run through my head while reading. So much energy spent on "how close can we get to gacha without calling it gacha, while still working like gacha, so we can trick people into thinking it's like gacha" ideas that make me question just how shady some people really are with their sales tactics (yes I know, happens in rl too, this isn't sl exclusive, money is money, business is business). Not everyone is going to make a mint selling in sl. But these posts make it seem like just using normal vendors and selling methods is going to guarantee no one makes a dime or somehow the merchants lose out. That's just not true, some of the biggest, and even smallest, sellers in sl don't use gachas, or at least don't rely on them for the majority of their income. They seem to manage just dandy.

There used to be breedable shoes....

Exactly why they need to re-word that to say something more along the lines of "known/visible or base traits must be disclosed at the time of purchase", although I'm certain they can word it much, much better, lol. Otherwise it's just going to be another point of contention and another 50 pages of personal interpretations. I'm sure they'll fix it though, they'll get enough backlash from people that they'll have to, lol.

Yes, it does pertain to randomly generated starter packs, it's the randomness that makes it apply. They cannot be random, the base traits that all of this particular breedable (whatever it is, cat, dog, mushroom, shoe..whatever) need to be known at the time of purchase. The randomness has to go, it's the problem in this particular case (the same with random breedable vendors). That means breedable creators will indeed need to alter how they sell starter breedables, they cannot be random. But I'm certain they're all well aware of that by now, and working on it.

I could be wrong, and I'm certainly I will be corrected if I am that what LL is saying with this new FAQ regarding breedables is that KNOWN and present traits at the time of purchase need to be clear to the buyer, but unknown (usually just called hidden or breedable) traits do not need to be disclosed. They merely used coat color as one simplistic example. Let's say you have a cat and it's base traits (the ones you know it comes with, because it tells you this, or you can see it, etc..) are coat, ears, eyes, tail, gender and size. You must disclose that this cat has a blue coat, floppy ears, blue eyes, curly tail, a boy and is size large (insert whatever other examples you'd like there, lol those were just odd choices of mine). You do not have to disclose that this cat's lineage might pass on purple eyes, tipped ears, a floofy tail, a midget size or a brown coat, because it's secondary, and not actually a known factor at the time of purchase (it may not actually pass those on or it may take 5 more generations to find them, etc... breeding is an art form in sl sometimes, lol) LL should probably ask people more versed in breedables for advice on how to best word that one, they're going to have to be more precise than "as long as they know its color", even if they meant any obvious or known traits. They need to be more clear for precisely this reason, people will assume they only mean color/coat, since that's the example they used, and not every other known trait. It's the combination of obvious/known traits that needs to be disclosed.

No one said there shouldn't be complaints. Some of them are absolutely ridiculous, and most are probably more emotionally driven than well thought out, in my opinion, but people are free to complain. It still doesn't change the fact that people have always found a way to market and sell their wares in sl without gacha sales. Just because it's a popular marketing tool doesn't mean it's the only one, or even the most profitable. That's sort of the point of my posts....the end of gacha isn't the end of creation, selling, marketing, having fun, reselling, etc... in sl. People's livelihoods are not being as affected as some might want to make it seem, it just might seem so at first. All the negative posts are certainly not going to help people see otherwise, even if it feels good to vent and complain sometimes.

No, because there is still the random aspect that makes it fall under gambling, it's not the transfer perms that are a problem there.

How did people market before they started selling through gacha machines? Those methods didn't up and vanish, many merchants have been using them all along without the use of gacha machines at all.

