[Parcel level bot detection]

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I've only been around 16 years, but don't remember that.

Your comment DOES reinforce an idea I suggested in another thread (?) for detecting "bots", however! Thanks!

It was a feature introduced by Emerald (remember them?) which the Phoenix Viewer (V1 predecessor of Firestorm) inherited.  

Linden Lab eventually banned it because of all the drama it caused.

[Parcel level bot detection]

1 hour ago, Phil Deakins said:

PS. How do you create a bug report?

Go to https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/Dashboard.jspa?null and sign in.

Click on the Create button at the top right of the list of options at the top, and fill in the Create Issue form that appears.   Click the form's "Create" button (bottom right of the form).

[Parcel level bot detection]

14 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

The Speedlight GOLD avatar shows as a scripted agent but it shouldn't do.

All other avatars (standard viewer, Radegast, and non-GOLD Speedlight) correctly show as not scripted agents.

Have you written this up as a BUG jira?  

[Parcel level bot detection]

People have, rightly or wrongly, expressed dissatisfaction with not being able to detect and ban scripted agents from their land if they are allowed at the estate level. 

Now LL given them a tool that gives them the ability to do just that.   

To my mind, people's fears about bots were overstated, and the only real difference between scripted agents and any other type of unwanted visitor (and it can be a significant difference, I agree) is that bots, once you're on their itinerary, turn up far more frequently and regularly than do regular wanderers, and I've always found the regular parcel tools perfectly adequate to remove them.   

Meanwhile if a bot is collecting data, it can do that from anywhere on the region, or even from your parcel before your scanner has a chance to detect and remove it, unless the scanner is on ridiculously fast timer, in which case its impact on region resources is likely to become an issue. 

However, that's beside the point. 

People had a problem -- unwanted scripted agents visiting their land -- and now they have a solution that makes them feel more in control.

As Nikita Khrushchev is said to have told Richard Nixon, "If the people believe there’s an imaginary river out there, you don’t tell them there’s no river there. You build an imaginary bridge over the imaginary river.”

[Parcel level bot detection]

2 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

I still think this is the wrong way to go about it.

All this does is gives residents the ability to target people for following the rules. Doesn't help us with people that don't register their bots- which the bad actors certainly won't.

When I say it like that, it seems like an absolutely moronic idea, actually.

I suspect it causes as many, if not more, problems as it solves.

The bot would be very unfortunate, unless the script is running on a ridiculously fast timer, if it were to be detected and ejected by a scanner before it had completed its work, legitimate or illegitimate.    Meanwhile, the parcel owner is happy, if this is the sort of thing that makes them happy, they've got an anti-bot script running on the parcel.

 

[Parcel level bot detection]

Just noticed this:

You can now detect if an agent is an identified scripted agent ("bot") using llGetAgentInfo.

Further details at  

 

[Motown: LL's Partnership with Capital Music, and the New User Experience]

9 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

We provide free dancing gestures (100's of them) at our club, free request songs, and most patrons are hard pressed to tip 100 lindens for their entire stay there. 

Yes, but have you obtained licences to stream them, or to use extracts in gestures, from whoever owns the rights to the songs?

[Some MOAP Tricks I'm learning..]

Apparently <![CDATA[ … ]]> is used in XML  to escape <, > and &.   It should not, however, be used in HTML, which regards it as a comment

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/CDATASection.

 

[SLB20 Opening Ceremony Lab Gab - Announcements?]

Out of interest, I checked the UK Government website the import duty and tax I'd have to pay for importing to the UK a 2023 Chevy Bolt EV, valued in US$27,495 (the value given in the rules): £7,163.72 (about $9,100 USD).   

And that's before paying the shipping charges (at least another US$1000, according  Schumacher Cargo Logistics.

So that's somewhere north of $10,000 (£7,800) I'd have to find to import it.    That's considerably less than a new car would cost me, of course, assuming I was in the market for one, which I'm not, but then I'd have to worry about finding spares for the vehicle and a garage capable of maintaining it for me.

https://prnt.sc/eT_EPNANh5_K

 

[Is this new round of mentors a good idea?]

7 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

It should be noted that the RLV in Firestorm is Marine's RLV.

Are you sure about that?  Firestorm call what's in their viewer RLVa, which is what Kitty Barnet makes, and for which Catznip is the reference viewer.

[Is this new round of mentors a good idea?]

