Mickey Vandeverre
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Posts posted by Mickey Vandeverre
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ok, your comments...
"Never did I imply that every1 can afford a computer suited for SL, and I actually was sympathetic to people without the money to spend on a new PC. I personally need a higher end PC for what I work on now, which is not SL, and just can't afford to spend the money, and this is my business. So, I do have some sympathy.
The rest of what you said only supports my assertion that a user with a higher end PC is more likely to have the money to spend in a virtual world. I did not assume any1 got a PC just for SL. What I was implying was that some1 that is going to spend alot of money inside SL, is likely to also spend money on a machine that is suited to SL. The computer is a reflection of how important SL is to them. I'm not saying that those with low-end PC's don't care about SL, I'm just saying that it can generally be assumed that those with higher end PC's value this platform a bit more that those with lower end PC's, generally speaking. I gave no stats, it's all based on just generalized logical conclusions."
I'm not sure that sympathy is in order. Empathy maybe. On several different layers, both merchants and customers and people that just play around or all. We are all tied together.
I do not believe that a user with a higher end PC is more likely to have money to spend, in fact, I believe the opposite. I don't believe that the cost of a computer has a correlation with the user's value of or commitment to SL.
I do not think that your conclusions are logical.
@couldbe - thanks
(probably a short term technical glitch) -
Medhue Simoni wrote:Mickey Vandeverre wrote:"A creator that makes items only for low-end computers, is guaranteed to sell less and make less money. Why? This should be obvious, but a person with a low end computer is going to have much less cash to spend than some1 with a high-end computer. Now, of course, there are exceptions for every rule, but on average, this will be true."Not sure where to start on that.you might pick up a copy of an older book "The Millionaire Mind" and review on how people with money spend cash.when I arrived here, everyone I met was on a laptop. I generally made friends with business people because I was selling luxury homes. 200 bucks to 400 bucks. (that was 2007)They were on laptops because they were busy people and mobile all day and into the night and while traveling.I'm sure some were on laptops that you would call "low-end"...because they were "playing."They've all moved on, and doubt that they could function at all now, mobile. SL has become very difficult for a laptop user. Shame, that. Large population. and large population that you sort of insulted.where did you pull those stats from?
Who is talking about millionaires? Those are a whole different animal.As for everything else, see my comments above.a whole different animal than who? or whom? people who use a scrap laptop to play around a bit? separate from their business set up?
perhaps not.
I will go above and read your comments.
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sure are a lot logged into the forum right now. spooky. a roustabout maybe.
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EvaFord wrote:There is a DJ in SL who uses an Alt as his Hostess/Partner. He claims "She" is voice verified implying that this ALT is female. He even made a fake first life profile with a fake photo of this ALT Partner. I find this unethical. Guests are being asked to Tip the DJ's Alt. I see it as a Scam.Since this is a Public figure in SL. Someone asking you for L$, do you feel that it should ok to post information about this in your profile? I feel that people who ask to be compensated in SL, need to be required to be honest as to where that money is going. Should Public Figures be exempt from some TOS disclosures.______________________________________________________________________________________________Added ADDED at last of discussion:If you had started this thread by saying, "There's a person that I know from long personal experience is a scam artist and I want to keep others from being hurt, what can I do?" you probably would have been given some good advice. Several people have noted that your motives were NOT clear. Go back and read your initial post and see if it sounds like what you're saying now. Most people think it doesnt.Thank you.. This was definately an issue in the discussion.
"Added ADDED at last of discussion:
If you had started this thread by saying, "There's a person that I know from long personal experience is a scam artist and I want to keep others from being hurt, what can I do?"
well now, that changes everything.
then my initial response would be....
following someone into SL from Real Life is pretty creepy. Probably not a good idea.
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I was being sarcastic too
it appears that she has altered the original post once again, to include perhaps another agenda.
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Malanya wrote:What were we misguided into by the topic and the first few posts (that changed their tone after replies) by this person? Was this misleading to get people to participate in some study and is THAT ethical? I find this whole thread she/he started to possibly (using the word loosely here) mislead people into this non-discussion. Wonder if there is any guidelines about this? I think ethics and morals apply to the OP and in no way a DJ using an alt. Just saying. LOL and replies change from post to post first we don't care about other people and then we are intelligent. Should I laugh now or look into ethics on misleading people in the sl forum to be quoted and edited in some blog? Hmm...
perhaps, Malanya. if I were to write a paper, might include that.
yes, people take quotes and names from forum discussions and blog about them outside of SL.