Are some people truly unaware that creators and merchants alike are perfectly able to sell their wares a myriad of other ways? They don't need to load up gacha machines to sell stuff. Yes, some chose to do so, but now that choice is no longer going to be allowed. So now merchants need to use other methods of selling. No one is banning the creations themselves, or the content, or residents. People can still sell transfer items too, that's always been allowed and certainly not going to stop being allowed anytime soon. Merchants can sell their items in vendors, of all different sorts. They can list their items on the MP if they want. They can simply set them out for sale and let people buy them that way. There are all kinds of ways people can continue to sell their stuff. That SOME merchants are trying to claim that this change is going to force them to not sell their content anymore is not really accurate. IF those merchants choose not to continue selling their wares, that is a choice they are making. This change does not force them to make it. It's really not the end of the world. Countless merchants in sl sell stuff without ever having to use a gacha machine, they always have, they always will. Nothing is stopping this. Nothing is stopping your favorite creators from putting those same items they have in a gacha into a different, normal, vendor and selling items that way. Will they possibly change some things like the price and maybe permissions? Yes, some might do that, not everyone is going to, some are choosing to price current gachas at the pull price because it's just easier to do that and they will still make money off those purchases. Some are going to change the permissions of their items, while others are not. People are acting as if the day this happens every single item that was in a gacha machine is going to be ripped off the grid never to be seen from again. That's really not the case, and from people I've been chatting with about it, merchants are starting to realize they have more options than their initial emotionally driven responses to this change might've suggested. It's not the end of the world to have merchants go back to selling things the same way we did for many years before gacha was a big thing here. I wanted to be snarky with this response, but instead chose another path. I get the emotionally charged responses, because when it seems like something you enjoy is going away, it sucks. I get it, and I think everyone else gets it too, even if they're all gung ho for the change and hate gachas or whatever else. I get that people are not happy, don't like it, don't want to do it. But, it is what it is, we can argue til the cows come home about whether or not LL should do this, or needs to do it right now, it really won't matter what any of us say. It's done, it's happening, there's nothing going to change that. What we should do is encourage merchants and creators to use methods that we know work, we know are okay and fall well within all TOS and laws both present and potential. We should encourage them by helping them realize people still want their stuff, will still buy their stuff, and still want to see them and their stuff around. Instead of crying woe is me every few minutes, shaking fists at the nonexistent sky in sl and screaming into the void about what a travesty it is and exaggerating on the possible devastation and complete destruction of sl...focus on where people can go from here. All of that negative stuff is more likely to make some merchants who aren't quite sure how to proceed from here feel even more hopeless, you're (general you) not helping them any. That is especially true for some merchants whose entire existence in sl revolves around gacha selling. Why would anyone want to do that? Help them see there's an upside and things can stay right on track with a bit of work, maybe a little reconfiguring for some people, but for most not nearly too much. What's the point in focusing on everything negative, what good is it going to accomplish?

How do you think the rest of us who do not use random vendors, have sold them for many years? We use vendors, mostly multi-item vendors, or sell them individually in some cases. LL isn't likely to address you directly, so why not listen to the people that also sell what you sell, to see how it can be done a different way than you currently use? There are not millions of colors, you certainly don't possess millions of colors even if it were possible millions of them existed in sl, exaggerating does not help anyone and certainly won't give you an answer to your query. It's less likely to be taken seriously, actually. LL has already answered whether or not random item vendors are allowed. Their answer is that they are not allowed, they are illegal as of September 1, 2021. They are illegal because the customer does not in fact know what they are getting, they only know one thing about it, gender. No one said anything about lying, LL has stated customers need to know exactly what they are buying, you are not fulfilling that when you use a random vendor.

Multi-item vendors exist and are not difficult to use. If you need assistance figuring one out, there are a lot of people that can help with that. I have bought, sold and participated in breedables since 2008, so I can fully understand the time it takes to package things for sale. but let's not exaggerate things here, lol. You cannot use a random vendor at all, those are being nixed, end of, can't do it. There is no way around that. So, what you can do is take your breedables and put them in multi-item vendors that specifically tell the person the exact quail egg they are buying. That can be accomplished through both vendor pictures and/or a vendor that uses hovertext. You just have to make sure people buying from you know what quail egg they are getting. It sounds more complicated than it is, and people have been selling breedables this way forever, so it's very possible. Most people that sell breedables still do, unless, like you, they use a random vendor (which isn't allowed and no amount of wishing otherwise will change that, no way around it).

