[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

18 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

I doubt that the police will investigate unless real children is involved, other than that I don't think they'll try that much over pixels, would have to be a third part investigation.

I was referring more to self-investigation often being an incentive to not find any wrongdoing.

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

6 minutes ago, CaitlinParker said:

Blizzard did the same thing... then the players stared their uproar.

And Blizzard has never recovered their reputation. Granted, they have been doing scummy ***** for years since then (Diablo Immortal comes to mind), but the damage that all of that did to Blizzard is incalculable. They were once one of the most vaunted game companies in the industry. Sexual impropriety has taken down other companies or severely damaged their rep. Linden Lab does need to proceed cautiously here, given the nature of the allegations.

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

11 minutes ago, CaitlinParker said:

They're going to have to go with a neutral 3rd party to investigate this from the start.

That's a must, otherwise you have the situation like when the police investigate themselves and clear themselves of any wrongdoing.

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

45 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

Agree, And that is why I said that people should strive to get undeniable proof of evidence, instead of jumping the gun.

Allegations are just allegations until it is proven to be true and attacking people who has nothing to do with them will get you nowhere.

This is why from the start the blog post seemed suspect. It had a large volume of accusations and supposed evidence, but did not hold up to closer scrutiny. A few days after the initial post the original author added a note that it had been modified to comply with Medium's policies. I don't know what was changed between the original and ensuing post edits, but none of it felt particularly credible. My biggest issue with all of it was why it was not being reported directly to authorities and sent to LL simultaneously to address. It felt attention seeking and defamatory, not an effort to expose wrong doing. That does not mean there is nothing there, we don't know the true veracity of the claims and probably will never know. However, given the gravity of the accusations, the supporting evidence was quite lacking.

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

12 minutes ago, Dyna Mole said:

Hey!  RL height isn't on topic.  🤫

It is when it is being used to claim what is average height and how it should impact avatars.

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

20 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

All this back and forth over avatar height is a waste of time. Even in RL a child is not defined by its height because there are those who are on the tall side and those who are on the short side at any given age.  Look at the junior high school basketball players; they're much taller than I am but they are still children and I am still an adult in her 60s.

I'm just under 5' 4" in RL and nearly every woman I have ever met has been taller than me. Not too many years ago the average height of an American woman was determined to be 5' 7". It changes over time because humans change over time. I keep my SL avatar between 5'4" and 5' 7" and I still on occasion get asked if my avatar is a child when it obviously is not.

Just stop it.

I am 6'2" in RL, which I hit at the age of 11 and never grew another inch (in height ;)) . My previous RL girlfriend was 5'3" at the age of 36. Height is a waste of time in framing this discussion at all, I agree.

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

24 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Your Thick-apedia chart claims 5'4". In addition social class plays a part, with for example, students ( those 18-22 yr olds so typical of SL avatars ) being typically an inch taller on average, so that's 5'5" right there.

 

The other problem with data like that is, that it's an AVERAGE of EVERY female over 16.. So it includes for example, people who had their growth stunted due to FOOD RATIONING in WWII.

 

I went to the local grocery store this evening, and there was a group of about 12 women in there from the 18-25 ish age range, some kind of Hen Party on their way somewhere, buying booze. Every single one of them was OVER 5'7".

How do I know how tall they were? I'm 5'7" and they were ALL taller than me.

 

Then I log into SL, my 5'7" inch avatar wears a pair of 6 inch high heels, and the height meter reports my new height as 6'1", so far so good, no problems there. Then some IDIOT from the "Campaign for Real Height" shows up, and gets all up in my face about me being a "giant" because I'm more than 5'3".

 

They do this as they are acting as "apologists" for the 4'8" flat chested, narrow hipped, big headed, big eyed, pointy chinned, micro mouthed, furry footed "10 yr old Tokyo Street Corner Hooker" avatar, who claims their avatar is "over 18" with a place pic disclaimer, and states that their avatar is "obviously" based on the character of Suki-Liki, from the "well known" Jap-Anime-Shun series "Crapi-Saki No Taki" that "everyone must have seen because it's famous", and that it's perfectly acceptable t have a 10 yr old Tokyo street corner hooker avatar with paws instead of feet, because "it's Japanese Badly Drawn Comics!".

 

I really wish people would stop spamming "mis-represented survey data from RL" as an excuse for avatars that should NEVER be allowed on Adult rated regions, EVER.

 

There is a lot of crazy here that I won't touch because I am not a masochist. However, pointing out that height is not a great determining factor to use as a metric is hardly making excuses for people running around with child avatars. It is recognizing that a ridiculous broad brush serves no one and is not the root issue anyway. The rest of your full on racist and misogynistic rant deserves no response.

