NeoBokrug Elytis
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Posts posted by NeoBokrug Elytis
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I'm glad it's been confirmed and is being looked at. on_rez and object_rez are super vital functions in SL. I hope you can find a solution soon.
It would be nice to have RC names on server versions again. Case in point that 1/3rd to 1/2 of this thread is trying to figure out what type of region it's happening on.-
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10 hours ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:
Yes I know we already have all of that. The point I was making is that while we have all of that, we probably couldn’t achieve a AAA game and yes I will come check it out 😁
Here's a few reasons that I think we'll never be able to achieve AAA game status in SL starting with LSL:
SL allows too much "freedom". Players can and do wear anything they want, including other scripted content. As long as a player wears whatever they want to a destination -- whether or not there's any competition in your games -- there will be people who "cheat" just because they can. I would say about 15-25% of the code I write for my game HUD is to detect when things aren't "normal", and turn the HUD off or suspend the player for a short time. Initially the first thing I coded for was checking if a players speed was too fast. Limiting jump height. Then it was teleports, and adding code to allow for teleports from experiences. Then it was sitting long distances.
I made some big changes to this chunk of code in October, because the recent server rolls are changing how regions behave when avatars TP in or cross region bordres (a regression?) and it's been creating a lot of false positives. Last month I rolled another little patch in to try to account for these and other problems -- but it's still overly sensitive sometimes. Mostly on days where SL in general is performing bad. Which brings us to the next topic: SL as a service.
If you're not fighting cheating players, you're creating redundancies for when the grid has bad weather. Ever since the introduction of the Experiences KVP system, I have been migrating away from external servers to keep track of player and game data. Making an LSL call to outside of SL has the opportunity for three points of failure. 1) The region you're on. 2) Second Life's network. 3) Your servers. Keeping it all IN SL is hard work that requires a lot of pre-planning, and LSL-KVP is not nearly as robust as a php-mysql backend. But I find that the KVP system is far more reliable than outbound HTTP calls in Second Life.
Finally, and this is not LSL related -- the rendering engine for SL leaves a lot to be desired. I would like to see LL use Sansars rendering engine adapted for use in a new SL viewer.
I think good or profitable games can be made in SL, I just don't think we'll ever really see anything like AAA game content. Hell, way back when, I wrote 99.5% of the code of a game that made 1.4M USD in it's first year. Like all things it will just take a lot of effort; probably more so than any AAA game title given the limits of LSL alone, and then compounded with all of SLs quirks.
p.s. I am currently working on an MMO style raid boss fight. Should be live in a few weeks.
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On 2/17/2020 at 6:33 PM, ItHadToComeToThis said:
Like we could have NPCs, questing, level design etc and granted we would never be able to create a AAA game but, how far could we push it if a team was to get together and just go for it.
SL can do all that. For some things it's hard and requires hyper efficient LSL code with an occasional dash of external server (for npc bartering calculation), but it can be done. Come play the games in The Wastelands. I've got your quests/npcs/combat/scavenging/environmental-hazards/"seamless"-teleports. Some of our game items may be a bit dated in terms of appearance since the game is 14 years old now, but we're working on updating them.
I am eager for EEP to replace my HUD overlays for various "effects" players endure.
-- (Edit to add) --
Right now I have "daily" quests, but I have done rather complex (30m to 1h long) seasonal quests.
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I also use experiences for contract work I do, typically involving tutorials for real world professionals.
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I've been operating a game in The Wastelands for about 13 years now. In summary you run around our estate looting crates for salvage, and you can fight other people and creatures. You can use whatever you loot for other parts of the game, or to trade with other players. But it's mostly for crafting stuff. When Experiences came along I took full advantage of it.
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I use Temporary Experience Attachments for:
- Game HUDs so that I can push out updated game code without everyone having to update their inventory.
- HUD overlays for several special effects, for example: tripping out on certain purple and green mushrooms.
- Quest items and HUDs are also temporary attachments.
- External Attachments (limb and body) for visible Damage over Time effects, like fire, bleeding, radiation and poisoning.
- I use the KVP for storing persistent player data, inworld server information, information about game items, and occasionally longer quest data.
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I use teleports to:
- Move people around when they "die", teleporting them someplace safe.
- Teleport players to and from topside places to "underground" or "internal spaces". For example a fake cave entrance will TP you to a much larger cave system.
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Most impressively, I use teleports to make a homestead have 10x the area of of land by clever teleport mapping when people encountera region edge. Head to The Sand Seas and keep walking south, then south west until you're lost.
