[Viewer 2.5 with Web Profiles Has Arrived]

I don't see the point of the web profile. It seems completely useless

[Linden Lab's New CEO]

Welcome, I hope your first  order of business is to reverse bad policies. From the teens coming in to  the world. To  AR abuses. To the ridiculous parts of the TOS. SL needs to go back to what worked. How did they gain this mass popularity to begin with, If it worked once it will work again  As far as listening to the residents argument some make. That is how Linden Lab got into this mess. They are trying to  please everyone and you just can't please everyone Hopefully    you will bring back the fun and the frivolity back to SL. Of course it depends on how    much your hands are tied, I hope this is a real CEO and not a puppet CEO.

[Join the Second Life Advertising Beta!]

I wonder if they will be adult products on public Linden land which they seem intent to bring minors into? Just thinking out loud here.,

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

I have read that all again, provided my 2 cents somewhere above and made now a summary from my view which I like to share with you Linden Lab:

Linden Lab should concentrate all efforts only on technology, reasonable prices, advertising the platform and excellent customer service.

This is all what we need.

Here are the reasons:

I have no doubt that the youth is the future, because this is logical, but the age of 18+ is young enough to be the future of Second Life. It worked in the boom times and it will work in the future if you advertise the platform in a professional way.

The younger youth may wait until being 18+, same like Linden Lab can wait on them.

Every single day hundreds of thousands of kids turning 18+ on this planet.

This is early enough to catch them daily (sic!) via good advertising.

And it is not rocket science to do so. Really..

I suggest to keep things as simple as possible and going back to the simple basics like we had them from start on.

This is the only elegant solution, because it is simple, easy, fast and fun like a prim.

18+ as entry level and 2 simple ratings. General and Mature (or call Mature = Adult because we are adults in all common international meanings of the vocable)

Linden Lab should immediately stop to do:

- demographic policy:

- social policy

- cultural and educational policy

because trying all that fails on every level and seen from every perspective.

This is what I strongly believe and I have the strong impression that this is also what the majority of the customers strongly believe, when I read the nearly 100% negative reactions on the new 16+ policy - in this blog and in all forums we have.

We were told from 2003 on, that we literally *own* this world and that we *make* this world Second Life and we were told that Linden Lab would have no plans to mix kids and adults, because Second Life was clear announced as an adult environment.

It just makes a good reputation and it helps to impove the human condition (hint, hint - this is your goal, right?! You said so in every "TAO", or was this a lie?) if you LL give to customers what you have *promised* and not take away from us what you have promised:

Our World. Our Imagination.

Without restrictions (except criminal activities and griefing).

And your only job as a provider is - and for that we pay - to provide the technology and an excellent customer service, incl. the best you can add to help us to cover our IP rights, because we make the content and the atmosphere in Second Life and not you.

This was the deal and this should be further the deal, because it is a successful deal as we all know, incl. you LL..

We are your partners, you know? We co-exist in this way on a creative and on a business level.

This works only if the highest possible level of freedom and spontaneity on the grid is given to us!.

Too much zoning, too much rules, too much quarantine of activities will kill the former spirit and thrill of Second Life.

You should not destroy this creative and even monetary successful project for no reason, because it will not kill your, nor our business, if Second Life starts for people from age 18+ and upwards.

This is all what we adult customers need. Really. We *never* asked and yelled for more, nor less.

      Brilliantly said! Linden Lab needs to get out of the moral police business, I've preached this time and time again. They need to focus on all the areas you said  The only time Linden Labs should involve itself    in the players business is when griefing is going on. You mix real life kids into the grid and they'll have to play even more of the moral police.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

 

Adults built most of the internet too and yet teens are welcome there (with relevant controls in place to limit their access to adult material, as is now the case for SL).

The sooner 'adults' stop seeing SL as somehow different from the rest of the internet, the sooner we can move forward constructively and be done with all the 'angst'.

       No, I'm sorry but that isn't the case with SL. They are letting teens IM whomever they please and letting whomever IM teens as they please. That is not a controlled environment

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

I have to agree with Shock wave, again.   If we can't convince LL of the dangers of this move, perhaps the Nanny groups can...

