Kelli May

Phil Deakins wrote: Alright. I'll to be very specific. When a new user first arrives, they need to quickly learn how to use SL - things like movement, TPing, and communicating. When they've learned those things, they can use SL "properly". They don't need to learn anything else to happily use SL for hours on end, day after day. That learning takes place in the "early times", it's very quick and easy, and it is not a steep learning curve. If they want to make their avatar look great, then more learning is necessary, and it may well be that a female making herself look very good needs to understand a bit more than a male, but it isn't a part of that early time. It's belongs to the bit by bit learning curve - not steep. By using SL "to the full", I mean knowing how to do those simple things, so that a person can fully use SL. When I wrote that phrase, I said that nothing more is necessary - and it isn't. With those simple, quick and easy to learn things, a person can go dancing, go to shows, make friends, etc. etc.; i.e. enjoy SL to the full. They are not excluded from anything. Ok, it's a vague term, but that's what I meant. I didn't mean 'the fullness of SL'. I doubt that anyone uses the fullness of SL, or even knows how to. I hope that clears it up. It does, and it makes a huge difference to the debate. In those terms, SL doesn't have a particularly steep learning curve (I never found it especially steep, more a very long hill with occasional jagged boulders). I'd say, however, that most of the times I've seen someone write the phrase, it's not been in reference to teleports, chat and IM. It's been about opening boxes, getting hair to fit, mesh bodies and maybe even about shoes eta: I suppose what a lot of people mean when they use the phrase is "there's a lot of stuff to learn" which really isn't the same as "a steep learning curve" (unless you have to learn it all quickly). People are thinking how much they've learned over a year, or five, or ten and looking at the newbie who wants to be told it all in half an hour, then resorting to the cliche of "Well, it's a steep learning curve...".

Phil Deakins wrote: Yes, it can, and no doubt does, happen in a user's early times, but I doubt that it happens in the first few days - maybe not even in the first few weeks. And when it happens, the user is using SL quite happily and adequately, so I don;t see it as a part of what is meant when people write that 'SL has a steep learning curve'. My understanding of that phrase is that it means in order to use SL properly. The other point is that nobody needs to know about replacement feet etc. to use SL to the full. Replacement feet and shoes to fit them, etc. merely cause SL to be more enjoyable for a person if that's what they want. That's all. They are not necessary for a full, active, and enjoyable SL experience, so they don't come into "SL has a steep learning curve". Your argument, as ever, is full of vague terms that you only define in retrospect, if at all. 'Early times', 'use SL properly', and 'to the full' mean different things to different users. If a resident joins SL to dress up their avatar, then learning to wear shoes is part of 'using SL properly' and 'to the full'.

Phil Deakins wrote: ...What new user wants to know about replacement feet and shoes to fit replacement feet? Answer to that specific point: Anyone who would like to wear new (ie. not from their inventory) female-styled* shoes. Not because they go out looking for replacement feet, but because the female shoe market is overwhelming stocked with shoes requiring replacement feet. So even if you don't want them, you have to be aware that they exist, and have to look for shoes that aren't for those feet. Just buying the first pair of shoes you find (or even getting them as a store gift) is extremely likely to leave you with a pair of shoes that won't fit, and quite possibly, no indication of why they don't fit. If you want to say that someone who wants new shoes does not fit your definition of a 'new user', then the point is moot. *some male-styled shoes too, but I'll stick wit the most likely case.

EleanorsRigby wrote: ...I prefer Maitreya because it comes with the hands and the feet so no need to pay extra for them like you do with Slink (or at least that is how Slink was last time I looked)... Just a quick point: the situation is a little more complicated than that. The price of a Slink body plus one set of hands and feet is less than the Maitreya body package which includes hands and feet. If you're happy with one height of feet, that makes Slink the cheaper choice. However, the Maitreya body has low, medium and high foot options as standard. Buying all three for Slink would push Slink to being the more expensive. In either case, the price difference is only a small fraction of the overall price of switching to mesh. There are other reasons, but most importantly, many people just prefer the look or functionality of one over the other. And there are several other competing mesh bodies that people choose over either of these two. To the OP: If you are interested in a mesh body, check out the link above to Mesh Body Addicts and perhaps their in-world location. Dig around for SL fashion blogs and see if you can find styles for the body you're interested in. Then what Eleanor said about demos. Demo, demo, demo until you have a better idea of what works for you. You might find that you're happy with just mesh hands and feet for now. For mismatched eyes (boat lights!) you'll need prim or mesh eyes because system eyes use the same texture for left and right. Some stores sell mismatches, some have colour changeable eyes that can each be set to different shades, and some just sell eyes as pairs. Usually they're not very expensive, so you could just buy two pairs and wear one of each. I get most of my eyes from 'By Snow', but there is no shortage of great eyes available.

