Luna Bliss

Arielle, you are a Canadian and don't have to worry about getting needed health care in the midst of this pandemic -- if you're going to participate in this discussion you need to display some empathy. For Americans, as of one year ago there were over 30 million Americans without health insurance and the means to treat a coronavirus infection should they become ill. https://www.statista.com/statistics/200955/americans-without-health-insurance/#:~:text=In the first half of 2019%2C approximately 30.9,in the United States had no health insurance. No doubt, many more are now without care in 2020 as many lost their jobs of late and the health insurance which accompanied it. And on top of this we are set for 20 million more with health insurance under the ACA to lose their insurance as well. Plus millions could lose health insurance due to having a pre-existing condition, protected now under Obamacare (ACA). We need the protection of a public option for health insurance, and fortunately we have a party willing to achieve this goal.

This isn't about me and which candidate I dislike. It's about the millions who will lose health insurance or not have pre-existing condition protections in the midst of a coronavirus crisis when even more are going to need health care. Many will die because of it. The Supreme Court is scheduled to hear oral arguments Nov. 10 in a case seeking to overturn the law that brought insurance coverage to millions of Americans. Look it up. https://www.npr.org/2020/10/05/919704165/the-election-and-a-fresh-obamacare-challenge-loom-over-new-supreme-court-term

I think it's more likely that there are, but the people in power just aren't creative or motivated enough to put them into working order. The issue isn't whether people are creative or motivated enough to retrofit work environments so those who are disabled can then work -- the issue is cost. It would take massive amounts of funds to create environments so those who are physically or mentally disabled could work within them, tailoring conditions to the needs of each individual under the supervision of psychologists and physicians. It's cheaper just to pay the SSI recipient 800 usd per month and forget about them. There actually are a few programs that assist disabled people so they can work, but they are more motivated by charity so as to give those who have trouble working in society a sense of independence and purpose, as they seldom (if ever) turn a profit for the business owner unless subsidized by the government. I can tell you which party does funnel more money into these types of programs to help the "weak" and the "losers" though, and it isn't the Trumpie party you voted for.

That's not what I wrote. I wrote "I know people". Specific people. Specific people aren't "anyone on SSDI". Those are two completely different statements. I'm glad you've changed your thinking and don't believe anymore that most people who receive disability are liars and cheats. Years ago when this came up in a debate you brought up this same cheating person you know, using him as proof that those needing assistance are liars. It was within the discussion of how you believed the government wants to control us and take away our liberty by not allowing businesses to cite religious freedom rights as an excuse to discriminate. In this Covid crisis the lower classes need to stick together and not allow ourselves to be divided and conquered by those who want to squeeze us more and more to continue enjoying their massive profits. If you read History you may be aware of one of the most notorious examples of this tactic -- the "welfare queen" used by Reagan to get the working class riled up about those they imagine are taking away their money via excessive taxation to assist them, thereby ignoring the real reason their wages were continuing to slide down. The tactic continues to this day -- attempting to make those who are seeing their wages drop blame those in society less fortunate or relegated to the bottom class -- POC and the disabled.

Many people are going to die from indirect damage caused by coronavirus infections, possibly many years past the time they battled and overcame their initial assault, as it can damage many organs. There are few experiences more horrible than not being able to be with or support a loved one in the process of dying, or to be a person dying alone without the support of loved ones. Of course this is a scenario playing out today when a hospital deems it necessary to keep non-ill family members safe when a contagious family member is initially battling a Covid infection. Before LGBTQ citizens enjoyed marriage rights this was their plight -- loved ones dying without the support of their partner -- as hospitals frequently only allowed legal 'family' into a dying person's room and a gay person's partner was viewed as no more important than a casual friend. In other cases family members did not want the gay partner in the room due to their prejudice -- despite the dying person's wishes. And now, because of a conservative court becoming even more conservative as we speak, we are moving toward this horrific scenario again. Here is the attitude we're seeing now with the opinion of two conservative judges who are placing religious liberty rights above all others: ~~ "The opinion lays down a marker that at least some of the justices already view the court's recognition of a constitutional right to same-sex marriage as an affront to religious liberty, and so may well use the latter to scale back the former in future cases," Vladeck said. "Especially at this moment in time, with major religious liberty cases already in the pipeline and in the middle of a contentious confirmation fight the result of which could move the court sharply to the right on these issues, it's a telling -- and ominous -- message for the court's two longest-serving conservatives to send," he added. ~~ https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/supreme-court-justices-thomas-and-alito-lash-out-at-same-sex-marriage-decision/ar-BB19ISw5?ocid=uxbndlbing

I just use a photo of Trump. In these times of Covid, where if elected again his plan is to throw millions off health insurance and remove pre-existing condition protections in his gunning for the dismantling of Obamacare, it suffices. Thousands will die as a result. Due to this Covid crisis many more are losing their jobs, and the health insurance connected to it. Fortunately, the Biden plan will cover everyone, even the jobless, when the public option is chosen within his plan: https://joebiden.com/healthcare/#

Asshats need to apologize. Especially in times of Covid where many more will become disabled and fight for help.