Check my posts for why and how this actually affects breedables. I've already been chastised for writing novels again today, lol But, really, there is a reason why they are not related except in certain circumstances

There are ways, sell your items as we always did before gachas came to be a big thing in sl, and as many, many merchants still do and always have. Countless people are, right this very minute, adjusting their own products so they can continue to sell them outside of gacha machines. People are putting items in vendors, taking and uploading vendor pics, changing perms on items if they want to, and going about their business. This policy change does NOT need to (nor does it inherently) remove their ability to make money in sl. It may change how they have to do it, especially for those who don't know how to sell items from regular vendors, or don't sell on mp, or whatever other issue they might encounter. It's still not the end of the road for creation, selling, or anything like that. It's not going to kill off anyone's livelihood unless they let it, no matter how bleak it might look. Those struggling to figure it out should ask for help, there are plenty I am certain that can and will help. It's a big change and people understand that, whether or not they agree with it. Sl life isn't going to cease to exist or something, though. The longer people spend looking for a workaround, the more time you waste that you could be better spending on existing means to not only continue making a profit but perhaps even increase it. Put the items in a regular vendor, sell on MP, and move on. There's no need for any other kind of schemes or replacements or any of the other ways people are trying to find to skirt the line, and potentially cross it. What consumers have to say about it holds very little water, for me. It's important to listen to them, of course, but some of these ideas are simply a means for people to keep their weird (to me, not overall) addiction to gachas going. It's really clear that's what people are shooting for, rather than aiming to help out actual creators. The better option, instead of trying to come up with weird workarounds, is to encourage creators to start putting their wares into vendors like we did, successfully, FOR YEARS. Tell creators the way you'd like them to present their wares. For example, you love that living room set gacha, but don't need or want the decor just the furniture, tell the creator "I'd love to buy the furniture as a set here, but I don't need all this other stuff", I bet they just might listen! I'm helping someone work on their vendor pics now (she's not very good at them, lol), well, taking a lunch break,. but that's what I'm doing today. She's not bothered and almost her entire sl income for the four years (much of which covers some really important rl bills for her) came from gachas. She's adjusting, there's no reason why anyone else can't, other than just not wanting to put a little work into it. We may not finish in time, but we'll get enough of it done that she'll be just fine and we can work on the rest as she goes. She's not looking for ways around it, she's just changing her methods. Will she make a little less initially? Maybe. But once no one is allowed to use gacha, it'll even things out. As she said "it was a good run while it lasted", and she's grateful for the run, but now the road is changing and if she doesn't, she'll flounder too. She needs her sl income, those who also need their sl income should stop looking for workarounds and start making changes now so they have ample time to do so. I really don't understand why so many people are making this as difficult as they are, it makes no sense to me whatsoever. That might sound snarky, it shouldn't, but it might. This whole thread has been fascinating, but more of a total train wreck and I can't look away, at times, lol. Human nature, we may be a complicated species, but even when we're maddening, we're interesting, right?

