Phil Deakins

jwenting wrote: you would be wrong... Bots offend every sim owner who suffers because of them, and every visitor to those sims who has to deal with the increased lag caused by them. Specifically the ones used to cheat in contests by sending in dozens of alts just to vote for someone. You're projecting your own (IMO perverted or at the very least overly prudish) morality as applying to the entire population base, implying that anyone who isn't offended by some flesh as being a sex crazed pervert. It's quite possible, and extremely healthy, to leave other people alone. It's a large world out there, don't like what others do in a sim, go somewhere else. It's people who go around gawking and looking for technical violations and then screaming bloody hell and murder when they find them that are the perverts. No I'm not wrong. Traffic bots (which is what I said - not all bots) never have offended anyone. They have certainly annoyed many people but that's nothing to do with being "offended". If you disagree, check the dictionary. So people who prefer that sex acts are not done out in the open in public are perverted in your opinion. That speaks volumes about you. As you said, it's perfectly healthy to leave other people alone - griefers, traffic-bot runners, spammers, hackers who steal your money, etc. - perfectly healthy. It doesn't mean it's right though. LL created adult land, precisely so that sex acts were not done where they weren't expected. It doesn't matter whether or not you think that sex acts should be allowed anywhere and everywhere (again, it speaks about you), and people should mind their own business. What matters is what LL does and doesn't allow. You (and the rest of us) don't get a choice. You may be against users ARing ToS violations - it certainly sounds like you are - but, to keep SL as free as possible from such things as griefers, thieves, etc. users have to AR the violations because LL doesn't have the staff to watch everywhere. And on the whole, users are happy with that situation. My guess is that you are happy with it too. But you can't pick and choose what should be ARed, except for yourself. As long as you think that one or more violations should be ARed, you have no grounds for complaint, or objection, if other people choose to AR violations that you would prefer were left alone. And if you don't think any violations should be ARed, you still have no grounds for complaint or objection that other people AR ToS violations, because they are violations of the ToS which are detrimental to SL, and people's enjoyment of SL.

Alright, I'll use the word "advertise" instead of just search. Sex activities on publically accessible Mature land cannot be advertised, whether the activities are done in the open or behind walls. That's "search" sorted out to, I think, both our satisfactions The last time I read the FAQ/answers about it, they weren't exactly full of clarity, so I agree with you about that. But I think there's a good reason for it, that covers more than just this particular topic. It's normal for such things to say what you can't do rather than what you can do. It's much easier to do it that way than to try and cover every 'can do' possibility. One of the things you can't do on Mature land is have open sex where people could pass by, whether it's promoted or not. The place that the OP wrote about seems to have that and, if it does, it's against the ToS and should be ARed until it's not doing it.

jwenting wrote: what offends a lot more people is the attitude displayed by OP that it's up to him to decide what offends people and should be allowed... If he's so worried, why not contact the sim owners? No, he has to brag about finding the place in public and get it banned (and the owners too no doubt). I honestly don't think that a lot more people are offended by people ARing something, or asking about ARing something, than are offended by accidentally coming across open sex activity where it shouldn't be. I am sure that you are offended by someone asking about it, but you don't constitute a lot of people. I realise that there are some who are so into pixel sex that they want it to be allowed everywhere, without any consideration for other people, but I'm sure there aren't many such people. There appears to be a few in this thread, but that's not many. I didn't read the OP's post as having an "attitude". I read it as someone coming across, and asking about, something that s/he thought was against the ToS and, if it was, it was a serious controvention. It was so serious a thing that it caused LL to go to the great lengths of creating Adult land and all that that entailed in the switch-over. I think your "banned" statement about the OP was nothing to do with reality. Do you have the same attitude concerning traffic-bots? They are also not allowed. Do you think they should be left alone as well? Of the two, open sex is by far the worst because it's as offensive to some in SL as it is to many more people in RL, whereas traffic-bots don't "offend" anyone.

Nyll Bergbahn wrote: I'm only aware of one continent of Linden Homes and that is Nascera. There are three clearly visible on the map. They all look identical so you can't miss them.

