Matrice Laville

Feynt Mistral wrote: Do I need to keep all the bones? Can I relink everything so they're properly oriented and relationally everything makes sense at a glance? Are Collada files acceptable for animations yet? Or are they still just for mesh and bone positions? Assuming I can't relink all the bones, what is considered the bone's location? Blender doesn't use the bone's mid point, it only gives the head and tail positions. You can use any subset of bones in your models. But you need to maintain the bone relationship. When you work with joint offsets (edited skeletons) then for each bone that you actually use, you must also include all parent bones which have joint positions defined regardless if you use them or not. You need to follow the parenting up to mPelvis in that case. You have to maintain the bone relationship. the location of the joints can be edited. Collada files are only used for the skeleton, mesh and weighting information. Collada animations are not supported with the SL Importer. The Bone Head in Blender corresponds to the Joints in other 3D tools. the bone orientation vector in Blender normalized(bone_tail - bone_head) is equivalent to the joint rotation matrix in other 3D tools Question: From where do you get the "wrong" skeleton information? Are you importing from a dae file ? which one?

I found the reason why the eyes need to be scaled up by 7 % . This is indeed a wrong lad definition based on a wrong scaled mesh eye. I overlooked that the mesh generator in Avastar scaled the eyes up by a factor of 1.074 while reading the mesh definitions. Here is what we think is the correct lad definition: <param id="30689" group="1" name="EyeBone_Big_Eyes" value_min="-1.1" value_max="1.1"> <param_skeleton> <bone name="mEyeLeft" scale="0.248 0.25 0.25" offset="0 0 0" /> <bone name="mEyeRight" scale="0.248 0.25 0.25" offset="0 0 0" /> <bone name="mFaceEyeAltLeft" scale="0.248 0.25 0.25" offset="0 0 0" /> <bone name="mFaceEyeAltRight" scale="0.248 0.25 0.25" offset="0 0 0" /> </param_skeleton></param> The min/max values are -1.1, 1.1 to compensate that the system eye morphs "overscale" at the slider end positions. The different scale in X compensates the morph's different scaling along the "look forward axis" The above is based on tests with meshes generated with our current development version of Avastar (Alpha 6 still uses the overscaled eyes, so you can not use it for further tests on the eyes) But i think we also need an ... independent test outside of Blender Replace the param 30689 in the avatar_lad.xml of the bento viewer by the definition above. On windows you find the file at C:\Program Files (x86)\SecondLifeProjectBento\character\avatar_lad.xml Create a Mesh eye model that precisely matches the mesh size of the System eyes (the exact definition is in C:\Program Files (x86)\SecondLifeProjectBento\character\avatar_eye.llm) This is the critical step, see below! (*) Weight the model to mEye[Left|Right] Create another model that is weighted to mFaceEyeAlt[Left|Right] upload both models and check if they behave similar to the system eyes. (check they have about the same size with all appearance slider positions, this can be done best in wireframe mode) (*) How to get a good approximation of the system mesh eyes 3 alternatives: - If you can read the avatar_eye.llm file then you should be able to create a precise mesh model (This is how we do it in Avastar) - You can create a default shape in SL, then open the Avatar appearance editor and set the head size to 72 and the eye size to 50. This seems to almost reproduce the neutral head shape. Now your viewer can possibly export the eyes as .obj or even as .dae in the correct size. - Possibly some older pre-mesh definition files of the system avatar contain "correct" eyes. But i would not count on that. Thanks for any feedback

Leviathan Flux wrote: I am having all kinds of issues with the latest skeleton update. Can you tell which update worked for you and since which update your issues started? Is this only related to Fitted mesh or do you also get issues when you export classic rigged characters without using weighting to the Collision volume bones?

Vistanimations wrote: We have a problem with the finger bones pivots. They are not aligned, and it makes rare or incorrect bones rotations. Can you give some more detailed examples how the finger rig is wrong and what you expect to see instead?

