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Shockwave Yareach

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Blog Comments posted by Shockwave Yareach


  1. @Drake

    I have a small (and I mean really small) marketplace store.  And while I consider myself an advanced builder, I'm not a merchant.  I'm in SL to have fun, and the stuff in the marketplace is only my most useful (or useless but fun) gadgets I've invented.  So no, I'm not in SL to make money, but rather SL is how I spend my recreation hours.  So I AM one of those creators who creates just for the fun of it, and I pump 110$ a month into SL in pure green US cash to do so.

    Since you are only 2 years here, I'll give you the nickle history guide.  When I first arrived 6 years ago, there were few rules, no sim ratings, no teens (officially), and you owned your land.  You could gamble in the same room where naked women danced atop of farm animals if that was your thing.  But bit by bit, the world changed from "Your world your imagination" to "Our world as permitted in vol 1 - 23 of the TOS".  You weren't allowed to be X or Y except in certain conditions.  You weren't allowed to partake of Z in your own house.  Etc, etc. We have been regulated to death.  The mainland is a hodgepodge of sim ratings, and all a teen has to do to witness some nice hot humping action is look over any border into an M parcel house.

    And the serious tech problems have not been looked at over the last 6 years, much less fixed.

    LL has for the better part of a decade utterly ignored what the customers have been screaming while they embarked on their power trip, trying to prove to the world that SL is not a game by... eliminating anything that might be fun within it.  We have been told in years past to take or silliness and git since that didn't fit GrupenFuerer Kingdon's vision of turning SL into a Business to Business tool. 

    You want joy?  You want happy?  We used to have that a long time ago and those of us (who are left and are ) growling at the lab still, we want it back!  There is a glimmer of hope in the new CEO comprehending that SL is not a cable channel where everything must be super serious (because the webz is serious bizznezz).  He understands that it's more like a cable system, with a thousand different things for a thousand different likes.  I'm pleased to see that.  But as much as I'd like to go to the mainland, beat a tambourine and sing Kumbaya, the damages from the previous guy are STILL sinking the ship.  And as much as I want Rodvick to succeed, he cannot if the entire virtual world disappears beneath his feet.  People are dumping sims in droves because they can't afford it anymore and all their friends have quit.  Newcomers are not hanging around because land costs so much and there aren't any people around.

    On the gripping hand, if the tier doesn't drop some, if the UI to V3 isn't improved, and if the community boards aren't returned to the newcomers entry points, concurrency and the associated land size will continue to shrink.  Making the TOS simpler rather than legalese drawn up by a prudish lawyer would also allow people to actuall (imagine) have fun in SL again instead of worrying about which microscopic rule they are breaking just talking with friends in their own home but overheard by someone on the road.  People don't pay money to have their property (land: see ownership) taken away from them and being abused by the staff for playing pixelated games.  People come to SL to, as you put it, have a good time.  And as SL overall is now as much fun as an antibacterial wipe, they aren't hanging around.  The fun has to return and the fun has to be affordable for the oldtimers AND the newbs to hang around.  Today, we have but a pale shadow of the fun we used to have.

  2. September Update


    @Cincia:  Ah, but you see, that's just it.  We DO love SL -- the original SL we had before GrupenFuerer Kingdon tried to beat it into a powerpoint presenter.  We want the days of freedom and silly times back.  And much change and repair will need to be made before such a party attitude can exist in SL once again.  Wandering mainland USED to be fun, barring the odd griefer attack.  It would be nice if I could once again wander the mainland and see neat stuff and meet neat people, like I did 5 years ago.

    It would also be nice if the tech problems from 5 years back were fixed.  Half a decade, and we still have simcrossing issues and max people counts in sims.  From an engineering perspective, that's pathetic beyond belief.

  3. September Update


    Okay!!  So, LL has seen some light and realized that lowering a price will get them more sales.  Huzzah, yippee, and hot buttered squid-on-a-stick for everyone. 

    Now, if they can figure out that permanent lowering of prices on land and tier will bring about lots more land sales, just as lowering the price (albiet temporarily) on premium gets them more premium memberships (for 3 months anyways), then there just may be some hope for SL after all.  We now have a CEO who grasps the simple fact that we are in Second Life to do things we cannot do in Real Life.  This is outstanding.  Once he also figures out that he can get more customers and money by fixing the excessive cost of the land, this ship will finally stop sinking and we can get back to fixing the long-standing technical problems again. 