Qwalyphi Korpov wrote: It seems they aren't listed in search and the group(s) are not open enrollment. So it's likely the could claim to comply with the TOS. Sex poseballs on mature land 'in the open' are allowed in at least some situations. That's why you can have a sex bed store in mature land. They could claim compliance with the ToS, but I don't believe it is. That's assuming that it's unrestricted access, of course. Sex animations are allowed in the open on Mature land, as you said, but using them for sex activities isn't. You gave sex bed stores as an example. I sell sex beds in my store that's on Mature land, so I took a lot of notice when Adult land came into being. At that time, it was made clear that potential customers can briefly try the sex animations to ascertain whether or not they want to buy, but nobody is permitted to use those sex animations for actual sex. Sex balls for public *sex* use are not allowed on Mature land, whether they are out in the open, as in the OP's case, or behind walls (in a room). It makes no difference whether the place is in search or not. If publically accessible sex animations, for use in sex activities, were allowed on Mature land, there would be no difference between Mature and Adult land, and no need at all for Adult land. From the OP's post, it sounds like the place he described has publically accessible sex balls for sex use and, if that's so, it's against the ToS for Mature land whether it's in search or not.

Ceka Cianci wrote: Phil Deakins wrote: I disagree with you, Ceka. If your sim was unavailable to the public, then I'd agree with you. But as long as anyone can go there, it has to follow the rules for Mature land, which means no public sex activities, etc.. It's nothing to do with attracting people via search. Search does have a role though. You can do adult activities (sex) behind closed doors on Mature land but, if you advertise those 'behind closed doors' activities in search, through the land's description or through items on the land that show in search, then it would be against the ToS for Mature land. it is unavalible to the public hehehe you can't get in my sim unless i let you in or give you permission to let people in.. adult has everything to do with search and promotion and hosting to the public.. so does moderate.. private doesn't.. thats why i said they should have a priv rating.. cause sex balls sitting on a sim beach that says moderate rated is not ARable..they would know it wasn't even more if the sim said private rated.. you can't cam in and see people using them if land settings are on either that make avatars invisible.. it would unclog some Ar's in the system i would think.. You didn't say that it's unavailable to the public. In that case, you can do exactly what you said you could do on your sim. Search does play a role, as I said, but it isn't all about search. You can do some things on Mature land as long as it isn't plugged in search. If it's plugged in search, it has to be Adult land. For instance, on publically accessible private island sims, and mainland, you can use sex animations for sex, provided that it's not in the open where it could be easily seen. But plugging those sex activities in search would be against the ToS for that land.

I disagree with you, Ceka. If your sim was unavailable to the public, then I'd agree with you. But as long as anyone can go there, it has to follow the rules for Mature land, which means no public sex activities, etc.. It's nothing to do with attracting people via search. Search does have a role though. You can do adult activities (sex) behind closed doors on Mature land but, if you advertise those 'behind closed doors' activities in search, through the land's description or through items on the land that show in search, then it would be against the ToS for Mature land.

JonathonAnthony wrote: Dillon - Yup, bored to tears. No L, didn't really find too many to chat with that had similar interests. My time to login was bad, mostly non-english users most places I found. This time around is... WAAAAAAY different. Have some disposable income to set up a life here... met someone... Found that I love DJing... I have 20 or so really great friends... Finally hit on the live music scene here... Just took hitting the right sim and being able to be on at a better time of day. So far I've yet to be bored at all. I'm also looking into building, texturing and scripting. Just because the first time around I didn't see the point of SL doesn't mean that there isn't one and that I will find it boring later on Phil - Perhaps they are looking to move the information from here. I agree, as long as this place exists, they need to ensure that they are feeding information to it. However, most companies are outsourcing their communications to social media because most have a small buy-in for maintenance (here, they need moderators and servers to maintain, on Twitter, they just need to have one guy to occassionally fire off a tweet), but still provide the interaction with their clientele. I know, for example, City of Heroes heavily leverages Facebook and UStream now, even though they have an extensive forum and internal communication system. And, honestly, I find myself seeing more of what they do BECAUSE of that. Do you know why I came to these forums in the first place? For scripting help. Not to socialize really, because I do that in SL. I didn't look for information because I can have that sent to me at my Twitter account if I so desire, or Google SL info when I need it. It's an older mentality that a game community requires a forum for it. I know, I am a part of that community to some degree. But media is shifting away from specialized resources like single-game sites and forums. Many people hop on Facebook first thing in the morning, or even check it throughout the day. It just makes sense to meet your customer where they are rather than asking them to come to you. I agree that they do need to support the forums so long as they exist, and some forums are really needed to be here (Employment, Scripting, Classified, et cetera). The level of support will likely not be the same in the heyday pre-social media, but yes right now that support does not seem to be there. It's not that LL needs to support the forums. It's that they need to support their customers. They have a blog system fpr communicating things that customers need to know, as well as this forum. I don't care how other outfits communicate. I only care how LL communicates with their customers - because it includes me. It's gross stupidity to turn away from their customers and only communicate to the outside world. And gross stupidity is precisely what I expect from the people who run LL. In over 5 years I've never seen much else from them.