Traits that a LE animal can possibly pass on to offspring down the line is irrelevant to the initial purchase, which is where this entire topic is focused, initial purchases. No, the traits you cannot know the LE has are not like a gacha, they are simply something you can do with that item you are buying once you have it. Like I said, if the LE items are being sold from the creator as a starter pack, with unknown initial traits (don't know if you're getting a green or brown, for example), they would fall under the category of things that need to change. But if all LE, dragons for example, are pretty purple swirl with pretty blue eyes, a curly tail and floppy ears, then every single person is getting the same initial dragon. The breeding, or traits that can be brought out through breeding, is secondary, always. Initial traits-what you can see, is not the same as secondary (hidden) traits. So, it wouldn't fall under the same umbrella, not for this particular dicussion's sake anyway. Breeding is always secondary, always. No one HAS to breed these animals. That they choose to, is a separate thing from the initial purchase. Yes, I know most breeders, most buyers, primarily buy breedables to breed them. That doesn't change what the initial purchase is, or that this is where the problem arises. You must know the actual product you are getting when you buy. Unless you're buying a starter pack, you know this information when you buy most breedables. That you do not know what else they are capable of through a secondary game (breeding) is irrelevant, here. You're taking the word gamble here a little too seriously, or at least not applying it correctly. Gachas are not only being targeted simply because they are a gambling mechanism, it's more complicated than that. You take a gamble when you log in to sl at all that everything will be as it should. Shall we include logging in to sl as part of this? No, because the simple fact that it's a gamble, in some sense of the word, doesn't make it a gacha, lol (and yes I realize that's a silly comparison, but it's actually applicable when trying to decipher where words apply and where they don't). I think I already made it clear about LE starter items and why there can be no randomness to exactly what you see, what you get when you buy. The breeding, again, is secondary and not actually part of the initial purchase. You don't have to breed to own those LE animals. I do actually know a lot of people that just like buying them to have them, some breed, some don't, some really just like owning them. But my anecdotal evidence is rather irrelevant too, it doesn't change the fact that secondary breeding...ie, what you can do with your animal once you buy what you see before you, doesn't fall under a gacha as it's been presented to us, so far. Could LL change their minds on this? I suppose. I'm not sure how they'd apply it, it would take some serious acrobatics. I could, however, see them changing how starters are sold/offered, because that makes PERFECT sense and starters are the biggest issue when it comes to breedables and how this whole gacha policy applies (and random vendors, but I think we're both clear that those are nixed no matter what, as they should be, they're random, lol)

Yep, I have since 2008. I'm quite well versed in them. I wouldn't comment if I wasn't, that would be silly. You literally are talking about breeding. That is secondary to the initial purchase of a LE. If the initial purchase of the LE is as random as starter packs, that is to say the exact known traits (not secondary, not unknown, not "can be breed out later down the line", etc..) that can get called into question. That is indeed a starter pack, and falls under exactly what I already said "LL needs to discuss with their legal team on how to help breedable creators solve this initial randomness". It will likely need to be 100% known at time of purchase, no "you could get brown, you could get green, both are starter colors", that will keep it compliant. If, in buying the LE animal you know it's basic traits, the known ones, the ones you can see, before buying (it's green with gem eyes, curly tail, floppy ears), then it is not random. What you can breed out of it is irrelevant to this particular discussion. I don't think you fully understand either what I am saying, or what you're saying. No, all LEs do not all hold the exact same genetics, they are, by design, a bit different, you just have to figure out how (if that's how you choose to play that particular breeding game). If they were not different, there would be differentiation between the offspring they all give off, which is part of that breeding game, lol. You are actually talking about breeding and what you can get out of, or do with, the item (animal in this case) after buying it. This entire post is about what you can get out of those LEs, through breeding (secondary, involving genetics, which in the case of all breedables is still very much just code, everything in sl is., lol) , which is very much secondary to buying the LE in the first place.

What does secondary randomization of traits (which with enough work put in can be determined, but does require some work on your part) AFTER initial purchase of an item, have to do with the actual item you bought? There actually isn't as much luck of draw as you think, it just requires understanding how genetics work, and realizing you may have to put some work in AFTER you buy the initial horse to get what you want later down the road, genetically. It's not the same, not even close, to a random factor being added in to the initial purchase of a horse. Perhaps some people don't quite understand breedables the way they think they do, I'm not sure. But the two things are not as related as you might think. Now, if you bought that horse from a vendor, all sight unseen, like a random vendor, that's not permitted anymore under this policy. Let's say I get a couch it's an awesome couch, I love my couch. Let's say the creator updates it, or it has features I was unaware of at my initial purchase. It has a setting that randomizes the poses into it's own sequence so I don't have to click buttons. Do you really want this to apply to all things? Or can we get back to talking about the randomization of initial purchase which is where portion of the legality of these items comes into play.

That you need one product to make another product work after purchase, such as feeding breedables, is nothing like a gacha, in any way. What an item does after you purchase it (such as with breeding animals giving you offspring) has no relevance in this discussion to the initial purchase of an animal. They are completely unrelated because there is no randomness, except in the case of starter packs (and random vendors which are being made obsolete regardless, so, a non-issue) which will require LL looking into them and advice from their legal team on how to help creators of breedables proceed with that. I am certain that creators will need to ensure starter packs are no longer random, in order to comply. Otherwise, the remainder is fully complying with both the letter and spirit of the law, as it were.

