Yoki Enoch

This selection of avatars gives the impression that Second Life is a place for children under the age of 8.

Lastarls Ireto wrote: Yoki Enoch wrote: Basic mode was the brain child of someone at Linden Lab who was under the assumption that Viewer use in SL was too complicated for many new comers. Somehow, they sold the idea to the "power that be" at LL that was responsible for such things, and thus the basic viewer was born. I don't know who came up with it, but if you read back a number of months, there was a pretty long thread that suggested this idea. I think it even suggested 3 modes (one was optimized for building if I remember right). It was a pretty well-accepted idea. It's actually quite a good idea, just not well implemented. Yes, it is too simple, there isn't enough there. Several very important things were left out, as mentioned above. But the basic idea is good. I have been a V1 viewer user because I haven't liked the newer viewers, but with the mesh rollout I decided I needed to step up and get used to the new V3 viewer. I'm getting used to it, it's not horrible, but things are still a little hard to do. The first time I tried to get in and change my shape, it took me a good 15 minutes to figure out how. Some of the inventory controls are wonky (right-clicking on a landmark will give you different options depending on which view you used to get to it). Some of my settings don't save when the client gets updated. And on and on and on... It will get better, I'm sure. Eventually. Rather than just whining about it, let LL know what's wrong, give them a chance to improve things (something I'm still guilty of). If there was any problem newbies were having, it would be with the user interface with Viewer 2. Dumbing down the Viewer to make it essentially useless, was a terrible idea. I do hope that such an idea was not suggested by a resident of SL. It would be hard to believe that any resident in SL would be that dumb, but then again, the people here always surprise me. I have started using Firestorm and find that it is intuitive, easy to use, and is actually a great viewer. I tried Viewer 2 three times last year and found it to be terrible, each and every time. Why is it that TPVs can be made correctly but Linden Lab can not make a half decent viewer? After doing some independent research on viewer use, it appears that only about 25% of SL residents use Viewer 2/3, and the rest mostly use either Phoenix, Firestorm or Viewer 1. Hello Linden Lab!

Basic mode was the brain child of someone at Linden Lab who was under the assumption that Viewer use in SL was too complicated for many new comers. Somehow, they sold the idea to the "power that be" at LL that was responsible for such things, and thus the basic viewer was born. Basic viewer became a basic bore for most new comers, and it did nothing to improve retention rates, and probably made them sink even more. Even though the Lab has received masses of complaints about the basic viewer, it will not budge on this issue, because this is Linden Lab we are talking about. It knows best, and the customers are just a bunch of whiny poops who need not be listened to.

Canoro Philipp wrote: Linden Lab dont take all the features from third party viewers, some are too controversial, like Restrained Life, they are selective to what features they want to add to the official viewer and when they do, evolve them at the lab before presenting them to us, I can think of regional windlight settings, body physics, multiple attachments. the lab have been working with third party viewers to get the new search working for them, and search of marketplace items, maybe you will see those features in third party viewers, maybe some TPV have them already working. why the official viewer is not as enhanced as the third party viewers? because thats what third party viewers developers do, they take the official viewer and add their features to it. I wasn't thinking in particular of specific features, but rather good user interface that is intuitive as well as logical and rational. I tried V2 three times last year and gave up in utter frustration, each and every time. So I stuck with V1. However, recently I started using Firestorm. It fit like a glove, and I will probably stick with this Viewer. Due to my past experience with V2, I would never look at it again.

Canoro Philipp wrote: they do, some TPV developers send patches to the official viewer, contribute in Jiras, and Linden Lab work with them to backport features. Rodvik Linden said that he checks third party viewers, and he ask permission to the third party viewer developers to implement the features LL likes in the official viewer. If that is the case, and I have no reason to doubt that it is, why are the Linden produced viewers still so poor? Even some newbies, when they are exposed to TPVs, are wondering why the official Linden viewer is so bad.

I hear tell the Lab is hiring Ukranian programmers to fix the problems they caused in the first place.

Deej Kasshiki wrote: Holy hell what's with the people who take it so personally when anyone says v2 ain't all rainbows and ponies and lollipops? You think it's perfecto, swell. Use it and enjoy. Why is it so hard to accept that a major portion of the userbase (over half) prefers something else and isn't cowed into keeping quiet about it? No need to come into these threads spewing hate by telling residents to GTFO, build their own software and all that other nonsense. It would be one thing if someone was deliberately spreading patently false information and you wanted to "set the record straight" but, this is someone's opinion and as such just as valid as yours (especially when they can provide legitimate examples as to what they see as flaws in design). Did you guys forget that Philip, Esbee, Q and now Rodvik Linden all basically apologized for the lack of resident input during v2 development and the major flaws that occurred as a result? Or are they just "haters" too? You guys want tolerance and choice? How about practicing what you preach? This is what I do not understand. If LL has apologized for not getting resident input for the development of V2, why is it that LL seems still be ignoring resident input continually as a standard in this area? The developers of the TPVs seem to thrive on user input and develop their viewers accordingly, whereas LL gives the appearance to regarding SL residents as being not even worthy of contempt.