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

22 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

No, no. I have played with mods but none of them were even remotely of a sexual nature because for me WooHoo is more than sufficient.  I'm just saying that there are a lot of us out there that don't add mods of a sexual nature because that is not why we play. Some of us build far more than we play. Some don't build at all. Most of us play because the game can be modded, we just aren't into wild woohooing.

Hopefully that made sense. 

Rereading your original comment, I see it can be taken two ways. I thought you were saying there are people who won't play it because of adult content, not that their motivation to play was not adult content. I don't think most people are motivated to play the Sims because it can be modded to add adult content. It has never been why I play it. However, having it as an option has just made the world more complete and interesting to me. The Sims 4 is the first time I have used an adult mod. In previous versions I have always used mods and custom content to add gameplay. For me, the same applies with adult stuff now. My primary interest is still building anyway.

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

2 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

You'd be surprised at how many do not play The Sims because they can do adult stuff. Lots of us end up building far more than we actually play.

The unmodded game has the mildest of adult content, woohooing. People don’t play because that is present?

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

30 minutes ago, Rathgrith027 said:

I am not a viewer dev but have at least a face value understanding of how the server and viewer interact, with affirmations from people like Coffea, who herself is a dev on Catznip.

When you connect to Second Life, the server assigns you an 'agent'. This is the server-side presence of your avatar - all LSL scripts, server-side interactions and other affairs are handled through that agent. When you are fully logged in, you connect your viewer to that agent. The agent stays active, and is handed off between simulators during each extra-regional teleport or sim crossing, until either you lose connection to the simulator and your agent is terminated, or you manually disconnect and end the session.

The Second Life Server does broadcast *most* attachments to end users, as evidenced by if you use the aforementioned What Are They Wearing HUD or Firestorm's Area Search feature by filtering out all but attachments, and defining the username of the agent you wish to get the attachment data from.

However, and this is a bit debated because accessing it is technically a violation of the TOS by accessing hidden data and using an unauthorized TPV, is that the SL server does keep track of HUD attachments, as well as their LSL code execution, much like any other object. However this data is obfuscated from other agents and only transmitted to the agent that is operating the HUD in question.

The only legitimate way to detect a HUD someone is wearing, is to listen for any potential LSL-to-LSL communication over channels outside of the Nearby Chat channel (0) - which is the equivalent of, depending on the intensity of scripted objects in the area, the equivalent of using something like Wireshark to sniff packets at a baseball game. It's like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

As I am recalling now from the blog post, which I have not seen since it originally appeared, I think the post was referring to a certain adult pregnancy hud. In that case actually, one does not need a dodgy viewer, they need only to have the hud itself, as it broadcasts others in the area who are using it.

[Getting that feeling again :(]

On 3/16/2024 at 7:16 PM, CaitlinParker said:

I'm starting to get that feeling once again.

You know, that feeling of depression when you feel that you're still that square peg, or left out because you're not creative... you know what I mean.

I've tried to play SL Games, but I just suck at them.  Clubbing... I got bored of it really quickly.  I swear that everyone gets more out of this than I ever will 😢.  I'll be honest, I just don't know what to do anymore.  My SL family has more fun than I do... I suck at Blender... I don't know.  I just... I just don't know anymore 😢

It is funny - I am creative, and know all kinds of people in SL, but I often feel isolated. I can be on for hours and never get a single IM. Most of the time these days I just collect more and more backdrops to take pictures with. I find myself spending less and less time in SL these days. I hope it passes, but right now, SL is not really clicking for me.

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

10 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I don't see it, Cris.  The script sends a request to the simulator, "please tell me the keys of all the public attachments worn by this avatar" and the simulator sends a list back to the script, which then processes the response.    How does the viewer enter into it?

I don't know, I am not a viewer dev. I could get a definitive answer from Niran, I suppose. My point was they were referring to an LSL script. I am referring to viewer level code.

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

2 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

the reason why people play the sims, and the sims new it, was because they seen they can do adult stuff, aside from just relaxing and playing a slice of life game. 

LOL my Sims are FILTHY, If you leave them to their own devices what they get up to is amusing as hell. Also, the animations line up perfectly, unlike SL. Also, all of the content is free, unlike the premium on anything adult in SL.

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

1 minute ago, Starberry Passion said:

Yeah but no one is questioning why the article was removed, who this person is, or trying to ask for authentic proof. 2 people said The article mysteriously vanished and there were no evidence of who that guy was

and if you go to the medium website, looking for that article, it no longer exists for anyone.

Many have questioned why it was gone, and speculated who the OP was. Until now there has been no real discussion here for obvious reasons Medium did say it was removed for violating their terms of service. I imagine they also may have been contacted legally to have it removed. The post on Medium  may be gone, but it is still out there.