That depends a lot on which beginner av you are weaing and what exactly the 'complete avatar' consists of. Some beginner avs have full mesh bodies which will hide any system layer-based avatars you add. You could be changing a lot of things, but it's all going on under the layer of mesh you are wearing. Does your Inventory show the new items as worn but you can't see any changes on your av, or does nothing actually happen? Look in the inventory folder for the new avatar. Anything you are wearing will be highlighted (bold text) and say '(worn)' or '(worn on <somewhere>)' after it. It'll also help if you could tell us what kind of avatar you've bought (mesh, system layers, just skin and shape?), and be sure you have unpacked it properly. Another option would be to right-click the folder for the new avatar and select 'Replace Current Outfit' rather than 'Wear', assuming you want to remove everything else on your avatar.

No-one has called Prok out an an important point: conflating copyleftism with a preference for copy/no-trans products. It sounds so convincing, but it's completely irrelevant to the argument. A copyleftist would not be happy with copy/no-trans items. Copyleftism encourages the right to freely and legally copy and distribute IP. As we all know, you can't distribute* no-trans items. Preferring (even demanding) copy/no-trans products is not copyleftist. *Yes, you can put multiple copies out anywhere you have rez permissions, but the important point is that copy/no-trans items aren't going to end up in anyone else's inventory.

THEGOATOFMENDES wrote: Forum regulars will laugh at you or get angry for asking this but the truth is - if Sansar is successful, of COURSE it will replace SL Sansar is meant to be a next gen, high end evolved concept - why bother with it if it isn't better than SL? LL wont admit it but any business with a great and a mediocre product will dump the mediocre one sooner rather than later Of course they won't say they're going to ditch SL before the new product's out...do you think they want to commit commercial suicide? The only way SL will continue beyond 2018 is if Sansar fails...and that's debatable. So many companies are getting involved in VR now that Sansar will have to be VERY strong to beat off the competition. A lot of developments until 2020 could render SL redundant. It's just the way technology works. Things change, old tech becomes obsolete, ditch it and move on... Here's the way business works. If a product remains profitable, you keep it running. Commercial suicide is to ditch something that's making money. There are times when you might not. If, for example, you believe one of your products is stealing customers from a different, more profitable product. Or you believe one product's reputation is killing a more profitable product. That's when SL might be closed in favour of Sansar. But generally, no. If you have two products that make you money, you don't kill one off just because the other is newer.

Adams Scarmon wrote: I guess women don't have this problem because there are sooooooo many more things available for women it is impossible to run into someone who looks just like you. Not in my experience, as I mentioned earlier. Particularly if you are into a specific scene or style. For instance, there's a very popular, relatively high-end latex store. When a new outfit comes out, lots of latex fans will snap it up and wear it to the next fetish dance. Sometimes I've seen a dozen people in the same outfit looking daggers at each other.

They might not even be inspecting you, or ever have met you. Given the limited number of male mesh clothes you speak of, the people 'copying' you could just be reading the same blogs, visiting the same stores and attending the same fairs as you. Something new and impressive appears and everyone buys it. I see the same thing with stores that cater to specific styles and interests in women's clothes: everyone into that scene will buy the new release soon after it appears. Not everyone is copying; they're just into the same thing.

Rufferta wrote: ... There ought to be a term for "inadvertent teleporting". ... Telebumble? Teleblunder? My normal means of inadvertent teleportation is to hit crtl-shift-h when I mean to type a capital H.

Phil Deakins wrote: Penny Patton wrote: There's a lot of people who sell copyable furniture. They do just fine. Good for them, but what they (or you) consider to be "just fine" isn't what serious business people consider to be "just fine". Barnsworth Anubis (copy/mod) and Trompe Loeil (copy/mod), two of the most popular, long-standing and successful furniture vendors I'm aware of in SL are not 'serious business people'? I could also throw in LAQ Decor (copy/mod), Neurolab (copy/mod) and Headhunter Island (copy, but no mod) as designers I frequently see represented in SL blogs, and whose furniture I see used in many places around SL. For the sake of honesty, another designer I often see mentioned, Storax Tree, does sell no-copy but my experience is that many large, successful designers do sell copiable items.

