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Tari Landar

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Posts posted by Tari Landar

  1. On 8/29/2021 at 8:52 PM, Jules Catlyn said:

    I make cars and after years of testing several ways to provide demos, for me the best way is the timed demo. It still wont please everybody but it seem the most accepted way for my category of product.I can see the aggravation for clothing and such but i dont see why they would be a bad thing for every product.

    I will probably catch criticism for this. I dont really care. I just go what experience has taught me over the years, 

    Vehicles are the ONLY product where a timed demo seems reasonable, but even then, there is  a major caveat. The length of the time is extremely important, and some vehicle creators don't realize this. Some people seem to think ten minutes is sufficient, I question whether or not they remember what it is like to try something new, lol. While I, personally, fall under a minority category in this (which I recognize), ten minutes is still rarely sufficient for even the most well versed vehicle handler that I know, lol, but it's the most commonly used time frame that I've seen. 

    Me, I'm a terrible driver, admittedly so, and I do love test driving different kinds of vehicles in sl. If the timed demo doesn't last for at least 15 minutes, it's a no go for me (even then, it's pushing my envelope). I need time to ensure I can, somewhat, handle the vehicle (or well, my version of it, which is still terrible, lmao). I need time to check out the options, read any notecards-hopefully the version(s) included with the full product, figure out controls, preferably test in different areas/terrains when at all possible (not a fan of places that will only let me temp rez a vehicle at their store, which has limited space for testing and certainly only one type of terrain...but, I digress, different topic, lol). I would much prefer a vehicle creator give me a few less options, like texture/color differences (if their vehicle has that built in), or lights/particle smoke effects, etc.. and a longer timer, than a shortened timer with full features. Some things aren't nearly as important as others, and vehicle handling, and basic functions are way more important than showing me the array of different textures and colors and other small things it can do. I can be given a few, or limited, textures/colors and still be able to test the creator's ability to make something look awesome. But a shorter timer makes figuring out the ins and outs of vehicle more of a pain in the butt. 

    I've seen people that handle vehicles way better than I who struggle to actually test a vehicle with the timers I've seen on some demos, it's part of why some vehicle makers who used to only allow people to rez right there in the location no longer do that, it's too limiting (and more still no longer exist). That doesn't guarantee a lost sale, some folks will buy anyway if they like it enough. I've had that bite me in the behind more than once and have since learned my lesson. My terrible driving is bad enough, I don't need products that don't quite work right (because I couldn't fully test them long enough) on top of it, lol. 

    Of course, all creators are free to do as they wish, and if what they choose works for them, that's awesome. I'm not suggesting my way(s) work better, just that they work better for me, as a consumer of vehicles (one of the few things I do purchase and pay attention to, since fashion is pointless, boring and stupid to me, lol). So no criticism really from me, just my own experiences with timed demo vehicles. 

    • Like 1
  2. 8 hours ago, Mylovice said:

    If I move the necklace over my neck I can click on it.

    As Rowan said, something you have on is blocking your ability to touch the necklace properly. Right clicking and touching from inventory will fix the issue. If it helps any, this is how I select items to touch them while wearing them pretty much all the time. It's a habit I got into years ago so I wouldn't have to turn off my ao just to click things, way back when. It's a good habit to get into (like always adding instead of wearing), it can save you a lot of future headaches :)

     

    • Like 3
  3. In order for them all to have suddenly stopped working, they would all need the exact same script (not all creators use the same script, so, this can't happen, ftr, while there are some common ones, they are not all identical) and something would need to have changed on LL's end in the code that forced this particular script to suddenly no longer function. I can't imagine anything they would have done which would only break necklace resize scripts and nothing else that also uses resize, there's no logic behind that.

    So, it must be something else entirely, such as what Rowan suggested, you're in an area where scripts aren't permitted. I don't know of a single person having this issue.  Are you perhaps trying to resize a necklace that uses a script which doesn't allow it to go beyond a specific size? (I've seen a few of those, although they are quite old and I don't think I've seen anything use those scripts in at least 10 years). Perhaps try going to a different location and try there instead, it could simply be an issue of lag causing a delay. 

  4. 19 hours ago, Velk Kerang said:

    A lot of creators will just take their businesses to other grids and sell them there if they don't already have something established there already.

