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Prokofy Neva

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Posts posted by Prokofy Neva

  1. Yes, I'm aware that the top vendor seller in SL has this function, and likely others do. While the MP sometimes returns this error, I think the MP also has an option to ban someone from a purchase.

    I find it a pernicious and small-minded feature that turns SL into a medieval fair based on class and connection, far from an open society, and far from a viable metaverse incubator. Instead, it becomes something like a bazaar in the khanate of Kokand in the 19th century where  Alisher would not sell to Bahadur and turned his back to him and spat on the ground because their families were in a blood feud for a century. 

    I don't think there could ever be a valid reason to do this in SL in modern life. Imagine if Amazon behaved like Twitter and banned people based on their views.

    What is really a good reason for doing this? I don't see any.

    For one, if someone is copybotting your product, you need to file an AR and a DMCA notice and get the avatar completely removed from SL, not just blocked from your purchases.

    If someone griefs your store with particles, spam, harassment etc then that's a larger problem that needs a ban of that avatar, not just a block of a purchase.

    If you don't like what someone says on the forums, or inworld, or you don't like their real life or virtual life persona or views or lifestyle, of course you are free to do so. And many think that freedom of expression should extend both to vendor blocks and to boycotts. But cutting off commerce like this only hurts you in the end, not your target.

    I seldom join any boycott because they don't work and they sometimes punish the wrong people.

    I personally have expelled a paying tenant only about 3 times in 17 years, twice because the person was just yet another obvious griefer alt trying to annoy by attempting to get resident powers, and once because someone who constantly heckled me on the forums and was also late with their rent repeatedly just didn't seem to be a candidate to go on enjoying my cheap rentals. 

    There are many, many people and lifestyles and forums divas I don't like in SL, but I believe in an open and free economy. I will go on purchasing their  products at events and at their stores regardless of their behaviour because they may make a decent product and have design and technical skills that should be appreciated and supported by a purchase. It's a way of making the world a viable and open one for many kinds of people, which it has to be in order to grow.

    Anyone can come and buy my products or rent from me if they obey the TOS and my simple rules i.e. not building builds over two stories which is reasonable and followed by many. I can't see any advantage in blocking purchases in an economy that struggles enough these days.

    Yet I find that certain merchants, particularly the most popular and mass selling who could afford not to live in this petty monoverse are the worst culprits for this practice of ideological or speech bans.

    And I find one that is willing to block and ban a loyal customer inworld and on social media despite numerous purchases and glowing reviews, merely for filing a ticket and saying a product didn't work. This merchant kept denying that this was possible, when shown screen shot evidence and online evidence that solutions offered were not viable. In the end, this merchant offered to give the name of their scripter to contact, and that seemed to have politely ended the episode, when suddenly they reversed and put in this ban as making the customer go away instead of fixing the technical problem.

    I think the large merchants are well served by hiring store clerks and CSRs who do this admittedly boring and difficult work so that they can keep their precious artistic and thin-skinned personas focused on making their delightful products.

    Of course, it's kind of silly because to put in these bans, because even if they IP ban you and your alts from their store (using illegal products still for sale on the MP), even if they identify you and all your alts to ban from their vendor (imagine wasting the time on that!), you can always find someone else to buy something and place it on your property set to your group. So it's kind of pointless.



    • Like 2
  2. On 6/11/2021 at 1:56 AM, Jaylinbridges said:

    I was of course talking about the renter, the OP here counting her Land Impact.  Not the landlord.  So the rest of your comment to me was totally irrelevant.  You still like to talk down to people here.  Your choice. 😐

    I said: "Yes, it's not  clear what the OP's real LI was.  But the landlord should not use prims, when she is seeing LI in her list, if that was the case.  Counting LI can be tricky if you miss a linkset, when clicking on your creations. " 

    The landlord would not click on the OP's creations, since it was the OP's creations. I should have moved the last sentence to the middle, so you would not think I was speaking about the landlord clicking on creations - English is my first language, but my thoughts can run out of order.


    I sent the OP a free prim counter. Did you?

    Don't assume you are the only one getting an answer in a thread.

    No one would ever have to push back on the forums unless there was *first* an aggressive or arrogant post to start with. So when you get your thoughts back in order, think about that.

    • Confused 1
  3. On 6/11/2021 at 12:18 PM, Luna Bliss said:

    We seriously need to tackle climate change. I'm relieved to discover brilliant governmental officials in The U.S. who will lead the way:


    * But on a serious note, are you worried about climate change? And do you believe there is a solution?

    Climate change (they stopped calling it "global warming") is indeed real. At the UN, I would see how certain island nations were literally in danger of disappearing into the sea and suffering all kinds of loss of livelihoods and homes. In my own home on the East River, I saw how first one hurricane, then another undermined it, and then Hurricane Sandy forced us out of our homes for weeks. Some of us had to come back and live in those dark rat-infested towers when the waters receded because the relatives' homes we fled to were also inundated. There were literally people who tried to drive their way out on the FDR drive who swam up to the plaza of our building which is technically on the third floor above street level. My son, who remained behind when we all fled because he thought it was a fascinating photo opp, helped pull them out and find them dry clothes and soup on a bunsen burner. To this day, they are struggling with huge sinkholes and now a coastal reclamation project which has paralyzed all the nice walks we used to take for miles. It's real, it's a thing.

    The question is how you respond, and whether you do this with hysterical far leftist politics that are more about anti-capitalism and anti-freedom than they really are about actually saving the earth and mitigating climate change. And communities don't always have choices given the huge cost. For example, there was a tree-hugging version of saving our East River which involved a laborious shoring up with landfills of a certain soil, planting hearty plants that can hold the soil, etc. but this would take years and was quite expensive in fact. So if they resort to other quicker, industrial solutions using plastic or whatever, puritans get upset, but then no one wants to be flooded out of their homes for weeks on end. FEMA does not always come to the rescue. 