- I have used forced sits to have some of the bigger nastier creatures in The Wastelands carry you away for special seasonal quests.
Currently, I have about three distinct daily quests that people still find entertaining. They pull from a lot of random variables and require players to pay attention. I also have special seasonal quests that I host. They all heavily lean upon all aspects of Experiences. The special seasonal ones use them a lot more.
Once EEP is finalized I will be using that all the time, and replacing most if not all HUD overlay effects.
Right now I am putting the finishing touches on updating one of the nastier things people might encounter. Let's just say it's going to be leveraging everything to give people an MMO quality boss fight.
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I use Temporary Experience Attachments for:
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8 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:
but to use the debug setting could lead to loss of inventory....that doesn't sound like a very good idea.
That is not at all true.
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5 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:
This seems like it should work as long as the sending script has omniscience of all recipient scripts, and I guess that could be established dynamically among linked scripts given an elaborate enough subscription/registration protocol.
That's a bit overkill. Just remember which scripts are in which links, and you're good.
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5 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:
And maybe it's just me, but it seems aesthetically off-putting to have to add prims to improve computing efficiency.
That's where I use a transparent 1 triangle mesh shape, if I need a large system with a lot of scripts. But I strive to smash everything into one or two scripts where I can.
We met in passing once @animats at a Linden Office hour. You had mentioned that you too were also working on a Keyframe Pathfinding solution, so you piqued my interest. I'm glad I'm not the only person that found LLs Pathfinding system lacking.
As others have noted, it would be more beneficial to try to cram as much as you can into one script. Obviously things like a maze solver would probably still need their own script, that alone is rather big. However the majority of your logic flow above can probably be squished into one script. It *IS* harder to manage, but you'll benefit from a significant speedup when not needing to pass data with link messages.
My only advice to save script memory is to avoid using strings and use integers where possible. If you have the same logic blocks used over and over - declare them as a function. Avoid declaring variables if you're only going to use them once in an event, instead inline the function calls. Everything DOES get ugly trying to save memory, but that's how it be. I have worked on my own non-havok pathfinding solution as well. I have managed to fit everything you mentioned above (sans maze solver) into one script, with another single auxiliary script as a very robust llDialog menu to control tons of variables for the end user. I don't use a true maze solver, and instead use a basic logic tree. So it can be done. But that IS accounting for all the parcel flag problems and much more.
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On 11/18/2019 at 12:30 PM, animats said:
I'm already using llGetFreeMemory(). See above.
...
New LSL call: llMessageLinkedFilter(list nums, integer maxstr, integer maxid)
I specifically said llGetUsedMemory(), which is different and more accurate than llGetFreeMemory().
Also I don't think having a new llMessageLinkedFilter is a good thing. Instead why not just limit what you send with the sending script using llGetSubString(message, 0, 100)?
You can also avoid getting all 10 scripts triggered with llMessageLinked by using other prims and directing messages to specific prims, instead of LINK_SET or having all scripts in LINK_ROOT.
If you're sending llGetStaticPath over a llMesageLinked, you can use llList2List() to reduce what is returned before you send it to other scripts.
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What about llGetUsedMemory() or llScriptProfiler() ?
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I think it would be a fun gimmick if parts of it were free or super cheap. But I also think that cross-promotion and exploring in SL is important; so it may not be everyone's cup of tea. Especially since big events have a lot of avatars and regions become laggy. 😕
If designers really wanted to break up an outfit into "parts" for customers to combine into a final product, I've got them covered. I made a system for creators called "[DS] Item Combiner", it's on the marketplace.
It was originally geared more towards crafting games development in SL, but a couple prominent creators are integrating it into fun events for their brands.
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13 hours ago, Phate Shepherd said:
Whoa... wait... what? Can regular users get grid scope experience keys that don't require end users to add them to their land?
I think if you opted-in your regions and did a lot of beta testing and bug reporting for Experiences and only after everything was over, you were offered one. For me at the time, Experiences was everything I wanted. I am still a very heavy user of them to this day. Ironically I just use my Experience on just my estate.
I think I heard within the last year, that LL was considering doling out more grid-scope keys, but for the life of me I can't remember who or where I heard that.
12 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:On the plus side, I think one of my lowly land scope Experience apps would have noticed any disruption in the persistence of KVP storage, and I never saw that, so maybe whatever Neo saw was limited to grid scope.
I think you may be right, I know of one other grid-scope thing that was affected.
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On 9/28/2019 at 5:30 PM, NeoBokrug Elytis said:
There's a new problem with communication with the experience KVP is accepting changes to data, but the changes do not persist. I have a grid scope key.