    No, as a whole, they won't, the overall audiences on those other grids is already puny compared to sl. Any creators that do attempt to do so, whether or not they already exist in those other places will quite quickly realize just how tiny their target market(s) in those places truly are. They will realize the losses (resources, time, etc..) to create or sell in those places will overshadow most profit (save for truly well established businesses, which still won't likely succeed trying to change how they do things to adding in gacha selling methods..but, I digress on that bit).  Then they will come back here, and, hopefully, work through the math in their heads, on their appendages, or using whatever tools they need to, in order to realize that selling those same wares they once sold in (or would have) a gacha machine can be placed in normal vendors and will give them far more profit than trying to do so on some other, mostly untraveled, grid.  Unless of course they're perfectly fine with selling less product and reaching a much, much, much more tiny audience...then, sure, maybe they will. (still not likely, but I'll play devil's advocate).

    19 hours ago, Velk Kerang said:

    Same people cheering the Gacha demise don't realize they are slicing their own throats in the long run as well too

    Nope, sellers that are choosing to try and find ways to get around the new policy changes by utilizing similar methods, rather than going with well established selling methods that have worked since 2003 are the ones shooting themselves in the foot. They could've had all (maybe most in some cases, all in a lot though) of those shiny gachas, new products, old products, etc.. in vendors (of all kinds) by now, and they'd be making more and more profit everyday. It's not rocket science, it's not even close to that complex to sell items in sl, it's really not. It's even less complex to buy them ;) 

    19 hours ago, Velk Kerang said:

    Less money circulating in the big money machine means less money and lack of services all around.

    Nope, not how it needs to work. There wouldn't be less money circulating if people would quit boo-hooing at the new changes (yes, I am reasonable, I understand people don't like it, but the policy isn't getting reverted, it's here, we need to deal...it might suck for some, it is what it is) and start seeing how they can not only increase their profit but also help the whole of sl move on. People are overcomplicating the whole thing for no real reason, aside from the fact that folks want to discuss why they do or do not like the change. I get that part, even if LL maybe doesn't want people doing it, I get the desire. But, still, this whole transition from gacha machines to normal vendors doesn't need to be this complicated and is actually likely to create more profit for quite a few creators when they realize just how many people would love to buy their wares if they could just click a vendor, pay for the item they want, and move on to the next thing they want to buy. Creators can even cut down on the issues of having so many gacha machines (some have a lot) in one place by using multi-item vendors that cause a bit less script lag (note I did not say lag, but script lag as that's really the main thing people complain about, overall lag is a horse of another color altogether). Merchants and creators have way more options than they think, and so do shoppers when the other parties implement those options. 

    This weird reliance on gachas (or any similar system) as a prime selling mechanism doesn't need to exist, there's no need for such a dependence from merchants/creators or shoppers, really. Just look at how many people (big sellers, small ones, everyone in between..) have been selling in sl for years, well over a decade in so many examples, and not once have they used gacha machines and similar. If they can do it, anyone can :D 

    • Like 4
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  5. 5 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

    Not at all, and certainly not in any discipline I am familiar with.  As a department chair, dean, and senior administrator, I would have been very critical of any program that did not expect its faculty to take an active role in supervising graduate-level work

    As I said, some supervision and guidance, absolutely, it's always necessary. The level of guidance and supervision, however, should wane somewhat once a student reaches a certain level. Personal responsibility and accountability are as important academically as they are in a place of employment.  How can you expect a graduate student to become professional enough to make it in their field of study, if you don't expect that same level of professionalism to grow throughout their academic journey? That would be like throwing a 6th grade student into the field of immunology after they had one test about the common cold, unlike throwing a graduate student who has studied immunology into the field and expecting them to have more knowledge about the common cold. (expectations are different at different academic levels)

    5 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

    Any faculty member who gets outside funding for research will also discover quickly that it's hard to maintain a research program and continue her own professional growth without involving students as partners.  Cutting a student loose and expecting her to find her own way into the professional world is irresponsible.