    It's also the case that the leftist environmental movements always focus on the West, where they live and are free to act, and where they feel everything is the worst, and completely ignore Russia, China or even India or Brazil where in fact environmentalists can be persecuted and where authoritarians can completely ruin the environment even as they sign every international treaty the US won't sign because it's more conscious of the rule of law and really following it. The West has reduced pollution significantly with all kinds of movements and laws, and even Trump refusing to sign the climate treaty couldn't stop that trend. Meanwhile, the communist and other authoritarian post-communist and right-wing governments don't make this progress and feel no pressure from Western movements.

    A lot of people are bothered by Greta and her histrionics but she actually didn't bother me. Let her get out her message, let the adults who manipulated her have a conscience, but basically, the message is one that isn't wrong and might have an effect.

    I will say that the organization that took her up in the US called 350 has been an utter disappointment, even a fraud. I originally signed up for it and went on their activist phone calls thinking, "Maybe here they will tell you something concrete to do." This group was heavy on pretty web sites and fundraising and slight on practical advice, not even telling you to recycle or shower less or something. They had nothing. The world could only be saved by overthrowing governments. That's your first clue something is wrong. Eventually I saw this group utterly switch over to flogging certain political candidates and not even bothering with the green message -- and actually violating their 501-c-3 status by doing so, although likely no one will bother to question them for fear of cancellation.

    I'm pretty jaded at all the leftists over the years who took up this cause. I guess my biggest life disappointment was in Petra Kelly, whom I met a number of times and whom I appreciated for her willingness to question Western as well as Soviet missiles. She and her partner died by suicide.

    There is something every single person can do even at their individual level and if a movement can't tell you that and be reasonable about it, beware.

    A movement that is brittle and rigid in ideology does not succeed, as we have seen with all this AOC nonsense about "green jobs". There has to be willingness to work through the democratic process and make compromises.

  4. On 3/23/2021 at 10:44 AM, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

    I'm curious as this discussion came up recently and it got me to thinking.  Do you know of anyone that has actually faked their avatar's RL death for whatever reason instead of just creating an alt and having the main avatar just disappear and not log in?  Maybe it was because they got way too involved with someone in RL and needed to make sure they didn't come looking for them or for some other reason.  I supposed if they really wanted people to think they were actually dead then they would cut ties with everyone but well...some people aren't good at keeping secrets. LOL

    A long time ago in another game I knew of a girl who said she had cancer and somehow got people to send her money. This was before paypal and venmo and all the cash apps so I think they actually sent her money in the mail.  She then had someone come online and tell everyone she died.  She then created a new persona and tried to get back with the group but she was soon caught.  Turns out she didn't have cancer and she was very much alive.  Interestingly enough people forgave her and let her back in the group.

    Indeed I do! I still have the wedding invitation of a tenant who disappeared on the eve of the wedding and then later another avatar claimed that this person, who was supposedly pregnant in real life, was killed by a hit and run accident. I did a lot of Google searching and I also as a journalist had access to Nexis/Lexis and could not find a single news report about such an event, which would definitely merit at least a police blotter line if not a news story. The whole thing was extremely suspicious. Everyone thought I was terribly mean for questioning this story but lots of people questioned it, it seemed like someone wanting to back out of a commitment they ultimately didn't want to make, but didn't know how to end.

    I remember in The Sims Online in a Yahoo group, there was a woman who constantly claimed she was abused by her husband and needed to move out, and this kept repeating and repeating, and people had trouble believing her story. There is a condition even called "Internet Histrionics Syndrome" where people devise a sad story, or even have a real sad story, and keep drama about it constantly rolling online where no one can check.

    Another time an infamous griefer who had harassed me and my tenants for years, who used to shower sims with those anti-gay and antisemitic AIDS and Wailing Wall particles, was claimed to have died in real life of AIDS. It seemed really strange at many levels, one of which is that young people don't tend to die quickly of AIDS in the US because there are lots of medications for this to put it in remission. There are other strange twists and turns to this story but long story short, a blogger had already once claimed this person had died, but in fact he had not died. Again, as a journalist I looked for the obituary and found one, but it was one that anyone could have easily put on one of those online memorial pages, they are not proof. So I called the funeral home and determined that yes indeed, the person had really died and provided a place to send flowers. Again, people thought this was incredibly rude but it's actually normal journalistic work of the sort that everyone relies on daily when they read a news site -- it's called "checking facts," a skill not always employed by reporters who use Twitter as an assignment desk, but still one valued even in our time.

    Yet another long-time from from TSO and SL was reported to have died in RL just when his long-time SL partner went to a city and was supposed to meet him in RL.  He didn't show up to meet her and didn't answer emails. Again, it seemed like someone backing out of a commitment they ultimately didn't know how to undo. But then sadly, it turned out to be true, and was confirmed by relatives and a RL obituary. Such things do happen. 

    There is nothing wrong or indecent about seeking confirmation about such alleged deaths. I have all too often have had tenants tell me the craziest stories about why they can't pay their rent, citing terrible grief, sisters dying of cancer, children killed in car accidents, then I see them dancing in a club later that night, how sad can they be? Yet it does happen. I had a tenant tell me she had terminal cancer -- and then disappear forever, and likely she did die. I have had tenants for years who suddenly disappeared in this last year and likely died of COVID. One came back and said she'd been very ill with long COVID for months.

    I remember years ago, I was going around answering tenants' tickets when my aunt in RL called me to tell me that my mother had been discovered dead of a heart attack just as she was packing her suitcase for a flight home. I was in such shock that I kept flying around and when some customer angrily asked me why I was taking so long, I said I just got the news that my mother died, and she naturally said, "Then why are you still logged on?" Indeed, except, in our time, this is what happens. You get a phone call about someone dying hundreds of miles away, you can't do anything instantly and you might just keep flying around SL. I could add that Anshe, who also happened to IM me at this time,  took great pity on me in my hour of grief and agreed to sell me telehub land for $7/m. Of course, she knew and I didn't that the Lindens would soon be pulling the telehubs. Oh, well. It's the thought that counts.