    Let's say you have 1000 islands at 300dollars a month.  You change the price to 200dollars.  Suddenly people begin buying up islands, and all those servers that were idle (and you still have to pay for) are in service again, making you money.  Suppose only 75% growth occurs.  You were making 300,000 a month before the price cut.  With 75% more islands, you now make 350,000 a month.  And the additional people this brings in means more L sales and purchases inworld too.

    The customer isn't always right, but they are always the customer, until they decide to take their money and go.  LL has driven far too many of the deep-pockets away, and as they are learning (and as we warned them 2+ years ago) those willing to pay outrageous amounts for something they don't own are the first and second adopters.  After them, the money starts drying up quickly.  LL can forget about churn solving its problems with land sales -- the newcomers aren't buying, partly due to price, partly due to the lab's reputation for shenanigans.  Lowering tier and purchase price for the land is critical for improving land sales.  And no amount of social media gadgets nobody can find (is it really so hard to add a button on the homepage?) or mesh or shadows will cause more people to buy fake land that they no longer get to own, but is still priced as if we own it. 

    The improvements this year have been nice.  But they don't fix the real problem, and LL knows it.


  4. Geez LL.  I want to give you guys credit for all your hard work.  But that's really difficult when you can't even announce a contest right.  Only 2 days to make an avatar for a contest?  This needed to be announced at least two weeks ago.

    For a communications company, you have serious problems communicating, either telling things to us or hearing things from us. 

    *EDIT*  I'm now being informed that the sponsors themselves gave LL only 2 days of notice.  Thus it's not LL's fault, and I withdraw my criticism of the lab for this.

    However, may I suggest that whoever is in charge of LL promotion, require that any notice LL makes about contests be at least 10 days before the deadline?  It does neither LL nor the contest sponsor any good to publicize said event with an impossibly short time to join in on the fun. 


  5. @natales: That LL has my credit card can hardly be construed as a declaration of Trust.  They have it because I buy L with it and pay for my rental with it.  They have that particular credit card because I can take it from their greedy hands with nothing but a phone call to my bank.  A better declaration of trust would be their posession of my business CC, something they will never even get a glimpse of now.

    A true declaration of trust would be my continued premium account and ownership of that one island and four Open Spaces around it - attached to my group's existant island chain - that I was weeks from purchasing to demonstrate a rapid assembly simulation technique to the parent outfit.  Rather than create the workflow with actual hardware in a hanger over 6 months, do it in a virtual hanger in only one.  That would be <b>serious</b> money for a serious application rather than this play money they get from me now.  I walked away from said purchase and dropped the premium when the lab's bait and switch with Open Space came about.  So yes, I voted with my wallet.  Lots of people are still voting with their wallets, as the dropping numbers displayed in Gridsurvey (dot) com illustrate. 

    I'm an engineer and a businessman in RL.  I know how hard it is to get a customer's trust back once you've lost it, even accidently.  LL's actions have not been accidental and regaining enough trust that people will turn over several K$ a year for "nothing" is a daunting task.  If we don't "Own" the virtual property, then don't price it like we do. 


  6. @Pegysus - I appreciate your telling what it's like from a newcomer's point of view.  We who have been in for years can forget what it was like when we were new, and sometimes we need reminded.

    On the negativity though, one thing that will shock you is the fact that from 2006 to 2008, I was one of the lab's biggest cheerleaders.  I pooh poohed all the old timers who complained about the glacial pace of improvements and the glitchiness of the overall system, saying that a system as complex as this is bound to have development problems.  But the harsh fact is that SL's problems are not technological; they are managerial.  It is managerial incompetence trying to turn a virtual playground into a powerpoint presenter and telling everyone to pack up their fun and "git!" that has done most of the harm in SL.  It is managerial incompetence that directed the company to implement Bait And Switch tactics that we now refer to as the "Open Space Fiasco" and "Zindra debacle".  And when even those of us that supported the lab could not count on them delivering the product that they were paid to deliver, it was the last straw and the lab saw even it's biggest supporters turn against them. 

