Seven Overdrive

Sadly, I think you are correct about the tier prices. LL will go out of business before they lower tier. It is great that they are trying to add value to private regions, but the fact remains that even if LL could make private regions sing and dance through new features, that $300 per month is a price point that will remain out of reach for a large majority of people. There is certainly room for another product between a full region and a homestead. I hope they consider something like that in the near future. It wouldn't be as great as a drop in tier prices, but would give more options for the residents budgets (as long as they don't destroy the value of owning one by forcing people to pay estate barons for them like they did with homesteads). Steam will be a good thing for SL whether it is listed as a game or a creativity tool. If they list it as a creativity tool then they will be targeting more builders and sellers. If they target gamers then they will potentially be targeting more shoppers/consumers. But, no matter how it is listed on Steam, that $300 per month price point for private building space is going to be a big turn off for many.

Griffin Ceawlin wrote: Sassy Romano wrote: You have to have pixel sex within a week or your account is automatically deleted. Which Linden is in charge of keeping track of all that? Voyeur Linden of course. :smileylol:

Innula Zenovka wrote: It's been suggested (by someone who has professional RL experience of this area) that the obvious place for SL to be listed in Steam is under the "Creative Tools" category, which would help direct it towards the people who're most likely to find it interesting. To my mind, it's a very positive move. It gives SL access to a list of some 40 million people, some of whom are surely going to find it enjoyable, and also rather undercuts all the people who've been writing it off since all the wild hype of 2006/2007 failed to materialise. I will be surprised if LL doesn't list SL under a gaming category since, even though Steam will be offering more than just games, the largest demographics are the under 18 and 18-24 age groups. With the push to upgrade the graphics of SL and the introduction of advanced creator tools, I am thinking LL will want a big slice of that pie and it would be hard to ignore. The fact is, LL needs to get themselves into a position so they are no longer so dependent on tier for their revenue and a huge influx of new people will give LL more room to do so (especially if a good portion of the new arrivals can be convinced to stay and go premium). From what I have read about the upcoming changes to Steam, people will be able to use their Steam Wallets for the other non-game offerings that are coming to their store. How LL will use this to their advantage, or not, is a big unknown.

Herry Maltz wrote: I agree but I used to run a very large gaming community that supported a number of Steam games. Look at minecraft for example, absolutely terrible graphics with building and yet its popular. Garry's mod with a similar aspect. I ran into many games that were free and on steam, that people would join just to cause problems (aka troll) because it was free and they were bored of their primary game. That's what I'm afraid of seeing here. Then say we do have masses of these individuals bored of their main game and coming on here to cause trouble? I could certainly be wrong, but spending three years dealing with these people on a daily basis... I'm willing to bet I won't be wrong and I can almost guarantee its not going to bring in much in the way of premium memberships which I feel LL is hoping to achieve by this move. Maybe sell some land through private estates but overall far more users at the expense of LL as the cost of providing the service will increase. That was one of the reasons that I ended up shutting down my servers. Another was denial of service attacks on servers that were being popular. Granted, I'm unsure if they could really touch SL with denial of service but I reckon it wouldn't be too hard to do which would be one of the many ways that our experience as paying residents could get messed with. Computer wise, with the price drop in technology its not that hard to get a machine that runs things well. Sure few years ago you'd be paying a grand or more for a decently put together machine but now... Its far easier to keep your machine up to par without spending an arm, leg and ear. (bolding is mine) I too was thinking they may offer premium memberships through Steam. Who knows.. this may actually improve the retention rate if more go premium from the start. If that is the case, I really wouldn't expect most to ever go beyond the Linden Home trap for a very long time (if at all), so I wouldn't count on private estates seeing much benefit from it.

Drew Bhalti wrote: With the "old bit of news" you do realize that nothing ever happend besides them getting ahold of it. no fraud, no misuse, nothing, go check the official steam forums out. if there was an issue with the info inside that encrypted DB being cracked, it would of caused a panic. (bolded the part I am responding to) Which is enough incentive for me to not have my SL account linked to Steam. Doesn't matter to me that they may have not done anything with the data. The fact that they did obtain it still gives me pause.

mikka Luik wrote: Good point on the demographic, brought to mind this old bit of news especially the part where it says 'Valve has advised users - or their parents' =^^= Made me smile Oh yes. THAT bit of news. Thanks for reminding me of why I probably won't be linking SL to my Steam account. On another note... I vaguely remember someone from the lab (maybe Rod?) mentioning the possible addition of gamer achievements or tags during some discussion about bringing last names back. I suppose this will be one way of implementing those and makes me wonder how deeply the Steam client will be integrated (if at all) into the SL viewer that is downloaded through Steam.