This seems to not be an issue anymore.
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There's a new problem with communication with the experience KVP is accepting changes to data, but the changes do not persist. I have a grid scope key.
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YES. Thank you for this wise decision.
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1 hour ago, Oz Linden said:
I have made several comments on one of the 4+ JIRA issues relating to this. I also spent the majority of the day yesterday whittling down which functions and events aren't working. The issue is intermittent and hard to nail down as to what the primary cause is. I did notice that the "Scripts Run" stat was much better before the roll, when it had initially became a problem months ago. After the roll it's doing bad again.
I believe the core of the issue has to do with object to object communications. Possibly the listen event is broken.
Before I continue Oz: I am not attacking you personally, you're a smart dude who's helped the grid grow in profound ways over these past 16 years. I am however critical of some of the policies that (to my understanding) you're in charge of.
The average user of SL doesn't know the technicalities of SL, or even know anything about scripting. However the interactivity of scripts breathe life into SL and make SL what it is. Because of that most people can only say "It's not working". Content creators, people who write code in particular are a very VERY small percentage of SL users. Those who make comments or file JIRA reports are an even smaller percentage of that. In the past couple days there have been 4 or more JIRA issues relating to the problems we're having. I think you should take into account all of the people who are "silent" about what is happening. I myself am guilty of not reporting bugs on the JIRA, because in the past I have felt my contributions do not help or matter, and that I don't have the time to try to figure things out. I only report and comment when things are "on fire" anymore.
But -- I think you should make the call to do an emergency server rollback to working versions of the simulator code. I understand that this is a good opportunity to figure out the problem and try to fix it. But it is Friday, vast swathes of SL content isn't working and the people who run businesses, create content, and have their own customer base are having a very hard time right now. We're bearing the brunt of most of the complaints on behalf of LL. The weekend is almost here, and once 2pm PDT/SLT rolls around, there will be a lot more people on SL. Second Life has historically had a very hard time on weekends, even when there's no major issues. I suspect with the concurrency SL will have, and the issues the regions are having now, it's going amplify the issue and make a lot of people very frustrated. I am planning to cancel at least one of my game events if things aren't better.
All of my regions are on the Main server channel, at least that's what concierge can confirm. I gotta say that I don't agree with the removal of the RC candidate names on server versions. This only confuses people, and I think this past rollout is a primary example of why this is a bad idea. If people complain about being on a RC server because they think it runs worse than a normal server -- I think you just need to bear the brunt of that. Most mainland folks don't have the option of choosing what server version they're on. Keep in mind they are paying customers, so they rightfully feel entitled to a working service.
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It hasn't been brought up here, but there are a lot of problems with the latest roll concerning objects being rezzed, http services, and I believe llRegionSayTo(). The most recent bugs on the JIRA highlight a lot of the issues -- but because they're intermittent it's hard to test and nail down exactly what is going on.
A lot of SL content is affected by this, and I think you should consider rolling server versions back.
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11 minutes ago, BilleBee said:
Welp.. there goes SL, tilia will kill it just like the other games it is part of, I will never EVER give my personal information to this piece of trash EVER! 😡🤬
Just like the removal in inworld casinos and banks. Or like when LL changed region fees, once, twice, three, four times. And like the introduction of sculpts, mesh, fitmesh, bento, and animesh.
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Just now, Neural Blankes said:
Likely that is just the tip of the ice berg with this. I would love to hear Linden Lab respond to it with proof that they aren't doing exactly that. It would seem our passwords and user information are for sale to the highest bidder otherwise.
LL owns Tillia and Second Life. There are many ways to share the data between the two, as a registered money services business they have to follow PCI compliance, which means they DO NOT HAVE your login info in plain-text.
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In order to stay in compliance with regulatory requirements, if you wish to process a credit, we will need certain personal information to verify your identity, including your name, address, date of birth, and social security number (or government-issued identification if you are not a U.S. Citizen).
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As I understand, you have to provide your ID info only if you cash out from SL (Turning your L$ into your local currency). Everyone seems to be missing this point, and freaking out.
Additionally, that fee seems to only apply if your account is INACTIVE, and I assume that it only applies to fiat currencies and not L$.
Honestly this opens up a lot of doors for LL as a registered Money Services Business. They can skip paypal all together, act as a bank, and convert their own payments from any currency including crypto. LL was already pretty much fronting all the liabilities without any of the benefits of being an MSB since day one. So it really makes sense for it to be official now.