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

1 minute ago, Chery Amore said:

Possibly an unpopular statement .. but trying to herd in adult content could gut sl. Not just for users that like to pixel bang, content creators of nearly all types would be affected.  As well as venue owners. 

Yes, it would. That would be a minefield I don't think they will wade into. They make too much money off of users partaking in that adult content, and LL is owned by a finance company. That genie could not be put back into the bottle,

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

On 3/21/2024 at 12:19 PM, Craig Warrhol said:

I believe EA had to make significant changes when people started making adult mods for the sims. Maybe SL can learn from them.

EA has done nothing to block adult mods or content. The Sims has a very robust adult side. On the other hand, The Sims Online was a disaster for them ultimately because of sexual behavior in a game that did not even have any adult content.

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

Just now, Dorientje Woller said:

And at the end of the line, one question remains and hasn't been answered: Do we, as users, have to suffer from the misdeeds of those who have been accussed in that blogpost?

That is the million dollar question, and I fear yes, we all will suffer under new restrictions, and some communities in particular will be even more affected.

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

13 minutes ago, CaitlinParker said:

Adult content became the saving grace and a foundation of SL, yes.

However, what a few have done with certain behaviors and content over the years is still the problem that needs to be taken care of.

Yes, but you framed it as "adult content is a problem". No, it is not.  Adults do adult things, and SL allows a level of freedom most environments do not. Of course, there are some people doing things they should not be, and that needs to be addressed, not adult content in general.

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

2 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

That's a hard ask, condiering the majority judges everyone all the time by how they look.

You can't be too big, can't be too small, can't be too cute, too chubby, too fluffy, too furry, too new, too old, You can't do certain things. A lot of people, but it has been getting better, usually think a new person is a bot or a scammer. 

People are too busy trying to tell you what to do, run your second life, say what they don't like, how you should look to them and want to be the boss at all times. It's suppose to be your second life but it's everyone elses and people say "don't listen to other people and be who you are" but the truth is is that it affects a lot of people when most are doing that out of spite and or harm.

That is some of the reason why we are down to 20k to 60k users.

In the end, SL is just an extension of first life, where people do the exact same thing. In a visual space, people are going to always react to how someone presents themself, fairly or not. In RL, a lot of effort is extended trying to stop other people from doing what you don't like. Trans people and drag queens are the latest boogeyman(person?), but it repeats over and over and over. Human nature can be rather inhumane. 

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

1 minute ago, Extrude Ragu said:

inb4 they go full meta and delete our legs

Those meta avs are nightmare fuel in VR lol.

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

Just now, CaitlinParker said:

I can say the same thing with the Black Market stuff IMVU had years ago.

Somewhere in my inventory in IMVU I have an adult-ish pool table made by the illustrious Anshe.

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

3 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

Yeah, a lot of games that have adult content are very popular. Even games you think have none have it,

FFXIV protects its RPers especially ERPs, so does GTA V, so does WoW.

Every environment has adult content if you have adults. I remember being in There.com prior to SL, and the things people did with chairs and a squat animation would make you blush lol.

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

10 minutes ago, CaitlinParker said:

Adult content will always be a problem in SL.

Adult content is not a problem. Permitting certain behaviors and content is. Adult content is a foundation of SL.

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

16 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It seems to me that choosing to be, as you put it, "Puritanical" is a legitimate (used as an ADJECTIVE!) choice, just as being more sexually permissive is.

We tend to be of the view in SL that people, and landowners in particular (because Adam Smith or something) should have a pretty absolute right to determine what is allowed on their own land -- and that surely must apply to Puritans as well? I wouldn't want to go to such places, and I'm wary about their ideological attitudes, for reasons noted above -- but they should have the right to be as closed-minded as they want.

They do,  but it does not mean I don't enjoy taking the piss out of someone who clutches their pearls over language and sexuality either.

[Official Statement from Oberwolf Linden]

1 minute ago, Anna Salyx said:

That would be incorrect.  The specific command is llGetAttachedList and the documentation specifically states that "By design HUD attachment keys are not reported by this function."  I have confidence in this as fact because all script code is handled on the server side and none is handled by the viewer. When a script requests an avatars attachments , the generated list is given to the calling script to process (still server side) and any output that is returned, either to an external server or back to the users viewer itself via the various messaging options, has already been filtered by the server software. HUD specific attachments are never exposed to the world in any passive way, to the point that I cannot even get a list of my own HUDS via this command (and I sometimes really wish I could).

It is filtered by that LSL function. It does not mean it is entirely filtered in the data sent to the client. Third party viewers do have capabilities not supported specifically by LSL functions (example, the posing tool in Black Dragon that allows manipulation of the avatar). Some are entirely client side, but that does not mean the data is not somehow accessible to the viewer code.