    Where did I said anything at all about cutting a student loose? I specifically said some supervision and guidance is necessary. It is not the responsibility of ANY educator at the graduate (and beyond) level to be expected to walk a student through "how to begin your research", there simply aren't enough hours in any given day for an educator to do this with each and every student and it also removes responsibility from the student too. Just as it should not be expected, at that level, for an educator to continue to explain why wikipedia is not an academic source of information. That's something a student should already know and understand at that point. I would expect that any place of higher education would expect their graduate students to know the very basics of how to start, and if they do not, to ask for assistance (which then may call their academic capabilities into question, though). Undergraduate students are far more likely to need more assistance with the beginning steps of research, but graduate students should already have some capability under their belt. How on earth would a student make it to being a graduate student without this knowledge? Perhaps the universities I have attended have higher expectations for students in that they expect them to not only know how to begin, but also how to ask for help should they need it as well. Perhaps they also expect more from graduate (and further) students, as well, than others experienced. I know I have been in classes with students who weren't up to par for the level we were at, and it had nothing to do with a lack of supervision and guidance, but rather that they simply weren't ready. Like I said, it's not the end of the world to not be ready. 

    Being an advisor is something I do take seriously, and if I find a student lacking the academic capabilities to be at the level they are, I will do something about it. I have in the past and I have no qualms doing it again. It is not my fault, or my failing that somehow a student managed making it through high school, through an undergraduate program, to a graduate program, and still not know some of the most basic aspects of research. This is indicative of a bigger problem which could mean the student isn't ready for a graduate program, yet, could mean they need additional assistance (both very easy to fix), or as with many assignments and projects concerning this topic, is more indicative of a lazy attitude (which needs to be nipped, but still rests entirely on the student's shoulders if they continue moving forward with it). 

  6. 5 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

    Wow, what school are you involved with....Hippy U or Anarchy Academy?  😁

     

    Do you actually know what the word anarchy means, or even hippy for that matter? It's sort of evidenced here that you don't. That was also a terrible insult, you should try harder next time. I'm very proud of my degrees, my areas of study, my capabilities, my experiences, and my accomplishments both academically and throughout my years of  employment. I'm sorry you cannot say the same. 

    5 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

    t has always been amazing to me just how little those graduating with a 4-year degree actually know

    What you think you know, and what you actually know, are vastly different from one another, clearly. The same can be said of many students, especially those that need their hands held through everything. 

    5 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

    graduate level students do indeed need ample supervision to attain professional standards. Even post graduates do.

    As I said, SOME guidance, absolutely, a complete handholding session that points out how to research things, no. There is a difference between offering guidance and support, and expecting an educator to tell you every single thing you need to do, in order to research, at a graduate level. To me, that is indicative of someone not being ready to perform research who needs more help academically (in other words, the need to go back, study harder, and try again), so they can get to the point that they can do some very basic research on a topic. Remember, we're discussing someone here who has no idea HOW to research a topic, has no experience with it, and no knowledge of sl at all. This is not a person being failed by a lack of guidance or supervision, but rather someone who is attempting to write a thesis on the basis that it's going to be an easy grade. I have seen these projects, these topics, these papers, firsthand, they all look quite similar and it never bodes well for the student. It's not a lack of guidance or supervision that makes them so, it's a failing on the part of the student.  Those being critical of this person's guidance, ought to be more critical of this person's capabilities, especially academically, which does not fall entirely on the shoulders of the educators. 

    • Like 1
  7. 2 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

    Having gone through the process of writing graduate theses and then supervising them for a good part of three decades before I retired, I can assure you that supervision is a very important part of graduate education. Grad students are on the brink of becoming professionals. 

    Some guidance is needed, yes, the amount needed to tell them how to do research, at this particular level, absolutely not. It is doing the student absolutely no favors whatsoever. I both have been and currently am a graduate student (and postgraduate as well). I have also taught and advised them myself, so to expect the level of handholding necessary in order for a student to realize how horrible this kind of "research"(and I use that term as loosely as humanly possible, as it's really not) in a graduate student, is ridiculous. I see it all the time in  students and it only proves to make the entire educational journey even more complicated. It makes me question how the student managed getting this far to begin with (not to mention who let them get this far)

    2 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

    A graduate advisor is a role model and mentor -- often one of the student's earliest and most important professional colleagues. An advisor who takes the role seriously is not only helping to catapult the student into a career but is also helping maintain the standards of the discipline.  Anyone who does not take it seriously is doing a grave disservice to both the student and the field.

