Shuichi Shinji
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Posts posted by Shuichi Shinji
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11 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:
That machine is still gambling as the numbers coming up could be random. Like the gachas it needs to be banned too. I can see that thing milking players.
I said nothing else, but was just answering the quoted questions.
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41 minutes ago, snowvoice said:
I have a question about this conveyor belt type machine.
It allows the buyer to see what will be available next, but it does not allow him to choose what to buy.
The buyer has to keep buying one item after another that he does not want until it is his turn to get the item he wants.
If the buyer doesn't buy the next item within 10 seconds, he or she will give up the right to purchase the item to someone else.Question 1: Isn't this system of not letting the buyer choose the product and making them feel rushed by setting a time limit on their decision to buy the product they don't want, gambling?
The creator also claims that the machine has been approved by Linden Lab, the lawyers hired by Linden Lab, and the Vice President of Product Operations for Second Life.
Question 2, is this true?
To anyone who disagrees with the creator, he says, "If you claim to be illegal, dispute Linden in court.
Question 3, Does Linden have a special agreement to protect him?
As far as I know, this machine has not been approved, only the general type of machine has been said to be ok in the FAQ:
Q: Could a “conveyor belt” system work?
Example: The vendor board selects an item at random and displays it for purchase. That item remains on display and available for purchase until a buyer touches the vendor which locks it to them for purchase. This allowed the buyer to purchase the item and deliver it. The vendor unlocks and then selects another item at random and displays it for purchase and the cycle repeats.
Example image here and credit to Nadi Vemo for the approved vendor design.
A: Yes, as long as the item currently being purchased is known. Note however that you should discontinue the use of the “gacha” term for these sales.
So claiming that LL, their lawyers and Patch Linden have approved this machine, is a little bold. Same for the "dispute them in court" part. The general type of machine might be ok, with details still to be figured out and who knows if this approval will stay. And I highly doubt there is a special agreement to protect him.
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The way I see it now, after reading this whole thread and thinking about it, is that the original gacha idea was fun, a game, where you didn't know what you would get and that could be exciting. Of course that fun part is also the dangerous, addictive part, and that the whole idea was perverted into a money-making scheme by some is also clear.
But for me, the main point with these new ideas like the conveyor-type machines is that the random part, the fun part, is missing, and it won't come back, because that is the part that has to go. So no matter how hard people try, none of these systems will be fun, just annoying to get a lot of things you know you have to get before getting what you really want.
Unless someone's coming up with a completely different idea to bring the fun part back, even without randomization, these things are dead for me - and it's probably for the better. Not that I played much gacha anyway - there are a lot of other fun things to do in SL. So I decided to turn my Gatcha script into a Giftcha script or whatever it will be called - take the payment out and just give a random gift on touch. Probably no one will want that or need that, but I will do it anyway 🙂
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14 minutes ago, Mollymews said:
Belli is a LDPW project and the Moles build everything for it
i can derail the whole thread with a long post about what Smart Objects can be. I just do a simple example which is kinda related to gacha. A Smart Object which is a product vendor
When we right-click edit the object it brings up a Property Inspector dialog. All the values/properties that are needed to sell the product in the Contents of the vendor can be set in the Property Inspector at design time. No script required. When we are happy with the values we then set the Active property to True. When we want to stop the object we set the Active property to False
things like particle emitters, sec orbs, vehicle engines, vendors, doors, windows, etc can be made this way. One day Linden might make for us
That sounds very interesting - kinda like what you could do in Unity with their scripts: export soem global variables which could then be set via UI as some kind of properties, too - no need to edit the scripts anymore. I would love something like that for LSL, just a new tab in the edit dialog where you could set such script properties.. but that's getting a litle off-topic now 🙂
The whole LDPW project sounds very interesting, tbh...
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12 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:
it's exactly that what needs control.
Both showed clear that greed is a bad factor.
from 40 commons 20 rares, 4 extra rare and 1 super rare ..and 75 pulls for the last...
or worthless badly made commons, to just a color difference with the rares with the same template ( sometimes clearly from a 3rd party 3d site.... )
Regulating by profession groups works seldom well... there needs to be one above. And not with the hardly working report by resident system.
I agree with you that some get greedy and don't act responsibly, but I don't think that is true for the majority. Control can still be executed by reacting to (reported) violations.
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1 hour ago, Alwin Alcott said:
the problem is... if sellers (some or more) are able to go around restrictions, they will.
LL needs to have a control option. Permission for only their script would be one.That's the same with pretty much everything inworld. Better to just put up rules and react to violations. And the downside for an LL-made script would be "liability" for bugs, malfunctions etc. An open source example, as suggested too, is a nice idea, but there is also no control over changes. So better to clarify the requirements and then let creators do their job...
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14 minutes ago, Viche Hexem said:
H'yup!