I hope the huge under 18 demographic bring their allowance with them. Just kidding. :smileytongue: Does this mean SL is officially now a game? hehe

I really do not experience much lag since I upgraded to a more than adequate computer. I only experience "lag" when I wander into unfortunate regions that are not built/optimized well (mostly mainland regions). Somehow I don't expect that to ever change no matter what new "shinies" or hardware LL throws at the problem (especially if LL insists on stuffing even more regions per server). Many residents will always push things to the breaking point with very little restraint, but that is the price of creative freedom.

Trolling the community forums for a reaction could be a sign of mental illness I suppose. PS - I wonder how long it will take for this thread to be locked or mysteriously vanish. :smileyindifferent:

jwenting wrote: "Remember First Land? It was gamed to death by land flippers" which is most likely exactly why the idea was abandoned. It was abused to fleece beginning land owners rather than empower them. Linden Homes don't suffer from that as they can't be resold or rented out. Not perfect, but protects inexperienced users from parasites who abuse the system as a get rich quick scheme by ripping off the unwary. So your idea of selling your old land for L$100 per meter no longer works that you paid L$1 for from the Lindens a few days ago. Oh the pain I feel for you NOT! I'm not sure why you chose to take that one line out of context. It was clearly not advocating a return to a failed program. It was only an example of how LL once encouraged new residents to buy mainland. The topic of the thread was about all the abandoned Mainland that is not generating revenue. Linden Homes may protect inexperienced residents from the "parasites" as you put it, but until I see some stats on how many of those new LH residents are trading their way up to Mainland or a Private estate parcel, I will reserve my judgment on if they are being empowered. Until I see equal advertising for mainland as an option for new residents, I will remain convinced that the Lab would prefer everyone be in an easily managed Linden Home or on a private estate where most of the support falls to the estate owners and not the Lab. So... Do you have any thoughts on the topic of this thread?

Bored people are boring people? Some people are just so easily amused that watching paint dry on a wall would be an exciting activity for them. Look at how popular watching an avatar dance for hours is in SL. I think it depends on what people use SL for. For example, say a person uses SL to build things. He likes to build in private and enjoys creating large immersive scenes, so sandboxes are not an option. He once had a private island to build on but the high price eventually became too much to continue to pay. $300 per month was a lot more than his family's cable bill for every channel offered including telephone and the internet connection included. To cancel all of that so he could continue enjoying his private digital space to build in would have been selfish, so of course the island had to go. Watching his avatar dance never appealed to him, nor did shopping for clothes. Exploring was ok for a little while, but he could count the places that impressed him the most on one hand. The rest all looked the same. Exploring also made him miss the freedom he once enjoyed to build whatever was in his mind when he had his own creative space. Now you would never hear him complain about being bored. He would simply log off for weeks at a time, only popping back in for a few minutes to respond to old offline IMs, before logging back out again. The one activity he enjoyed in SL was no longer an option due to the cost., but he was hardly a boring person. Boring people don't like creating their own experiences. They only like to be spoon-fed their entertainment. So yes, for some, there is literally nothing to do in SL, which would probably explain why user retention and online concurrency is low. Maybe all the bored people should just log out and never return so they aren't "wasting resources". Somehow I doubt LL would like the outcome of that though. :smileytongue:

Perhaps the owner of that avatar would disagree with you. Don't really know. I was more put off by SL being represented by giant dancing avatars. Which, IMO, is the most boring and mindless activity one can engage in, in SL. But nothing is stopping anyone else from creating their own video that represents SL from their own point of view I suppose.