    Most students only have advisors if they need them, they aren't there to monitor every single thing the student does. In fact, they are not even called graduate advisors in most places, they are simply called academic advisors and are primarily there to ensure the student does not get his or herself put on academic probation. They are not there to ensure a GRADUATE student knows how to research a topic. They are there to help advise when necessary, but graduate students are rarely encouraged to contact them about everything, as there is some level of expectation already there by the time a student gets that far. 

    As I said, I have been responsible for not only grading some of these types of assignments, but also reading through them, and advising students. I have even guided students through these topics, more times than I could possibly count at this point (it's actually a very common topic, especially in IT related courses, which are my primary focus and always have been). I know what the vast majority of students are capable of, and I know what's expected of graduate students. Yes, they need some guidance, but if a graduate student needs to be told how to research a topic and have their hand held through every step, they are not ready to be a graduate student. They are also most definitely not ready to write a thesis on the topic they've chosen. That's not merely me being critical of the individual, which is also a necessary tool for an academic advisor, but also understanding through years of experience precisely how assignments like this often go. There is nothing wrong with a student not being academically ready for something, it just means more work needs to be put in. This is something I, quite often, have to explain to students, and it's rarely ever something anyone wants to hear. 

    Undergrad students need far more assistance and guidance than graduate students do. Perhaps we should start setting our expectations a wee bit higher for people "on the brink of becoming professionals". Once they get out there, the handholding and coddling will be minimal, if any exists at all. One major purpose of a thesis is to show that a graduate student does not need the same guidance as an undergraduate student might. That he or she understands not only how to research a topic (whether or nor he or she has any experience or knowledge of it going in) and how to apply what is learned through proper research done. A these should not be reflective of an academic advisor's or even professor's/instructor's ability to walk a well established student through the entire process. 

    This is why I do not like seeing people being critical of the advisor/professor/instructor, as at some point, their guidance does need to be minimal. That will allow the student to prove he or she knows what they're actually doing, what they have learned, and that they can continue to take all of that experience and knowledge with them into the real world. If the student isn't ready, then they're just not ready, it's not the end of the world. But sending them out into the world ill-prepared to do much of anything isn't going to help anyone. It's not always reflective on the educator's ability, nor should it be, at least not at this point. Students need to have some personal responsibility and accountability, too. If they need more guidance, it's available, they simply need to go get it, it's not going to jump out at them, though. 

    • Confused 1
  8. I don't like most of these threads, primarily because people will come in and question the supervision of the "student", and I think that's a load of horsepoop. A student at this level shouldn't need someone to handhold and coddle them and tell them "this isn't proper research". This isn't a middle school or even high school student, this is a college student, at a high enough level to have some experience under their belt. If anything, less supervision should be necessary at this level, if only to be used as a learning experience teaching the "student" what not to do.

    OP has no sl experience, and likely only chose this particular topic because they thought it would be an easy thing to "research" given the fact that there are wikis, blogs, these forums, another forum and plenty of people to do the basic legwork. Not to mention any information collected is done "anonymously"(not really, but I'll let op think so, lol) which means there is no citation(s) to be made other than the most basic. 

    In all but one of my degree programs, people have tried to pull these same stunts, tried to write "papers" and "assignments" using these same stunts, and even some that were all about "video games" (mostly sl). I've even had to read and grade some of these, it's not pretty, it NEVER is, and I can easily tell which people actually have no experience, lol. Not a single one of them made any damn sense, none have ever gotten a very good grade, most are actually failing grades. They all lack actual research and come from people who are, well, to be frank, pretty damn lazy, because they thought they could get an easy grade. I would never encourage this kind of behavior in a student, regardless of where they are. Now a student just wanting to better understand the subject(s), but not making it an entire assignment, or worse a thesis, is not a bad thing. But it's only not a bad thing when it's used as PART of something and includes multiple subjects or areas (for example, online behaviors vs offline, online relationships as they relate to offline, etc...) especially with something as important as a thesis, which should be far more vast and encompassing of multiple subjects. 

    This isn't likely to bode very well for this student, regardless of how many people answer this horribly put together survey (and I'm not counting the language barrier here, as that has nothing to do with the horrible nature of it), lol. I don't know a single professor or instructor that I have had who would accept this subject material to begin with, because it's too vague and op has no existing knowledge. It's quite likely the student has already been told this and just isn't listening. 