    You can never really know everything about someone in SL until you meet them in RL -- and not even then, always.

    I can only say, live your Second Life, such that when your time comes, your friends and customers know you have really died because there is some kind of real person connected to your life who can reliably confirm it. Mr. rm Sirbu was such a person, for whom 40 people could easily fill a sim with many waiting when his memorial service was held recently.

  5. On 5/28/2021 at 2:33 PM, Sandrine Vanbeeck said:

    In the night to the 23th of May, I lost my beloved wife, my partner in crime, my soulmate, my rock in the unsteady breaking of waves ... the light of my nights, the hope of my days.
    For almost 14 1/2 years, we were a unit. I miss every single second of this time ... with no exception. This is way more you can say about another human, than usual and describes the relation in a perfect way.
    Last night I got the certainty, the dull feeling became brutal reality.

    Now there is nothing left but a dark, cold, deep and empty hole in my soul. No words can ever express my grief !
    The cruel fate just blew out my life light.
    Amanda was my world ... and my world is dead now.

    I hope you´ll find peace ... wherever you are now.
    Life is energy and energy can never be lost. It will always be transformed. Maby your energy will transformed to something you love. I hope so much.

    Your loving wife San

    a (1139).jpg

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    I am so terribly sorry for your loss. The loss of SL loved ones is incredibly piercing, worse than RL in some ways.

    I remember ages ago, Amanda Dallin used to come to my Sutherland Dam meetings and comment on my blogs, always thoughtful and polite. Such people are to be treasured in SL.

    There is nothing anyone can do or say to assuage the pain except to keep you in their prayers.  A song that might be of comfort.

    • Like 2
  6. I wonder why so much effort is put in here to insist and prove that your fellow SL resident who entertains you and provides you with a venue to be in and socialize does not need to be compensated, or can be compensated with peanuts. And yet those same people then complain that venues fail, people grow discouraged, and they leave SL and it is "dying". Such a disconnect! And this is what is meant by the entitlement generation.

    • Haha 2
  7. 17 hours ago, theesasha said:

    Hi SL friends, 


    I've been playing SL for a little over a year, and I found this lovely space to build my sim. 

    I've had this land for a few months now, and I've noticed my neighbor copies everything I do - which is fine. 

    But lately, she's been doing stuff like this. Placing these giant screens that are invisible on her side but visible on mine. 


    Does this type of thing often happen with SL neighbors? I'm curious to know. 

    I want to have a peaceful and enjoyable time on my sim, but I feel she wants to create drama. Weird.  

    Sasha 1_001.png

    Sasha 1_002.png

    Sasha 1_003.png

    Yes, those photo-real giant boards are the worst. I ban them from my rentals unless we have some horrific build in the view from neighbours. 

    The common courtesy is to put the clear on the outside, and put the texture on the inward side facing you. If you are obsessed about privacy on the Mainland, you're in the wrong place. And you can turn off "show avatars" to make yourself invisible. So why inflict this complete eyesore on the view? I think it's totally morally wrong. The Lindens are not interested in devising a policy about this, although of course they could, they can make rules "for any reason or no reason". 

    You can fight back against something like this by giving them some ugly board to look at -- sometimes that forces them to climb down. But other times it will make them escalate with even more insanity.

    I would agree with Qie, however. I go to lots and lots of Mainland sims and have places scattered over 60 sims. Most people do NOT do this. Most people have the common courtesy to put the clear on the OUTSIDE because they are not fanatics and don't mind if you see through the clear wall to their property where they can make themselves invisible from the outside. In fact, most people don't put up boards like this at all. It's only a certain type oblivious to the view of themselves and inconsiderate of others' experience.

    De-rendering is not a solution. Some people are obnoxious enough to keep changing the prim so that you will have to keep de-rendering. And it also means that every guest you have fly in has to sit and de-render, and that's annoying, too. 

    I will say that putting sandy beaches on snow sims also seems objectionable to me, especially when you can find sandy beaches that are not that expensive if you look outside of Blake.

  8. 4 hours ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

    $L1000 for a DJ at a club? For a two hour set? You've got to be kidding. Even if that was divided between the host and club as well I'd never tip that much.  I do not think comparing going to a club in SL to going to a pub in RL is even remotely comparable. 

    If I go to a club I will tip the DJ/Host and/club $L100 each and that's if I stay for the whole set and If it's a regular club that I go to.  If I stay longer than 2 hours I typically will tip the next DJ/Host $L100 but not the club again. I actually very rarely will tip a venue.  I'm not here in SL to pay someone's tier or help them pay their RL rent, pandemic or not. You should fund your SL yourself and look at tips as icing on the cake.  Besides the word "DJ" is used way to often for someone who is just spinning tunes I could listen to on Spotify or YouTube.  There are very few people that DJ in SL that are actually talented enough to have DJ in front of their name and a lot of DJ's don't even talk.  If they don't voice I won't tip at all.  I hate when notices are sent out by a host with "DJ Raydio".  I could stay on my land for that. I may tip a live singer $L200 if I enjoy their performance. Also, if I request a song, which I rarely do, I will tip the DJ and extra $L100. 

    I think this gives new people and those that have very little to spend on $L a bad sense of what is expected.  

    At the larger clubs I never tip because they say their cursory hello and then go back to chit chatting it up with the regulars. 

    Also if a club resorts to constant "begging" for money I won't tip at all. There is this one club I stopped going to because they have local messages that come up like every five minutes begging for money for the DJ/Host/Venue and that if you request a song it's expected that you tip and that DJ's have expenses to cover yada, yada.  It's relentless begging.  The scripts are the same in every club "help us keep the lights on" "ty for that linden love" "what a great set by so and so DJ and so and so Host" Wash, rinse, repeat.  I wish clubs would come up with something different than every other club on the grid.