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4 hours ago, sunderezz said:
Today the owner of the region where I have my venue took down several emitters of butterflies and moths that I had asked her consider removing in mid April. They were showing a very high rate of object updates. I was stunned to see that with these gone, the sim script % increased from 30ish % to 60%ish
As I had mentioned in my previous posts in this thread, I am fairly certain the script execution time issue is related to a networking issue on LLs end. I too saw the same exact things on regions I've been able to test on. Basically the more packets per second the region is sending out, the lower the script execution is.
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School's Out, Memorial Day, whatever the reason, The Wastelands is having it's sometimes maybe annual-ish land sale!
If you ever wanted to find a home for yourself in The Wastelands, or just expand your ever growing empire here, now is the time to take advantage of this opportunity.
ONLY Monday May 27th: Buy a parcel at normal price, get *8* weeks of tier included. Don't miss out!
May 28th to June 3rd: Buy a parcel at normal price, get *6* weeks of tier included.
Our land normally comes with just 4 weeks of tier, but this special sale gives you way more time to enjoy your stay here.The Wastelands is Second Life's oldest and largest post apocalyptic themed estate and community; established way back in January of 2007. Here, you won't find clean and stylish homes, pristine and luxurious beaches, noisy dance clubs, tawdry sex palaces, or any of the glitz and glamor more common to Second Life. But in our parched deserts, rocky expanses, and rank swamps, you'll find beautifully ruined buildings, precarious shacks, and mysterious assemblages of abandoned material, most of it created by the people who live here. From hidden underground bunkers to teetering swamp huts on stilts, from burnt-out vehicles to nomad's tents, from helicopter concert stages to trap-ridden combat pits to ball courts to trade posts to working drive-in movie theaters, The Wastelands is filled with creative, detailed constructions.
As per usual because of the sale, our Free Move program will be suspended until the end of June.
All sale dates end at midnight SLT(PDT) of their respective last day.http://land.the-wastelands.org
You can find our current available parcels here, or by opening up your map in Second Life, typing in "The Wastelands", and ticking "Land Sale". -
Additionally, I forgot to mention that regions sometimes degrade in performance for no describable reason. The region had only been online a few days (Tuesday to Saturday), but by that time it got bad Case in point: My main region "The Wastelands" had only 33% scripts executed one day. It took TWO restarts to clear it back up to 100% -- but the restarts fixed it nonetheless. This happens more often than I'd like to admit on all of my regions.
Just last week I had one region drop down to 50%, and it was because someone had rezzed a collection of objects that were pounding the viewer with minor object updates; a steady stream of 0.5mb for each av in view. In total these objects also used about 1.5ms of script time (I know, a lot), but relatively speaking a small fraction of the total script time in the region. As soon as these objects were removed, UDP data to the viewer more than halved, and scripts executed jumped back up to 75-80%. That's my basis for script execution being related to a network problem.
Over a month ago I used the SALT HUD to request some mega prims for something I'm working on. At the time it seemed like it was broken, and I assumed it was because it's old. However, just two days ago I got two inventory offers for the prims I requested way back when. Now maybe all the delivery nodes were all offline, or maybe the tubes at LLs end need to be flushed out with lottery balls.
@Qie Niangao I've seen it occasionally in the dataserver() event after a restart, but that's why I usually wait a little bit to do anything. I've been pushing that timer back further and further as time goes on. However this instance of XP_ERROR_INVALID_EXPERIENCE was specifically with llRequestExperiencePermissions and it lasted for about 5 minutes before things suddenly worked in the region. What's baffling is, that the player got a game HUD from a neighboring region and walked into the problem region (where upon more checks were made) and the HUD spat out the same error. That shows that communications with experiences (and in general) is lagged until the region catches up.
I really think this is a big networking problem that's been quietly growing for years.
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Potential showstopping bug on many mainland regions. Anyone else experienced this?
in Second Life Server
Posted · Edited by NeoBokrug Elytis
I can confirm this is also happening on version Second Life Server 2020-02-26T20:56:18.537423
I operate a grid scope experience powered game, that's ironically just in my personal regions. It temp attached player HUDs. These particular HUD dispensers do not work (as well as everything else relying on object_rez in the region):
http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/The Great Fissure/141/112/69
http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/The Wastelands/43/159/75
I also use on_rez and object_rez. object_rez is not being triggered. I am using methods to make sure the objects are rezzed before communicating with them. They are being rezzed, but the parent object isn't triggering the object_rez event.
I am on a private estate and I am technically supposed to be off RC region rolls. Perhaps the issue isn't with the region itself?
p.s. Poor breedables folks...