I have one solution to add.  It is obvious to me, that we cant lable teen's profiles with a "T"(for instance).  Due to naughty people wanting to stalk them.

But, Adding a "A" flag to adults profiles will provide the same protection for us Adults.  This "A" profile flag will only work for verified adult accounts. It will give us all a way to be certain we are interacting with other adults, or adjust our behavior if no "A" is visible.

Please give us this obvious way to insure we know who we are interacting with, for everyones safey.

Alisha

       Unfortunately the no A could also signify to a stalker that they have found a kid. SL needs to put some stringent measure in to prevent the children from talking to adults that don't want to talk to children and from the stalkers trolling for children. This will take time and resources   away from improving SL.  They are  short of staff anyway after the layoffs.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

Whilst I would love to be the one that says: "Yay, let the kids come and enjoy Second Life too." I'm afraid, I can't. I am disappointed that you have chosen to close the children's grid without putting enough effort into making the teen grid a safe environment for the children to experience that does not involve them coming into contact with adults. You could have secured government funding for the teen-grid with children all over the world signing up as well as finding a way for skills development and government education departments to invest. After all - it's money you want - isn't it?

I am thinking of the parents that allow their children as young as 3 years old to play on Second Life and this is not an isolated incident. I visited a friend recently and saw her three year old playing on a sandbox - this child had better flying skills than even I do. And what about the families with children regularly already accessing SL main grid. I have heard about primary school children rushing home from school eager to get onto Second Life to attend scripting classes. This is not like 'making certain drugs' legal in the hope that certain minds will no longer find it interesting again. I have more to say on this too but of course - if I said this in a private letter to you - you would probably only ignore my worthwhile recommendations so this is the best place for me to air my well refined argument.

Did you consider there are 8 and 9 years olds accessing the Anime sims where some of these sims are full of Adult material? With these ill-thought changes; kids will flock to these grids - not for the innapropriate material but they will certainly come across it - and once exposed - that is it for the innocence of the child. Once exposed to that kind of material a child's mind may not be the same again. I find it hard to believe you will have decent measures in place for the protection of vulnerable people. You can't combat two-bit hackers let alone hardened criminals with only one addictive thing on their innapropriate mind.

I am ashamed with such a poor decision by Linden Lab. I don't want to be the one to be negative here but this may prove the worst decision Linden Lab has ever made. You have no control over copybotters and griefers - God help us with paedophiles and perverts now flocking in their droves to a place where they imagine they can access innocent and vulnerable children to groom. I guess you know what you are doing  - after all - filling this place with kids brings dosh from the parents paying for them to play but is it really a worthwhile risk when you know what else such a decision will bring.

      Also don't you find it a little odd that real life adults playing virtual children were curtailed but they are almost handing real life minors the keys to the kingdom? When virtual children get more protections than real life children it's time to realize something screwy is going on

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

You must be joking right? Are you sure you have thought of why what you just said sounds...well I dont want this post ARed.

So you are telling me that unless they demonstrate they are taking reasonable procautions, you will go on a cruisade against them? Are you also telling me that when underage people go on the internet, SL is the ONLY place they can access adult material from? Are you also telling me that you know whats best for everyone and are willing to impose your opinion on everyone else? Are you also telling me that somehow you will order these filtering companies to comply with what you think, with a program that is NOT even an internet web browser and you do in fact have to download in order to use?(which incidently is about to change somewhat) Are you also telling me that you are a nazi or something of some sort? because imposing your will on other people is is very much like that.

First, you do realize that teens can currently lie about their age and access SL right? and that the current precautions that are going to be taken do not change the fact that teens cannot actually do any adult stuff without lieing about their age? I will simply take your point about under 18 being underage in regards to US law and not wanting lawsuits. I am sure you have heard by now that in many places 16 is considered old enough; in my state, the age of consent is actually 16; so the question is, how do you treat this so called age of consent?

Second, do you not also realize that many teens do not even use SL to get adult stuff and indeed just go around the internet looking for it; filtering is far from effective here, as it is a fact that many younger people know alot more about computers then older ones do. In fact, it is good enough that many adult websites simply put a disclaimer saying you are over 18 which you have to click in order to access them, yet somehow, they havent been sued yet. LL is actually going further then this by blocking people.