bejjinks wrote: ... I believe in freedom of religion instead of freedom from religion. ... Freedom from religion is included in freedom of religion. You have the freedom to practice your own personal beliefs the same as others have the freedom to not practice those same beliefs. bejjinks wrote: ... I believe that we don't have to be brainwashed by the government to establish peace. And I will fight for the right of people to resist political brainwashing regardless of whether the political brainwashing is Christian, Muslim, or Atheist in origin. I believe in freedom of speech but that freedom meant the freedom to criticize the government. It was not meant as a freedom to bully and harass people. ... Well here is what I believe... I believe that we don't have to be brainwashed by religion to establish peace. And I will fight for my own right to resist religious brainwashing regardless of whether the religious brainwashing is Christian, Muslim, or whatever in origin. I believe in freedom of religion but that freedom means the freedom to practice, or not, the religion you believe in. It was not meant as a freedom to bully and harass people, like the constant harassment of gays and lesbians at the hands of some religious followers for example. bejjinks wrote: ...But people attack Christians thinking they can manipulate Christians. These people who attack Christianity are not being honest. We say that people who are violent against homosexuals are living in denial of their own homosexuality and I believe this is true. But I'm going to say the same thing about people who are violent against Christianity. People who are violently opposed to Christianity are trying desparately to supress the fact that deep down in their heart, they truly believe in God. ... I think those religious believers that feel "attacked" are people that tried to force their beliefs upon others and continued doing so even when they got rebuffed by the real victims that didn't share the same beliefs. The passing of laws based on a certain religion's belief system would be another reason for backlash by non-believers of that faith or of any faith. Personally I do get tired of some Christians behaving like victims when their forced sermons get rejected by the disinterested. As for the story of your cat Fred... Being gay is not some rash that needs to be fixed or cured. Sorry you feel that way and I hope you find the peace you are seeking. Just remember it is something you need to come to terms with and not something you need to save others from unless they ask you to. And... Is there freedom of religion in SL? Sure there is. Practice whatever religion you want in SL... Just expect to get ejected and banned from any place that doesn't want to hear your sermon.

Madelaine McMasters wrote: Qie Niangao wrote: I imagine they're also worried that whatever it is that's discouraging retention is also poisoning those new arrivals such that they'll never come back, so the more marketing they do, the more they're shrinking their future market. I agree, Qie. This has been my theory since LL announced crossing 20,000 new signups/day over a year ago, as if that was a positive achievement. I'd be making SL as invisible as possible until I figured out how to retain new customers. They are currently growing the population of people who will never again visit SL by 14,000/day. Good points. Among SL's successes and accomplishments, I really wouldn't consider turning thousands of people off to the platform daily (for whatever the reasons are why they never return), as a positive one. Those numbers add up fast. Best to fix user retention before doing any heavy marketing.

As the stats started to decline or stagnate, LL started removing them from the economic reports and labeling them unnecessary. It got to the point that people didn't believe what LL was reporting anymore and they would take a lot of heat on the blog for what was reported. Finally they just stopped with the reports altogether. LL gets beat up every time they announce anything, so that is probably why they no longer do so. Would be nice to know what the future holds though.

I'm premium because it is basically free for me. I do have a Linden Home, but not because I really want one. I have one because I can't afford the land product I want (a private island or homestead), and would never be satisfied with anything less than that. The Linden Home is just a convenient place to unpack items I bought and fit them to my avatar.

Good counterarguments, except for the last part about sim prices. My point had little to do with how much or little you get for the cost of the sim and more to do with the cost of being able to build your imagination without the pollution of others. Like the person that moves in next door that is fixated with giant rotating purple phalli. Or the person next to them that encloses their land in a big ugly box in an attempt to remove other builds from their view. For me, the only product SL offers that truly allows you the freedom to build what their slogan says, is a private island. If I could buy a homestead directly from them without having to give free money to a middleman just for the privilege, I could easily live within the prim limits of those as well. That was what I meant.

Honestly, there really isn't anything that could make SL more inviting that hasn't already been tried or is being done currently. I believe that only a small segment of the population gets virtual worlds or are even interested by them. It may not be OK for the company running the virtual world, but it is OK for me. I think many people log in and find SL to be either, not what they were expecting, or just not their cup of tea. SL often reminds me of the expression "A Jack of all trades, master of none." . It can be a game, but not a great game when compared to what is available out there. Or a collaborative tool, but not an efficient tool compared to products designed only for that. So it isn't hard for me to assume that is a big reason why people do not stick around for long. I think it also true that many find out rather quickly that SL really isn't free. Especially when they find themselves standing next to that avatar wearing $30 dollars worth of stuff. Sure you can hunt for quality freebies to put together a decent avatar, but not many new people are going to know this or have the patience to do so. As for improving things for the current population... lowering sim prices to make "Your World, Your Imagination" more accessible to more people would be the biggest thing I think.

Your logic is flawed. "Blame the customers" only works if you are a Ferengi. :smileytongue: Don't forget that SL is, so far, the only viable virtual world platform with no real competition. Just because people stay doesn't mean they are happy. It is just that there aren't really any comparable alternatives. Every suggestion given is the same repeated suggestions through the years here. Apparently none of them are worth it for the Lab to even consider. LL charges $300 dollars per month for the privilege of being able to build "Your World, Your Imagination", any thing less than that and you must share your imagination space with others. So forgive me if I am not willing to go the extra mile for them. At the prices they charge, I really shouldn't have to.