    $1000 is for a musician, not a DJ, and playing their own songs they have written, and who makes a living or a good part of his or her living in SL. That's perfectly reasonable. It's US $4.00. I would pay that in a RL bar, and just because I'm in virtuality, I don't see why it cannot be paid in SL. And I think at least $100 or $250 for a DJ, because again, they often have to pay for a Shoutcast stream. 

    I see DJs in this thread claiming they don't mind if people don't tip them, but that's because they're playing other people's music with a click of a button and it is not their RL living. I don't notice musicians saying "No need to tip me". A live musician, even one singing with a back-up tape, is working, and should be paid. If someone feels they don't have to pay for a Spotify with an AFK host, understood, but then how is tier going to get paid? People want socializing, they want life, they complain that there's nothing to do and SL is dead, but they can't fish 100L out of their pockets to keep it going? Why? 

    The events I've been to with DJs lately featured live DJs taking time to select themed music especially, talking about the background to the music some times, or helping to use that event to fund-raise for a cause like RFL. They are working and contributing their time; I have learned about songs I didn't know before from them. Why on earth wouldn't I feel an obligation to pay them? Of course I do. It's not like 250L is going to break the bank for anyone who can log on to the Internet and has the graphic card to see SL.

    New people are not children or impoverished refugees. They are people with computers and broadband even in the developing world so they have disposable income. They are going to be entertained and can pay a real human being for his or her work to entertain them what they would pay for another human being to sit and sweat at Blender. 

    Of course it's annoying to get asked every 10 minutes to donate to not just the performer or the DJ but the venue owner. But how are they supposed to pay tier? They're supposed to tier your SL for free? This is why so many venues, including some very good long-time ones, are forced to go out of business. This. This attitude that people should freeload or skimp and let others do the work and bear the burden of tier for them.


    • Like 1
    • Haha 2
  9. On 6/8/2021 at 3:55 AM, Daniel Voyager said:

    The Moles are building the new Chalet railway currently which is really exciting. From what I can tell the railway line starts from the west side of the Hydrant region through the central part of the Chalet regions eastwards then it turns up north towards the Wild Thing region. Most of the line is under construction but the extension up north will continue in the days/weeks ahead. 

    There are new underground tunnels (which floods at the moment), new rez zones dotted around, a new bridge and tons of Chalet homes being added. 


    View from SSPE2214 above of the new underground tunnel. This is really cool to see underground tunnels at last. 


    It's best to bring some swim wear for underground swimming 😂


    View of the new railway track line soon to be placed in Brady Stream. 


    View of SSPE2213


    Those are cool tunnels! Look forward to trying this out.

    • Like 2
  10. On 4/30/2021 at 6:41 AM, Rabid Cheetah said:

    Thanks for reminding me that having a GTFO Hub is one of my Belli goals.  I'll talk to my friend who owns a stilt I'm helping her decorate, and see if she's interested in having a GTFO Hub.

    The Lindens should keep GTFO out of Bellisseria. They have the power to do this, of course. 

  11. 2 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

    The GSA was waaaay superior to what they had at the time. There was absolutely no comparison between them.

    Let me tell you again - LL DITCHED THE GSA A VERY LONG TIME AGO. Instead of referring to it as thought they still used it, try using a form of generic words. You'll be accurate then and it won't appear as though you are making a mistake. I hope that helps :)


    Your belief that the GSA was superior was perhaps tied to the fact that it put your furniture store on top of search? That can happen.

    You don't know that they didn't put it back again.

    Since Apache works on the same philosophy, you don't know that they haven't kept that same philosophy -- likely they did.

    When there is a relatively small number of things to search for that dynamically update but not that much, GSA may not be the best solution. Techies are enamored with it, to be sure, but once again: it is not in the third party viewers. The old 1.23 Viewer search in all its glory has been preserved like a fly in amber in the TPV viewers. Imagine that! Imagine that! Because it works better.

    That's not enough reason for me to switch to them although occasionally I will use one if I am really stuck with an area search problem. 

    Just through the sheer luck of the draw, Coffee Pancake and Phil Deakins are fortunate that their names in search/people come up on the very top of the list despite the returns numbering 800, for example, in Coffee's case (which did not use to happen with exact term searches. And say, so does "Prokofy Neva" although not every day.

    But all you have to do is plug in the eight names of the Moncierge team Lindens to see how badly a name search can go.


  12. 4 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

    I understand that. Still, it may be that maintenance of all Search-related functionality is organizationally "Web". At least Rider claims that this one is.

    The jira that @Count Burks filed back on January 9th was linked to (and closed as duplicate of) an internal jira, WENG-5684 (invisible to us) on January 29th. I simply don't know how to advance the issue further, despite recognizing it cripples the whole platform.

    Maybe if we all ask the same question for the Lab leadership at their SL17B Lab Gab session, they'd bestir themselves to find out what's happening with this, and maybe even stir up some attention to fixing it. They'd much rather discuss broader subjects, so the question would need to be brief—certainly no more than ten words—in order to even be considered for asking. If this approach makes sense, who wants the drafting pen?

    (Personally, I'd really like to know how we're supposed to handle issues like this that vanish behind their mystical internal jira process, never to be seen again. It's one thing if this is to delay the grand announcement of a brand new Search mechanism so revolutionary I'd be selling my Google stock, SEC beware. It's another thing if they just don't want us to see the sausage being made.)