Drake1 Nightfire wrote: Qie Niangao wrote: Most folks really only want the privacy (as you said earlier) for those special times, and would rather not be that crotchety old geezer who fusses about anybody intruding on the pixels they bought and paid for with their own hard-earned L$s, goshdanggit you entitled Millennial whippersnappers! So, you really think it should be ok for random people in SL to just walk into anyones home and use what the land owner paid hard earned USD for? Seriously? What kind of twisted mentality is that? Would you leave your RL door unlocked and let anyone inside? You wouldn't freak out to find two strangers knocking boots on your bed? I would. Same rules apply to SL. The number of threads that have been started in the forums by a new user that couldn't understand why they couldn't take the furniture from a house they found scare me. Why anyone would think it is ok to use others items is beyond me. Because people have been trained by videogames to know that they are the most important person in that game. Everything in the game is there for them to open, close, sit on, rummage through, smash, or take. Even in MMORPGs, everything not in another player-character's immediate posession is (often) there to be picked through. And many, many people see SL as a game.

This has a lot of potential. I like the idea of the historical mismatch and I'm not big on roleplay within SL. I'll definitely check it out.

I'd think twice before basing your avatar on Kemono for a couple of reasons. First off, there are a limited number of outfits, skins and accessories available. A large number, I'll agree, but limited compared to either the classic avatar body, or one of the more conventional mesh bodies. It also has a very specific look. By choosing Kemono, you are limiting the way your avatar will look, and what you'll be able to buy for it. If neither of those is a problem, that's fine. It can be a great-looking av and I have one myself for certain furry avatar looks. I'm going to phrase this next part as carefully as possible, but there's still a chance someone will take it the wrong way and be offended. Certain people insist that the Kemono gives a young teen or childlike appearance. Depending on the av you want to create, where and why you want to use it, that could be a problem. And seeing as a succubus is *literally* the demonic embodiment of sexual desire, choosing an avatar that some people see as underage might just be going beyond what is acceptable.

Connie Beck wrote: ... a VIP was able to adjust her HUD without her permission or knowledge.... If it was done without her knowledge, how does she know who did it? PS: I don't want to know, I'm just asking on behalf of a friend who wishes to remain anonymous.

Lumae have a range of fantasy skins, including a deep red. Their fantasy skins used to come with matching pointed ears, but I don't know about the current range. They do have the most extensive kit of appliers I've ever seen, so they should work with almost anything. You could also try Fallen Gods, Caverna Obscura, and Trap. Sinful Needs make an animated spade-tipped tail. I've picked up dozens or free horns & wings over the years, so much so that I couldn't tell you where to actually buy them. Off the top of my head, Grendel's have some interesting wings with actual flight physics, and CoCo had some group gift mesh wings. Most hair creators will have something to suit, but I'd probably start at Emo-tions. They have some interesting fantasy styles. 'By Snow' do a huge range of non-human eyes at very reasonable prices. Death Row Designs have some clawed demon hands. eta: this is just the stuff I can think of over a couple of minutes. It probably covers about 0.5% of the range SL has to offer, so best to hit the marketplace and search. Now I think about it, Caverna Obscura sell an all-in-one-box demoness av, but I find it more fun to put together my own. Plus it's a few years old now and made of sculpts, so possibly very high in render cost.

If you like that sort of thing, this will probably appeal, too.

Phil Deakins wrote: You are really showing your age if you remember Stanley Unwin Growing molder, but no problode in my remembrains

wherorangi wrote: ...all innocent and no melty butter... What a delightfully Unwinian turn of phrase. Deep joy.