Third, as the main SL website does not contain any adult content and any part that does is actually labeled as such and is really the market place, not the main site, it is very doubtful that filtering companies would consider it an adult website. How are these companies going to filter something like SL which is an outside program? At most, they could possibly filter the web version of SL, but then you can just use a viewer to get around it.(yes, I do realize that there are many ways to block access to different things, but typically filters work through web browsers by blocking actual websites or IP addresses, although blocking IP address is far from effective usually)

Fourth, you make yourself sound...I will just say I disagree so I dont get ARed. SL is already widely known as a place with perverted stuff in it despite what else there may be. It doesnt matter what "offical" label SL may have, as it is mostly adults that make use of it and therefore, to most of them, it would not make the slightest bit of difference. Obviously, by business, you mean more then just the lone user.(at least I hope) Many of the actual big businesses have already pulled out of SL and there are not many left. Aside from them, there is only educational institutions which use it for research(besides a couple government agencies). Whether an adult rating would hinder any participation here is something that can not be predicted and it will likely depend on price raises rather then any label.

Well I enjoyed showing you how absurd your point sounds to me and wrote alot more then I really wanted to. They are taking precautions and obviously this doesnt seem to be enough for you. There is no way to garuntee anything about anyone and trying to do so is futile. It is still up to people to make their own judgements and it is still up to the parents to monitor what their child does. It will be interesting to see if something does happen however as I would like to know what happens with laws between different countires here or if someone could site child neglect and possible accesory to what happened on the parents for not monitoring what their children are doing at home. Ok, I think I will stop writing now as I have wasted too much time here.

      Actually it is your reasoning  that is absurd .Yes teens can get adult material on the net without going to SL. That doesn't affectt SL. This isn't about protecting the children  at least for me. They are parents or guardians that is their job not mine! If teens access adult material on the web  it doesn't affect me. But teens  being allowed on the SL  grid could affect me and I don't like it. They don't have a right to do that.

       As it stands now teens have to totally lie a bout their age which LL can't be held liable for.  You let the little teenagers in and SL is responsible. Yes they shouldn't see anything naughty but  they are allowed to IM  freely which could open up a whole bees nest. SL is liable for that because they didn't take the precautions far enough. This is a train wreck waiting to happen!

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

Okay, I want a teen blocker available to adults who do not wish to interact with teens

A script or device to prevent any contact and to flag  a warning if someone is using a under age account. I dont want my SL experience compromised by having to change my appearance or behaviour due to the presence of minors.

That being said...... if anything happens in SL that creates a problem in RL for teens or adults with teens I think this will be LL's responsibility. This was a terribly bad idea and yes I am a premium member so maybe someone might consider if we are PAYING for this experience we dont want to have to compromise it for the benefit of teens who will not respect our privacy rights, who wont understand adult issues and feelings and who will undoubtably look for ways to get into areas that they are not supposed to be in. Can anyone see the nightmare this will create ? Geez...... folks BAD IDEA!

       Exacly, Some of us do not wish to interact with teenagers on any level online It's bad enough we are pretty more forced to consider teens in the real world.  No way around that but we don't have to let them into our virtual world. As you said this world is for fantasy and we should be able to live out fantasies freely. Of course SL has already done a good job of curtailing that before. I'm sure a few of the kids will behave themselves and obey the rules but all it takes is a few more that won't and the whole experience is ruined for  we adults.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

     It has nothing to do with raunchy, sexual behavior. general/PG means just that. From my understanding, there are to be no mature behaviors. These include profanity, risque jokes or anything of that sort. Basically, when I am on a general sim, my guideline is.."Could I say/do that in church or in front of my highly religious and prusish grandmother?"

     I dress appropriately and carry myself in that fashion. As for IM's, I have never made it a practice to entertain long conversations with those I can't see. Even among my friends, we'll go to their house, my house or a beach or club for any real conversation.