    I thought about doing that, and I'm not sure it's worth it. It's not likely to get picked, and if picked likely to get a bewildered or anodyne answer because the three Lindens in the leadership have never acknowledged this problem. Sometimes moving an issue up the chain to this sort of high-profile event is a way to bring new focus.  Let me try redacting a version:

    "Are there any plans to fix search/places and search/ people on the regular SL viewer, broken since 2020, with thousands of returns, many irrelevant by contrast with its past expected cleaner functioning of years, and could this and other longstanding issues be solved by buying Firestorm and aquihiring their developers?"

    How's that for an attention grabber. You have to bundle issues sometimes. 

  13. 2 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

    The Search used inside of Linden Lab's own Viewer and the one that is optionally usable (as opposed to the classic variant many TPV also use) is the exact same system as the "external version" ... They're the exact same page.

    Stop trying to treat them as if they aren't.

    This isn't the first time this point has been made and it's strange because I have never claimed they were different systems, and the sound and fury in reaction to this, like to all my posts, is simply misplaced entirely.

    I've merely made the distinction between them to emphasize the one inworld on the regular viewer, because so many people keep derailing and confusing the discussion to point out that on the TPVs, there are two different kinds and an option to use either, as you've just done again, because you keep pretending this isn't a major problem simply because it isn't for you.

    Once again, the Lindens need to fix search on their own standard branded viewer, even if a majority of residents don't use it.

    • Haha 1
  14. 26 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

    I think I'm right in saying that Prokofy is talking about the LL viewer, so your use of the word "we" doesn't come into it.


    They dumped they GSA at least decade ago - or thereabouts. They replaced it with an open source Apache engine. I have no idea if they are still using it, or if they have written their own, or got another one.

    That's right. You don't know. So you don't know what they have. And they have been secretive about search and that's understandable, because it is gamed and they want to try to mitigate that. This isn't the first time you are making this point. And so I'll respond once again, that what prompted them to put in GSA back in the day was a belief that this was superior to the previous form of search they used -- and in fact it was not. And that's why the third-party viewers don't have it! So whatever they have now -- and for all you know it could be GSA again -- it wasn't as good as the third-party viewers had, and now even that is broken!

  15. 11 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

    Yes, it's not  clear what the OP's real LI was.  But the landlord should not use prims, when she is seeing LI in her list, if that was the case.  Counting LI can be tricky if you miss a linkset, when clicking on your creations.  

    I have been the region administrater for parcel renting land companies, so I have seen the same region info you do and many "unusual" renter builds.  But I mainly build and have been using prims, sculpties, and mesh for about 10 years.  I also landscape regions.  I am sure you have seen more than I have, since I have other businesses besides land and building, but don't assume you are smarter than everyone else here.  I'm also one of those communist technocrats with a fancy bunch of degrees in hard sciences - not much use in SL though.  My minors were Sociology and Political Science, while most engineers and physics majors chose computer programming as a "minor".




    So let me say again: there is no "counting" that has to be done here. That you keep talking about counting linksets lets me know you're not getting the simple proposition here.

    No landlord is going to be right-clicking and counting individual items in an object or linksets.

    He is not going to be looking at linksets -- again.

    All of that is sheer folly, and would only be done if a dispute arises and you need to find the source of a problem.

    What the landlord does is LOOK AT THE ABOUT LAND MENU LIST OF NAMES WITH LI.

    As you yourself just said you do.

    I'm not the one who has made any assumption about being smarter. What I have done is explained three times now that there is a simple transaction here: looking at the land menu and telling the customers what her land impact is. If that is still called "prims" that's just a language habit like "sims" versus "region" and there is no need to fixate on it. 

    It's not about greed, no-show status, rapaciousness, evil, etc. as implied by all the nasty comments here to this landlord who cannot speak for himself in this thread -- a very common phenomenon in this section which I battle when I see it.

    It's not about link-sets or counting each individual item of furniture. It's a list on "about land". The end.

    It's great you have degrees in hard sciences. I don't believe an engineering degree is required to look at the land menu and understand it. It's a few clicks. 

    There is also a very, very simple reason why landlords use the term "prims" in lease terminology like "100 prim limit". And that's because many, many customers have not heard of land impact; don't understand it; don't realize it can differ. The term had many years of usage before about 2011 when "land impact" was introduced. People don't know to look on the "about land" menu which is quite simple to look at, either on the ground or at the "i" at the top of the viewer. That's all there is to it. It's not proof of an intent to deceive.

  16. On 5/21/2021 at 6:12 PM, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

    This happens, quite a few people in SL wander around just looking and don't want to interact, they're on a private journey and don't want to be interrupted. They might not even speak your language despite having a name that suggests they do. We tried everything we could think of on the three places I ran, we tried a meet-and-greet approach, sign boards with changing textures showing what was on offer, ready-made adventures, but it made little difference. On reflection, the people who came and ended up staying usually would have stayed there anyway even if we had made no attempts to greet or entice them in: usually the ones who stayed had come because somebody else who was there had suggested they take a look.

    All I can suggest you do is to study the profiles of those who came and stayed for more than just the 20-second survey bot time, and try to work out from their picks and groups what they might be searching for, then alter what's near the arrival point to subtly emphasis what you have to offer.

    You're up against the stone wall that all new RP venues find themselves behind, most RP-er looking around want to find existing scenarios they can join in with, they're not going to be the types who can start off from cold with nobody else around. Those ones are usually the ones trying to get the new RP-venue off the ground. But don't forget, all the existing well-frequented RP venues also started off from cold, so it must be possible to make it happen,


    I don't have a role play sim as such (although people can RP on these sims if they like), but I do have themed sims or sims with quests or hunts or hangouts.

    And I often see people land, and if I happen to be near the landing, they skedaddle out of there.

    And so sometimes as I see people landing and rezzing, I myself make haste to leave.

    Why? Because I think people don't like all the greeting and forced notecarding and such (I don't have any of that) and they dread having to be pressured by some venue owner.