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EvaFord wrote:Is it?Was that information ever there, or are you just posting personal information about me that you just happened to find ? How do I know? How does anyone know? The edit button is a legal option, right. So there is nothing wrong with using it.Also , your whole arguement here has been about the right to privacy of personal information.Maybe you convinced me.
"legal options" ???
you are getting your worlds mixed up.
if you wanted to take action about a perceived problem, then you would file an Abuse Report, also known as an AR. someone here can tell you how to do that, it's been a while since I used it.
But that process of course, would not provide substance for your "paper."
You are very confused about what my discussion and any other discussion was about.
Be careful there, sister, on your hypothesis.
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EvaFord wrote:It is a very interesting topic, isn't it.You never know, in a Virtural World, with whom you are interacting.Seriously though, I must go. I think everyone agrees that it is time to close the thread.Thanks for offering your comments.
Why stop now? finally getting a track on the scent of the scam.
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EvaFord wrote:It is good that this discussion never turned ugly. That is a credit to the openess of our community here. It was hard to stay on task and get a good discussion because it is a very emotional and controversal subject. But I think we did for the most part..People who post here are very intelligent and will weigh both sides of the issue, and wiith time will find a solution that works for the good of our community. I still believe people are inherently good. Though I have been burned bady here in SL, I did try to keep this about Ethics and not my personal problem.After 21 pages of thread, the general consensus has been overwhelming in the view that:-a) There isn't a problemb) The perceived problem is experienced by youc) Yours to manageI hope this link works for you. I am very interested in the Issue of Trust and Ethics in Virtual Worlds and The Impact On Real Life Mental HealthGood Play is looking at different age gorups and Ehtics in Gaming. in-depth interviews with 15-25 year-olds. Howard Gardner is a well known name in Education.Interesting Read:I am just one small voice. But I am not alone. Others are concerned too.It is time to close this thread and move on to my real life work.Thanks to all who took time to offer ideas.Eva
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oh.
you're working on a paper.
how interesting.
ETA:
"I am working on a paper....."
is now missing from your post. and was missing from your original post.
let's talk trust and ethics now.
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Teagan Tobias wrote:Another thought crossed my mind, what if by tipping the DJ and the Host, both the same person, that RL person was able to put food on the dinner table that night for there family. Hard times are real.Just a thought.
Exactly.
When she gets back ask her to find out what kind of a computer he is using. need to copy down the specs.
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EvaFord wrote:The Discussion has evolved as all good discussions do.Don't you think it is much more interesting to discuss the ethical and unethical use of ALTS for fun and for business purposes as opposed to focusing on a personal issue. ?Do you agree that ALTS can be used to scam and cause hurt in SL? I agree that there are valid uses for them. So let's come up with a creative way to solve the negative aspects and make SL a safer place.But I I think in order to to that we have to start small.........
I retract any empathy for your situation.
Not your prop and entertainment for the day.
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EvaFord wrote:Mickey Vandeverre wrote:Good grief, I'm about to lose patience, too.Eva - here is a suggestion:make yourself an alt, and try out some roleplaying adventures. Immerse a bit in another community that does it strictly roleplay.Learn more about what other people use SL for. Have an adventure.
Role play is FUN ! And wonderful escape in SL.:) Great example of creative use of ALTS in SL.I had to erase my response. I don't feel like getting another vacation at the moment.
I think there is more to this story. There usually is.
Considering the most recent enlightenment as to how you got their real life info....
...yes, an real ethics discussion is in order.
not one that is subterfuge.
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Good grief, I'm about to lose patience, too.
Eva - here is a suggestion:
make yourself an alt, and try out some roleplaying adventures. Immerse a bit in another community that does it strictly roleplay.
Learn more about what other people use SL for. Have an adventure.
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"IF LL decided to add that to the TOS that ALL avi's must disclose they have alts and to name them, then I and I think many others would leave SL before disclosing such information."
There would only be 50 people left after that!