It's a curious thing, people wanting to replace the whole system, especially with a system that carries too many similarities. Are people unaware that these similarities would likely put us right back in the same boat, if not sooner, later? Why is there such a desire to replace these systems with any system, much less one that shares similarities? The much easier solution is to go back to selling items the way we did before gachas were even a thing. Things can still be sold no copy yes transfer, if people want to keep the reselling alive, it's not like that option disappears, lol. It's not the most desired perms option, but it is still an option. Yes, selling things the way every merchant did for years before gacha became a thing in sl may require some more work for some people. It won't require a ton of work for all people, but it will require some work of varying levels for people. There is still nothing stopping merchants, creators and even resellers from selling their wares in the same way(s) we always have. People talk about the prims it would require to sell them. Vendors do not require a ton of prims, so, yes, people could put things in vendors, we even have 1 prim vendor options. MP requires no prims at all, so that is also a viable option, as it's always been. Let's say a merchant has a set of plush animals out in a gacha right now. Yes, they will have to take individual pictures of those items, but they won't have to repackage those items (already packaged), remake them(unless they choose to change perms, that's on them to decide, and it's still an easy change). So the work involved would be setting up a vendor, uploading the pics, and loading the vendor. The prices can be comparable to what they were in the gacha, or they can be whatever the creator wants them to be. If people desire the items, they'll sell, if they do not, they won't, just like they always have. The market dictates desire, with or without gachas, it always has. It may be, or seem, a bit shaky for a while, but sl isn't going to end over this. I have difficulty believing most who say they'll leave sl over it. I'm sure they don't care I have difficulty believing them. Will some leave? Maybe, they very well may come back, they may also not, but most aren't going anywhere. Gacha isn't the be all end all of most people's sl existence, even when it plays a big role. Yes, it's work to change how things are done, can't deny that. It's the same work everyone put in before, the same work merchants that don't sell gachas use now. It's not going to kill anyone to put this work in, some may do it at a slower pace, but that's okay too. If you can't get it done in the allotted time, take your time and just remove your machines and items that you can't get done in time until you can. You could always put them up on MP too, which really isn't as difficult as some might think, especially if you're selling similar items (type up your info, adjust per individual item, copy paste, makes it so much easier to do). Hundreds of people, maybe more, are likely doing that right now. Every creator and reseller I personally know, is working on this right now. A couple of them are increasing the cost of the individual items, a little bit, to help offset the fact that people won't be paying money for stuff they don't want anymore (they tend to call these bloated sales, they're well aware of what they are). The others are all listing those same items (ones currently in machines) at the pull price, while considering how to price new items from there. I think these are reasonable options, and there's not much reason why most others can't do the same. The resellers aren't affected by this work at all, they can continue to sell their purchased gachas at whatever price they want to, until they run out. They don't have to put in even a tiny portion of the work, the world turns as it has for ages for them, nothing changes unless they run out of stock. But that was never truly going to last forever, reselling anything in sl has always been a bumpy ride. Gacha reselling just made it seem like it was a viable "way of life" for lack of better term on my part. I do feel for people who may get hit a bit harder, people who cannot seem to sell their wares without some kind of gacha system in place. I am not sure they will have the same problem they had in the past when everyone is restricted to the same selling methods, though it may take some time. No one is going to expect to see gacha when no one is allowed to use them, which should help. It really sucks for anyone actually negatively affected (and I really hope they can find a solution, so they can stick around, I very much do), but I don't think most people fall into this category, they just think they do.

