Eio Tuqiri
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Improving our Lines of Communication with the Community
A group blog by Secondlife in General
the requrement to enable cookies and javascript in-world to view pofiles and use searchIs this true?
I found search in Viewer 2 to be just awful. In Phoenix I can still see like in 1.23, every event that is posted. In V2 it looked like they were only showing a fraction of what was actually posted. Made me wonder if they only show paid adds or something like that.
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Viewer 2.5 with Web Profiles Has Arrived
A group blog by Secondlife in General
answered my own question, don't know how to delete this entry...
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Rod, I hope you're following the "Improving our lines of communication with the community" blog. Wow, a load of people are really upset and mistrustful of LL. I believe people are posting here and there because we are passionate about Second Life and care deeply. I don't know what the business plan is, or if the company is in serious trouble financially, but seems a lot of us feel disenfranchised, and seriously so.
You must have a lot on your shoulders. I assume it could be a difficult thing to traverse between the company and it's supporters (which is what we are as users).
I wish you the very best, I imagine you're working really hard. Remember to take care of you, and thanks for being here.
Peace~ Eio
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Improving our Lines of Communication with the Community
A group blog by Secondlife in General
Let me say this as clearly and succinctly as possible:
Linden Lab has no plans to make any single viewer (2 or any other) mandatory. We don't have any plans to make any such plans.
Oz, I understand clearly what you're saying here. What I wonder is if you have plans to make other viewers less than fully useful. I don't expect LL to admit to that if it is the case, and I'm not accusing you of it, but I have to wonder, and I hope I get an answer to my question below.
My land owner and I both use Phoenix. I have never had a problem posting in SL Events listings, but now I am not able because of changes made. Here is a quote from the wiki explaining the changes, "The events team is working hard to make event listings more useful to Residents and event hosts. Therefore we are introducing a number of new features and controles."
Here's my problem, there is now a new "Allowed Ability" in the "Parcel Powers" section called "Allow Event Hosting on group land", which does not exist in the "Parcel Powers" section in my third party viewer.
Here's my question; How does adding this new ability make it "more useful" for me, or anyone else, to post events?
It has only made it impossible for some of us to post in events. So, unless there is some other explination, looks to me like this was added to drive residents to Viewer 2. It is mentioned at the bottom of the wiki "Important: Download Viewer 2.3 and make this change today! We will be enforcing this restriction (italics mine) on December 1st, 2010!"
Here's the link.
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Improving our Lines of Communication with the Community
A group blog by Secondlife in General
We're making an effort to improve how we listen in hopes that you, our customers and our fellow Second Life residents, will engage in a positive way.
Hi Oz,
Good to see you here in the conversation.
As far as the idea of "fellow Second Life residents"; I've been in SL for over three years and, aside from a few scheduled meetings or events in the first year I was here, I've never seen a Linden inworld. I love this world, but don't get the sense that anyone from LL is a fellow resident. Not only because I don't see them inworld participating in the community, but also because I don't get the feeling they are listining to their valuable user base.
If you're interested in why this resident is feeling alienated, please check out my posts on the various blogs here.
Thanks for your participation.
(added later) Just reading over the recent posts here, looking at this one of mine, I have to say, though I haven't seen Troley inworld I do think of him as a fellow resident after partaking of many of his wonderful, loving, creative tutorials.
I genuinely hope that there are Lindens who care to be involved in our co-created world, and am heartened to see your participation here.
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...There are plenty of 13-15 year olds that contribute quite a bit, and I don't think it's a good decision to cut them off.
I agree 13 to 15 year olds would have a lot to contribute. For me, it's about their safety. I would like for them, and the 16 to 19 year olds, to have an age appropriate world.
Second Life is an adult world, an experiencial world. For me, it's morally wrong to let teens in. It is a disservice to them. There's way too much adult content for someone their age (and I don't mean just the sexual content). Teens can too easily pretend to be adults and access adult relationships with adults. It is beyond inappropriate to open SL to teens.
My Second Life is ruined. Not sure what I'm going to do.
I appreciate the discussion everyone.
02/11/11 Just wanted to add that, ok, my SL isn't completely ruined, I still have friends here. But now I'm not able to post my live music and arts events from the Phoenix viewer. The teen issue is yet another decision, along with the push to facebook, the forced march of all adult content to Zindra, Viewer 2 crappy Events listings, and the list goes on...