     Maybe that's where my problem is. I very much treat SL as much like RL as is prudent and warranted. In RL, I don't make it a habit of finding names in a phone book, doing a Google search to learn about them and then call them on the phone and say :HI, let's be friends!!". I also really don't care to meet such people.

     Brynn

       If you chose to play that way that is perfectly fine, Not everyone does though The adults  that like adult activities have the right to expect an adult environment without teens intermingling. Those that came to SL in the early days were told we were  entering an adult environment we were apparently deceived. That is another issue. Linden Lab made certain promises in the beginning and now breaking said promises. It's about integrity.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

      While I do aggree with you in essence, the still remains that I do NOT engage in mature/adult behaviors on general rated sims. I never have nor do I plan to start. Personally, I feel that anyone who does is showing great disrespect to the sim owner and is in fact in breach of TOS/Community Standards.

       I'll concede that point, No one should be doing naughty stuff in G  sims. Fine but if someone IM's you you have no idea of knowing where they are on the grid,. You have no way of knowing if someone is camming in on you on the grid. This would work better if SL made parents send in a permission slip for 16 year olds to be in SL and had them make up a list of people they are allowed to talk too and restrict IM's for teens  to the prescribed list. This would make parents being involved and aware of where their kids are and whom they are speaking with.

       Even if someone isn't doing something outright raunchy on a G rated sim there is still the possibility of a risque joke being told etc. Adults have to watch every word that comes out of their mouths now in G rated areas. That is no fun nor is it relaxed

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

    Hi again all. I guess what's confusing me here is all the uproar over someone "accidentally" hooking up with a teen once they are allowed on the main grid. I'm sure that som eone will enlighten me if my thinking on this is considered wrong in som,e way.

    When I go to/end up in a PG/General sim, I know that not only the rating, but the TOS and community Standards Require me to dress and behave in a certain way. Adult activity is not allowed on such sims in any fashion, that is their very purpose for existence. They are for residents who for whatever reason, wish to enjoy SL in a setting free from adult and mature behaviors. For me to disrespect that not only flies in the face of the rules but shows no regard for the sim owner and residents who are there to enjoy the sim as it was intended.

    Perhaps I'm an odd person..maybe I'm even a prude, but the idea of trying to hook-up on a general sim has never occurred to me in my two years of being here. Even if by some chance, I were approached by someone, I certainly wouldn't act out anything with them on that sim for the above mentined reasons, not to mention the complete lack of facilities for said encounter. I have a lovely home which is on mature land to use or would gladly visit them at their home on mature/adult land.

    Noiw, someone explain to me exactly what risks I face from this merger in it's current form?

     Brynn

      The risks come from teens  being allowed to IM whomever they please. if someone IM's you  you have no way of knowing if they are on adult land or not. you shouldn't have to ask everyone's age you come in contact with. Even if you did teens can lie which minimizes the legal dangers but Linden Lab doesn't have the     resources to defend frivolous lawsuits. If they did t hey wouldn't of had to lay off so many people.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

 

You do realise that it's not illegal for 16 and 17 year olds to speak to adults right?!

Some of the stuff I see here under the pretence of 'protecting the teens' really saddens me!

I think it's great that LL are treating this with a sensible balance between protection and giving the teens a bit of freedom.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - people should stop trying to lock the teens up under the false idea that it's 'for their own protection' and should be concentrating more on thinking about how to deal with the few problem adults who may attempt to get involved in dangerous chat with teens (and, to be honest, I suspect any adult who tries that will get AR'd and banned soon enough anyway).

And to those who are worried about unwittingly getting into adult chat with a teen because you can't see that they are a teen from their profile I say this:

1. You could only have seen them on PG land to strike up a conversation with them. If you are wandering around PG land and getting into 'adult' chat I'd respectfully suggest you probably ought to reconsider!

2. You could have completely IM'd them out of the blue after profile surfing or something. If you did that I would also respectfully suggest you might want to reconsider profile surfing and getting straight into adult chat.

If you want to have 'adult' chat, keep it to mature and adult rated land or do so via people you know from 'adult' groups. And if you are really concerned about someone's age - politely ask them. If the answer doesn't satisfy your concerns or you are unsure, move on. There's plenty more people in SL!