Now the White House press secretary is testing positive for Covid as well as 2 of her deputies. The Rose Garden Massacre where Barrett was nominated keeps on giving. The White House is a petri dish. I have hope that they'll all start wearing masks, but I won't hold my breath.

So true, in fact a large percentage of those with disabilities don't look like they're disabled at all. And we're only going to encounter more of this as the Covid crisis evolves, causing ongoing disability we both can't see and no doubt many doctors won't believe even exists. Such a blame-y society we live in, filled with those who are frustrated and all too ready to 'punch down' at the most vulnerable instead of 'punch up' to the wealthiest in society running off with most of the money and perpetuating these crappy jobs at the bottom too many must endure.

I'd have used the photo of an ancient cro-magnon person who lacked the frontal lobe capacity of the brain many modern people exhibit instead of the Trump photo, but I think even they had more compassion for their own kind. It's time you stopped generalizing and stereotyping those who are disabled and receiving support -- you're calling them cheats and liars for receiving funds needed to live at a bare subsistence level, and having zero sympathy for the conditions which befell them through no fault of their own. I'd write off your statement as one given by someone frustrated about their job and expressing fears of contracting Covid, but we've had this debate before where you put forth your stupid perceptions regarding those receiving disability payments -- you believe they don't deserve support and are taking advantage of the rest of society. I don't question your assertion that you know someone who cheats society through receiving disability payments -- they do exist -- but like the typical conservative you are unable to see beyond your own nose, have empathy for others you haven't personally experienced, and discover the facts. The facts -- from my experience in Social Work I see that most people on disability NEED and deserve to be AND it's damn hard to even qualify for disability. Quite a few people in SL and on this forum survive on disability payments, and you need to apologize.

Better keep a close eye on hubbie and the kids....if you start to notice a green or berry-red hue it's time to dial it back! 😉

It's a very complex topic -- what causes poverty. If I could simplify the cause though I'd say it's that those in power (the capital class) in society will squeeze as much as they can from those who have less power (the labor class). We have some laws to protect the labor class and limit the powers of the capital class but the labor class is very much getting the short end of the stick in the US. The above is a systemic view, but I think you, Arielle, only see the individual in this analysis and tend to blame the individual. I glean this from so many of the discussions we've had. I don't discount that the individual plays a part in the problem, but am only pointing out that the system we live in should receive much more blame than they generally do under a conservative mindset -- we need to seek more solutions to poverty in the conditions surrounding the individual.

As far as this...do you have a link? I read Biden does not believe in Medicare for all. So what then? Plus, people can still get Obamacare but it's not free and it's gotten pricey now. Also, I've not heard of any people being turned away from ER's if they have coronavirus. So what's going on with the poor aren't being treated for coronavirus in your posts? Biden supports the public option for health care -- this means everyone can be covered if they choose the public option -- even the poorest. Private insurance will still be available for those who want it. Go to Biden's website to see his platform. Regarding Obamacare, not true ...not all people can get Obamacare...your income has to fall within certain parameters. You can earn too much to qualify for Medicaid (health care for the poorest) yet not earn enough to qualify for Obamacare. In other words, there's always been a big hole that the working poor fall into. If you do qualify for the ACA however, the cost is tied to your income so that a low-earner will pay much less. But the Repubs want to do away with Obamacare (ACA) altogether so I suppose all this doesn't matter if Trump is elected again. ER myth -- it does not substitute for health care -- it's only for emergencies. If you're dying, yeah, the ER has to treat you. But people with health conditions including Covid will need other types of care that the ER does not cover -- the effects of Covid for some can be extensive as it affects all organs. There are a few charities that can help some, but not for something like a liver transplant or other costly procedures, but even this depends on where you live (more likely to get help in a city vs a rural area). Unless paying out of pocket you must have health insurance in order to be assured of care in the US. For a woman from age 40 to age 65 adequate health insurance can be anywhere from $800usd plus to over $1300usd monthly -- and even when paying this much you often pay for deductibles and copays!

I don't know about this specific situation, but from my observation in Social Work whenever Repubs came into power many programs that were benefitting the poor were eliminated or cut. Programs like Head Start where poor POC kids could start receiving assistance early to hopefully have a better life. And other kinds of assistance for poor mothers (therapy, food assistance). Once the Dems were in power again the programs opened up again for the poor. Most of my experience is in direct help we give to the poor via various Social Work programs.