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And Eio? Log into Viewer 2 to get yourself added to the role of event creator. It's the only place to do it. But I guarantee if you do, you'll spend hours, maybe days, getting your inventory back!
I certainly understand your frustration Laneybug! I can see you really don't mean for me to log into Viewer 2, or if you do, I appreciate the warning. I hate it as much as you and many others do. Everywhere I go, the majority of users are on Phoenix and very few are on Viewer 2. I'll qualify that by saying most places I go are filled with builders, visual and musical artists and creators, and lovers of creativity, music and art. I'll just have to do without posting in SL events for my live music performances and arts events for the time being, until all viewers but those made on the Viewer 2 model are all that work effectively in SL.
I asked about this issue (not being able to post in SL Events Listings unless you're on viewer 2) in the Phoenix user group in SL, and was told that they will be coming out with Firestorm.
Here's the link to the announcement http://phoenixviewer.blogspot.com/2010/11/what-is-firestorm-viewer.html Entitled "What is Firestorm Viewer...." Here is a quote from the article "Within the next year of so, LL will essentially be breaking all 1.23 and snowglobe based viewers with features they are rolling out in their Viewer 2 which won't work in 1.23 and snowglobe viewers."
Again I say, LL, if you don't want us to use third party viewers, be straight with us and just ban them. This seems to me like a backhanded way to go about it, allowing me to use third party viewers, but then making moves to make these viewers less than effective in navagating SL.
Does LL think this is the way to create good customer relations and gain the support of customers, or am I a resident/customer they are happy to alienate?
Rodvik, please work on honest communication from LL to it's customers, Second Life residents.
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Improving our Lines of Communication with the Community
A group blog by Secondlife in General
Amanda, With respect, I'd like to believe that LL wants to be "Improveing the lines of communication with the community" but I've lost faith in LL. I appreciate this blog and will be watching in hopes that LL begins to show it does care about the residents of Second Life.
TRUST
Case in point; In this wiki http://wiki.secondlife.com/Linden_Lab_Official:Events it is stated that "The events team is working hard to make events listings more useful to Residents and events hosts."
As far as I can tell, what has changed is that I can't be on a third party viewer and post in SL Events. How does that "make events listings more useful" to me? I use Phoenix, as does my sim owner. And how does that make me believe that LL cares about communication with residents? If you want us to only use your viewer, then make it so, and deal with the consequences. Double-speak only serves to make me lose trust.
As you can see from posts here, many residents/customers have lost trust in LL.
FACEBOOK
I agree with many others here. Facebook, the best place to find out what's going on in SL? Really? And your later statement didn't do much to make your first comment sound any different.
As has been stated. SL is SL. Facebook is facebook. Fine if you want to make use of facebook and twitter, but please don't try to direct me there for things SL.
CUSTOMER INPUT
Your comment; "As customers, your satisfaction and input is critical to the success of Second Life."
Yes, we are customers, and income is essential to LL in order to be a viable company. But remember, we are residents, and we love this world we have created together with LL. So, I would say this back to you, "As residents, our satisfaction and input IS critical to the success of Second Life." Many of us are not satisfied, and do not believe our input is being heard by LL. I've wondered if LL is aiming to gain some market segment and so, willing to let go of another.
I hope you are truly listening. I hope that LL will work more on communicating honestly with its resident/customers.
My best to you Amanda, thanks for the blog, I give you my support in working toward better communication, starting with my honest feedback.
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I'm posting here, because I've lost faith in LL, and I do have faith in you Rod. I don't expect you to answer this personally, but I assume you will eventually read it.
This is about posting in SL Events listings. I used to have no problem posting, but then LL changed the procedure. Here is the link to the new events posting rules; http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Events.
I asked my land owner to create the role title for me of "event host", which was done, but under Allowed Abilities/Parcel Powers there is no selection for Allow Event Hosting on Event Land. My land owner and I both use Phoenix.
I'm so frustrated. I can no longer post an event in SL Events.
At the beginning of the wiki page, this is written; "The events team is working hard to make events listings more useful to Residents and event hosts. Therefore we are introducing a number of new features and controls. To insure that hosts can continue to post great events without interruption, we wanted to insure you know about upcoming changes."
Let me say in response, LOL. I had no problem posting events previously, now I can't post an event at all.
I'm pissed. "The events team is working hard to make events listings more useful to Residents and event hosts." ? I don't think so. Looks to me like LL is trying to make me stop using a third party viewer. This will NOT make me go back to viewer2, but only serve to alienate me more from Second Life.