WRT if this will be an "interesting ennough replacement for gacha" that really depends on the whims of the userbase and that's something I won't claim to predict. People in this thread, the loudest and most passionate voices amongst us, will likely say things to the effect of "This will never replace gacha, this new thing sucks! I will never play it!" or "This is basically gacha, this thing sucks! I will never play it!" aren't an accurate representation of SL's shopping demographic as a whole. If we want to see if it's interesting enough we'll just have to wait and see, if not be the ones to put up vendors based on these new ideas in stores ourselves and see what kind of feedback we get from their use.
Yeah, I won't try to predict that either. I am just trying to find out if it's worth to update (and rename) my own (open source) Gatcha script in a fair, usable and compliant way. Right now I am leaning to retiring it. I don't think I will go for the HUD idea - it does solve a few problems with the conveyor-style vendors, but they also make a formerly simple system much more complicated, HUD or no HUD, and for me personally, they don't sound like fun. But I'll see... I certainly won't put up these vendors myself, tho, because who would play gacha for scripts? ^^
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21 minutes ago, Viche Hexem said:
Maybe you could just pay the not attached-to-hud element of the machine and that could relay to the hud element that you had paid. Maybe you could pay a non hud attached machine for conveyor-vouchers and then use those vouchers on the attatched HUD element so it never has to ask for access to your L$ directly.
Yes, that could work. The vendor wouldn't even need to talk to the HUD regarding payments - the HUD could just be for displaying the next item, everything else can stay in the vendor (payment and delivery)... even a simple IM from the vendor would be enough in theory. It would also allow multiple users to use the vendor - the next item for each user that is displayed on their HUD would just stay as it is and not change, no matter how many others are also playing, so they would always get what they see.
If this concept is an interesting enough replacement for Gacha, I don't know...
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1 hour ago, Skell Dagger said:
Since the 'roller script' as per the example created by Nadi Vemo has been given the thumbs-up in the FAQ, then all concerns about unscrupulous use of such scripts ("Of course you have a chance of getting that ultra-rare; we set it at 0.01% chance!") could be nixed completely by one thing:
A single, Linden-approved script.
In my opinion, LL should not interfere with anything that is or can be created by inworld content creators, in this case scripters (even if one scripter wins the contest and provides the scipt for all to use, it would not result in the same earnings). I know, this is just one script and I can see the benefit of the idea, but I fear it would just open a can of worms...
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7 hours ago, Mollymews said:
is a herd of shoes a shoe of shoes ?
😸
It's just pants!
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7 hours ago, Mollymews said:
bouncing of the HUD idea
we would mostly likely have to grant debit permission to these kinds of HUDs
And what's worse (maybe you meant that) is that the customer needs to give those permissions (since the HUD object is his own, so it doesn't make sense to pay the object like a normal vendor). And since there already are Gacha vendors that are not entirely trustworthy (a minority maybe, but nevertheless), would customers give them basically unlimited access to their L$ balance (at least the warning that pops up is very clear)?
Maybe no one will try that because their account is pretty much gone afterwards, but there are also script errors, bugs, lag, so it could theoretically happen accidentally. Would Gatcha creators take that risk to be accused of stealing in case of such an accident?
As for "taking the HUD home and play there", that someone mentioned: that could at least be scripted so the HUD works only on that particular place.
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And another question...
4) What about introducing a new "currency", e.g. you have to mine for something like "diamonds" and can then use them in the gacha to get a random item, as long as no payment of L$ is necessary in the process?
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Not sure if this has been asked already... if so, it could be interesting for the FAQ maybe ^^
1) Is it still allowed to give out random items as a result of payment if their chances and approximate vaules are the same? I guess not, since it's hard to verify.
2) Is it allowed to sell gacha or random item giver scripts, as long as they offer a method of using them "legally", e.g. without payment, but also offering soon-to-be "illegal" options, or do the latter options have to be removed from the scripts? I already made my Raffle script conforming a while ago, and I guess I need to change other scripts as well now...
3) As long as you see exactly what you get when you pay, e.g. on a Lucky Chair that requires payment, I assume that is ok, even tho some luck is involved with your letter being drawn?
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1 minute ago, Kacey Delicioso said:
still not a stream provider issue
Yes, of course you are right, I am terribly terribly sorry.
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Works for me again as well. Thank you for asking and maybe it was an oops, who knows.... happens ^^
@Kacey Delicioso It was not an SHX issue because other scripts requesting stream info also didn't work. The streams themselves worked, but not the stream info (if requested by script, i.e. from an SL server IP, not a user client IP... because the latter also worked). And it was only streams from this stream provider as far as I know (and maybe only a few), so assuming it was something on their side was justified. It was definitely no SHX issue and no USER ERROR. And announcing song titles in chat is not a feature of all viewers btw.
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1 minute ago, West Habercom said:
I asked if they have done any of that to any of our servers hosted with them. They say "no".
Thank you for asking. The cause remains unknown, though. What's the actual difference between the stream that works and the others, apart from public/private? Or, what effect does public/private have in regards to answering an HTTP request? And even then: why did it suddenly stop working? (Not blaming or pressuring you, just curious what caused it.)