Parenting begins at home. Not in an online virtual world. If you feel your child is not mature enough to deal with the imaginary online boogeymen, then perhaps it is best to make him wait until he is 18. What you are suggesting would completely change Second Life for the worse.

Boudicca Littlebird wrote: We all agree that times are hard. We see from another forum that the CEO is at a loss on how to make people stay. What can we do to help SL in their task to make people stay. In another thread that pointed out the CEO went to another place to speak and not here, showed a lot of indignation of the event happening but didn't really offer solutions, it talked more about what SL could do for them. As someone quite famous said "it is not what they can do for us, it is about what we can do for them". So what can we do to make things better and help the CEO in his task of helping people stay. I have to beg to differ. LL is a company that we pay. We are already doing our service to them. So it is really about what they can do for us. Not the other way around. The CEO is the one getting paid the big bucks to helm the company. If he has no bright ideas as to how to improve business, then perhaps he is not the right person for the job. In fact, the only thing that has separated this one from his predecessors is he hasn't had the honor of dropping a bombshell on the community yet, which I would say we are probably overdue for.

Rayven Baily wrote: So we all know copybotting clothing is a no no... and it should be. The designer puts work into creating the object. So I cleaned out my inventory the other day and found several things I have bought and never wore.. cause well, they didn't look as good as they did in the store manipulated photo. So copy botting is a big no no.. but misleading people to buy your prouct with alter photos is "ok"? I guess its all about buying Lindens and spending lindens.. If Linden Labs cares (and they should) a standard should be made where a demo of the product should be made available or the cutomer can get their money back in a 48 hour claim . Afterall in the real world I could return the product... why should this be any different? It's really no different than advertising in the real world. That Big Mac never seems to look like the one in the commercials. Mascara commercials are done with false eyelashes. Skin care brands use 17 year old models for their wrinkle creme ads. Advertising has always exaggerated the appearance or abilities of products so it is no surprise it happens in SL too. Customer reviews of products, if they aren't fake, can help bring to light the reality of a product as compared to its hyped up appearance in an ad. While I don't think it would be feasible for LL or merchants to offer a return window of time for purchases, I do not see it as much of a hardship for creators to plaster demo all over their finished clothes so the purchaser can get an idea how the item will look on them. But... as others have said... Buyer Beware.

Last names aren't really lost. You can have a display name with a first and last name. LL just needs to do a better job at explaining to new residents at sign-up the difference between the account / user name and the display names that can be used in-world. I too miss the last names, but really do not see them coming back anytime soon, if at all. Even though I completely support the return of last names, I decided to have a one name display name rather than my old first and last name. Go figure.

I agree that scenario is grim and it is completely based on my fuzzy memory of the LHs survey. Even if I cannot remember the complete details in it, one thing was very clear... The point of the survey was to get opinions on how to make the LHs offering better. IMO that doesn't bode well for the mainland. Why solicit opinions about how to make them better when they have all that available mainland at their disposal? Plus, they only advertise the LHs as a perk for signing up for premium. They don't equally advertise the mainland as an option. I find that to be very telling. It really wouldn't surprise me if the mainland is being left to just wither on the vine while they only try and push new premium members into the LHs. That really is the only thing that makes sense to me and eventually they will have to shake things up a little to balance the whole land market and some group of people will probably end up getting the short end of the stick. Somehow I doubt it will be the estates. But who knows. Maybe they have a brilliant secret plan in the works that will make everyone a winner. Doesn't hurt to have some optimism I suppose. ETA: I do remember the lifetime premium accounts, but I think I just missed them when I signed up in mid 2005. I would love to see that return. The only thing with that is, LL is a completely different company now than it was back then and any special offer like that would most likely need to be fairly cost prohibitive so the estates remain stable. It would most likely be too expensive for me, but I think others would enjoy it.

Or perhaps the long term goal is to ween the mainlanders over to the Linden Homes. It would be cheaper and more manageable for the Lab and completely automated if people were in managed communities. People that wanted more would be funneled to the more expensive private estates which would mean more private estate sales with less support costs. It has been awhile since I saw the survey, but I seem to recall a question asking how the Linden Homes could be improved and I would have sworn one of the selectable options was a larger plot of land (might have been just a bigger house and not more prims, but can't remember). I wish I could go back and look at it to verify because my memory isn't what it used to be. Maybe someone else that took the same survey could verify that.