A quick overview of my thoughts on the female avatars. I had trouble wearing the outfits from the Library with the Catznip viewer, so I switched to the LL viewer and used the Choose Avatar palette (I later realised Catznip has the exact same function, but it's not something I normally use). That copied the outfits up to my Clothing folder for further experimentation. The female avatars are: Illana (vampire) Petrol Sue (post-apocalypse) Leah (science fiction) Morgan (witch) Abigail (steampunk) All the avs are default bodies with mesh clothing and accessories. As is to be expected, the skins are Moderate in terms of intimate detail (nips but no bits!). They all have baked in hairbases making them a little less useful for mixing and matching. Generally they're nice enough; not super-detailed but simple, basic skins that I'd have been happy to use as a newbie until I got something better. Shapes are shorter than the general run of Linden avatars. Proportions are OK-ish - not extreme but just feeling a little off to my eye. I've not made a detailed check but their wingspan seems a little short compared to their height. Looking at Abigail as an example, she's about 7.5 heads tall which is reasonable for a woman of that height. The shapes are all moddable. Illana (vampire): 1.75m (just under 5' 9") Petrol Sue (post-apocalypse) 1.73m (just over 5' 8") Leah (science fiction) 1.7m (about 5' 7") Abigail (steampunk) and Morgan (witch) are both 1.69m (5' 6 1/2") The clothes and accessories have some mix & match potential. For the most part, individual items have their own alphas so they can be split up. Clothing appears to be rigged but not fitted, so they'll clip on a lot of shapes. Accessories like hair and boots are rigged, wands, pets & jewellery unrigged. Everything (but the shapes) is no-mod - you can't even resize the unrigged accessories. So that bites. Detail varies over the different outfits. Some look rather plainly textured, others are higher in detail. I particularly like Petrol Sue's grungy desert boots and Leah's futuristic wedge-cut hair. The avs are all lightweight in terms of render cost. Leah is the lowest at a svelte 9180, Petrol Sue the highest but still low at 18352. What would be better IMO: More use of tattoo layers to split out detail like make-up, hairbases, scars & skin dirt. Almost everything (apart from blood on Illana's lips) is baked into the skins. A little more detail on the skins wouldn't go amiss. Moddable accessories. Even if it was just the ability to resize the non-rigged items. The option to turn AO's on & off (but thanks LL for at least providing them). I didn't do a detailed check of the AOs and how they look, how well the rigging stands up, or a detailed breakdown of the body proportions. I glanced over the male avatars and I'd say they broadly have the same pros & cons.

Can't wait to get in and try some of these out. I can usually find something I can use from the non-mesh avs... a skin for an alt, some boots, eyes, an accessory (*please* don't let them be no-mod like a lot of the last set!) or even a hairstyle. I've got a male alt with very limited inventory who could use a few new toys. I'd wear the outfits to get them copied from Library to the main inventory, then start picking them apart to see what will mix and what won't. There might be top and bottom alphas for some of the avs, or they might be one-piece outfits that can't be split. As ever, some stuff will combo or be useful alone, some of it probably won't.

ChinRey wrote: Kelli May wrote: Not going to name and shame, but I just picked up a group gift hair that was around 80,000 alone. Let me guess, was that from an old once great designer who returned recently with a new set of mesh hairs weith LOD so poor they' disappear even at medium viewing distance? I didn't recognise the name, so I can't be sure. It got deleted and I probably won't check them for new stuff, so it failed as a store gift.

acb14 wrote: so 2 persons enriched this forum by saying it is how it is 1 person talks about name change requests instead of name creation (new names) 1 person believes the 3 above are helpful and only 1 person guessed it has something to do with causing confusion or scam or griefing which makes sense but is still just a guess is there no official statement from LL about this big change? It's not a change, it's how it has always been (does that make me a third person saying 'it is how it is'? Hey ho). Even when we had two-part names, the first name (the part we could choose for ourselves) couldn't have a space in it either. It looked like it had a space, but the space was a separator inserted by the system between the first name and the surname. As far as the system is concerned, I'm firstname "Kelli", secondname "May". or username "kelli.may'. Note that they are also case insensitive as far as log-ins are concerned, but case sensitive in terms of display. I can guess at some technical reasons why. Apart from the scamming/griefing concerns, spaces are often restricted in computer data because they are used as separators/delimiters. When a system parses a string of data, it breaks it down into chunks based on certain characters - spaces, dots, dashes etc. So you don't want separator characters such as spaces in unexpected places in the data. If you're expecting LL to comment on the reason here, you're likely to be disappointed. Sometimes they post here, usually they don't.

Not going to name and shame, but I just picked up a group gift hair that was around 80,000 alone. A simple, unrigged mesh style released in the last few months. Most of the styles I've tried recently have been under 5,000. Some designers have picked up on the demand for low render cost accessories, some have yet to get the memo.

SummerHoliday69 wrote: Oh, is the Restrained Love Viewer (original RLV code) something i can install in the SL viewer? It's been a while since I used that viewer, so I don't know. I suspect that it's downloaded as an entire viewer. The link on the TPV page should have details.