Rod, I'm trying to hang in. This is just another in the long list of things LL has done that frustrate me. If LL wants us to only use their viewer, then be up front and tell us, rather than making these changes and using double-speak to try to make me think this change is in my best interest. What has this change done to insure that I "can continue to post great events without interruption"? What it has done is to insure that I am not able to post events unless I'm on viewer 2.
I notice at the bottom of the wiki page; "Important: Download viewer 2.3, and make this change today."
Anyone else pissed about this?
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Very good to hear from you again, Rodvik, we really do appreciate your continued attention. You'll find us extremely patient if we think we're being listened to. The frustration here and in other blogs took years to accumulate.
However we understand that you inherited what is, in some respects, a mess, and I think I can speak for the majority in saying that we're more than happy to give you a chance and work with you. Thank you so much for your efforts.
You do speak for me here, Mike. I'm just so happy to think that you care about the whole SL community, Rodvik. Take your time and enjoy getting your feet wet. I hope you continue to travel the grid during your time here, and talk with us.
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Rod, if you want to see what some SL residents are experiencing, then click on the link to this thread in general discussion.
http://blogs.secondlife.com/thread/59372?start=0&tstart=0
This is an example, of what happens, to SL residents. Dismal, or non-existent support, and discussing that fact is forbidden. The people in that thread are long-time residents, content creators, and land owners. They are SL customers.
When I logged in to see see this thread, I got this message. "It appears you're not allowed to view what you requested. You might contact your administrator if you think this is a mistake."
My administrator? I'm not sure what this was about, but I'm interested in Celestiall's post, and would like to see the thread, which she said was in general discussion. Wonder what's going on here?
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We are working on a complete overhaul of the privacy settings that will allow users to have more control over their privacy."
Hello again Rod and everyone,
I'm heartened to see you so involved already Rod, thanks for this blog and for checking back in and commenting.
As you can see here, many of us feel we aren't being heard by LL. Just wanted to say that I don't want more control over my privacy, I want total control. Please make sure there is an OPT-IN rather than an Opt-out function concerning privacy issues. Opt-out is backhanded in my view.
From most of the profiles I've seen, and almost all the residents I've talked with in SL, it seems clear to me that many of us are here for a private experience. "Like" buttons and facebook-like features are the opposite of what we come to SL for. Trying to be all things to all people may lose LL as many customers as it wins, and seems to already be alienating their valuable creator base.
Thanks for listening and being involved in the conversation!
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All you need is a LL staff person to randomly drop into those areas with an alt, identify who is beind rude, and then have them punished appropriately. You don't need someone there full time, just often enough, and unpredictably enough to scare away the idiots. The unpredictable part is important, the rude people should have no idea who might be a Linden alt, and when they might show up.
There is more than just rude behavior going on in noob areas. Here's my noob story; I was roaming around a welcome area when a male avatar jumped on my head, sat on my shoulders, his crotch in my face and pumped his body up and down. I had never been in a 3D world, I didn't know how to get out of there fast, so I was subjected to this until I finally got away from him. It got my adrenaline going, my heart racing I felt anxious and angry. Not a good first experience for someone coming to a new world.
My view is that no one should have to go through griefing, yes it happens, but noob areas (where griefers can do the most damage to individuals with little awareness of how SL works) should be protected.
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Again, Welcome Rod!
Good to have new blood. Enjoyed your post, and hope you enjoy your time with us. I'm looking forward to seeing what you get up to here in SL.
Thanks for joining our community.
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it ISN'T twitter, or facebook, or myspace.
Please don't try to make it a social networking site. It's a creative world. It's a place most people choose not to reveal much, if anything, about their so called RL selves.
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I don't approach Second Life as a MMORPG (massively multiplayer online role-playing game). It's a real world, I'm real when I'm within it, I deal with real people, and we don't confine ourselves to role play. I run my business and earn real money. I make real friends.
If I may speak for what I believe to be a majority of SL residents, it is our fervent hope that Mr. Humble, and Linden Labs in general, would not take such a limiting view of Second Life.
Well said Mike.
I've made the point in this forum that SL is not a game. It is for some, and I don't have a problem with that. Certainly we all get to perceive and experience SL as we choose.
My life is real, SL is a part of that life.
For me and my friends here, most of whom are RL/SL artists (and I'm a RL/SL live performing musician) SL is a place to create, do business and hang out with friends. I'm able to converse and collaborate with artists from places on the planet I will never travel, people I likely would not have met had I not come to Second Life.