    The ship LL is today sinking, with user numbers and concurrency sinking every month.  The lab repeatedly shoots itself in the foot when there's no logic to it, then blames the users who are spending lots and lots of cash and standing by the lab through thick and thin.  So while yes, there is some negativity here, you should have been around 1.5 years ago -- now THAT was a snake pit.  Today is nowhere near as bad because so many people found other ways to spend their millions of dollars a month with companies that don't treat their customers hostily like LL does.  Those of us remaining and complaining are the die-hards who remember what SL used to be and what they'd like to see SL return to once again -- a playground where you can be anything and do anything.  But we cannot do that when struggling with the 23 volumes of TOS and Linden policies regarding land costs and the Marketplace that make owning land a sucker's bet.

    The negativity is because we fell in love with Second Life of old.  And the only reason we don't have it still today is because of idiots who couldn't leave a good thing alone and ruined it.  We want it back, or at the very least we don't want the current pale shadow of what we used to have to go bankrupt.  So please, forgive us for the negativity.  We aren't complaining because we love the blue shade our faces turn to.  We do so because we hope and pray that once in awhile, something we complain about will actually get fixed.  And under the current CEO, a couple of things actually have been fixed.  But there is so much damage the previous chimpEO did that remains to be fixed.  And if the critical tasks aren't addressed soon, you may not be able to stay in world long enough to become a "complainer" like me, as the world will vanish right out from under your prim boots.


  7. @Adam - well, I suppose we could shoehorn mesh editor in with the Sound creation area.  Oh wait, there has NEVER been a sound creation area in the viewer.  Silly me.  We can stick it in the tab for the Texture editing area instead, then.  Wait a minute, there has never been a texture editor either.  Nor has there been a pose editor, or a BVH creator or an animation creator or a Heightfield File editor...

    Why so many of you blast SL for not having Photoshop built in but continue to take photos with your digital cameras that likewise doesn't have photoshop built in, completely amazes me.  You cannot make a movie without a video editor and you cannot create a 3D world without learning some 3D tools either.  That you can create some things with the basic tools the viewer gives you is great, I agree.  But other tools from companies who have forgotten more about 3D than LL will ever learn also exist, and some of them are even free.  There are lots and lots of tools already out for these well-documented standards.  Your refusal to make a texture because there is no texture editor in the viewer is like saying you refuse to drive your car because Ford didn't produce the gas in the tank, either.  Who cares where the gas comes from? 

    If you don't wish to use PaintShopPro or Gimp or Audacity or Aniposer, that's your business -- nobody is saying you have to or you can't play in SL.  You can keep building with your wooden blocks all you like.  The rest of us who run more than one program on our computers at a time will be generating meshes that will totally revolutionize how SL looks, from realistic trees to ornate wall paneling to elaborate flying toasters. 

    And besides, adding in all those editors would make everyone crying about the size of the download explode in indignation -- How about a nice 250Meg download every couple of nights?  That is, if LL could actually build a working mesh or sound editor in the first place.  Seeing how poorly they've done anything else the past 3 years, I wouldn't bet money on them delivering anything usuable.

  8. Mesh Update: Part Deux


    @Dev Khaos:  I had a similar problem until recently.  I discovered that what was crashing was NOT VFS, but Dinput8.dll, part of directX9c.  It crashed whenever directX started to initialize because I had a particular device plugged into USB.  In my case, that was a PICKIT3 programming wand.

     

    Try unplugging USB devices and see if the lockup problem goes away.  When I go to SL, I have to unplug the PICKIT3 first.  This is a problem with some poor USB HID programming rather than LL's fault.  But yes, it's frustrating to have your 3D GPU not work because of something you have plugged into USB.  Strange problem and stranger solution, but I swear it's true.  And I am sure I'm not the only one to encounter it.


  9. @Pookiepie -- MANY of us screamed loudly that if the merger had to be done, that a G-rated continent had to be created and everyone else left alone.  But instead we got this junk solution which makes nobody happy, jeopardizes everyone and solves nothing -- all a teen has to do to buy a pe*is is go to Idu and cam into any of the shops in Mature land which surround the new arrivals area there.  All a teen has to do to see some really hot steaming sex scenes is cam into the sex-pose store to the SE and watch from the PG area of Idu.

    I even created a very simple solution to the disaster, suggesting that any M or A sim simply pass no data at all to people with the General bit set (teens).  The teens would see a world that looks much like Island areas, but not see anything which they should not.  This too was roundly ignored by LL. 