    • Like 1
  9. Have you checked your teleport history? I tp around a lot of places and whether or not I purchase things, this is how I find places I've been. Sometimes just seeing the name is enough to trigger the memory of what it looked like. But, even if that doesn't work, you can tp around pretty quickly to all the places you've been, ad will find it. This can be especially helpful if you happen to go to a LOT of places. 

    • Thanks 1
  10. I don't frankly care why you do it, just stop, it's ignorant. Don't blame others for your poor choices, if you can't control your fingers, stay off public forums. Adults shouldn't need to be told these things. It's absolutely infuriating to constantly "see" crap like this. 

    • Like 4
  11. 2 hours ago, RyanJoshua said:

    I have been hearing that many of the GACHA creators were complaining< rightfully so> because some people are re-selling their items for a huge profit... Rare Items can sell for 2000 to 4000 L$ when a person < the re- seller> has only paid , maybe 75L$ for the item

    Yeah. that's not happening, creators are not complaining, anywhere, about their items being resold. If a creator doesn't want their items to be able to be resold, they will simply not make them transfer. They can't control what others resell their products at. They're the ones that made certain ones "rare" to begin with, they put the idea into customers' heads that certain ones were likely "worth more" than others. Now not everyone likely agreed with them on this assessment, but they're still the ones that put the idea out there. 

    I have a bunch of different animals that were all gachas at one point, not a single one of them considered "rare" by their creators, but I personally treasure them and consider them to be far more valuable than nearly all the others in their respective packs. Rare really shouldn't be determined by the creator, imo, that's a huge part of what made gacha machines predatory in nature, this scripted and artificially inflated rarity (which in itself varied widely, most leaning towards the not really all that fair odds against consumers). But, I digress....

    No, creators are not complaining about their items being resold at higher values than customers paid. If they didn't want that to happen, they had every opportunity to stop that even before this policy change. In fact, customers selling their stuff at higher values probably helped to increase the popularity of their machines and wares in the first place. No creator is going to complain about getting more sales, lol. 

    • Like 5
  12. My opinion likely means absolutely nothing to most people, but I'll share it anyway.

    I am not a huge shopper, for myself, in sl. At least, I don't buy clothing, hair, shapes, skins, makeups, other av accessories, etc.. I buy things like animals (a lot), sometimes furniture, games, fun stuff, and building supplies (way too much).So those are the creators I look for, ones that cater to the things I buy, for myself anyway. A lot of gachas don't really fall into that realm, but those that do, I've never been a huge fan of because there is usually only one or two things in them that I want. So I have always bought them direct from resellers on mp or inworld at places that sell them.

    I do, however, frequently help other people find stuff they're looking for, including gachas of things I'd never buy because they're not my cup of tea (mostly clothes, because, again, I don't shop for clothes, I haven't bought a clothing item for myself in years, lol). I'm pretty good at finding things, even if I'm not a fan of shopping.

    Moving forward no one that I know (or help) personally, and this includes myself, intends to use whatever people replace gacha machines with, including this gachaveyor nonsensical asshatery (whether or not it remains permitted is irrelevant, we don't care, lol). What we'll be looking for, and I can say we since we've discussed it, is merchants willing to sell their items in normal vendors, or on mp, at reasonable prices (read: affordable within our individual budgets, reasonable being subjective and all), and not just in sets, fatpacks, exclusives, etc.etc.. Those are the things we look for most often anyway, even when gachas were a big thing, but some of them had no problem scouring gachas (or having me do so for them lol) to find what they wanted, either.  We're probably not even a blip on the radar, and that's okay, I'm sure we never really were. But I am finding more and more people, even outside of my own personal circles, who are starting to feel the same way. Even people who were quite gung ho on this conveyor idea are starting to realize it's a whole lot of SSDD, which speaks more to the motivations of the sellers that want to use them and perhaps them being more of a money grab than people may have realized. Many people seem to focus a lot on the "ooh I can get something really cheap", which, when all is said and done, IS a good deal for them so I can't fault them for thinking that way (and would never). But often times people don't think in big picture, and now they're realizing the picture is much bigger than they thought. 

