Cully Andel

If there's a way to make a bad situation even worse they find it. This is now utterly unacceptable.

All companies have TOS and we all agree to them when we have any kind of contract with them. MOST companies will refer you to TOS in times of dispute, but if they are in anyway liable for any part of the problem, they will usually meet the customer halfway. Or at the very least, discuss the problem and reach some amicable agreement. What they DON'T do is just say 'hey you agreed to the TOS. We can do what we like,' which is unfortunately what LL do. It may not be treating people, or rather their customers badly in your book, but it most certainly is in a lot of other people's books. If I ran my business like that I'd go out of business pretty quickly, and deservedly so. Just because a company has TOS it does not mean that they never mess up, and it does not excuse them offering a basic level of customer service and care. The only ones who will truly suffer if they don',t is them. As a member of 7 years, you must also be aware of the fact that while LL encourage new members (and nothing whatsoever wrong with that), they also do very little in deed to try to keep their more established, loyal customer base happy. Where are any incentives for us to stay? we had a glimmer of hope when Rodvik was communicating and telling us things that were happening, but even that avenue has seemingly been closed. Customer service is extremely important in any business. If you lose a customer it's very difficult to get them back. And what never gets taken in to account is that one customer usually takes others with them, and those people know others, who know others.......... and so it goes on. The biggest one I remember here in the UK is BT, who not so long ago had the lion's share of all telecoms business. Their customer service let them down badly, and they only realised the damage when they'd lost a huge percentage of their customer base. So yes, ignoring your customers and just chucking TOS back at them, is treating your customers badly, and if people are being asked to pay for something they cannot use, because of an admitted error (I don't get how people keep missing this one fact), then they have a right to be angry. If your landlord spraypainted your house and accidentally used something, you'd have to find somewhere else to live. If he then said, 'I messed up but you still have to pay me the rent for the period you can't live here,' you'd have every right to think that was a little unreasonable, and be angry. This is what LL are doing. Same principal. different circumstances. If you're not affected, then you won't appreciate how angry people are, so please stop telling them they have no right to be.

Correction. An acknowledged LL bug forced so much data down that they managed to put paying customers over their limit with no warning whatsoever. In fact those people had to tell LL it was happening. I'm sick to death of people here saying it's not LL's fault when they have actually admitted it! You get that bit?? They HAVE admitted there was a bug that caused this problem. And AGAIN I point out that this was discovered by people who WERE checking their limits, but such a dramatic and sudden increase caught them off guard. Not everyone is so **bleep** they check their downloads every 5minutes. LL have acknowledge an error on their part. End of!

He wrote that before this week's roll outs happened. A couple of people have suggested what they did has now worked.

So anyone know? IS this fixed or what?

Natales - I for one am very interested so saying we're not for not making the user groups is a little unfair. They don't talk here, on the forum, where most of us can read at our leisure. The 2 times available for the tech user group are 1 am and during working hours for those of us with a job. There's nothing in the middle, otherwise I would attend. I can't take time off work simply for that. And yes, I do expect A Linden to communicate. Why wouldn't I? Other companies have something called a PR or a customer service manager whose job it is to tell people what's happening. Don't forget, we receive communications on the blog about new things in SL, offers in SL - so why can't that same person communicate when things go wrong? LL are an International company. I'd expect this lack of communication from a one man band, but not from a company with such a huge International audience. They do actually PAY people whose job it is to communicate.

That sounds hafway positive. Thank you Theresa (and thank you again for explaning stuff in idiot language) If this is the case then let's hope they don't keep us all waiting till Tuesday

Is this just since this week's restarts? Bandwidth has been an issue now for a good couple of weeks, so if the usage you're seeing is higher than it's been the last 2 weeks, then this could make a serious problem even worse.

Do we know if anything worked yet?

Why do I get the feeling they shuold just roll it all back about 6 months and start over

See I did actually put in my comment that the fact we pay vat isn't down to LL. But we still have to pay more because of it. That is a fact. I didn't blame them. Office hours - where are these actually advertised?? I have asked this question elsewhere in the past and was met with total silence. Most forum users use the forum to comunicate - LL don't. If you'd like to tell me where I can find these hours I'll see what times they are. In fact I googled and found something, and the technology one is predictably too late for Europeans. So we can't be blamed for not being able to attend even if we wanted to. But then a summary of the meetings on this forum isn't too much to ask either. (And while she's doing a good job, Natales isn't a Linden, it's not actually her responsibilty to communicate. It's theirs) 95% return? we'll see on this one. If the problem's not fixed soon enough people with limits will have had no choice but to go elsewhere.