I initially calculated the eye scale to <0.25, 0.25, 0.25> Those numbers made most sense to me first and they worked reasonably well in Avastar. At that time i found a small deviation of the Scale in the X axis in Avastar. But when i moved the lad definition to the Bento viewer the scales (when all sliders are applied) went completely out of control at the extreme slider settings (0 and 100). I ended up with a day of experimenting and testing directly in Aditi. The resulting numbers are now in the lad definition. But i recall we had some other oddities with the Head Shape slider and Head Length slider. Those oddities disappeared suddenly after i reduced the complexity of those sliders for the Bento bones. This happened after i worked on the eyes. Maybe the changes in the head sliders also affected the eye size sliders and the oddities there disappeared also? I tested your settings in Avastar and it appears to work well there. Have you tested this lad definition in the Bento viewer?

For the Collad export options: If you disable "Only weighted Bones" AND "Only Deform Bones" then all 368 Bones of the Rig get exported. You better enable at least one of the 2 options when you intend to import to Second Life.

To get the teeth working correct you must weight the upper teeth to the mFaceTeethUpper bone and the lower teeth to the mFaceTeethLower Bone. Take care that each vertex of the teeth mesh is weighted only to its correcponding tooth bone. As soon as you add weight for other bones to the teeth mesh, the result becomes unpredictable.

hey Gael, thanks for the feedback. This issue is fixed by now. The fix is available in Avastar-2.0-alpha_6_blender-2-77.zip (already published)

Last night we have updated to Avastar-2 Alpha 5. The update uses the most recent Bento Skeleton definition and lad files. The reported distortions on the face should be fixed.

As far as i know this can be related to a wrong bone roll setting.

Teager wrote: I believe that may be a problem in avastar. I get the same result when I use the "update rig" button The update rig tool is still not fully working. I will take a look into this soon. But we first have to finalize the slider support.

The scaling of the system eyes is controlled by morphs and the slider definition uses multiple overlapping ranges which result in a not exactly linear dependency. For the Alt Eyes we decided to use the slider setting for 0 and 100 as reference markers and then make a linear interpolation. This results in some deviation between system eyes and alt eyes in the slider mid range. The differing scale value value_max="0.56" was necessary to map the eye scaling of the alt eyes to the scaling of the system eyes. We could use the slider midpoint (50) as third reference marker and split the lad definition into 2 overlapping ranges. This probably gives more precise matches. In whihc cases is this relevant? Mel Vanbeeck wrote: This lack of a neutral position for all involved bones results in a discrepancy between what you see in modeling tools and what you see after importing. Our tool are prepared to display bones for arbitrary slider settings (also for the alt eyes) exactly in the same way as they are displayed in Second Life.

Mel Vanbeeck wrote: That file is clearly very messed up. Can you give more details about where the file is clearly messed up? The Jaw Bone is missing in the files that we created on 12 july because the collada exporter dropped all bones which are not used for weighting. This is an intentional optimization to only provide the used bones. This optimization was discussed in the bento meetings a couple of months ago (allow partial rigs). I do not see where the collada files are messed up. The files from 15 july have been exported with the "include all animation bones" option and the jaw bone is again available in the dae (although it is not used for weighting the models)

Those .dae have been exported with Avastar's default settings... I have created 2 new demo files: A female demo model (Collada file) A male demo model (Collada file) I also forwarded the new files to Vir Linden for adding them to the wiki. Attention: I did not check if the files can upload to SL (they should be ok though)

mFaceJaw is there and very alive. If you refer to Avastar then you need to know about a recently added change: By default Avastar exports only the bones which are used for weighting in at least one of the exported meshes. We have moved the weights from the jaw bone to the jaw shaper bone some days ago (in our default models). Consequently new exported meshes possibly do not include the jaw bone (by default). The Collada exporter has options to enforce the export of all animation bones including those which are not used on the exported meshes: Open the advanced export options. The provided tool tips should be self explaining. If they are not, then please complain !