    I don't see this idea getting nearly as much traction as people think it will, regardless of what any individual thinks about it. I think the whole "we need to find a way to have something almost identical to what is going away" is forcing some eyes open that might not have been before (that's not a knock on visual impairments, I'm mostly blind and literally typing this with one eye open, lmao). There are ways to sell your wares, there have always been ways, no merchant NEEDS gacha or gacha-esque selling tactics to sell their wares. Once the playing field is leveled and everyone has to use the same methods, people will see this. Well, they would if LL hadn't done what I consider to be jumping the gun and okaying this conveyor idea, anyway. At least without that idea on the table, everyone is at a more even level. Merchants that think they would struggle selling their wares without these methods might realize that if everyone is struggling, that struggle might be more of a perception issue than it is an actual issue. Methods may need to be changed, but they're all doable. 

    Now I'm rambling, but, the take away from my post I suppose is that these machines, should they continue being allowed (gachaveyor and its progeny) are definitely not going to see the same widespread acceptance as gacha machines did. People are paying close attention now, seeing the writing on the wall and staring to realize there are better ways to sell and buy items...gimmicks like this aren't necessary. 

    • Like 7
  13. Oh yes we will, it's merely Sunday (in the US), tomorrow is Monday (here in the US anyway). A new wave of disgruntled folks will likely trail in tomorrow. There will be more "WHAT THIS IS THE WORST DECISION LINDEN LABS HAS EVER MADE, I QUIT" posts. There will be more "who the hell came up with this idea?" posts, both referring to the removal of gachas, and the new ideas presented. There will be more "gachaveyors are the debil" posts. There will be more "gachaveyors are second coming of the greatest thing to ever exist in sl" posts. There will be a bunch of crap I don't understand, some crap I do understand, some intelligent posts and a bunch of other stuff I haven't yet thought of.

    I assure you, we'll make it to 150, come hell or high water! (probably both, adding in a bit of fire and brimstone for dramatic effect. 

    • Haha 8
  14. 4 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

    If the tip jar, obviously an attachment that can only pay that avatar and no one else, is easier to pay than paying the avatar directly

    How many steps are required in your viewer to directly pay someone? That's not a snarky comment, it's an actual question. I don't use the LL viewer, so I'm not sure how difficult it actually is to directly pay someone, I'm curious. In firestorm it's not difficult at all, two to three steps at most, depending on which method one chooses, but super simple. Often more simple, and quicker, than trying to pay a tip jar, depending on where I'm standing, the lag I'm experiencing, etc... 

    4 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

    You wouldn't think to pay them directly unless they wore a tip jar on their heads.

    Perhaps you wouldn't, many people would and do. I direct pay people all the time, no need for tip jar over their heads. This happens at live events all the time too, I see it a lot.  I've always done this at venues when I can't find the tip jar quickly, or find my experience to be particularly laggy.

     

    4 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

    The reaction to it is the usual allergy to commerce

    Not really, lol. My reaction to it is "why", it's unnecessary, but certainly not an allergy to commerce, that would be a silly reaction, imo. 

    A tip jar over the head is the same thing as paying someone directly. It's no different, because attachments can't be paid, it's a direct pay to the av wearing the attachment. It could simply be seen as an advertisement though, that I get. It could just be a "I want money", and so some people pay the person money, but it's still directly paying them lol. 

    • Like 1
  15. 3 minutes ago, Sukubia Scarmon said:

    Well. What can we do if LL is adamant about allowing conveyorbelt-gachas? Not a rethorical question.

    I will refuse to patronize or encourage anyone else to patronize merchants that utilize these schemes. I'll also point people to the more intelligent posts here from far more intelligent people than myself on why such methods are, well, horrible ideas. 

    It's not much, it will likely have absolutely zero effect whatsoever, but it's what I intend to do. 

    • Like 8
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  16. I have a very strong feeling that when the legal team actually gets a hold of the information related to the conveyor belt type of machines, they are going to be nixed as well, regardless of what any LL employee might think about them(or their conceptual uses). They skirt the line way too closely to be considered sound and will end up coming under severe scrutiny, they already are if one actually reads the thread. Which the legal team should (not any other team, but the legal team) because their decision should very much be affected by the great number of  very valid concerns raised in this thread by some very intelligent people (I'm not one of them, lol).  In fact, I suspect it will be at least enough to cause issues that it will become one of those "nip it in the butt now, so we don't have to deal with possible problems with it later", we all know this is precisely the route LL takes with things, and often times it is the best route. This is one of those times. 