From what i can see the figures provided by others aren't exactly helping either. No fix comfirmed yet, but conflicting information about what the problem is. Perhaps we're not all able to work out how to help provide the data and I imagine not being able to log in because SL's used pretty much all your allowance in a few days might somewhat restrict your ability to log in and actually log any data. I logged in with a usage meter, and saw it go mad. I don't know how to actually record this stuff. I just know downloads rocketed. People ARE logging off until it's fixed. THAT's the problem! and yet we're all expected to sit quietly and accept that no one from the Lab is actually communicating, and they'll be demanding full payments from us all, even though their error has caused this. (and before anyone starts, I'm not saying bugs don't happen - but there are ways of dealing with it to keep your customers happy, and no one from the lab seems interested in keeping us informed.) and what? People on mainland don't deserve a working grid because it's cheaper? Owners of private regions get extra perks for their extra tier. Mainland owners should be able to expect the same amount of support, even if we can't do a lot with the estate settings ourselves. And please remember, here in the UK and possibly the rest of Europe, we pay more thanks to VAT. (and no that's not down to LL - but it is a fact we pay more) What's causing the frustration for people at the moment is there is no clear communication about what the problem is, and what exactly is being done. First it's a pathfinding issue. Then it isn't. Last week the bug was coming in. Then it didn't, it'll be this week. It isn't. People are assuming it'll be next week - we don't know. The users here are providing all the suggestions and information and NOT the people actually working on it. They should be the ones telling us what the problem is, not relying on others to post what they think it might be. I run my own business. If I have a problem, whether of my own making or not, the first thing I do is communicate. I make sure my customers are aware of what the problem is, what the options for solving it are. I provide alternatives and if it's my mistake, I will offer some form of recompense to recover goodwill. The last thing I do is try to pretend it didn't happen, or tell people not to complain.

I'm talking to deaf ears I know, but in the vain hope that we get a reply, then when will we know if the fix works, and will we have to wait until next week or can it be rolled in earlier? *sits and watches the tumbleweed roll by*

3 parcels sold - a few left. 2 adult parcels : Inca, 512 sq m just 6250L http://slurl.com/secondlife/Inca/50/152/21 Keranio, 1600 sq m just 8000L http://slurl.com/secondlife/Keranio/15/151/66 Parcel with sea access: Charleville 2048sq m 12000L http://slurl.com/secondlife/Charleville/175/215/22 Beautiful parcel on a lake: pumori 16384sq m, just 20000L http://slurl.com/secondlife/Pumori/84/183/25 2nd parcel not far which can be used with group allowance: pumori 800 sq m for just 1000L http://slurl.com/secondlife/Pumori/227/178/33 Parcel near the sea and on a Linden road: Gorgonzola, 9968sq m, for just 15000L http://slurl.com/secondlife/Gorgonzola/174/81/59 Reasonable offers considered. Contact Cully Andel in world

ok thanks. Problem is alot of you are technical bods. I'm not so if it's not in simple English then I get real confused

Not just England unfortunately

ok so now I'm confused (Not difficult) If sim owners can turn it off, why can't LL?

And yet poker machines were removed from Second life when they clamped down on gambling

Has anyone seen or heard anything from Rodvik lately? From what I can see he's not been on his feed or on Twitter for several months now. Is he ok?

I hope for theri own sake that information is wrong, or at the very least they TURN IT OFF! until they have a fix. This is now well beyond a joke

I only hope that it really is fixed this week.

Maybe if LL offered viewer 1 as a download it would help, but how can you use V1 when you get messages telling you you have to update and then you can't log in if you dont? It is indeed an option for older machines and one which I think should be considered. And forgive me but why should anyone be forced to update to use SL? I hear it so often but not one person explains why. After all if it's a toss up between spending money you maybe don't have or logging in to SL, then SL will lose out and therefore lose custom. ie. they lose a chunk of custom. It was been pointed out that they programme on business machines, with ultimate specs. Graphics are improving as a result, but I know of very few people in world who can actually benefit from being able to use high graphics. That's the main reason I can't use the official viewers anymore.

I'm not a techie nor am I a programmer but you missed a couple there. I, too, am running on a laptop which is all of 3 years old. I can only use coolviewer to log in now, and no one has yet given me a satisfactory answer, nor provided me with the money, as to why I shouild have to get a new graphics card for something I've been using for 4 years now. And get a gaming machine just for SL? If I had the money to afford that then I wouldn't need SL. We also have the 'let's rush things in without getting them fully tested' which has led to the current panic over excessive downloads. This one is simply beyond belief too. Either roll back until it's fixed, or turn it off until it's fixed. Restricting paying users is never a good business idea. And dont forget the customer service. Then again that's actually easy to forget. I do agree, Coventina, that every one blames us when something goes wrong because our machines blah blah blah, and yes a couple of weeks later things miraculously return to normal. So, then, not us. My main problem is a very simple one. Communication. I didn't agree when Rodvik started using communication tools outside of this forum, but at least there was an avenue for communication. Now it seems that he, too, no longer wishes to keep the users, and fee payers, informed of anything. I've just read somewhere else on the forum, that new members can benefit from a 50% reduction in membership fees. Just once it would be nice to remember that there are loyal, long standing customers here already who may appreciate some consideration in return for their loyalty. No use getting plenty of new members, when the lag, crashes, and excessive bandwidth will not keep them. So much better to make sure bugs are ironed out before offering these so called incentives - you get a much better retention rate if you do.

^5

So you go to a pizza place. Eat a pizza, Get food poisoning. Have hospital bills to pay. I take it if the pizza company just didn't reply to you, you'd feel great about eating there again? Get real cincia and less off the comments about 'demanding' 'nanny state' and the rest of the nonsense. Every paying customer of every organisation anywhere in the world has the righ to a certain level of information. Not all of it, but enough to be informed and feel their custom is valued. You can attack people all you like for asking to know whats going on. Bottom line - if the customers aren't informed that means unhappy customers, That means they leave and the people who suffer - well guess what. It's the company because they lose revenue. Seriously It's in their own interest to communicate. Stop making out it isn't.