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EvaFord wrote:Amethyst Jetaime wrote:You play SL with an avatar that is an extension of your RL self and I assume you fill out your profile accordingly and are expecting everyone else to do the same if they are in business because anything else is a lie and a lie is a scam, and any small scam means they will steal from you in a large way That is a gross generalization and is just shaky grounds for imposing your choice on other's. It is not superior ethics.You said that not tipping is not an option for you, but you only want to tip certain avatars and so those avatars should disclose everything you need to see if they conform to your criteria. People give you the information you need to decide if they fit the criteria - or they don't, you tip or not based on if they prove they fit your criteria. If they choose to not give you the information you want then all you can do is not tip.. There is no other choice.BTW saying 'I guess" didn't negate the fact that you wanted other readers to consider that those that disagree with you are DJ's doing the same thing and implying that their opinions should be discounted.
You made the assumption that I wanted others to discount differing opinions. That is not the case. A discussion needs BOTH sides of the argument to have any merit at all. It is NOT about being right or wrong.And yes Not tipping is not something I would ever do if I stay and enjoy a club and the build. I will tip a DJ requardless. The only information I am asking for is tell me if you are asking me to tip an ALT.Why is that so difficult? I do not care if you are man or woman or what your other alts are or if you work under different DJ names..... just tell me if I am tipping an ALT. and also tipping you as the DJ. That is not personal information that will harm you. Right? If you are afraid people will not tip your ALT if they knew it was your ALT then maybe you should ask yourself why that is the case. Maybe that isn't a concern. But when money is involved, I think it is a fair request. AM I tipping your ALT ? Then with the information I can decide how much I want to tip, if at all. Sounds reasonable to me.My mother taught me this when teaching me Ehtics. If you lie about small things, you will lie about big things. And yes, I do not leave my personal ethics behind when I enter SL. just because I am anonymous. And no, I do not impose my ethics on you. Just like RL, the Community sets the standards. That is why we discuss things in a Civil manner.You've had a ton of opinions, and as far as I can see, most say that using an alt to perfom is not unethical or out of the ordinary.
I'm not too pleased with the fact that you are suggesting that using an alt is lying. WE ARE ALL ALTS.
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"I did not have to go after the info It was obtained over knowing the person for several years with RL contact,. becoming disillusioned with what I saw as his shady business practices and then discovering that he is still at it, scamming others."
well, this changes things up a bit. Finally, the heart of the matter.
curious, did you discover the person in SL based on your real life beef?
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EvaFord wrote:Mickey Vandeverre wrote:I don't think that my values are all that different. I have the same issue with marketplace reviews that are placed by alts.It is a deception that affects the customer. It also affects a hard working merchant that is not gaming the system, that probably has similar values as yours, and probably conducts business the way you approve of.But I think that the situation you are describing is very different.Because someone expresses that they don't think your situation is something to get bent about, does not mean that they have entirely different values than you.
Yes, and that is what I meant when I said Paradigm Shift. Theser posts have made a difference in my thinking.I have been very ill and shut in and SL gives me a place to chat and learn and discuss issues. I do know that some people use ALTS to cause great personal harm. My topic may be insignificant in comparison, I know.I was not aware of the damage ALTS can do to business owners. That definately needs to be addressed and made known. . And No, this is just an interesting topic to discuss here with the hope for change.It is not something to destroy my love for SL and the new friends I am making here. Thank you for for offering your concern. I do feel we have similiar values.I think that you offered up a great discussion.
I could tell some stories, and many others could, as well, about alts trying to damage business owners that would make your head spin. (but I don't want to give anyone any ideas
One certainly could not dream up some of the scenarios all on their own!But I think that some take those with a grain of salt, or work around them, because the luxury of being able to run a business without giving up your street address to a bunch of creeps, is rather pleasing.
You cannot have it both ways. Everyone is anonymous, or no one is anonymous. Anyone who puts real life info into their profile is asking for a heap of trouble.
In other venues, I have to give up info to participate in the marketplace. But so do the customers. There is a bit of a control and safety in that.
That is not what this venue was designed for, as far as I know. The marketing and videos and most interactions did not really imply that we were mimicking real life here. Years ago, very rarely did someone ask for real life info. That was a huge faux pas.
Somewhere along the line, it started changing. Same thing on the entire web. You used to be able to log into a "space" and fit in quite well as Miss12345 and participate in discussions, projects, goals.
I think that facebook messed that up quite a bit. It has now become ordinary to demand every detail of a person in order to participate in some venues. There is a lot of pressure there.
SL is kind of a last frontier, last bastion, last soft place to fall....
...if you are not willing to give up your entire life on the web.
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"Wait? I am lost here? My point is that you stated your rules clearly and I either agreed to follow them in order to receive L$. or I did not. So I am asking you to reveal that you are using an ALT in order to receive my tips. NOT asking you to reveal personal info about your life.