    It's like a store, when you go to look at clothes, and the clerk hovers nearby and keeps asking you if you like something or if you want to try something else, and just get in your face and bother you. A lot of people like to look at the clothes in peace, and only when they are ready, approach a clerk who is a respectful distance away.

    I myself am a solitary explorer and don't like places that sling me all kinds of junk, ask me if they can take my profile (no, go away) blah blah. If a bot or live person also gets into the act and starts chattering, I leave. I'm capable of clicking on a notecard giver myself without having it in my face or having some fake chat.

    I'm aware that some other RP sims have folded recently and I think there are reasons for this, partly as people come out of COVID lockdown and leave SL, partly the usual SL summer slump, and partly just an awful spate of people just behaving badly on the forums and inworld because they are just too tightly wound with COVID and everything else.

    I see the successful RP groups show up at events like Fantasy Faire or Raglan Shire and participate or offer to help, Relay for Life is another outlet for many, many kinds of groups, and some of the happiest and most long-living RP groups are those that also have a very strong RFL team they turn out for RFL. 

  17. On 6/8/2021 at 3:53 PM, Qie Niangao said:

    Not much help, but I did ask at the Server User Group today:

    FWIW, the next Web user group (which I rarely attend) is July 8. Inara Pey reports on them each month. I have a feeling the whole Search problem may not be getting the attention it should, but it's impossible to know. Maybe somebody knows @Grumpity Linden or @Reed Linden ?

    Again, this is about not just the web search, i.e. the external search on the web page of SL. 

    It's about the inworld search in the viewer.

    Yes, I realize the term "web search" may mean to you both the external web and the internal viewer search, but just to be clear, both are affected. You can see the exact same behaviour on both with the same exact term searches.

    @Qie NiangaoHere is the original thread I started on this in December 2020 which copious documentation and multiple follow-ups. Yes, this was all given to Support in ticket form, with numerous replies and follow up and at this point is "nowhere" and I've been told to "refile the whole thing" but I won't be doing that at this time.

    Why is post put in the Technical section under in "Viewer" and not "Server"? Because...the search is in the inworld viewer. That it is also on the web is understood, but it seemed logical to put this under "Viewer". No Linden removed the thread to "Server" because basically they're ignoring this issue. If in fact technically this is all server side and not client side, God bless it, I don't care, move the thread, or more importantly, fix Search -- or announce that you will not fix it. I don't care if an airline has to cancel a flight. What I do care is when they keep you in the airport all day long and even overnight, stringing you along and telling you every hour that the flight will be taking off "soon". 

    So on my December thead, along the way, you see the usually harangue about how this isn't the case in Firestorm, etc. -- except it has been a problem there, too, just not as deep a one as it has two alternatives.

    Some of the things I flagged as I mentioned have been cleaned up, like dead parcels, SOME but not ALL parcels NOT in search (why are we turning up sim names on a search of a name when that entire sim is not in search/places?! It's as if search/places has been decoupled from its 30L function). Along the way, you see the idiotic argument that when you pay 30L to appear in search/places, this is "not an ad". Of course it's an ad; you've paid for it. It's a cheap ad that is merely a listing and not a larger ad on the sidebar like Classifieds, but still an ad -- you paid for it. I asked Jeremy Linden how he defined the 30L search/places "offer" or "feature" -- no answer.

    If the Lindens refuse to fix search which has been broken about 9 months now (my December post was put in when it seemed Lindens were going to do nothing, then they need to stop collecting 30L per checked off search/places, and disable the debiting from it.

    • Haha 1
  18. 1 minute ago, Jaylinbridges said:


    I posted the OP's comment above.  Clearly she is saying her Land Impact was 90, and the landlord claims she is over her 100 prim limit.  This is because OP reduced her LI by linking some prim and mesh objects - a normal thing to do when it is possible, to REDUCE the LI to less than the internal prims. This not a case of sizing up a mesh object to get a larger LI than prims, It is just the opposite.   What the landlord did not say was what the actual LI she was reading for the parcel.  But you don't substitute prims when you mean Land Impact. 

    Many of these cut rate sky rentals use old rental boxes that claim 100 prims for XXX $L.  Do they mean old prims, or the actual Land Impact?  The landlord needs to get a modern LI counter for her parcels - OR state that I only look at prims NOT the LI.  So if you have mesh objects that use 20 prims but have a 12 LI, I am charging you for 20 prims.  In other words,  Mesh objects do not exist in their mind.  I call that stupid.





    Re-read the OP's later comments. She noted that she enlarged the bathtub. That may have upped the land impact.

    And once again, yes, usually by linking mesh or convexed prim you can keep or lower your land impact but NOT ALWAYS. Are you in the land business?  It does sometimes happen that in fact you increase them. I have handled zillions and zillions of prims, mesh, sculpties and I see what behaviour there is in world. Do you? I have numerous occasions when tenants swear they are not over their prim limit/land impact as stated in the lease, but the "about land" menu showed that they are. I send them screenshots. We go over what's on their parcel. Sometimes it's a linkage issue. Sometimes something has happened like they drop some jewelry that is very high prim and don't realize. Or they put out a double copy of something. Or they link a twisted prim. I'd have to see what she did to figure out why there is a discrepancy of 10, but it *IS POSSIBLE* without the landlord being a crook, a liar, or any of the other slurs slung in this thread. He could just be reading the land menu with her name on it. The end.

    They can't possibly mean "100 prims in the old meaning that we sit and count ourselves, yes every one." Again, that's what I'm trying to explain. No landlord especially in a cheap rentals is going to right click on every single object and count its prims, then total them all. They go by *what is on the land menu* which does that totaling automatically. That's instant and visible by name. Since their own prims in the form of a building, with sometimes multiple managers will also show up, they look at the *list by name*. So they 100 *going by that list*.