    Between the Zindra ghettoization and the teen merger, I think LL has shot itself in the foot two times too many to keep living as they are today.  A fundamental change that really fixes the issues in Mainland needs to be implemented that won't destroy the fun people have today.  Aside from lowering the prices of tier, LL should also simplify the TOS in the following manner:

    * all PG areas are no-sex areas, including your homes.  Violence and wargames are permitted only in sims/parcels where it is pointedly permitted and expected.  Sex furniture and naughty poseballs are also not permitted in PG, the most restrictive of areas. 

    * All M areas are nudity okay and sex okay, so long as it is not visible from public roads.  Public roads are considered PG areas within M and what you do in your parcel is your business as long as passersby don't have to watch.  Camming from the road or entering your parcel are not covered -- someone deliberately looking into homes or past decorative blocks are choosing to watch and so have no-one to blame but themselves.

    * All A areas can have anything and everything open and exposed, even on the public roads. 

     

    Simple, easy to understand, and fair.  Well, fair except to everyone who bought a home in PG believing the lie that what they did in their own homes was their business...


  10. @Ciaran: The heart of the Open Space mess was not that people bought the product.  The heart of the failure was that a) they did not test the new 4-sims-per-core design adequately and it turned out that current design maxes out at 3 sims per core.  b) LL told people repeatedly that they could own homes in those, then changed their minds after the fact.  c) Rather than admit their design and management failure with the new product, they blamed customers for violating unwritten rules and doing things they were pointedly told they were permitted to do, aka having homes.  d) They then jacked the prices so that three homesteads running on one core cost more than a full island sim also running on one core. 

    Had LL admitted it erred in thinking they could shoehorn 4 sims into one core and would need to raise the price so that there would be 3 per core, there would have been grumbling, but generally people would have accepted and paid the extra.  But being told that it was OUR fault, that the price would go up much more than a full sim for the same hardware used, and that we'd have limits of how many people could be on the land, and that we could either bend over and accept the bait-and-switch or quit... that was too much for most people.  Mistakes happen, most people understand.  But mistakes followed by baseless accusations and greedy (probably illegal) bait and switch swaps of what people bought was the straw that broke the prim-camel's back and began the decline of SL.  When nobody trusts your company to deliver the product paid for, your company will have great trouble convincing anyone to buy from you.


  11. @Mayson:  The forced march to the Adult Ghetto took place simultaneously as the integration of Xstreetsl.com into Second Life.  Xstreet was formerly a private enterprise called Second Life Exchange where a server talked with "Magic Boxes" via the llEmail command, and a person could search for anything placed in these boxes, buy them, and get them in under a minute.  LL had to purchase ALL the webbased systems not because their own systems sucked so badly, but because that was necessary to implement the new adult restrictions and the new Identification requirements.  If they forced the sex-part stores to Zindra, but the webbased stores still let little Johnny Rottenkid buy a P3nis without even being logged in, the whole facist control measure wouldn't have worked.  So to tie up a loose end in M's Ghetto march of the freaks and oddballs to their ghetto, LL had to buy the webbased store system whole hog.  And just killing it would have seen the rise of another within a month, so they had to give the customer what they wanted (for a change)


  12. @Ralph:  Well, I agree with you about Atlas -- giving a handful of land barons preferencial pricing, although legal, is pretty lame.  If they gave the same pricing to the rest of the grid, they'd have people adding sims left and right, and the money would flow in like water.  I don't know why this is so hard for the LL to figure out.

    But as for the people just wanting a place to socialize and buying a sim on a whim, sorry, but I don't agree.  Buying a sim is a serious step and people need to think of it as such.  Anybody not willing to turn their sim into their dream or their idea of utopia will likewise not care about it when they get bored and want to ditch it so they can go back to playing Rift or whatever.  We need people to build inventive, neat, fun stuff and hang around.  Rezzing cookie cutter homes and leaving after 2 months?  That's what happens in Mainland already, and it is not a pretty sight.  In fact, it's one thing that drove my entire group to getting an island chain, even if we have only 1/2 the islands now that we used to have.


  13. @Marielle:  Both have a place.  Both are necessary.  Sometimes I don't have time to take hours wandering stores -- I need that sculpty prim and I need it immediately.  Getting in marketplace gives it to me.  Sometimes I'm relaxing and exploring -- I need stores to wander and trip on something I didn't know existed. 