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Maybe not but at the very least with the Firestorm viewer you can direct them to the Firestorm Group or their own viewer wiki at https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/start . These are options not available for other viewers including SecondLife's. Have to maybe direct them to contact @Quartz Mole for help in case of future issues

I was responding to AlphaStud's point that

Quote

I think a mentor should have understanding of all viewers, if possible (not suggesting this as a requirement, but it would be a plus to be able to assist further if needed).

Each of them are fairly similar anyway,

My point is that, while I have a reasonable understanding of both viewers, I certainly wouldn't try to answer questions about the UI of one viewer without being able to check my responses using the viewer in question.   

So if I were acting as a mentor on Firestorm Island I would make a point of logging in on Firestorm, because that's the viewer I would expect to be asked about, and , for the same reason, if I were acting as a mentor on LL's Welcome Hub, where new users will rez and where all the videos and other materials use the Official Viewer, I would log in using the Official Viewer.

In either case, if someone asks me a question about the other viewer I can always log in an alt on that viewer so I can check.

[Is this new round of mentors a good idea?]

15 minutes ago, AlphaStud said:

I think a mentor should have understanding of all viewers, if possible (not suggesting this as a requirement, but it would be a plus to be able to assist further if needed).

Each of them are fairly similar anyway, and it wouldn't be unlikely in my opinion that a new resident might have done prior research on viewers to appeal to their interests or be recommended (through friends, YouTube videos, etc.) to use something other than the default one before coming in-world.

I'm sure they have guidelines, though, on how to approach a situation where someone is asking for help using another viewer.

I'm reasonably familiar with both the Official Viewer and Firestorm, but there's no way, if someone asks me a question and I'm not logged in on that viewer at the time, I'd feel confident answering it without logging in an alt on the viewer in question just to be sure I'm telling them to look at the correct menu or submenu for whatever it is they need. 

[Is this new round of mentors a good idea?]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

What if the new user came because they have heard of the RLV functions available in other viewers and is attracted to such an activity? Why train them on a viewer that has no such ability?

If anyone asks me about RLV, I recommend either Catznip or Marine Kelly's Restrained Love, depending on their operating system (if they don't use Windows) and a couple of other considerations, since those are the reference viewers for RLV, give them a basic over-view, and  suggest they ask for further advice in the Open Collar group. 

Both Catznip and Marine's viewer have the same look and feel as the Official Viewer. 

 

[SSP?]

5 hours ago, Anthony Marques said:

Ramsbottom - Its name is believed to derive from Old English ramm and botm, meaning 'valley of the ram'.

 

According to Google, 

Quote

 The name has nothing to to do with 'rams' in any form, the derivation being from the pre 7th century Olde English word 'hramsa' meaning garlic and 'bopm', which strictly speaking means land at the bottom of a valley suitable for agriculture.

https://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Ramsbottom

It's not that uncommon a surname in Lancashire and west Yorkshire.

[Oh my Gawd! - Totally unOfficial Pet Peeve Thread.]

4 minutes ago, Marigold Devin said:

That'll teach me to read posts from the most recent and backwards up the thread! You had the same maths teacher as I did!!!!!!!!! (Mr Law, little man, VERY hairy?)

And he used Comic Sans!

[Oh my Gawd! - Totally unOfficial Pet Peeve Thread.]

45 minutes ago, SarahKB7 Koskinen said:

I was told as a child that writing in green ink/Biro is something one shouldn't ever do because it's unusual, not formal and even a little bit weird.

If that's true, then why do green pens even exist?!  🤔

Because MI6 need them.

[Is this new round of mentors a good idea?]

4 minutes ago, Kalia Anatine said:

Well do you ask before buying a product rl what their expenditure is? Hmmm not buying this Pepsi because they made to much last year.

 

You said

Quote

No, they make around 70 million there abouts. 

Normally, when people talk about how much money a company makes, they mean the amount of profit it makes -- that is, its total income minus its total expenditure.  

What do you mean by the term?

[Is this new round of mentors a good idea?]

11 minutes ago, Kalia Anatine said:

No, they make around 70 million there abouts. I will not just throw out a figure without a source. Here is mine if you wish to look. Linden Lab Revenue: Annual, Quarterly, and Historic - Zippia. 

Your source says 

Quote

Linden Lab revenue is $75.0M annually. After extensive research and analysis, Zippia's data science team found the following key financial metrics.

That may well be accurate, but what of their expenditure?   