    • Like 1
  19. 17 hours ago, LunaThyme said:

    Hi everyone,

    I recently rented a property in SL for the first time, and I was told I could have 100 prims to decorate with.  I know a lot of people use the word 'prims' when what they actually mean is 'land impact', so I presumed she meant I could have a land impact allowance of 100 - as surely, it's the land impact of objects that counts, not the number of prims, right?  So I decorated the house, carefully counting up the land impact of my objects as I went along, and linking items together to save on land impact, to make sure I didn't go over my limit. I was quite pleased with the result, and also pretty chuffed that I'd managed to decorate the place so nicely for only 95 land impact. So imagine my consternation when I received several messages from the owner's prim counter telling me I was way over my prim allowance, and I must remove several items immediately - or else!!  It turns out that when the owner said 'prims', she actually meant prims, and not land impact!  So my lovely bath which is only 2 land impact, but has 10 prims, and my nice cupboard which is 4 land impact but actually has 8 prims, and several other items besides - all had to be hit with the delete button.  Now the place looks very bare! I've looked through loads of ads for rental properties here on the forums and on Marketplace, and they all mention a prim allowance, and not a land impact allowance.  So I was wondering if all you experienced SL renters out there could tell me - do rental property owners usually mean 'prims' when they say prims, or do they actually mean 'land impact'?  😕


    It's always amazing to see the animosity to landlords and the assumptions that they are crooks. AnnabelleApocalypse is simply wrong in her claims. The landlord need not be a crook if all he is doing is READING THE LAND MENU and seeing that in fact the impact is indeed more than the literal prims. The OP says she slightly enlarged this multi-piece bathtub -- that may have been enough to make it show more land impact than its original stated description. That's a well known fact about mesh, LI can increase sometimes dramatically when you enlarge the item.

    The difference between number of prims actually in the individual items and the figure for land impact usually do not differ that much. When they do, and you have not enlarged the item, it's because a twisted prim has been linked to mesh, or some other aberration has occurred to jack up the land impact. But yes, they can differ, and it might be the difference of a few prims that you will then have to shave off.

    A landlord is not going to sit there and count the number of individual prims in each individual object you have -- manually -- because that's what they would have to do. And what on earth would be his motivation to harangue you over a small overage if it didn't exist? He needs customers.

    So no, when they say "prims" in the old usage they mean "land impact as shown on the land menu".

    They will go by the land impact number *on the officer's view of the land menu*.

    It's this part that becomes confusing to the tenant because *he cannot see that menu in the same way*. ChinRey, you know that and could have mentioned it.

    The landlord has a view of the "about land" menu that shows every prim on that parcel by name; without officer status and increased powers in the group, the tenant cannot see that list. So it will clearly say in the list "Luna Thyme" and a number, be it 95 or 100. If that list says 110, the landlord will have to tell you that you are over -- because it is literally taken away from the entire prim count on that sim for that group (I'm assuming this is group land).

    Automated counters attached to rental cubes are merely taking the same information from the land menu.

    You can get a prim counter and deed it to the group and it will count only your prims. It is widely believed these "don't work". But that's because people don't realize they have to deed them to the group, and then they read the prims only of that person who clicked them.

    Linking your items can reduce them sometimes, if there are several convexed items they might end up the same or even lower, i.e. 3 items each of 1 land impact that are convexed, when linked might yield you only a 2 li (convex is an option on the object menu that can help reduce prims -- if the item is made of prims and not sculpties). But linking can also occasionally make a land impact go up, particularly if the items linked are prim and mesh or sculpty or mesh, especially if the prim is not just a regular cut prim but twisted - you can see land impact go up 500 points at times like that which is why it is not recommended. But more commonly some linked items can indeed make the count go a bit higher than if not linked.

    So while it is frustrating to literally count the prim number in your items, your land impact shown on the menu with your name and visible only to group officers can indeed be higher, and linking things may be what caused this problem or simply that yes, there is a divergence of a few prims between prim and land impact. There is no substitute for just taking off the prims and putting them out one by one and checking the line of "land impact" on the "about land" menu.

  20. 4 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

    If we had the server code then there would be many third party patches by now. (Like there are in the official viewer, that you use every single day .. having had a hand in a few of them, I'd say, you're welcome!)

    A really tight SL search that's integrated into the viewer and not using a web page at all would be really cool .. and right now we can't do it because we only have half the puzzle and can only make the best of the bits we get.



    You don't have server code. But the Lindens do obviously. And at any time they may work on that server code and report back to us. As they have done in the past. Like they did that time Search was broken for literally only 48 hours and Sir Vix *hastened* to IM me. *Hastened*. Ah, those were the days. 

    And believe it or not, you have me to thank, too, because years ago when I could still file on the JIRA, I filed bugs, they got squashed, i.e. one that was related to Classifieds, and so it actually said, imagine this, "Second Life is Brought To You By the Lindens and.....Prokofy Neva.....[hundreds of other names].

    There is a simple thing to do. And that is to dump GSA and put back 1.23 search *which is in all the third-party viewers hello!*. Yes, this, that, the other thing. But they do it. And so could the Lindens. Another proposition: Lindens buy Firestorm, aquihire some of their devs, the end. The objections to this are philosophical, legal, technical-disguising-emotional, etc. All it takes is a firm hand at the top, and we'll be over this madness.


    • Haha 2
  21. 8 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

    Because ... those are all VIEWER PATCHES we get full release notes and source code .. the viewer is mostly concerned with fetching data and rendering it. THAT'S WHAT IT DOES.

    Group chat and search are SERVER SIDE and we get what information LL feel like handing out. We wont get viewer release notes that contain "made search work just how prok likes it". Ever .. because that's not how search works.

    CAPSLOCK is OBNOXIOUS every other WORD isn't it.

    Guessing how stuff works and then getting angry about it doesn't seem like a fun hobby.


    That's not actually why at all ... SL is a dynamic canvas, games are a static one. The actual assets we upload in SL can be used in game engines and rendered faster and prettier. 