    It's not one or the other.  If you have only one but not the other, SL is diminished.  And SL eliminating their webstore would just see another nonLinden webstore rise in its place.  After all, the lindens simply bought out the SLexchange that was becoming wildly popular and forced it into the world, becoming Xstreetsl and then finally, Marketplace.  If SL were to can the marketplace tomorrow, within a week there would be yet another sales website in existance by another resident.  Why?  Because unlike SL search, a website for finding $item specifically set for sale works and works very well.  But it isn't as much fun as window shopping, I agree.  So make it so you have to have land in SL to have space in the webstore, and everyone is happy; everybody wins.


  14. @Ralph:  While I won't contest lowering the prices will improve land sales, I fail to understand the rest of your argument.  You can already sell entire sims and everything upon it to whoever wants to pay for it.  We've been buying and selling (and advertising) land sales -- mainland and estate -- for years. 

    As an aside, there is provably zero demand for a ready made, turnkey island sim.  People buying such expect it to look like they want and to illuminate their dreams, not someone else's.  During project Enterprise (late 2009 to mid 2010) SL had pay-and-go island sims available which came with housing, meeting areas, exploration areas, ready to go with the press of a button.  To my knowledge, not a single one of those turnkey estates were ever sold or rezzed.  People buy islands to create their own vision, be it made by the owner or by hired builders who bring the owner's vision to life for them.


  15. @Marielle:  A simple solution to Marketplace is to limit the number of items in the store to 10 items + (number of m^2 the land which the magic box sits supports divided by 50.)  This gives a free start to anyone but ties the inworld store and the web store together.  Got a 512m parcel?  You can sell 10 + 10 items in marketplace.  Got a 4096m^2 1/16 sim store?  Your webstore can have 10 + 81 items in it. Have several stores but want one website?  Distribute the load across several boxes, one on each spot.  (Make sure the website doesn't allow more than one box per sim, too -- no cheating!)

    Simple and effective, with nothing but change to the marketplace code and requirement to use the NEW magicboxes (which report land size back to the web server for count limits) to make it work.  You can even just give people a script to drop in their existing magicboxes which updates the current scripts without the seller having to do a lot of work building new boxes.


  16. If you care to look at Gridsurvey, our concurrency is now dipping down below 50,000 and is touching 48,000.  People are leaving or not hanging around as much.  And in both cases, the argument for keeping 300$ a month islands gets mighty weak.

    You sold us ownership of virtual land.  We have receipts and years of ads to prove it.  That's what we want, just what you promised and sold to us.  Give us the ownership we paid for, and leave us the **** alone to enjoy our property however the **** we want to enjoy it (barring RL laws).  If you don't want to make land possession "Ownership" but instead a lease, then you are going to have to cut the price by half to get land moving once more.  Would you pay the same amount to lease a car that the next guy over is paying to own that car?  No, you wouldn't.  So why are you expecting us, your customers, to do that?

    If we own the land, the price can be argued as the investment cost to gain ownership.  Without ownership, there IS no argument to be made in defense of the high price.  Either you half both purchase and tier prices, or you give us back our legal ownership as sold to us way back when.  Nothing else will do.  Fail to do either, and the world will continue to shrink and the userbase will continue to shrink with it.  And at some threshold, SL will appear to be so abandoned that those left will give up their sims and walk away to do something else.  When you sink to that depth, not even free houses and free land will keep people inworld any longer.

    I'm pleased to see the new CEO understands that we are in SL because here we can be anything we want to be.  But I'm not pleased that everyone is repainting the deck of the ship back to its festive colors, all while ignoring the gaping hole in the hull.  The ship is sinking and has been for 2 years (Thanks M!!)  If Second Life land is owned, give us ownership.  If not, price it accordingly as a game rental.  Or continue to ignore the fiscal reality that nobody with a lick of sense will pay what you demand for something they won't own and can lose at the merest whim of someone in LL; and keep watching the waterline rise higher and higher until the entire thing is lost forever.


  17. I'm afraid that without the General Discussions area, your new communication system doesn't permit me to communicate with my fellow netizens very well.  Instead the only real use I will have for it is once every 3 months popping my muzzle in to see what the next disruptive change coming down the pipe happens to be.

    Without the GD area, customers aren't really going to be keen on visiting the forums and perhaps answering a newbie's question in the Help areas for you.  Why should we bother to come -- no chit chat allowed.  While this move to eliminate general talk and banter permits LL's messages to better stand out, you can't really call it an improvement in communications.  You CAN call it an improvement in Broadcasting if you like...