I think Viewer 2 is a great tool for finding out who the true noobs are. They are the ones who use it. The false noobs use anything other than Viewer 2. That is about the only good thing about Viewer 2 though. Ya gotta keep your eye on the false noobs ya know, and the Lab makes it possible.:smileytongue:

Greene Paine wrote: Seriously, I don't get it. Could someone maybe explain in clear terms exactly what it is about v1 they like so much? I realize v2 has a sidebar ... v1 doesn't. Umm .... v1 has a pie chart clicky thing, v2 uses a menu. ... .... v1 has more .... blue? I mean I understand all the cool things TPV like Firestorm add (named crosshairs, chat radius, zoom to avatar, etc...) but what is so intangible about a v1 like Pheonix that it can't be ported to Firestorm?? In other words ... how much would you need to change a v1 viewer before it lost its v1ness, likewise how much would you need to add to a v2 to gain v1ness? Also a note to Lindens ... why don't you open your eyes and actively absorb the innovation of the TPVs into the main viewer? Seriously guys. How long would it take to add a freekin' chat range circle on the minimap?? If I'm not completely bonkers, I seem to remember that the purpose of TPV in the first place was to allow for rapid improvement in the SL viewer by allowing the open source community to improve it. So yeah .... were improving it ... now freekin' add it already. >.< First, don't expect the Lindens to act using basic logic and common sense. Second, there is nothing really amazing about V1, except that its user interface is intuitive and simple to use. Third, there is nothing really amazing about V2 either, except that its user interface is a piece of crap.

Qwalyphi Korpov wrote: /me is listening for the end of Viewer 1. Wasn't this the day? (it's really getting late to set up a forum for it now I spose) Today is a good day to die.

Arethell wrote: I have the exact same problem .... I can't remember which version it was but it happened after you were able to zoom into objects/avatars before you could only zoom in to a specific distance sometimes you can't zoom in sometimes you can... it is HIGHLY annoying I hope someone is working on that It will be worked on, when LL's programmers get around to it. No problem man, just take another toke and watch the sunset over the Frisco Bay.

Ry0ta Exonar wrote: Yoki Enoch wrote: If I ever had any trouble with a merchant, I would use the review process to get back at them, and believe me, I did get back at them.It is a gift I have. (chuckles devilishly) On xstreet SL merchant received a notification e-mail everytime a review was posted on thier items, so that was effective to make them get back to you, but on the marketplace such e-mail isn't sent to merchants anymore, so they don't even know someone made a review on their product. Oh sorry, I did not know the email to merchant feature was removed when LL took over. Too bad about that. I wonder why such a good feature was removed? Anyway, my experience with SL merchants has been 99% positive, and rarely did I have to resort to writing a poor review. In fact, I came across really only one SL merchant who had worse customer service than LL, and that means the ultimate of being bad.

Linda Brynner wrote: Since when does any merchant know anything about service here in SL (ahem) other than some robo like type contact they can think of. Like, contact the merchant... et cetera. You, me perhaps, but almost nobody else (my experience since 2006). Hardly any merchant every replies, or if they do it is often robo like reply they can RP somehow but in the end will do zip. Very very frustrating. There could be a simple automated process to handle it. Even automatic take down the merchant and ban her/him at no compliances. Quite simple, and it would distinguish amateurs from real pros. In my experience, most times it is a matter for the merchant to reset their little magic box - I was a merchant for a time too, as well as a steady customer on MP. If I ever had any trouble with a merchant, I would use the review process to get back at them, and believe me, I did get back at them.It is a gift I have. (chuckles devilishly)

You can start by looking here: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/products/search?search%5Blayout%5D=gallery&search%5Bcategory_id%5D=109&search%5Bsort%5D=price_asc&search%5Bper_page%5D=12&search%5Bkeywords%5D=office&search%5Bprice_low%5D=&search%5Bprice_high%5D=&search%5Bprim_count_low%5D=&search%5Bprim_count_high%5D=&search%5Bcopy_permission%5D=0&search%5Bmodify_permission%5D=0&search%5Btransfer_permission%5D=0

Jimmy51 Lemon wrote: I believe Linden Labs should charge double the listed price of an item for it to be placed for sale on Market Place and we should get double our money back for items not being delivered. Maybe it would end the frustration of waiting and waiting. If you contact only LL for non-delivery of goods, that is what you will do... wait, and wait, and wait. If something is not delivered immediately via the Marketplace, then contact the merchant. They, for the most part, handle their customers well. LL knows nothing about customer service - not a judgment, just a fact.