    The arguments here against high detail user content is not based around the raw detail of the things. The engine is by design, weaker, and unable to function like a game engine, and the best we can do is to min/max content to try and streamline the load.

    SL's weaknesses are a direct result of SL's core architecture. If we had a game engine, SL would render super fast .. but it wouldn't be SL anymore and half the stuff we do and take for granted wouldn't be possible.


    Gosh, Corey Linden must have been right when he said Phillip should release the server code, amirite?

    Search not working for nine months "how Prok likes it" is the default of SL on a 100 things and I've long gotten used to that in my 17 years in SL. Have you, with your wish list? 

    And guess what, search isn't about me, as plenty of other people complain about how it harms their business.

    As for this: That's not actually why at all ... SL is a dynamic canvas, games are a static one. The actual assets we upload in SL can be used in game engines and rendered faster and prettier. 

    Do I need to state the obvious, that SL is a "dynamic canvas" because -- wait for it! -- it has user generated content constantly uploading? Hello? And not everything needs to be faster and prettier, because it isn't faster or prettier to start with.

    They can take their time loading my "atomic table" for example.


    • Haha 1
  22. 12 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:





    This patch is a graphics roll up patch. It will only contain graphical fixes.

    Stuff like this gets released in blocks so LL can better tell how reliability & performance has been impacted.

    Yes there are other bugs. Believe it or not, there's more than one developer working on SL.

    Rendering is a low bar.

    If stuff looks broken, then the whole product stack is assumed to be junk. This applies to all applications & games, not just Second Life and is a base expectation. Graphical issues have a disproportionate impact on retention.

    This isn't getting distracted by shiny, this is the cumulative work of one specialist addressing issues in a fundamental pillar of the experience.

    It's very, very, VERY typical of MOST PATCHES in that the focus is OVERWHELMING on graphics, EEP, the look of SL, and not its function, like group chat or SEARCH which has been BROKEN for NINE MONTHS.

    How do I know? Because I read every single release note. And given your literalist fixation on the overall valid point I've made here, I doubt that if I go and dredge up every single patch from the last 2 years to prove my point, that it will ever be made to you because you don't want to concede that form not function is the obsession of the LL team. So I'm not going to bother with that.

    Yeah, I get that are multiple developers, teams, and you all in that SUG and other type of technical groups who are superior to us norms in your knowledge of the inner workings of SL. But I have never been afraid to state the obvious about all this nerdy work, and I'm not afraid now.

    It is being distracted by shiny. Actually, "distracted" isn't even the right term, as if top management just lets the nerds do their thing, which, while once the case, hasn't been in recent years. It's actually more about Managed Dysfunction. For all kinds of reasons, LL has not been able to tackle head-on at root some of the functionality issues and put all their human power and resources on them. We have now come to see that part of this was about a very brave CEO who, instead of saying "I am retiring to spend more time with my family" as he learned he had months to live, decided instead to see through SL moving to the cloud -- your inventory and mine, as if that matters, more than his family? Who decided to sell off a failing branch and sell the Lab itself to give it both a liquidity event for original investors and a chance for new energy and life. Would you do that or would I if given months to live? No, we wouldn't. So I get the circumstances, but even before Ebbe, the trend was not to look hard at all the key dysfunctions of governance, rule of law, copyright, functionality that are really required for a functioning special community of this nature. Ebbe gave a gift that was really quite phenomenal and it should not be squandered. 

    There are other worlds and games that are always by their nature going to be shinier and SL cannot reach their level simply because it allows user generated content and not just game dev content, the end. This shouldn't have to be mentioned every time.

    Graphics are only one factor of retention. As I have tried to indicate in a small way with polls I conduct in world plus -- PS, my thousands of customers over the years, hello, not trivial. Quite valid in fact. Why do they leave SL?

    o relationship gone bad, heartbreak, or partner steals content because they let them on their account -- big factor

    o can't afford the price of owned or rented land

    o nothing to do, nowhere to stick, friends have all left or even died in RL, just can't gel

    So "pillar of experience" be damned, frankly. Linden has never gotten the new user ramp in right, and still has crazy insane stuff like literally falling off mountains into an abyss in your first minute as their idea of "education". At least it's not killing rats as you steer a motor vehicle around.

    Governance and functionality have always taken lower places in their techie-wiki oriented world. It's actually an achievement of Ebbe's in his 7 year tenure that he got rid of some of the worst of that and made SL more normal. Made it have Bellisseria, where people can be happy and flourish. Added groups space, even if chat doesn't work. Made land cheaper with more prims. That last bit is way more important to the common man than infinitely distant stars.

    Infinitely distant stars, my a$$!


    • Like 1
    • Haha 1
  23. On 6/8/2021 at 4:34 AM, nahladahl said:

    Hello! I’m looking for friendly, social places to hangout with a decent number of people. Any recommendations?

    If you look on the top of your screen on the viewer, you will see "Destinations" which has a variety of categories, "Newcomer-Friendly," "Recommended by Editors" and "Hot Right Now" (or similar wording) along with other categories. So browse those and click on them and go there.

    Another possibility is to fly around and see where there are a lot of green dots on the map. This might or might not be an interesting event or club with real people or may be a nest of bots. You'll be able to tell if you find the avatars not talking and slumped in unnatural positions.

    Another idea is to look at the Events list in Search and pick something out there.

    There is a system of infohubs that always have people hanging out in them. So again, look on the map and go through those, they can be of varying quality depending on the time and day.

    None of these methods are particularly satisfying until you manage to find a group that has your interests, or events that are of interest, and then as you get into it, you will get more recommendations and socialize more meaningfully.

    Yet another more effective way to find social groups chatting is to type the name of your country or language into Search and turn up language or country specific clubs like "Hispanic" or "Arabic" or "French". This works also for themes like "motorcycle" or "jazz".

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