You first...lol.

I think @Arielle Popstaryou need to read below the headlines, the fights between the Dems and Repubs as they try to have the power. Deeper into the philosophies underneath the parties. It's just a fact....as the parties stand today the Repubs stand for funneling more money to the wealthy. The Dems stand for funneling some of that money to the poorer in our country -- however......they haven't done a good job of this as they became neo-liberal. Still, they do manage to throw a few more bones to the poor, and they do stand for health care for all in this election. Since thousands die due to lack of health care, for this reason and a few others, my vote will go to them.

There is a cost to Universal health care and it would appear that so far, The usa is not willing to pay for that. It's a democratic country isn't it, so safe to assume that it represents the majority position whether the country is being led by republicans or democrats? I don't think it is the majority position -- it's the position of those who managed to be in power and set the rules. We need to go to the root of the philosophy of those in power -- they see being poor as a moral failing -- as a failure to to pull up those bootstraps. Many of them actually believe in a kind of social Darwinism or survival of the fittest where they deem it okay to let the weak die off. I believe that how we treat the poor shows the value of our society, and that at this point in time we actually have the money to provide for the poor but instead funnel that money to the wealthiest because we over-value individualism and see limiting their money as taking away freedom. But what about freedom for the poor?

The issue is that if you don't like the system, move to a place where they have the nirvana you seek. The constant complaining only stresses you and everyone around you out to the point they will NEED healthcare. People are dying due to lack of health care and you are berating me for "complaining" about it? What is wrong with you? It's not some sort of "nirvana" to insist that we allow all US citizens to have access to health care like they do in other countries....JC

The issue is that if you don't like the system, move to a place where they have the nirvana you seek. The constant complaining only stresses you and everyone around you out to the point they will NEED healthcare. Debate Fail

While I could agree that certain members of society should receive preferential treatment based on their importance to the smooth functioning of society there are MANY citizens that could fit into this category who don't receive preferential treatment. So why preferential treatment only for themselves? But to the main issue that bothers me -- it's very hypocritical to pass laws which give your own group (governmental employees) the greatest health insurance in the world while voting to deny health insurance to millions of Americans. I think we can see here the goal is simply to take care of themselves. But then, I think this is the motto of the Republican party -- "we take care of ourselves only".

I think you are dreaming imagining there is no favoritism in those countries that have universal healthcare. Oh sure there is favoritism in all countries as the wealthy always have the option of buying additional health insurance outside the state-sponsored or single-payer system that covers all citizens. The issue is -- and this is very important -- nobody goes without health care in these other countries as they do in the US, because nobody is denied care if they can't afford to pay. But millions in the US don't have health insurance, and if the Republicans have their way we're getting ready to add many more to the roles.

Experimental therapies, not yet approved by the FDA, are sometimes allowed even though they haven't been thoroughly vetted -- it's called "compassionate use" or "expanded access" and applies to one of his treatments (not the drug you referred to). Usually approval takes some time, if approved at all. He was able to be treated within a period of hours. https://www.local10.com/news/local/2020/10/03/watch-trump-releases-twitter-video-shortly-before-leaving-for-hospital/ https://www.bing.com/search?q=compassionate+use&form=QBLH&sp=-1&ghc=1&pq=compassionate+use&sc=8-17&qs=n&sk=&cvid=00C2F6461EB7423A99DCC01C9F6C3116 To the larger point though, presidents and all our members of government (along with wealthy citizens) always receive far better health care than much of the rest of society. In the unfair healthy system we have in the US (compared to other countries that treat everyone irregardless of ability to pay) it's often a matter of how much power or money you have and what strings you can pull that determines the treatment you receive.

Yeah, no doubt he'll emerge with his usual rhetoric, downplaying the seriousness of the virus due to his speedy recovery, and his delusional followers will continue to believe mask-wearing is unnecessary. Of course he won't take into account his speedy recovery relates to the exceptional medical treatment he received with a 10 person team and cutting edge therapies that are denied to those who aren't wealthy. He has no concern for us, as you say, "peasants" -- those millions already thrown off health insurance in the middle of a pandemic as they lost their jobs providing that health insurance, nor those he tries to prevent from keeping health care as he continues with his assault on the Affordable Care Act due to be voted on in November with his new conservative judges. The destruction of the ACA would throw 20 million off health insurance as well as make millions more ineligible due to having pre-existing conditions, protected now with the ACA. 30,000 Americans die each year due to lack of affordable health care -- how many more will die when we add in the Covid complications? I won't even go into the thousands he allowed to die due to his inept handling of the Covid crisis in the US. I wish no person death, but I'm sure not going to feel concerned about him -- he never has cared about us.

lololo That wasn't a debate...not sure what it was exactly...guess you could just call it a Covid-spreader-event..