There was a time when 7seas fish and items were not transferable. Even if the items that 7seas now offers (direct from them) are transferable, there are still people that load up their own prizes for people to "fish up", that are both transferable and not. There's actually a pretty wide variety of things one can fish for in the game. So, yes, it is possible that even if LL employees themselves participated in 7seas fishing, they may not know which items are or are not transferable. It is better to have a blanket "items cannot be transferable" policy than to try and figure every individual thing out. It covers all locations that use 7seas, whether they use fish/prizes provided by 7seas themselves, or their own prizes. This has nothing to do with LL not knowing what their residents are doing. Some items are, some items aren't, in order to make the entire 7seas game allowed, a blanket policy needs to be in place for it. I should've probably prefaced this by saying I have made a LOT of items for people to put in 7seas fishing areas, including my own in the past. Some items were transfer, some were not. If I continued to do this, which I am working on actually, I need to comply with the same rules as everyone else. None of the prizes I make for this system moving forward, can be transfer. Easy peasy, I can do that.

I'm beginning to wonder if some of the folks commenting about breedables are actually familiar with them, at all. Starter packs are relatively random, so I could see this policy forcing breedable creators to adjust how those are sold, as in, removing the randomness, or possibly changing the permissions if that is what is necessary (I can make a guess as to what needs to be done, but it would just be a guess). I am certain that starter packs are one of those issues that still needs to be sorted, because, like I said, they're relatively random. It's still an easy thing for creators to fix. People can no longer put their offspring (in whatever form it comes, of course, nest, egg, crystal, whatever) into random vendors, because...random, and the offspring are also transferable, which essentially makes these random vendors the same as gacha. So, that's an easy thing to fix...stop using random vendors, problem solved. Sell your offspring the normal way(s) if you want to, MP, in world, in a regular vendor that actually tells people exactly what they're buying, etc..) Secondary sales of offspring (again in whatever form they come, egg, next, whatever), you always know what you're buying. If I go to buy a horse bundle, I can see what traits it has before I buy it (usually done by clicking the unbirthed nest, egg, bundle, etc.). When I bought bunnies, I could see by clicking the nests, reading the MP listing, or looking at the vendor if that's how it was sold, exactly which traits are in that nest (ie, exactly what bunny). There is no randomness to it, at all, you know what you're buying. If I sell a dog, cat, whatever, offspring, the person buying from me knows what they are buying, there is nothing random at all to it, there is no chance, there is simply me selling a product to someone else, full stop. The randomness, with breedables, only comes into play with starter packs (or whatever the creator calls their version) which are random until birth, and any vendor that has a randomness to purchasing. Otherwise, I can see why LL would say this doesn't apply to them, because it doesn't. I'm not really sure why some are arguing that there is a randomness to all breedables, when there isn't. If people are talking about the breeding processes, that has absolutely nothing at all to do with buyers purchasing, or this topic, or gachas, or, anything, lol.

I'm only on page 18, but I've read enough thus far to make this particular comment, I think. (I'll continue reading after this too, of course) I know a lot of creators. I know a lot of people that sell things, but maybe aren't creators, they resell, especially gachas. Some of my creator friends make a decent chunk of change (in my opinion, and theirs) on gachas. I'm not a huge fan, never really have been, they're all well aware of that fact, lol. Absolutely none of them are freaking out about this as much as some of the people here are. A couple of them make way more on gacha item sales than they do their regular items. Want to know what they're all going to do now, because of this change? They're going to do what most reasonable creators (for those who create) would do and now sell those items that sell in gacha machines in either packs or as individual items. I know, nifty concept, they get to sell what they're already selling or making, the same way they always did before gacha became a thing in sl to begin with. Those who are resellers will sell up what they have, and at least one of them is working on learning how to create, the others will probably find other means to make whatever money they might now lose out on. But none of them are seeing any of this as a problem. In most cases, they all have known this would probably happen at some point. It's been a contentious issue for quite a long while now. Any creator worth their salt would at least have done a tiny bit of research into the problem surrounding gachas, lootboxes, games of chance, etc.. when it was made more widely known (which it did a long time ago). No creator is going to lose their livelihood over this, that's just ridiculous to even suggest, lol. Resellers may get hit, eventually, though not likely anytime soon. The folks who just sell some here and there aren't relying on gacha sales for their sl livelihood in the first place, lol. Creators aren't going to get hit as hard as some are suggesting, they just might have to change how they sell things, which isn't a bad thing at al. Gachas have created a weird stagnation in how things are sold to begin with, I'm surprised LL held on this long allowing them, really. Now creators can go back to selling things the way we always did before these things became the "in" thing here. If prims are an issue for inworld sellers, they can use vendors. They can sell individual items, they can sell packs, they can do whatever the heck they want as long as they're transparent on the what and how much of every sale (ie, what you're buying, what you're paying). It's not rocket surgery people! Sellers have never struggled with figuring out how to sell their wares the way people seem to suggest the removal of gachas would cause (well, the way the folks in this thread suggest it would cause, anyway). There is no reason why creators will have to, or even will, start changing the permissions they set on their items. Maybe some creators will start going back to the old way of selling multiple versions (copy/mod, or no copy/trans, for example) to appease everyone. MP won't suffer, it might in fact, over time, help clean it up a bit, although with as many gachas as are out there now, it's going to be along while before we see that cleanup, lol. The sky's not falling, this won't be the end of sl, creators aren't going to get driven off the grid. Creators can still make and sell their wares, and we'll all be okay.