@Shockwave: I have it on good authority that the Homesteads are still being ganged up at 4 to the core. So, their claim that it needed to be 3 to the core is not really the truth at all. I believe that when the restriction of having only 20 agents at once on the Homesteads solved the problem of "abuse.' So LL got a little windfall out of the deal, except that now, no one in their right mind would buy one at a tier rate of $125 per month thinking they can make any profit on the thing. At those rates, they are good only for individual sales without having a full prim sim in order to qualify. So LL did shoot itself in the foot and is still holding the gun there and firing away. The only ones buying Homesteads now are the land barons who are part of the Atlas program and still only have to pay $95 per month tier. Even the land barons are having a hard time nowadays, as I continually observe how the overall leasing out of sims is doing - tis not a good time to be land baroning in SL, I assure you. LOL!

@Dekka: It is a matter as to how many full prim estate sims LL sells now in any given year. It does not sell very many fresh ones to new customers. It is from tier payments that LL makes its topline 75 million per year. Reducing or eliminating altogether the set-up charges would be an incentive for new comers to acquire an estate sim, rather than leasing them from the land barons. I somehow get the impression that LL does not want to upset the land barons, and this is what is holding them back. Already, LL cowtows to the barons with such huge discounts in the Atlas Program - discounts on set-up charges AND tier. However, perhaps the fear is justified since the top group of land barons owns 20% of the estate sims, and are quite well organized. Anshe Chung and her empire receives huge favours and benefits from LL. I keep track of these things. LOL!

Conifer Dada wrote: I'm now using Viewer 3 beta, There is now a Viewer 3 in beta? Gee, how did that one slip by me?

@Marielle: I would rather shop in a cold and boring environment with an adequate search function, than in a place that potentially gives a shopping experience, but wherein you can not find what you want because there is no search function. But that is just me.

How to Stimulate the SL Economy without Lowering Tiers: Three estate land pricing policy changes can be made immediately, that would stimulate the land buying economy without tiers being lowered. (1) Allow Homesteads to be bought by anyone WITHOUT them having to own a full prim sim - monthly tier would remain at $125.00, if they do not own a full prim sim. (2) If one does own a full prim sim, then the monthly tier for any Homesteads they also owned would be lowered to $95.00 per month - which is not really a lowering of tier since those belonging to the Atlas program own Homesteads at these rates, and Atlas program members are about the only ones buying Homesteads these days. (3) Reduce set-up charges for all estates sims to just the price of one monthly tier payment. Therefore, the set-up charge for a full prim estate sim would be $295.00, and the set-up charge for a Homestead would be either $125.00 or $95.00, depending on whether the purchaser does or does not own a full prim sim. All of the above policies would be incentives that would stimulate the SL land economy, without lowering tiers in any way. Everyone would be a winner (except for a few disgruntled land barons who are members of the Atlas program.)

Gadget Portal wrote: I used to see lots of posts complaining about bots on the mainland that would buy parcels the instant they were set for sale. I'm trying to get rid of a parcel now, and I keep lowering the price on the thing (1296 for 1k L$ currently, and falling) and I'm wondering how low I have to go before one of these famed bots comes and takes this thing from me. Any ideas? Yes, I do have an idea. Bots are like rats, and who are the first to abandon a sinking ship?

@LillyBeth: You wrote this: "The lack of interest to me says people don't believe what is written or they no longer care." People no longer care, because LL has never, ever, ever, shown any signs of even listening. It matters little on who is running the joint. LL will do what it does, and continue to do it poorly, and all we can do is either sit back and watch the train wreck, or leave.

@Shockwave: Please don't try and confuse the Lindens with logic and common sense, some of them might actually be reading the responses here; but I doubt it.

ralph Alderton wrote: Chelsea, what you should ask yourself is : If we have 16000 sign ups a day, where are they all ? How come concurrency figures have been the same for the last 2 years and slipping ? How come the grid is shrinking ? we lose sims every month If we forget Tier costs as the biggest factor in regards to lack of growth and stagnancy, Number 2 on the list of reason why 16000 people a day log off and never come back, is the fact that SL doesn't look engaging enough and it doesn't look engaging enough because of one thing - JUNK, junk, junk 16000 people a day are interested enough in this virtual world to register, why do they not stay ? It's either because 16000 are too stupid to handle the interface - which they're not - or they see stuff that they don't like Human beings are visual creatures, it's our strongest perception of the world around us. Secondlife just does not look good enough and it is the junk that is driving them away 'Denial ain't just a river in Egypt' Mark Twain Look when I came here in 2007, SL was growing by leaps and bounds, and this trend continued on for another year. Also, when I first came to SL, there were freebies galore, much more than there is now, and most of it was junk. Your thesis is greatly flawed.

ralph Alderton wrote: Perhaps the problem is that very few Lindens actually use Secondlife so they don't know or care what it looks like. They don't think it matters, but it does ! How things LOOK is of primary importance. I guess we could all lease our own Homesteads from one of the Chung sisters, buy and live in a Painter Meriman house, and enjoy the many benefits of SL... yup, all 10 of us.:matte-motes-evil-invert: Sorry but I totally disagree with you. But I do believe it is not so much the junk that people like you dislike, but it really is the high quality freebies that really erk ya.