Personal info has nothing to do with it. Making an ALT giving it a RL and a fake photo and making it your partner and begging me to tip "her" is not acceptable to me.
That is terrible you got burned that way. No I definately feel that ALTS can serve a purpose in SL and no one has a right to your personal info in SL. EVER. And to out someone or destroy a business or do hurtful things to others is definately NOT acceptable to me."
ok, well I guess you've changed your mind during the course of the thread then, because in the beginning you said you were sitting on someone's Real Life info. The fact that you even went after that, in the first place, is questionable.
Ultimately, I did not get burned, learned a valuable lesson. There is a paranoid person lurking around each corner, revved up and ready to make some false claims.
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I don't think that my values are all that different. I have the same issue with marketplace reviews that are placed by alts.
It is a deception that affects the customer. It also affects a hard working merchant that is not gaming the system, that probably has similar values as yours, and probably conducts business the way you approve of.
But I think that the situation you are describing is very different.
Because someone expresses that they don't think your situation is something to get bent about, does not mean that they have entirely different values than you.
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What status are you disclosing? not real clear. is it...
a) your real life info
b) that you do not use an alt
c) that you are an alt
d) that you are xyz's alt
you are asking us to be sensitive to your needs, the way you are using SL, yet there is not much effort shown in which you would be willing to allow others the same space, the same sensitivity.
I quit using alts because someone came into the forum and threatened to destroy me. And then persisted with a vengeance for another 3 years.
Similar to what you did. But he had agreement and back-up in place. All depends upon how dramatic you make your original plea. His was quite good. Quite a wordsmith.
I hope you cut slack, and don't carry that with you for three years.
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EvaFord wrote:Dilbert Dilweg wrote:What if it was the other way around? Hosts owners and Dj's treating guests as soI am not sure you are an alt so you may not enter here untill you prove your identity?. Also for any freebies. You are not entitiled, because i have reason to beleive you are an alt.. Also you may not receive the 200 lindens I am giving out today because i feel you may be an alt and you deserve nothing if you are an alt.. even if you did perform well. you still deserve nothing lol
Very interesting new take on the discussion. I think my response is that the Host, Owner, DJ have stated their rules and I chose to disclose my status in order to receive the L$. Now as a guest, I request the same courtesy from you.was just reminiscing .....
here's something else to ponder...
back in the old days, I used to go to Dilbert's place to hang out, and some nights, maybe 2 different alts went. Maybe some nights, 3 of us went. (at different times, not at same time)....
I'm like you, and feel that a good hostess should be tipped properly.
So all three of us, probably tipped.
What do you think about that?
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My reasons for using SL are very similar to yours.
There used to be other adventures, but those got squelched.
I like what Dilbert just offered up.
When I set out gifts in the store, am aware that people send their alts in to pick it up too, and that is awesome.
Some have confided to me that they are shopping with an alt, and have even gone so far as to tell me the name of the alt. I think that is the coolest thing ever, but it is not required at all!
And it is not silly.
If it were to work both ways, as Dilbert suggested, it does change things up a bit....doesn't it?
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"One of the avas who had lost their tenancy, rezzed a random object afterwards at his new land, and all the missing furniture got rezzed at the same time. So it must have been some technical error that have cost this, instead of fraud."
I've had a few customers the last few weeks that were not able to find their furniture in the lost and found folder, after hitting the button that returns everything all at once.
I think there might be a glitch or something, and it might not show up until after a log off or maybe even next day.
Several were unaware that when it is returned like that, that it goes into the lost and found folder as a grouping of items that has one title, and that the objects will not show up individually with individual titles, but you will find them as a grouping of little yellow boxes.
When you set that grouping out, they should all appear at once, make sure you are in a spot that has enough prims. Then you can take them back one at a time, so that the individual titles and objects appear again in your inventory.
(probably a short term technical glitch)
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Do We Need Subsections For Mac and TPV Users In This Forum?
in General Discussion Forum
Posted
most definitely.
just about every day there is a new user on twitter asking for help on how to get started, or they are having a technical glitch. generally refer them to the technology section, but afraid that they are on a different system or a different viewer than what is being discussed, and for a new user, having to weed through all of that on first few attempts might be daunting, and might seem too much trouble.
If they were grouped together a bit more structured, specifically for each user, might save a few new ones from frustration, so they could go directly to what they need.