Arkady Arkright wrote: Sigren Panthar wrote: Well, you could join the Gestapo? THIS ! Why are there so many nosey-parkering busybodies in SL ? Have they nothing better to do than prodnose whenever they find something slightly not to their taste ? That's a bit unfair. There are plenty of people who like to get involved when they find bots around that don't affect them at all. Adult land was created so that people wouldn't accidentally come across adult activities on Mature land. And, believe it or not, there are a many people who prefer not to come across it, which can't be faulted. It's not something that's "slightly not to their taste". It's something that offends many people, just as it would offend them if they came across it in RL. I'm not one of them, incidentally, but I do know that it offends people, that it's against the ToS, that it's the reason why Adult land was created in the first place, and that such things should be ARed out of existance

The first part of your post make it clear that you had entirely missed the point. But then you wrote a paragraph that showed you hadn't missed the point at all, and it made the first part of your post irrelevant. To make it absolutely clear... There is nothing wrong with LL communicating important information via Twitter and such. But there is absolutely something wrong with LL NOT also communicating important information in their own systems, such as this forum and the blog, where the information will reach far more of their users. These places are where they can reach more of their users with important information. They can't reach anywhere near the same number on Twitter and such. Communicating important information externally but not internally is gross stupidity. It's what I expect from the sort of people who run SL.

As someone said earlier, in RL you can just walk on - you don't even need to look at the person. In SL, they are not asking if I want something, as you suggested - they literally give me something, and I am forced to deal with it. Now I know that if they ask first, I would still have to deal with it, but it has hell of a different feel about it. Asking me if I'd like a group invite feels friendly and good but sending the invitation without asking first is spam in my book - whether it's in a store, or a club, or remote fishing. Incidentally, email spam isn't limited to genuine email addresses that the spammer has acquired - not by a very long shot. Email spam goes to untold millions of invented email addresses. All they need is a domain name and they send their spam to every name and combination of characters they can come up with. I have websites - I see the stuff. ETA: Incidentally, a bot can be made to ask the target if s/he would like a group invitation, and only send one if s/he does. But, personally, I prefer a nice big sign to click. Then I could really could walk on, without any need to stop and take some action if it doesn't interest me.

I've been waiting to see the error message again before I add to the jira but I don't rez things all that often. However, it just happened again:- [05:23] Second Life: Can't rez object at { 152.644, 134.012, 255.081 } because the owner of this land does not allow it. Use the land tool to see land ownership. [05:23] Second Life: Can't rez object at { 153.394, 130.847, 255.081 } because the owner of this land does not allow it. Use the land tool to see land ownership. [05:23] Second Life: Can't rez object at { 149.871, 132.249, 255.081 } because the owner of this land does not allow it. Use the land tool to see land ownership. [05:23] Second Life: Can't rez object at { 153.215, 134.596, 255.081 } because the owner of this land does not allow it. Use the land tool to see land ownership. [05:23] Second Life: Can't rez object at { 159.92, 130.923, 255.081 } because the owner of this land does not allow it. Use the land tool to see land ownership. [05:23] Second Life: Can't rez object at { 153.18, 130.614, 253.71 } because the owner of this land does not allow it. Use the land tool to see land ownership. I was trying to rez a bed inside my store, which is ~250m in the air. Each of those failures shows the Y co-ordinates well outside the north edge of my land, which ends at 128m, and yet I was pointing at the floor inside the store - a few meters south of those Y co-ordinates (~124m). Now I'm off to add to the jira.

From my experience of going to clubs with live eneteratinment, it's the entertainer's group that sends the spam invites, and it's done by a person who is too lazy to first ask if you'd like to join the group. The fact that I'm there (presumably) enjoying the entertainment is in no way indicative of my desire to 'sign up' to the person. I consider it spam. It may or may not be considered ok in general, because it's on the land of someone who is employing the entertainer, but to my way of thinking it's unsolicited and it's spam - and it annoys me. The time it takes to say no is irrelevant. It takes next to no time at all to delete spam emails but they are still spam, and a blight.