    These machines still possess the predatory "gambling" nature of gacha machines, still possess the same randomness that gacha machines possess, likely still also offer every other aspect of a gacha machine, minus the "don't know what item is next" aspect. But every other aspect that is also putting gacha machines and like systems under a microscope and causing this overall policy change, is still present. 

     

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  17. 17 minutes ago, AmyBlackwood said:

    You make the most of the opportunities of today, save for rainy days and cross the bridge when you have to.

    Wise advice, not doubt, but we are at that bridge, and it appears many have not actually saved up for a rainy day (which now they're learning might not have been a wise option, we live and we learn) This is part of the problem, not only are we at that bridge, but once we cross the other side, the whole area is going to get blown up leaving behind an enormous crater much larger than the bridge. We cannot go back, we cannot rebuild a new bridge, we need to press on.

    These replacement machine ideas are only really redesigns of the exact same bridge intended to cover that newly created crater but will all fall short of succeeding, and do nothing to preserve life moving forward. They're only going to cause the people focusing on them or desiring to use them, to wither away on the shore. Those who opt instead to keep pressing on and stop looking to remake a bridge that will never get built, will likely thrive. At it's core it's common sense, if you really want to boil it down. The longer you spend working on ideas that cannot and will not work, the less time you have for ones that do and will. 

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  18. 1 hour ago, Kricket Calamity said:

    You are trying to put down what customers like to spend their money on because you simply don't like something

    Nope, you're barking up the wrong tree. I never said I didn't like them, nor am I putting down customers. In fact, I am pushing creators, merchants and resellers alike to find ways to get MORE customers. What people spend their money on is of no concern to me. It's not my budget and not my problem, I don't know others' finances, I only know my own. 

    1 hour ago, Kricket Calamity said:

    Why does it bother you so much that other people are interest in it,

    Because it's going away, it's a done deal, it's over. I think people are better off putting their energies towards better solutions where merchants and creators get money more equal to what the work they put in is worth (it's difficult to get actual worth, impossible with a single sale, more doable with numerous smaller ones, but, I digress, that's more of a business topic). I think encouraging people to use the methods we have, which are proven to work, for all involved parties, is a good idea. I'm helping a bunch of merchants do exactly that, and I'm happy to be helping them with it. They have mixed feelings both about gachas and this new policy change, but they're all moving forward and I'm excited for them in that. They aren't looking back, looking at ways to encourage methods that test this new policy change. Instead, they are adapting, some to old ways, some to new (to them) ways. At any rate, they'll all be affected differently by the changes, but things are certainly looking better for them than they are people looking for workarounds. They're more likely to be ready once the change goes fully into effect than people who spend these next days and weeks looking for a way to barely squeak by the new rules. 

    I support creators, I support the belief they (mostly, some are shady, but they're not the majority) should get better compensated for the work they put into things. I strongly believe that a lot of things people sold in gachas were worth far more than their pull price, although I am sure that a lot of those things ended up accumulating more in sales at a lower price point, because of the predatory nature of gacha machines (which they are, no matter how we slice it, they are, it's by design, like impulse buys and loss leaders, they're an enticement to encourage more overall sales, related or otherwise). I don't support the notion that we need to come up with more ideas that skirt the line, that are too much like what we already have in gacha machines (now not permitted, no ifs ands buts or coconuts about it, they're done), or are even worse. I think encouraging merchants and creators to go back to the roots, so to speak, is a better solution.....because it works and we know it works, it has always worked. 

     

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  19. 24 minutes ago, Kricket Calamity said:

    Why? I think all creators should be paid for their time and work, anyone who works should be paid fairly. 

    Then price accordingly and you shall be paid. Really, the market exists if people like your stuff. You don't have to charge an arm and a leg, especially on items that you will likely recoup the costs on after enough sales (enough sales determined by each creator, I don't presume to guess that for them, that would be rude). But if anything, we know that people will pay whatever the heck they want to in sl for things, and cost isn't always something that holds a whole lot of people back. It might hold some of us back (eh hem, me, lol) but it's certainly not going to hold a whole lot back. Look at how many people have a bunch of mesh heads, and bodies, and those are certainly not what I would consider low cost by any stretch of my own personal budget (they are for others, however).

