Anne Cloud

Has anyone else tried pairing Bento mesh attachments with Experience Keys yet? I am having trouble seeing my alt's Bento attachments (they don't show up) and my alt can't see my Bento attachments if they are Experience Enabled. ETA: I also notice that having Experience Keys attach the bento mesh to my avatar changes my hover height.

Is there a public list of which joint positions are used for height calculations?

How is a completely optional addition to the system armature 'harmful'? No existing content will be broken. To attempt to address your points further (sorry if I misconstrue what you're trying to say - there appears to be some sort of language barrier here): A: Content creators can and will produce new mesh heads. Yes, custom animations may be necessary and yes, it's possible they will not transfer from head to head even within a single brand. But that doesn't mean it isn't possible to create that content. B: It is my guess that implementing additional bones within the existing armature would be less feasible, particularly when it comes to preserving existing content. Wings, Hind bones, Tail, additional face bones - all of these are less of a problem because they are additions which don't interfere with the existing bone chains. C: This was covered in a previous user group meeting. The suggestion is to make use of bone offsets. As an aside, relating to points A & C, not all Bento applications are going to require joint offset *animations* and it's entirely possible to play animations which only include rotational data and have them affect your joint-offset mesh. As far as restricting the skeleton to any one universal proportion, we already have that (the system avatar) and we already have no standard when it comes to 'decent' animations because SL doesn't offer inverse kinematics for anything other than the lower limbs and we instead must depend upon rotations and guesses at sizing to do what we can. You can't lay that at the feet of Bento; if anything, Bento gives us some real options when it comes to more efficient limb replacement products... among many many other things. I would rather deal with learning how to make these things work than not have any options at all.

(with that said, as much as I agree it needs to be fixed, i don't think this is a Bento-specific problem)

There's another JIRA related to it here: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/FITMESH-4 but it was resolved a few years ago. I will say that I never noticed the issue had been fixed and testing with the Bento viewer, it appears that if it WAS fixed, it has since regressed.  This was just taken with the current Bento release and as far as I know, the behaviour can also be reproduced on the current official release.

@Vir: The eye mesh contains a single script which 'animates' eyeblinks by cycling through "open"/"half-open/""closed" texture offsets randomly. It otherwise has some functionality to change textures for the eyeball and pupil, but no actual .bvh or .anim are involved.

Yeah, it's inconvenient, or depending on what you're trying to do, simply not an option. The eyes I mentioned in the JIRA are rigged because my wyvern's head geometry is actually rigged to Spine 2, and as such, so must the eyes be.

I was using Avastar 2.0 beta. Adjusting joint positions works the same whether it's for the legacy armature or new Bento bones. The associated suggestions re: snapping SL bones to Avastar control bones as well as checking 'joint positions' on the third tab of the uploader apply.

I've rigged and animated a couple of wing meshes, which I posted a little earlier yesterday. ( http://www.plurk.com/p/ldqgaj ) The animation used is the same between the two, but the joint offsets are somewhat different. I haven't rigged anything more complex with it as of yet, as I need to design and model new content first.

While they have not outright advertised SL as such, they also really haven't done a lot to move public perception away from that. Twitch.tv put a blanket ban on SL this year for example, due to Adult Content, despite the fact that a large portion of the user experience in-world is not of a sexual or graphically violent nature. Add to that the fact that the new armature includes a groin bone and you can infer that prolonging that perception is in the Lab's interests. *shrug* :matte-motes-frown:

It is my impression that joint offsets are still fine. I've uploaded a number of joint offset wing attachments and uploaded matching animations for them; no issue so far. It's when someone moves a bone completely to create a non-contiguous distortion that isn't allowed, or at least that's what I get from the announcement.

I predict the answer will be 'Too many cooks in the kitchen', etc. Which I have no problem with. I am glad we have something to work with, even if I am dismayed that some functionality is hobbled for the moment. the important thing is what direction things go in moving forward. Keep in mind this a beta prior to a release candidate, prior to full blown mainstream release.

Excellent news! Any idea when will we be able to download the new av skeleton? Also, is there any additional documentation as of yet?

What, if any, changes have been made towards reducing the frequency of texture thrashing in the main viewer? There are related issues with content that require large textures, however I notice this problem regardless of whether I am in a texture heavy or texture efficient situation (be it environment, worn or HUDed), OR how large my texture cache is set. My cache is set to 512MB but my video card has 2GB RAM. I most often notice this problem after the viewer has been running for a while or if I've just switched back to the viewer after working in another program (as someone who works full-time creating content in-world, this describes ~85% of my SL experience). I've also noticed that it has been growing markedly worse over the past six months. There was a time prior to that when I could avoid this to some degree by disabling HTML textures, but doing so no longer helps me for some reason. Shouldn't textures cache once unless they are updated by the region? It doesn't make sense to me that they should continually reload, and on a visual level, it's a headache to look at. This, above any speed improvements to initial mesh or texture loading, is a far more noticable issue to me and continues to be a frustration every time I spend more than about fifteen minutes logged in.

Content creators beware. Jai, can you explain why you appear to have unauthorized copies of content which circumvent the permissions system? I noticed you had quite a bunch of this material (including material from Mon Tissu) rezzed in my sandbox. Snapshots available upon request. It goes without saying I've sent the relevant info to the appropriate content creators.

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Vivienne Daguerre wrote: Yes, I agree with Aki. About ten minutes before the hour was up, the Lindens present simply stopped speaking and the agenda had not been completed. They did respond to a request asking if the Lindens were dead, one saying "not quite," and when I emoted poking them with a stick, another emoted twitching, so we know that their connection was live and that they were indeed still present. When the hour was up, one by one they said goodbye and left with no explanation. I feel that this was rude. We are customers, some of us investing a large amount of real money each month into SL (I own two private island estates). We have invested a lot of our time to learn to create mesh and to test mesh on the beta grid. If the issue was people straying from the agenda or whatever, it should have been dealt with. A simple "Let's get back to the agenda and we will answer other questions after if there is time" would have sufficed. We are not a rude or particularly difficult group to deal with. We deserved more courtesy than that. I won't ask for an apology. I would just like for there to be no similar repeat performance in the future. I do feel we are getting closer to mesh release. At the beginning of the meeting, they said that their priority now is merging mesh code with the code of the main viewer and testing for bugs and conflicts in that process. That to me sounds promising. In fairness, I did later find out that Mesh HQ 4 had indeed stealth-crashed, even though the lot of us could still see the sim and people who were sitting on it. With that said, that comprised of Charlar, Nyx and Oskar, and the least that could be done by the remaining Lindens would have been to say the sim was having connection issues and that the remaining agenda items were to be held over until next time. For them to disappear without any reason or explanation was quite disappointing.

Give it a few days - if you don't see anything give Charlar a poke. The discussion areas were shut down in prep for the Lithium forums, so no additions were made during that time. With that said, I would like to know what happened nearer the end of this past meeting, since it was ended with no explanation, with some agenda items left unanswered.