    Once again, LL shows that it doesn't grasp even the simplest concept about why their customers are on SL in the first place.  We aren't here to make your lives easier or to make LL richer.  We are here to enjoy ourselves, and we pay money for the privilege.   And action after action by LL shows that they don't care if we are enjoying ourselves or not. 

    This is as fatal a condition as a restaurant owner not caring if the food tastes good or not.


  18. There are many ways for dataminers to add 2+2 and figure out what you are doing on your free time.  And HR departments are routinely looking at websites like Facebook or hiring dataminers to go digging through people's activities, either for hiring or for firing information.  Any teacher who is in SL and has picks for "Debbie's Bondage House" and "Lenny's whip and chain emporium" is certain to called up to the admin building and brought up on Moral Turpitude charges, leading to their dismissal.  A cop playing as a thug in SL and having picks for "Mary Jane 4ever" is in grave jeopardy when his HR gets hold of that data.  And any serviceman/woman in SL and part of some "Liberation Army" is going to get a less than careful reaming by the IG -- I know this for a fact because the NAVY IG once had a cow over the Society for Creative Anachronism, not understanding the difference between Anachronism and Anarchy.  And you don't wanna know what people with security clearances put up with already even without investigators finding out you are "into" crossdressing in SL.

    And while yes, any investigator can enter SL and look at picks, they won't know which account to look at... unless other datamining groups like Facebook reveal to all the world that Barbara Cullens is also Dripping Galactickitty.  At that point this SL experience has the potential to exact a very high price on poor Barbara's Real world.


  19. As we have 3 continents already, the PG areas would have to move to the PG continent and the M areas on that one would have to move to the M continent.

    Yes, it's a royal mess.  That's why so many of us wanted to get it done and over with at the same time as LL was already doing it for the Zindra disaster.  We could have pretended it was like WoW's Cataclysm and made something good and long lasting out of a one-time hassle.  But no, LL knows best.  So now to make things safe and functional we have to go through that entire mess yet again (because those who knew best didn't have the foresight of a mole).


  20. something more?

    My suspicion is that Group messaging and Private Messaging are going to be moved to the web.  Making a web-based group chat is child's play -- hundreds of them are out in the field today.  Rather than continue to beat on making one work inworld (and listen to everyone complain about all the open windows blocking the view) they will sometime in the spring move the Messaging system over to a browser based system.

    The pluses for this is that small screens and laptops get the multiple window solution I've long been calling for.  And having a friends list and profiles on the webpage makes it easy to implement and use.  The negatives are:  How do you handle having multiple chat windows open at once, and how do you IM someone you search for inworld?  Not to mention how do I know I have an IM waiting -- will the tab light up or something?

    I sense a big change in communications is on the horizon.  If they use tabs and make the tabs change color when there's something to read, it'll be much like 1.23's Communicate window.  But doing something like this AND maintaining compatibility with non2.6 current viewers?  That will be a feat indeed.


  21. Thank you Argus for telling us where the web changable profile setting is.

    And thank you Q for giving us the ability to better control what data of ours goes out to the great unerasable memory system in the clouds.  I appreciate being able to block non-SL folks from peering in.

    Now if you can add checkboxes and an option to integrate with Facebook and Twitter or not, I'll be overcome with joy.  Seriously, I might even bake you guys cookies...


  22. Assuming you are correct and they are changing business models, the following question has to be asked.

    LL was certain of X$ keeping things the way they were a couple of years ago.  If the business model is going to change, what guarantee of >X$ does the lab have?  If you have a bird in the hand, you don't drop it and grab for the two in the bush.  Much like LL was so certain that businesses would flock to SL if they hid all us paying creeps, and that families would flock to SL if they hid all us paying creeps, what makes LL so sure they've found a way to make more money instead of driving out well-heeled and paying customers?  They certainly haven't had a good batting average thus far -- we've sunk from 80,000+ concurrency to the low 50s, on a good day.  And that's with refugees from There and Blue Mars added into the mix, too.

    Again LL, you don't have to get rid of current customers to have more customers in a different field.  SL is not a cable channel -- it is a cable SYSTEM.  If you had a seperate PG, M, and A continent (like we asked for) then you could offer SL to anybody under the sun for any reason under the sun.  I still don't see what's so difficult about doing this and making every customer and potential customer happy.

    Burger King has made trillions of dollars with the slogan "Have it your way".  Something to think about, yes?

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