    People WILL pay if you charge what you believe your items are worth, and people believe they are worth it. They just will, it's how sl merchants have always functioned, it's how they'll continue to. 

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  20. 1 hour ago, Kricket Calamity said:

    The desperation comes from creators who are losing their main source of income. If regular releases made even half of what gachas did we wouldn't have ever bothered with gachas.

    This is an emotional response, and exactly what I talked about, umm, I don't know how many pages ago. The emotional part, I get, but the world still isn't ending.  No, most creators are not going to lose their main source of income. They can sell these same items, these same gacha items, in their stores, and they will sell. How many people need to say "yes, we'll still buy your stuff if you continue selling it", do people need to see before they believe it?

    1 hour ago, Kricket Calamity said:

    It takes years to learn meshing, texturing, rigging and then weeks to create items and unless you're in the top stores in SL then you're not even earning minimum wage for often working 60+ hour weeks.

    So how are they making these gacha items? They have these skills to make them, I presume, otherwise they're not really making any money on them, are they?

    1 hour ago, Kricket Calamity said:

    Gacha gave some decent money for our work, certainly not what we should be paid for the hours put into it but a lot more than a regular release

    Which is what I, and others are trying to get across, there is no reason why an item needs to not be profitable, there just isn't. Not when every other merchant has to do things the same way. No gacha for anyone levels the playing field even more. If everyone goes back to selling things the way(s) we always have, and people like your(general) stuff, it will sell. Price it accordingly if you feel the need to raise prices beyond the pull prices (and that I believe MOST people understand, save some weird few, lol). 

     

    1 hour ago, Kricket Calamity said:

    Unless customers want to start paying a lot more for regular releases, we're going to have to find another way to make our money or we'll need to leave and find somewhere else to work. I hope that explains it a bit.

    How many merchants don't use gachas at all and sell just fine? I don't actually know that number, and I don't expect that anyone else will either, but the number is most certainly not a small one. What did people do before gachas were a thing? They sold them in vendors, individually, in sets, in fatpacks, as collections, etc.. There is a myriad of ways to sell, gacha is not the be all end all some people have made it into. Like I said, eliminating them levels the playing field out even more than people realize.

    I can understand the frustration from some creators, I really can, but all this trying to find a workaround is an exercise in futility expending energy that could be better spent on moving to a different sales method. I don't know a single creator, personally, that isn't already doing this and already moving their items, gacha and all, to regular vendors and other methods. I know some who are complaining the whole way, and I get it, really, but they're still doing it. They're not out there looking for a way to make something just like a gacha, but not really a gacha, but behaves like a gacha so customers will fall for it and think it's a gacha..I just don't. None of them are up and leaving sl, even the most angry (and some are, lol). They were told "no more" and so they're doing what they need to do to keep their businesses open. These weird machines, ideas, conveyors, whatever, are just getting ridiculous at this point. 

    Vendors work, they sell, merchants, of all sizes and profit levels, use them everyday in sl. There is no reason for the level of desperation from consumers at all. The only desperation from creators that makes sense is the desire to get everything done in time, that would make one feel desperate. The options are there, they are readily available, people need to USE them and move on with it. 

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  21. 7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

    I definitely understand the desperation from the merchants but the desperation from the consumers seems like....well....hmmm...addiction?

    It is, without a doubt, addiction. Maybe people aren't really aware that one can easily be addicted to just about anything, or at least the feeling(s) they get from anything, not just the physical response(s) to things. 

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  22. Just now, MoiraKathleen said:

    This trying to find any way (except normal vendors) to sell items that had been sold in gachas has been eye-opening, to say the least.  There's almost a feel of desperation to it.

    That pretty much sums it up. I don't understand that desperation, but it's definitely there. I don't understand it because there is no reason for it. All of these same gacha items can be sold in regular vendors, with varied levels of work put in, and slife can go on turning. 

    It's somewhat fascinating to watch, definitely eye opening too. I'm trying hard to reserve at least some of my judgment, but people are making it very easy to judge the mechanics of their business acumen and the effects human behavior have on their bottom line, to put it nicely.

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