The idea of offering group invitations to people in stores, without asking first and however much time is given for them to acclimate, is spam, imo. It might be acceptable if the invites were sent to actual customers - those who actually buy something - but going to a store is no indication at all that the person is in any way interested in becoming (almost) part of it, which joining a group is. I.e. a visitor may look round, decide there's nothing they want from there, and leave. An auto-invitation in such circumstances is, imo, unsolicted and, therefore, spam.

Personally, I don't differenciate between so-called 'expected' group invites, in clubs for instance, and those that arrive when I'm nowhere near anything. I view them both spam. In clubs, the 'workers' do have the opportunity to ask if I want to join a group before sending an invite. If they did that, it wouldn't be spam. Stores that don't have workers there at the time just need to put a sign up - 'click here to join the store's group'.

Luc Starsider wrote: Ah, right! I didn't read your post too well. So, this is the 'Don't worry. We're building more' part of the message. Two weeks is a long time to let customers wait. Perhaps the Moles are on strike? Everybody has been let go, and there's no one left to start the auto rezzer? @Peter. You might very well be right. I don't blame LL for trying to get more customers, and I hope they manage. I'm not sure I think the customer they're after is the 'right' type... Also, contrary to what I have a feeling LL thinks, trying to attract new customers does not mean you have to abandon and forget the existing customers. - Luc - I completely agree with that. Posting necessary information on Twitter is fine but it should always also be posted where the users are - here or in the blog. Posting necessary information exclusively on Twitter is a really idiotic thing to do, and it reveals something (really negative) about the person who decided to do it that way - Rodvik, wasn't it?

lol, Marigold. It wasn't me, of course, but it's good to know that I've not been the only Ruth with a beard

Just lucky lol

The screenshot says, "You can also follow @SecondLife on Twitter for updates." How idiotic is that?

Thank you, Marigold. I've read the jira you linked to and it's happening to a number of people. What I didn't think to notice when it happens, and the jira mentioned it a number of times, was the precise location where there message tells me the object tried to rez. It sounds like the system thinks it's trying to rez on another parcel. I'll take note from now on.

It seems like it's a server bug then. And where's your picture? I want it back

I'm using LL's current V3 and it sometimes prevents me from rezzing objects on my own (group) land, telling me that the land-owner doesn't allow it. It's wrong, of course. The objects are my own creations and I naturally have full perms. When it happens, it seems like there's a spot where I simply can't rez anything for that (wrong) reason. If I do it a few meters away, it rezzes fine. Another time, I don't have a problem in the same spot. It's not just one sport. It can happen anywhere on my land. Has anyone else come across this oddity?

I never realised that Ruth was quite so pretty As far as I know, it's been years since I was Ruthed. I saw myself fine but others saw me with boobs - and a beard!

You're right - I won't turn it into a scripting discussion. I'll just say... Good idea about centralising the 'book-keeping'. Some of it is already centralised (CHANGED_LINK, for instance), but some significant chunks of it could also be centralised - adjustment stuff, for instance. And what you mentioned in your last paragraph is also right - it would be overkill for my use of the system.

Qie Niangao wrote: Speaking of lag, I want to echo Phil's question, re: MLPV2 supposedly being script-heavy. It contains a lot of scripts, that's true, but they're pretty efficient. I've monitored some sim statistics in my time, and I've never seen a product based on MLP contributing much to script load. (I wish I could say the same for another "sitter" product that I won't name here.) That said, the nPose approach has a slight advantage over MLP in that it doesn't use rezzed poseballs; it still uses a separate script for each sitter in order to be able to keep animating them, but those scripts can be simpler, not needing to rez poseballs and communicate where they should go. There was a thread here recently about animation systems that don't use poseballs. It piqued my interest so I wrote one, and it's in some of my beds now. Nobody mentioned that nPose doesn't use poseballs or, if it's a free system, I could have saved the time However, it did give me something interesting to do, and still does, so it's been well worth doing. My system also uses a script for each possible user but each of those scripts uses 12.3k of memory so they're not exactly super-lightweight in terms of memory usage, but they aren't very active so they're not laggy. I've no idea how 12.3k compares to other systems. What such systems don't do, of course, is perpetually listen like poseball systems do, so they gain a bit in that respect.