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33 minutes ago, West Habercom said:
I just asked a friend who is in-world to check for me. Both places they went to showed our radio station playing... both stations are on the same servers that our SL clients are on. The only different is, the SL clients are set to Private, and the radio station are set to Public.
Do you know if the other streams work on those boards, too? I can access classicrock109 just fine with my script, but not the other ones. Would be interesting to see whether they work or not on the boards. They do work from a browser.
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I don't think that public/private setting has any relevance here. Getting the stream info in a browser works, getting it in SL doesn't. Both send a HTTP request including the URL and some headers before. Additionally, the "client" IP is different (actual client IP in case of browser, some SL server IP otherwise). So the logical conclusion would be that something is blocked on the server side, either by IP or something in the headers, probably user-agent or another header indicating the request is coming from SL. Maybe ask the datacenter, especially if they have done something like that in the past already?
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I tried it too and don't even seem to get a reply at all anymore. Edit: After I setup my script to not try Shoutcast v2 first, but v1 imeediately, I now get the same error response as you.
Possible other reasons why it doesn't work in SL could be:
- additionally sent headers, so the request becomes to large and is rejected by the server
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SL being blocked by user agent - previously it was possible to spoof the user agent, but not anymore and maybe the server owner blocked requests coming from SL for their sheer amount (not sure if Chuckles Orfan has any influence on that, maybe onbly on the Shoutcast server)
Edit: (I meant when you could add the User-Agent header manually, not via HTTP_USER_AGENT)
@West Habercom Shoutcast v2 includes a fallback to the v1 reply (7.html) for a while now. First, they didn't have that (only JSON or XML replies), but apparently added it because many devices only supported v1 back then. So even if the server is running v2, using 7.html should still be possible.
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1 hour ago, Dakota Linden said:
Greetings all!
This should now be fully resolved.
That's great news, thank you very much :-)
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8 hours ago, Whirly Fizzle said:
Is it maybe the act of a customer buying or carting an item is triggering the unassociation? Hence it would be hitting popular merchants best selling items.
For me, it wasn't popular products at all, so I doubt this is what was triggering it. 3 of them were rather new and the other one had only 12 sales so far. However, they've all been in the same category and were also related products. Other related products that were almost the same and also listed at the same day were not affected, only the variants that included the same script were. Since I didn't lose any reviews and only a few sales, I relisted them several times - now without adding any keywords, they've stayed and were not unlisted anymore. Since the 4 items with the same script also had similar keywords, I do think that has something to do with it...
For people like Casper this would be no solution, of course. However, reselling all the items to get the numbers back is no solution either. It's good that we can get the items back with reviews and numbers intact - thank you for this! - but it would be great if we were told the cause of the issue eventually (once it's clear what it is and once it's fixed if the knowledge could be abused).
And one question: Is it ok to not get the old listings restored via support and instead keep the relisted items? As said above, I didn't lose much, so I'd rather save me and support the time for the recovery and relisting. Unless the old items are somehow lingering and could affect the new listings. I doubt that, but since we don't know the root cause, it would be good to know that the manually relisted items are safe.
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2 hours ago, Kool Mekanic said:
Now I wonder if the delisting didn't happen to items on which I had modified the name in past, for instance changing initial "Door script" to "Door roleplay script" and at some point the servers have messed old and new names. That's just a supposition.
I don't think it's that because I renamed almost all of my listing names (adding FULL PERM) to the name, and only 4 were unlisted, and only for one of them I didn't change the name.
Now I wonder whether I should file a ticket, too... I already relisted the items manually and there were no reviews on them yet. Did you (any of you) have to mention the listing IDs or did LL find out themselves which ones to restore?
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1 hour ago, Theresa Tennyson said:
Like that guy who was selling those DJ boards who vanished from SL for months without leaving instructions on how to reach him and when the boards broke due to a security change nobody knew where he was for weeks and his customers were wondering if their things were broken forever?
Ok, I admit, that first made me chuckle... but I think, there is a slight difference between a company that offers a service used by thousands of customers, some of which pay for it, and ensure its smooth operation - and a hobby scripter (however professional his work might be) who is on his own and has got a RL and didn't even break these things himself...
But also LL consists of real people (yes, I heard) and mistakes happen and they are working on it, even if we don't hear much. And yes, this issue is a pain in the ass and I can understand anyone who is upset, especially if selling in SL adds to their necessary RL income or if there's much work involved to relist all these items...
And don't forget that LL contacted Saii and he came back and fixed the boards in a matter of one day or so...
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Is the unlisting still happening for others? My 4 relisted items are still there, albeit without filled out Features and Keywords, so it would be good to know if they are there because of that or because it's not happening at all anymore...
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New Gacha Policy Discussion
in General Discussion Forum
Posted
I stand corrected, after the latest post from Patch Linden. Not that I like it, there are too many problems with it, but if the main criterion is that you see what you pay for, it seems to be ok from a legal point of view...