      Of course I'm aware 16 and 17 year olds are allowed  to chat with  adults. As for points two and three. It's not up to the adults to be paranoid. People come to SL for their own branch of fun and enjoyment If you have to be paranoid about everything you say to a person you don't know it's not really fun anymore. H ow are you supposed to meet new people that way?

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

Philip has been heard, more than once, saying that he wants his kids to be able to use the grid.

Like most of the truly stupid ideas the Lab has forced on us, it's usually something simple...

      That is fine, but we should of been told from day one kids are coming here a lot of us would of never set down roots here if we knew  kids would be here, I have no idea why they just didn't merge  the two  grids to begin with if that's what they wanted to do,  Linden Lab needs to pick a plan and go with it instead of changing things in  the middle of the stream

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

   Pedophelia is so rampant I am frequently shocked when I see the news. Priests, school officials and also politicians are so frequently pedos, and they are the pillars of society,.What is to stop them and those with less to hide here when the access is easy and trust is so easy to come by. Trolling has a whole new meaning now.

 

   I would not allow my daughters to access SL at all until they were 18 and only then with alot of care and watching over their shoulders, all because of how I see women treated in sl by random strangers.

Do any of you want your teens to hear "make sex on me?" as I have so many times heard in "G" sims.?

 

I understand cost cutting as much as anyone but this is not the answer.

      They could cut costs and make things so much easier by  shutting down the teen grid and just  having done with it.  It sounds as if they will have to implement a lot so the younger teens only have access to  educational stuff. In the long run I bet it will cost more money,I'll say it again I really wish SL would think an  idea TOTALLY through before going ahead.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

Best way to solve all this chaos, just don't let teens go into the mainland, real simple. My response is very vague but, to me it would solve all the disputes. Thing is, these kids will find ways around this, trust me. Just watch what happens. Seriously, just watch.

       Yes teens will always find a way around the system but as of right now they have to lie to do it so it's not a liability for Linden Lab but when Linden Lab gives the blessing for 16 year old kids to IM  whomever they wish it's just insanity.  If they could implement some true controls it might be just fine but this seems to be a half done idea. Seriously the suits who had  t he original idea and were responsible for implementing this should be fired on the spot. The simplest thing to do would be to ship  the teens off to other 3D worlds that are equipped for kids that don't have adult content.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

Unless Linden Labs has some sort of a plan to heavily moderate local and private chat, this could spell out some small disasters in the near future. I suppose the post we can do is put up I AM TEEN or ADULT signs in autoresponses?

       I don't see any other way around this mess.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

There are no safeguards. 16 and 17 year olds will be able to talk to whomever they please that is my understanding from  the plan. Irresponsible? Absolutely. Will the residents have any actual say in the matter? I don't think so not real say anyway.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

For once, I'd really like to see Linden Labs implement an entire idea I mean just one whole idea! It would be a nice change for the half baked plans they always seem to implement.  The cam problem has not been addressed and you're just going to let 16 year old kids talk to whomever they please  and whomever talk to a 16 year old kid? Really? I mean really  you're going to do this?

I think putting special markers  on the profiles would make it easier for creeps to find the kids. Whomever had the idea and implementing it so badly should be fired immediately. I don't care how high up in the company they are. This has  been implemented in an irresponsible way! I'm still in favor of shuffling the kiddies off to  other  worlds that don't have adult content. Leave SL alone! It was fine in its original form the more  Linden Lab tries to polish it the worse things get!

[Second Life Economy Stable in Q2 2010]

If things were going great, Linden Labs would not have fired M Linden and let 1/3 of the other Lindens go.

I've got too much time, money, love and energy invested in SecondLife; I'll be here 'til they shut it down.  I think we should cheer for them to succeed because we're in this together.

       What you're cheering for in a sinking ship, Why not  try to persuade management to go back to the first days of actual fun. That's the only way things will truly stabilize is if they stop trying to look good in the press and bring back the fun and the frivolity of Second Life. They need to revert it back to the diamond it was before they tried to polish it too much now all they have is broken glass.