I don't role play. I'm not interested in SL being a game in the sense of goals to meet, levels to achieve or competition with others to win. I'm also not interested in it being a game in the sense that it doesn't matter how I behave or treat others because it's not "real".
Collectively, many of us have problems with LL. I'm just waiting to see if it keeps going down the tubes, and am actively exploring other options.
After the viewer 2 and allowing teens in debacles, I wonder...
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The second thing i ask is you re-evaluate Linden decission to allow children in Second Life.
thank you.
Another point I STRONGLY echo. Thanks MilosZ for making it here.
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Welcome Rod.
I echo two things said here many times already; I hope you listen to residents, and seriously take into consideration what we want this world to be.
This is a world, not a game.
I hope you enjoy your time with us!
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Being a Teen Second Life resident for two years now (I was on a previous account that has been banned for an unknown reason) I have seen all there is to see on the Teen Grid. All of the adults being scared about profanity and nude avatars can just calm down. If you spend one hour on the Teen grid you will see adult beds, adult toys, and nude avatars galore. It's not something we aren't used to. Think we all are perfect little innocent children that cry at the sight of a butt cheek? No. We don't care. You should all just calm down about that subject, we see all of the things you are scared about daily.
This post makes one point many of us adults have been making; If LL already does a poor job of shielding teens from adult content on the Teen Grid, well, just imagine what they won't be shielded from on the main grid. If LL didn't police the Teen Grid very well I don't see how they're going to make the main grid content appropriate for underage residents.
If they end up making the whole of SL PG in order to accomodate teens, well, that's going to make a LOT of existing residents who have enjoyed and supported SL very unhappy.
I understand there are probably plenty of teens who don't have a problem with experiencing adult content in SL (where are their parents?), but we responsible adults do care and have a problem with it. Not only for the safety (read predator and abuser action here) of underage residents, but also because now we are going to have to be aware that anyone we meet acting as an adult may actually be a teen.
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"this one has been posted before but I add it again just to make sure LL sees MANY adults are concerned about this. Will there be something in the profiles that tells me as an adult that I am talking to a kid?"
I'm going to make my point again here, not for LL because, seems to me they've already made their decision and I don't know if they care what we have to say or not, but I make it for the SL adult community, to continue our conversation here;
Mature, caring adults will find it helpful to know who the "kids" are so they may act appropriately, but abusers and predators will LOVE knowing which are the children!
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"But I do agree with the identification of letting adults know that they are talking to a teen. This will prevent many potential headaches."
I thought the same thing at first, my second thought was, "letting adults know that they are talking to a teen" will put a beacon on the head of teens for any abuser or predator to see.
This is only one of many problems. There is no safe way to allow teens into an adult world.
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I am also a concerned adult, and I hope SL does address our concerns. Here are mine.
1. I'd like to know if I'm communicating with someone who is underage. That brings up two problems -
a. I'd like to see their age, but don't want my age shown.
b.. If their age is shown, I'm sure there are those in SL (as there are pretty much anywhere) who would take advantage, abuse or otherwise choose to harm or exploit them, therefore it seems that for their safety, their age should not be shown.
2. I like the freedom of being in a place where children aren't allowed. SL has already cracked down on art that displays nudity, what is our creative world going to become when we are required to create and behave in a way that is acceptable for children?
I would like for everyone to have the chance to experience Second Life, but my reaction at this time is that mixing underage people with adults may bring in more people, but as a consequence of those people being underage it may cause just as many to seek out a new world where adults can create and behave as they like without being concerned for how they will affect children.
On first look, this doesn't seem to be such a good idea for the children or the adults.
And I guess I can express my concerns all I want, doesn't seem to me it will have much affect since they're letting children in.
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Embark on a Quest in Linden Realms: Collect Crystals, Earn Linden Dollars and Have a Blast!
in Featured News
A group blog by Secondlife in General
Posted
I'll have to agree with a number of people here who expressed a desire for Linden Lab to fix "ancient bugs" before creating new games.
Many of us are here, not for a social network or gaming experience, but because Second Life is just that, a second life. It's a virtual world where we can create our own experience, and most of us don't want to be known as our RL selves, and I'd guess many if not most don't even know they have a profile online at my.secondlife.com, which was created for them without their consent.
Linden Realms would be fine with me (not that I have any interest in it, but there are all kinds of people here with all kinds of interests) but please put time and money into fixing what has been broken for so long before you create new things with new bugs that will need to be fixed.