12 minutes ago, SabrinaCooke said:

Yes, I know that. But that's the official figure that they bandy about during interviews and is published on their website, which goes back to my point on optics. Plus, how much of that figure do you think lands in LL's pockets? I can assure you it's not a small amount. 

Whenever I've seen that figure quoted in interviews, it's always been to make the point that LL has a thriving in-world economy, where residents spend a good deal of money on goods and services provided by other residents.   

[Is this new round of mentors a good idea?]

8 minutes ago, SabrinaCooke said:

For a company that's been pretty vocal about making around 600M USD GDP a year (which is higher than some small countries--I looked it up) the optics of refusing to spare even 300L/week for volunteer mentors are just so bad. 

The $600 million figure refers to the sum of economic activity by residents in SL -- the total amount we spend in-world on goods and services, most of which comprises transactions between residents.

It's not the amount LL make in a year, which is a figure I don't believe they publish.

[Is this new round of mentors a good idea?]

17 minutes ago, Randall Ahren said:

In many organizations, engineering and marketing will roll out new programs and initiatives without consulting legal. It's not supposed to work that way, but legal does not run the organization and is seen as a stodgy department that just says no to all new ideas. Therefore, legal often learns of a new program after it has already been started and then starts doing damage control.

We don't, of course, know if LL takes decisions in such a cavalier fashion.

Perhaps it would help if people  were to stipulate their qualifications in US employment law when commenting on the legality or otherwise of the Mentor Programme.

[Is this new round of mentors a good idea?]

I assume that Linden Lab's legal department, assisted by external counsel when necessary, are familiar with US employment law and have approved this mentorship programme.

(Love and I posted at the same time).

[Is this new round of mentors a good idea?]

9 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Why do you think they didn't consider you and alts when they looked at the stats?

My assumption is they looked at all users.

That's my point, though.   

I suggest it's very possible that there's a higher than normal retention rate among new users who, like me, are introduced to SL by a friend.  That's partly because the group is, to an extent, pre-selected in that people who know them think they might enjoy it, and partly because they have a friend to mentor them and answer questions, introduce them to other people, show them round a bit, and so on.

Since it's possible, at the very least, that people who are introduced to SL by friends are more likely to log in a second time, and to continue logging in, than are people who come to SL cold, as it were, I would suggest that any comparison between retention rates for people who engaged with the mentor programme and those who didn't risks being skewed if you include among the latter group people like me, who did have mentors, but not official ones.

That is, the point of the mentor programme is to provide support and assistance to people who don't already have someone to help them, so a valid comparison of retention rates would need to exclude people who already had friends in SL to help them.

[Is this new round of mentors a good idea?]

21 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

When the Lab turned off the last previous mentor/helper teams they explained the stats revealed those using mentors left sooner than those that did not use mentors. Eliminating mentors increased retention. 😵 Which doesn't make sense to me. But it is hard to argue with simple stats.

I dunno.  Let's give it a shot.

My first question of these simple stats would be, what populations are we comparing?      I never encountered any mentors because my first introduction to SL was when a friend introduced me.   He emailed me a slurl and told me, after I'd set up an account, to log in at a particular time by clicking on it, and he'd meet me at his home in SL.  When I did, he gave me a brief intro to SL and was around to answer questions until I'd found my feet.   So I didn't need any mentors.    And since Innula was my second or third account, neither did she by the time I created this account, or any subsequent alts (which I did, and still do, quite frequently for testing purposes).

What, I wonder, would the figures look like if -- and if such a thing is possible, of course -- you were to exclude alts and to compare populations who received mentoring from friends, people who received mentoring from mentors, and people who received no mentoring at all?

 

[Is this new round of mentors a good idea?]

3 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Not necessarily as I believe in spite of the different naming conventions, the keyboard shortcuts are likely the same

If there's a keyboard shortcut available, certainly, though not all menu items in either viewer have keyboard shortcuts.  But many people prefer to use menus. 

[Is this new round of mentors a good idea?]

20 minutes ago, belindacarson said:

Just proves that Firestorm *IS* what the LL viewer should be.

Possibly so, though it's not obvious to me why that should be the case. I suspect it's just what you're used to using -- because you know where everything is, it's clearly the better viewer.   

However, what's indisputable is that the two viewers have their menus organised very differently, that new residents will have downloaded the Official Viewer (unless they have a friend who has told them to use Firestorm, in which case their friend can probably help them) and that if the mentor is using Firestorm when trying to explain to the new resident how to do something in the Official Viewer, they're going to get nowhere.