Most likely, yes.

Oh so very much. I could fill the national library and still not scratch the surface

So you want personal opinions, but don't want them personal...and you want everyone else to be open minded, but you don't want to be open minded. I read almost every single post that gets put on these forums, I have for many years now. To insinuate I do not, without even knowing, makes you personally biased against anything I say that might not coincide with how you feel. That's not being open minded on your part. I was merely explaining that the algorithm, as it is created, is not racist and does not, itself, contribute to racism. It simply doesn't, and no amount of suggesting it does, will change that. Being racist is a human thing, a human trait, a human act. So, only humans can be, and nearly all of us (probably all, but I'll stick to the safe side with nearly all) have biases in this realm, for, against, accepting, judgmental, etc.. we just do. Those biases, themselves, have an effect on us (including how we interact with technology, ie. an image search), but a search algorithm, itself, cannot and does not. It's not a personal attack, it's literally me explaining that other things affect how we perceive, interact with, accept, etc.. others, far more than an image search can. THAT is a more valid discussion, imo, how other things affect us in that area. I don't think a discussion about an algorithm which is specifically designed to utilize our personal biases is going to garner you the answers you seek. So, take the image search part out of the equation and you have a more important discussion about information biases, especially when they're related to something as important as racism. I personally take racism and all discussions about it seriously. I don't take people who assume google search is a racist, as seriously as they might like me to. It may sound like a personal attack, but really it's just trying to avoid the ridiculous part of the equation (tacking a human trait/act on to a non-human entity) so that the actual important values are presented. I don't need to justify my beliefs, I actually think we believe similar things, I just won't be ridiculous enough to blame a google image search, which I understand very well, for the very biased results I know it's going to give me. If I make multiple searches for blue butterflies over a period of time, and then suddenly just search butterfly as a more generic term, I am very likely to get a lot more blue butterfly results than others might. This is because my activities, my interactions with this technology, are now colored (heh, pun totally intended) by the bias created by prior searches. That doesn't mean I inherently feel differently towards butterflies of other colors, though. There is a distinction, and I find it quite important. And now you can go back and read your reply to me with your advice under belt You assume I read nothing, when most here can probably tell you quite the opposite of me. You went into replying to me with a very closed mind, merely because I did not agree with your conclusion, because it was not the same as mine (and as you said to me, others have had results more similar to mine, than yours, as well...it goes both ways, really, lol). You are sticking by your own point, are you not? There is nothing wrong with standing by what we say, staying steadfast to our knowledge and experiences. That doesn't always mean we are close minded on every subject. I am quite far from it. If you want to discuss different biases, as I said above, I'll be glad to. I just don't entertain the silly notion that google search is a racist. It takes value away from the fact that humans very much are.

I'm beginning to wonder if this is for some kind of assignment, lol. (I had an assignment almost identical to this topic, informational biases (with the use of technology) and racism, a few years ago)